In Russia NHL returns you. Kovalchuk staying in KHL.

[Triumph]

A 35+ contract is better for Kovalchuk as it can contain performance bonuses.  Dude's not likely to get a long-term deal in the NHL as it is.

[NJDfan1711]

2 hours ago, Triumph said:

A 35+ contract is better for Kovalchuk as it can contain performance bonuses.  Dude's not likely to get a long-term deal in the NHL as it is.

I thought all contracts could contain bonuses?  Pretty sure someone (a young, well known star, I can't remember the name) was traded earlier this year at the deadline because he was going to be owed bonuses.

[Devils731]

13 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I thought all contracts could contain bonuses?  Pretty sure someone (a young, well known star, I can't remember the name) was traded earlier this year at the deadline because he was going to be owed bonuses.

ELC and 35+ can contain bonuses. It's so the superstar young guys don't get totally screwed for 3 years of ELC and so teams can hedge their bets on the older players. 

[NJDfan1711]

3 minutes ago, Devils731 said:

ELC and 35+ can contain bonuses. It's so the superstar young guys don't get totally screwed for 3 years of ELC and so teams can hedge their bets on the older players. 

Gotcha, I thought they all good for some reason, but the player I was thinking of must have been a young guy still on an ELC like you mentioned. Thanks for the info.

[thecoffeecake]

On 05/02/2017 at 6:02 PM, Triumph said:

Someone mentioned this somewhere else but I think the best thing would be a trade with a conditional pick.  Devils get a 2018 2nd if that team misses the playoffs, they get a 3rd if Kovalchuk is traded, and they get a 1st if that team makes the playoffs and Kovalchuk plays 40+ games (otherwise they just get a 2nd).

So absolute best case scenario is a 15th overall pick? No thanks. The much smarter gamble is keeping him through to the trade deadline.

[Triumph]

42 minutes ago, thecoffeecake said:

So absolute best case scenario is a 15th overall pick? No thanks. The much smarter gamble is keeping him through to the trade deadline.

Yeah, good luck on threading this needle of 

A: Kovalchuk wanting to sign here and play here

B:  Kovalchuk being good

C:  Team being bad

D:  Kovalchuk not having an NTC-NMC

You're right, that's a much smarter gamble.

[thecoffeecake]

41 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Yeah, good luck on threading this needle of 

A: Kovalchuk wanting to sign here and play here

B:  Kovalchuk being good

C:  Team being bad

D:  Kovalchuk not having an NTC-NMC

You're right, that's a much smarter gamble.

He doesn't have to want to play here. He does it Shero's way or stays in Russia.

Shero isn't going to piss away a potentially huge asset for next to nothing.

Yea, the smart money is on Kovalchuk still being a special offensive talent. Even if he came over and put up 40 points, he's worth a 2nd.

[Since1982-83]

6 minutes ago, thecoffeecake said:

He doesn't have to want to play here. He does it Shero's way or stays in Russia.

Shero isn't going to piss away a potentially huge asset for next to nothing.

Yea, the smart money is on Kovalchuk still being a special offensive talent. Even if he came over and put up 40 points, he's worth a 2nd.

I think it would serve Shero best to attempt to talk Kovy into returning to NJ. With Kovy back, Hall up front, Shattenkirk possibly coming aboard, and a more than solid center in Nolan Patrick, we're starting to cook with some gas and suddenly the possibilities start to come into focus.

[Antiquated Colorado Rockie]

I believe he is bluffing and will sign back with the KHL for atleast next season if not beyond.

[Triumph]

52 minutes ago, thecoffeecake said:

He doesn't have to want to play here. He does it Shero's way or stays in Russia.

Shero isn't going to piss away a potentially huge asset for next to nothing.

Yea, the smart money is on Kovalchuk still being a special offensive talent. Even if he came over and put up 40 points, he's worth a 2nd.

How much do you think 34 year old rental wingers get?  Calgary got very little for Jarome Iginla when they dealt him and he only was a year older and Jarome f-ing Iginla.  He had an NTC and used it.  This idea that the Devils can just sign Kovalchuk to whatever and he'll just contentedly stay here waiting for his deadline deal - it's just not very realistic.

[thecoffeecake]

5 hours ago, Triumph said:

How much do you think 34 year old rental wingers get?  Calgary got very little for Jarome Iginla when they dealt him and he only was a year older and Jarome f-ing Iginla.  He had an NTC and used it.  This idea that the Devils can just sign Kovalchuk to whatever and he'll just contentedly stay here waiting for his deadline deal - it's just not very realistic.

Iginla was on a definite decline when he left Calgary, even if comparing him to Kovalchuk meant anything.  Nothing suggests Kovalchuk isn't still one of the most explosive and gifted offensive talents in hockey. To assume his value is that of a guy like Iginla,  that's absolutely baseless. Kovalchuk is very likely still a game changer at this level.

This idea that Kovalchuk gets to dictate exactly how this plays out is far less realistic than him signing with the team with whom his rights are still held. Once under contract, what options are you suggesting he has? He plays here until Shero decides to move him, or he stays in Russia. Very, very simple.

[njd3b1ink]

This may have been mentioned already but I didn't feel like going back through this thread to see if it was already said. If anyone is interested Hockey Central at Noon had Ray Shero on the other day and it was a good listen. He talks briefly about Kovalchuk and basically just says he's going to reach out to Kovalchuk and his agent this week. There's also a few good quotes in there about the draft. They talk about the Devils head scout, and Jeff Marek says he's hearing the Devils are leaning towards Hischier.

 

if anyone is interested in listening you can find it on the podcast app on iPhones. Just search Hockey Central @ Noon and it's the episode from May 1st

Edited May 5, 2017 by njd3b1ink

[Steadevils]

hall-Zajac-Kovy

Zacha-Henrique-Palms

Quinneville-Patrik-Blandisi (boys are back in town line)

Wood-Speers-bennett

 

i don't think that would be all that good, but it would be fun. 

[Devilsfan118]

One other thing to consider here is that we're going to potentially have a pretty young locker room next year.. or so I hope.

Shero had best confirm we're getting the Jacques Lemaire Kovalchuk, the one who bought into the system and did what he had to do for the team, and not the John MacLean version, the one that skipped team meetings and pretty much did as he pleased both on and off the ice.

The last thing we need is a cancer in the locker room around the kids.

[NJDfan1711]

26 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

hall-Zajac-Kovy

Zacha-Henrique-Palms

Quinneville-Patrik-Blandisi (boys are back in town line)

Wood-Speers-bennett

 

i don't think that would be all that good, but it would be fun. 

I was literally just going to do the same thing and post a mock lineup with both Kovy and Patrick in it lol.  I actually like those combinations a TON.  Bennet is much better on the 4th line if you ask me, and he has other suitable pairings in Speers and Wood.  I also love putting youth together and guy who have had previous chemistry (i.e. Quennville/Blandisi/Patrick).  

Sign Shattenkirk to bolster our blue line and suddenly our bleak roster is looking full and pretty talented.  

Also, this isn't even considering McCleod, who could (and I hope) actually makes the roster this year too.

[Triumph]

8 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

Iginla was on a definite decline when he left Calgary, even if comparing him to Kovalchuk meant anything.  Nothing suggests Kovalchuk isn't still one of the most explosive and gifted offensive talents in hockey. To assume his value is that of a guy like Iginla,  that's absolutely baseless. Kovalchuk is very likely still a game changer at this level.

This idea that Kovalchuk gets to dictate exactly how this plays out is far less realistic than him signing with the team with whom his rights are still held. Once under contract, what options are you suggesting he has? He plays here until Shero decides to move him, or he stays in Russia. Very, very simple.

Haha, the amount of delusion about Kovalchuk among Devils fans is very real.  He's put up one great KHL season.  Radulov has way outscored him in the KHL and he has been on generally worse offensive teams.  Now that great KHL season was this past season so I guess that's a good sign, but even with 4 seasons in the KHL and a lot of playoffless seasons here he has played a ton of hockey.  He is 34.  Almost every player is worse at 34 than they were in their prime; most are considerably worse. 

Kovalchuk gets to dictate how this plays out or else he doesn't sign, it's that simple.  He goes back to Russia and waits a year if he doesn't like the terms he's being offered.

[Chuck the Duck]

8 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Haha, the amount of delusion about Kovalchuk among Devils fans is very real.  He's put up one great KHL season.  Radulov has way outscored him in the KHL and he has been on generally worse offensive teams.  Now that great KHL season was this past season so I guess that's a good sign, but even with 4 seasons in the KHL and a lot of playoffless seasons here he has played a ton of hockey.  He is 34.  Almost every player is worse at 34 than they were in their prime; most are considerably worse. 

Kovalchuk gets to dictate how this plays out or else he doesn't sign, it's that simple.  He goes back to Russia and waits a year if he doesn't like the terms he's being offered.

It works both ways.  Kovy doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to go, and the Devils don't have to bring him back in the first place if he attempts to limit their ability to trade him to teams they don' want to move him to.  He obviously doesn't want to go back and play another year in Russia if he legitimately is trying to get back in the NHL.  Like Congress, both sides need to work together and come to a compromise to make it work.  However, like Congress, there is a high probability of dysfunction in the system with both sides getting entrenched in their position, which will lead to an impasse that has Kovy returning to Russia for 1 more season.

At the end of the day, if Kovy said to the Devils, I will only go to the Rags, then I would tell him to enjoy the Borst in St. Petersburg for the next year as he can go F himself.  He's not going to dictate how this goes.  However, if he gives a list of teams, I would work out the best deal I could and possibly package other assets to make him part of a larger deal.  He is a free asset, and it would be stupid not to get what we can for him.    

[Daniel]

6 minutes ago, Chuck the Duck said:

 He is a free asset, and it would be stupid not to get what we can for him.    

With the caveat that it has to be a return worth getting.  A second round pick -- presumably from a good team -- likely doesn't get it done, unless the idea is that you want to control where he goes, i.e. you may just take a low return from a team like San Jose (just as an example) now so you don't run the risk of him playing for the Rangers next year.

[Triumph]

Chuck:  Yeah, of course, obviously Shero won't send him to the Rangers unless he gets a huge return, but unless Kovalchuk really misses the NHL, it'll be hard to strong arm him into taking any deal he doesn't want.

I don't care if Kovalchuk plays for the Rangers in 2018-19.  Neither should Shero.

[Satans Hockey]

I know it's the off season but I just can't get interested in this topic. Loved the guy when he was here, was disappointed when he left and simply don't care what happens next when it comes to him. 

[Derlique]

Someone floated the idea somewhere that NJ gets to choose a Minnesota dman and trade Kovy for that dman since a deal cant be made until July 1st

[aylbert]

15 hours ago, Triumph said:

How much do you think 34 year old rental wingers get?  Calgary got very little for Jarome Iginla when they dealt him and he only was a year older and Jarome f-ing Iginla.  He had an NTC and used it.  This idea that the Devils can just sign Kovalchuk to whatever and he'll just contentedly stay here waiting for his deadline deal - it's just not very realistic.

A 43yo Jagr got a 2nd and 3rd in February; with 29pts in 57 games... as a UFA.   Lee Stempniak got a 2nd and a 3rd as well.

I think you could trade Kovy for at least a 2nd as the floor...  likely 2nd and a prospect, etc.   I'd still press him to stay the season to at least the deadline to see what he can do for us in the "New York" area...   before we trade him to a tax-free Florida team? 

[thecoffeecake]

1 hour ago, Triumph said:

Haha, the amount of delusion about Kovalchuk among Devils fans is very real.  He's put up one great KHL season.  Radulov has way outscored him in the KHL and he has been on generally worse offensive teams.  Now that great KHL season was this past season so I guess that's a good sign, but even with 4 seasons in the KHL and a lot of playoffless seasons here he has played a ton of hockey.  He is 34.  Almost every player is worse at 34 than they were in their prime; most are considerably worse. 

Kovalchuk gets to dictate how this plays out or else he doesn't sign, it's that simple.  He goes back to Russia and waits a year if he doesn't like the terms he's being offered.

I'm sorry, what exactly does Radulov have to do with Kovalchuk? Look at Kovy's numbers during his last seasons here and those first two seasons he jumped  back and forth to the KHL. His production was virtually the same in both leagues. How does the fact that he just had his best KHL season, a league where he  spent the end of his prime, not indicate to you that his skills haven't dramatically dropped off? Better yet, instead of wikipediaing his and Radulov's numbers, why don't you turn on 1WorldSports and find a rerun of a CSA game from this season, and then tell me that his raw talent still isn't elite.

Kovalchuk dictates nothing. Like you said, who cares if he goes to the Rangers in 2018? He does things Shero's way or goes back to Russia. Simple.

The bidding war for him is going to be very real, and the idea of giving away an asset like that for a second round pick right at the start is absolute nonsense.

[Triumph]

11 minutes ago, thecoffeecake said:

I'm sorry, what exactly does Radulov have to do with Kovalchuk? Look at Kovy's numbers during his last seasons here and those first two seasons he jumped  back and forth to the KHL. His production was virtually the same in both leagues. How does the fact that he just had his best KHL season, a league where he  spent the end of his prime, not indicate to you that his skills haven't dramatically dropped off? Better yet, instead of wikipediaing his and Radulov's numbers, why don't you turn on 1WorldSports and find a rerun of a CSA game from this season, and then tell me that his raw talent still isn't elite.

Kovalchuk dictates nothing. Like you said, who cares if he goes to the Rangers in 2018? He does things Shero's way or goes back to Russia. Simple.

The bidding war for him is going to be very real, and the idea of giving away an asset like that for a second round pick right at the start is absolute nonsense.

The KHL is a way worse league than the NHL.  It is on par with the AHL, and when you consider the fact that Kovalchuk plays on a super team that has 5 or 6 NHL quality forwards on it, it's entirely possible that the aggregate ability of the rest of the league is AHL quality.  His production should be way better in that league than it is in the NHL because it is a vastly inferior league.  Like, say, Alex Radulov's production is, just to take an example that I thought of off the top of my head.

Kovalchuk plays way more minutes in the NHL than he does in the KHL, so that's one reason why his numbers there shouldn't be compared to his numbers here across the board.  Kovalchuk is no longer an elite goal scorer.  He has not been one for 5 seasons now.  He's just a garden-variety 1st/2nd line NHL forward now.  The 'bidding war' for him wasn't very real in 2011 - only two teams made significant offers - and now he has a KHL defection and many more years on his resume.  

Edited May 5, 2017 by Triumph

[Triumph]

14 minutes ago, aylbert said:

A 43yo Jagr got a 2nd and 3rd in February; with 29pts in 57 games... as a UFA.   Lee Stempniak got a 2nd and a 3rd as well.

I think you could trade Kovy for at least a 2nd as the floor...  likely 2nd and a prospect, etc.   I'd still press him to stay the season to at least the deadline to see what he can do for us in the "New York" area...   before we trade him to a tax-free Florida team? 

Jagr didn't have an NTC.  Neither did Stempniak.  Kovalchuk effectively has an NTC because he's not under an NHL contract.  He's not going to sign one unless he knows for sure where he is going.  That team knows that the Devils can't demand too much or else they risk blowing up the deal altogether.