The NJ Offseason Thread

[mfitz804]

23 minutes ago, Daniel said:

You gotta do what you gotta do, and there were plenty of times where Henrique drove me nuts this season, but I'd rather not trade him unless it's a lopsided return.    For a team that needs to score more goals in the worst way, I don't love the idea of parting with someone who's a pretty good bet for around 20 goals a year.  

Yup. He's still part of the solution rather than the problem. If you're trading up, of course you consider it. But if it's a lateral move or less, there's not real point to it. 

[MadDog2020]

You gotta do what you gotta do, and there were plenty of times where Henrique drove me nuts this season, but I'd rather not trade him unless it's a lopsided return.    For a team that needs to score more goals in the worst way, I don't love the idea of parting with someone who's a pretty good bet for around 20 goals a year.  

Agreed. I'd rather not trade Henrique unless it's just too good a deal to pass up (ala Larsson for Hall). The thing about Henrique is if this team can ever get back to the playoffs, he's a guy I'd want around- we know he's got a knack for scoring big goals.

 

 

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[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

6 hours ago, Jersey Sure said:

There has been so much focus on the draft..where we pick, who we should pick, will we win the lottery.  Sometimes it seems that people forget that Ray Shero went out and traded for a #1 overall pick who is really good, needs no learning curve, and you know what you have.

If Ray Shero doesn't get some players in here to give him support while he is still in his prime and has 3 years left on his contract that's just bad.  Because if this team is heading in some direction next year it wouldn't shock me if Hall very quietly asks to be moved.  And that 3 years is really 2 because if he isn't signed going into his final year then what's the point.

We have a #1 overall pick on our roster and everyone seems more interested in this year's pick in what is considered a meh draft.  Get this guy some support.  

This is kind of my train of thought as well. I would like to see us add to what is already in place and get Schneider, Palmieri and Hall more help. We have a lot of draft picks and cap space and expansion draft opportunities so I hope we convert some of that excess draft capital and cap space into adding atleast another good player in a Palmieri style trade and that they also plan on being fairly aggressive in free agency. If we still suck the next couple of years, no way Hall is signing an extension and we are chasing our tail.

[fsu1852]

Maybe they can work a Henrique for Duchene. I know things need to be added to the trade but I wouldn't mind Duchene on the team

[Jersey Sure]

5 hours ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

This is kind of my train of thought as well. I would like to see us add to what is already in place and get Schneider, Palmieri and Hall more help. We have a lot of draft picks and cap space and expansion draft opportunities so I hope we convert some of that excess draft capital and cap space into adding atleast another good player in a Palmieri style trade and that they also plan on being fairly aggressive in free agency. If we still suck the next couple of years, no way Hall is signing an extension and we are chasing our tail.

I think this is part of the these tricky situations when you rebuild.  You sign a UFA and he knows what he is getting into for the most part.  You make a trade for a player like a Palmieri, he's happy to be a top line guy with major minutes and a chance to establish himself.  You trade for a Taylor Hall that's a different situation.  He was an established guy on a team trying to establish itself and was seen as part of the solution.  He gets moved to a team that's back to where his old team was in the re-building process 2-3 years ago.  So when you read that the Devils were using the last 2 months of the season for evaluation purposes, yes that's fine to look at the young guys but veterans can't be too pleased playing in 3 wins in the last 24.

Henrique is an interesting situation.  He only has 2 years left and I would assume if he is viewed as part of things for the future you want him extended after next season.  Maybe they move him if it's the right deal.  Shero likes to trade.

 I think Severson could possibly be moved.  I question how this organization views him, not what we as fans think of him.  His value may never be better.  I know fans view him as a sort of Drew Doughty lite.  But is he going to be that or is he going to be similar to John Moore?  I view Moore as an established NHL D man who really should be a 16-17 minute guy on a good team who can move the puck, has some offensive to his game and is really being asked to do above what his game is here.  I think in Severson's case a lot will depend on if Shero can bring in some back end help via trade.   

[Devilsfan118]

I guess my thought process on Henrique is that I think he really took a step backwards this year in most facets of his game, and I'm starting to wonder if parting ways would be the best thing for both parties.  I've also heard from a couple different places that he's become a little too comfortable (probably all unsubstantiated baseless rumors; take it for what it's worth).

Of course you can't trade him for picks or something - that goes without saying.  But if you can get a talented young PMD (buzzword warning) I think that almost helps the offense more than Henrique does.  The backend, outside of Severson, didn't generate ANYTHING offensively.  And of course, if you can get a more dynamic forward back it's a no-brainer.  

I'm tempted to throw the "Tavares" out there.. again, the odds of it happening are absolutely abysmal within the division, I think we all understand that.  But I think Henrique+ at least gets the Islanders attention.
 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Devilsfan118

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I guess my thought process on Henrique is that I think he really took a step backwards this year in most facets of his game, and I'm starting to wonder if parting ways would be the best thing for both parties.  I've also heard from a couple different places that he's become a little too comfortable (probably all unsubstantiated baseless rumors; take it for what it's worth).

Of course you can't trade him for picks or something - that goes without saying.  But if you can get a talented young PMD (buzzword warning) I think that almost helps the offense more than Henrique does.  The backend, outside of Severson, didn't generate ANYTHING offensively.  And of course, if you can get a more dynamic forward back it's a no-brainer.  

I'm tempted to throw the "Tavares" out there.. again, the odds of it happening are absolutely abysmal within the division, I think we all understand that.  But I think Henrique+ at least gets the Islanders attention.
 

Just from my own observations I would say he has become a little too comfortable as well.  There have been many shifts and even games this year where it looks like he was just mailing it in.  There was that overtime loss in Edmonton where his lackadaisical skate back to the bench helped create the play in OT that Edmonton scored on.

Also doesn't help then to see him clowning it up on social media after a loss like that as well.

[Steadevils]

Is there any talk of changing the college FA system? I don't if I am just becoming more aware of it now as I search the periphery of hockey news to find any sort of hope for filling the Devils roster holes, but it really seems like that system has become the rich getting richer with top college FA's wanting to join competitive teams. Once again not sure if that has always been the case, but it will come in to focus again if the Devils lose out on Kerfoot. 

[Triumph]

44 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

Is there any talk of changing the college FA system? I don't if I am just becoming more aware of it now as I search the periphery of hockey news to find any sort of hope for filling the Devils roster holes, but it really seems like that system has become the rich getting richer with top college FA's wanting to join competitive teams. Once again not sure if that has always been the case, but it will come in to focus again if the Devils lose out on Kerfoot. 

I don't see a way to change it, and I don't see any momentum for doing so.

[Jersey Sure]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

Just from my own observations I would say he has become a little too comfortable as well.  There have been many shifts and even games this year where it looks like he was just mailing it in.  There was that overtime loss in Edmonton where his lackadaisical skate back to the bench helped create the play in OT that Edmonton scored on.

Also doesn't help then to see him clowning it up on social media after a loss like that as well.

Here's something else to consider about Henrique from this season, his linemates.  He had a rookie in Wood and a player who had a bad year playing his off wing for a bit.    

[Jersey Sure]

If anyone is interested, here is the video of Ray Shero's exit day press conference:https://www.nhl.com/devils/video/njd-breakup-day-2017-shero/t-277437418/c-51407003?tcid=tw_video_content_id

[DevsMan84]

21 minutes ago, Jersey Sure said:

Here's something else to consider about Henrique from this season, his linemates.  He had a rookie in Wood and a player who had a bad year playing his off wing for a bit.    

He had Palmieri for the first 30 games or so and also had Hall as his linemate for a few games as well.

Regardless and again it is not his production I am pointing out, but there were many games this season where he played "I don't give a damn" hockey.  If you are blaming his lesser work ethic on his linemates then I believe that is a folly.

[Jersey Sure]

2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

He had Palmieri for the first 30 games or so and also had Hall as his linemate for a few games as well.

Regardless and again it is not his production I am pointing out, but there were many games this season where he played "I don't give a damn" hockey.  If you are blaming his lesser work ethic on his linemates then I believe that is a folly.

No, that post was started and after looking at a few other things and also things from Left Wing Lock I thought I deleted it and didn't post it.  A bit of my own folly as well.   

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Triumph said:

I don't see a way to change it, and I don't see any momentum for doing so.

I imagine that it's in the collective bargaining agreement. 

You would think that there are at least some teams that care enough that would like to change the rule -- how many is hard to say -- and the current players probably don't care about it one way or the other.  If anything, the interests of the members of the NHLPA -- players that are under contract with an NHL team -- are best served by treating rookies, college players, etc. as indentured servants (using that term just for hyperbole).  Just means more money and more options for veterans.  So I guess it's something that could be horse traded at the next CBA negotiation.  However, it's such a minor issue that I doubt it comes to anything, especially if Vesey turns out to be Matt Gilroy.

[NJDfan1711]

11 hours ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

This is kind of my train of thought as well. I would like to see us add to what is already in place and get Schneider, Palmieri and Hall more help. We have a lot of draft picks and cap space and expansion draft opportunities so I hope we convert some of that excess draft capital and cap space into adding atleast another good player in a Palmieri style trade and that they also plan on being fairly aggressive in free agency. If we still suck the next couple of years, no way Hall is signing an extension and we are chasing our tail.

I think the problem with this is that the Palmieri trade was sort of by accident.  In any transaction, every team is looking to make themselves better.  In the Palmieri trade we only gave up a 2nd and a 3rd rounder.  Pretty good, I think we can all agree, but we didn't exactly know at the time what we were getting in him.  I mean the most points he had in a season before joining us was 31, and he hadn't really played close to a full season. It's not so easy to simply acquire players in a trade like this, because the team on the other end is looking for something much the same.  Every once in a while you run into a GM who doesn't seem to know what he's doing and/or you catch a team who is desperate or in a terrible situation and you're able to pull a fleece job on them, but more often than not trades are usually pretty even and a lot of times both teams are taking a small gamble and not knowing if it will work out.

[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

2 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I think the problem with this is that the Palmieri trade was sort of by accident.  In any transaction, every team is looking to make themselves better.  In the Palmieri trade we only gave up a 2nd and a 3rd rounder.  Pretty good, I think we can all agree, but we didn't exactly know at the time what we were getting in him.  I mean the most points he had in a season before joining us was 31, and he hadn't really played close to a full season. It's not so easy to simply acquire players in a trade like this, because the team on the other end is looking for something much the same.  Every once in a while you run into a GM who doesn't seem to know what he's doing and/or you catch a team who is desperate or in a terrible situation and you're able to pull a fleece job on them, but more often than not trades are usually pretty even and a lot of times both teams are taking a small gamble and not knowing if it will work out.

The Palmieri trade does look like a bit of a fleece job, I am not assuming that they are going to get a player that will work out as well as Palmieri has as he has worked out unusually well for what they gave up. Not completely unforeseen though as he was on a very deep team in Anaheim and did not get near the ice time that he has got here since he is playing much higher in the depth chart on the Devils. By Palmieri style trade I mean I think it is likely we will get a decent young roster player for a couple of picks because we have a lot of cap space and 11 draft picks. Every single year there are teams with cap issues such as the Ducks were in 2015 and there should be more opportunities than normal this year because of the expansion draft protection which the Devils are also favorably positioned for.

[lucifer91]

Has anybody seen the rumors that Zacha has failed the physicals for the Czech world team? 

[lucifer91]

 

 

[MadDog2020]

Has anybody seen the rumors that Zacha has failed the physicals for the Czech world team? 

I heard that yesterday, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there about it.


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[Devilsfan118]

Wonder if he failed because he isn't 100% healthy... or he had one too many slices of NJ pizza and didn't make weight or something?
 

[Triumph]

5 hours ago, Daniel said:

I imagine that it's in the collective bargaining agreement. 

You would think that there are at least some teams that care enough that would like to change the rule -- how many is hard to say -- and the current players probably don't care about it one way or the other.  If anything, the interests of the members of the NHLPA -- players that are under contract with an NHL team -- are best served by treating rookies, college players, etc. as indentured servants (using that term just for hyperbole).  Just means more money and more options for veterans.  So I guess it's something that could be horse traded at the next CBA negotiation.  However, it's such a minor issue that I doubt it comes to anything, especially if Vesey turns out to be Matt Gilroy.

The problem with changing the rule is that there isn't an obvious alternative.  Do you put 22 year old players back in the draft?  That seems fraught - what if they get drafted by someone they don't want to play for?  Now you're holding a guy out for another 2 years?  And you can't have teams holding on a players' rights indefinitely - what if they don't want that player?  There's always guys who go through 4 years of college only to be unsigned by their drafting team - should they be denied the ability to sign with other teams?

And the thing is that in general it's just not a big deal.  If I'm running an NHL team, I'm not sure I sign Alex Kerfoot to an NHL contract coming off his junior year.  Good collegiate players generally come out of college in 1-3 years.  They are generally giving up money by not doing so.  Vesey was willing to give up some money to sign where he did and good for him.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Triumph

[sundstrom]

8 minutes ago, Triumph said:

The problem with changing the rule is that there isn't an obvious alternative.  Do you put 22 year old players back in the draft?  That seems fraught - what if they get drafted by someone they don't want to play for?  Now you're holding a guy out for another 2 years?  And you can't have teams holding on a players' rights indefinitely - what if they don't want that player?  There's always guys who go through 4 years of college only to be unsigned by their drafting team - should they be denied the ability to sign with other teams?

And the thing is that in general it's just not a big deal.  If I'm running an NHL team, I'm not sure I sign Alex Kerfoot to an NHL contract coming off his junior year.  Good collegiate players generally come out of college in 1-3 years.  They are generally giving up money by not doing so.  Vesey was willing to give up some money to sign where he did and good for him.

i think Tri hit it on the head - very few good players will stay 4 years in college so they don't have to sign with their drafting team if that team wants them.

If someone's a late bloomer, and they make it to UFA after 4 years of college - well, it happens. But it's just not that big a deal.

And it's not just college guys - Blandisi was drafted by Colorado and ended up not signing and he didn't go to college.

 

here's the point - i don't think the Devils have to worry that Joey Anderson is going to say, "i don't want any part of NJ, I'll stay at UMD for another 3 years even though they want me and I could very well be in the NHL next year."

Edited April 14, 2017 by sundstrom

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, Triumph said:

The problem with changing the rule is that there isn't an obvious alternative.  Do you put 22 year old players back in the draft?  That seems fraught - what if they get drafted by someone they don't want to play for?  Now you're holding a guy out for another 2 years?  And you can't have teams holding on a players' rights indefinitely - what if they don't want that player?  There's always guys who go through 4 years of college only to be unsigned by their drafting team - should they be denied the ability to sign with other teams?

And the thing is that in general it's just not a big deal.  If I'm running an NHL team, I'm not sure I sign Alex Kerfoot to an NHL contract coming off his junior year.  Good collegiate players generally come out of college in 1-3 years.  They are generally giving up money by not doing so.  Vesey was willing to give up some money to sign where he did and good for him.

Doesn't the NBA have a rule that a team has a draft pick's rights indefinitely, or did it at one point?  Sounds a little harsh, but in reality I don't really think it is.  In all instances a draft pick who doesn't want to play for the team that drafted him can force a trade.  It benefits both sides, since the team can get better compensation than what they currently get.

But otherwise, you're right that it happens so rarely and even less so with players that are all that good that it's probably not worth starting a food fight over.

[Daniel]

Any way that the Jets would trade Trouba for Henrique?  Is Trouba overrated like Phaneuf?  

Seems like the Jets need to trade one of Trouba or Tyler Myers, and Henrique is a good return for someone you might end up losing anyway.  

Other thing about trading for Trouba is that it makes signing Shattenkirk a moot point, unless you're trading one of Santini or Severson.  Maybe that's a good thing though in that you're getting a much younger player who will be a lot less expensive.  

[Marshall]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

Any way that the Jets would trade Trouba for Henrique?  Is Trouba overrated like Phaneuf?  

Seems like the Jets need to trade one of Trouba or Tyler Myers, and Henrique is a good return for someone you might end up losing anyway.  

Other thing about trading for Trouba is that it makes signing Shattenkirk a moot point, unless you're trading one of Santini or Severson.  Maybe that's a good thing though in that you're getting a much younger player who will be a lot less expensive.  

If they end up trading him or wanting to trade him, it'll take a lot more. He's a legit first pairing guy (so not like Phaneuf).