In Russia NHL returns you. Kovalchuk staying in KHL.

[msweet]

Say NO-Valchuk.

If this isn't a ploy, just sign and trade.

good riddance ... again...

[thecoffeecake]

2 hours ago, fsu1852 said:

Its every year there is some report or rumor that he is coming back. Ill believe it when I see it

This is something I would agree with if it was just puck daddy or some Russian blogger as usual, but the sources are legitimate this time around.

[mfitz804]

Can someone explain to me how he "did us a favor" by leaving? If we were up against the cap and his leaving allowed us to spend more money elsewhere I would understand, but I don't think that's the case.

Even if he was being overpaid, I don't see how it would have affected us since we didn't spend that money elsewhere really. 

[sundstrom]

21 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Can someone explain to me how he "did us a favor" by leaving? If we were up against the cap and his leaving allowed us to spend more money elsewhere I would understand, but I don't think that's the case.

Even if he was being overpaid, I don't see how it would have affected us since we didn't spend that money elsewhere really. 

Because his $6.6mm cap hit would've been another 9 years going. It was an awful contract the minute it was signed. 

[Daniel]

26 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Can someone explain to me how he "did us a favor" by leaving? If we were up against the cap and his leaving allowed us to spend more money elsewhere I would understand, but I don't think that's the case.

Even if he was being overpaid, I don't see how it would have affected us since we didn't spend that money elsewhere really. 

It's wasn't the cap hit so much as leaving before the big bucks on his deal really kicked in and because of that the Devils avoided a potentially disastrous recapture penalty.  

[mfitz804]

40 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

Because his $6.6mm cap hit would've been another 9 years going. It was an awful contract the minute it was signed. 

 

34 minutes ago, Daniel said:

It's wasn't the cap hit so much as leaving before the big bucks on his deal really kicked in and because of that the Devils avoided a potentially disastrous recapture penalty.  

Was going to say, the Cap hit is irrelevant to a team taking on contracts of guys on LTIR in order to meet the floor. The cap hit would, right now and for the past few seasons since he left, be completely irrelevant. 

Not to say that he wouldn't have been getting overpaid, he may well have been. But I honestly would rather have had him and the cap hit with no issue from it, rather than not have him and still not have a cap issue. He may have done a lot of good. 

[Triumph]

9 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

 

Was going to say, the Cap hit is irrelevant to a team taking on contracts of guys on LTIR in order to meet the floor. The cap hit would, right now and for the past few seasons since he left, be completely irrelevant. 

Not to say that he wouldn't have been getting overpaid, he may well have been. But I honestly would rather have had him and the cap hit with no issue from it, rather than not have him and still not have a cap issue. He may have done a lot of good. 

The deal still would have 8 years left after this one.  It wouldn't even be half-over yet.  

Edited April 23, 2017 by Triumph

[mfitz804]

I understand. Thus far, no cap issue from that contract.

And, can you honestly say he wouldn't be better than maybe 8 of our 12 forwards every night, even now?

[Triumph]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I understand. Thus far, no cap issue from that contract.

And, can you honestly say he wouldn't be better than maybe 8 of our 12 forwards every night, even now?

It's 8 years.  With cap recapture, if Kovalchuk retired at any point, the Devils would've been on the hook for a huge dead cap hit every year until his contract is over.  How much longer do you think Kovalchuk wants to keep playing in the NHL?   

As I recall, the deal was structured like a 10 year/90 million dollar deal and then the last 5 years have a 10 million dollar salary allocation.  That means if Kovalchuk retired in 2020, the Devils would have a dead cap hit of $4.8 million until 2025.  Believe me, the Devils are going to need that cap space.

[mfitz804]

27 minutes ago, Triumph said:

It's 8 years.  With cap recapture, if Kovalchuk retired at any point, the Devils would've been on the hook for a huge dead cap hit every year until his contract is over.  How much longer do you think Kovalchuk wants to keep playing in the NHL?   

As I recall, the deal was structured like a 10 year/90 million dollar deal and then the last 5 years have a 10 million dollar salary allocation.  That means if Kovalchuk retired in 2020, the Devils would have a dead cap hit of $4.8 million until 2025.  Believe me, the Devils are going to need that cap space.

Bolded part #1, I never expected he was going to "retire" and leave. I don't know if, at that time, it would have been reasonable to assume he was going to retire early. 

Bolded part #2, I hope you're right, I'd like to have enough good players that $4.8m on the cap would make a difference. 

[CommonDreads]

Also, not to mention, the Devils probably don't get sold to the new owners if we're still carrying around a $100M contract. Getting rid of that contract was definitely a linchpin in getting stable ownership for this team.

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

Also, not to mention, the Devils probably don't get sold to the new owners if we're still carrying around a $100M contract. Getting rid of that contract was definitely a linchpin in getting stable ownership for this team.

That's probably a good point I hadn't considered. 

[NJDevs4978]

8 hours ago, '7' said:

Having the guy actually back and playing for us would not go over very well. Devils fans have long memories and guys who have wronged us are cold shouldered for a while. It took seemingly forever for Bruce Driver to get back into Devils fans good graces (I still don't think he is fully) 

You underestimate Devil fans' obsession with the guy, we never get flashy star players so when we finally got one he developed a cult-like following.  The fact people are excusing, rationalizing and finding convenient motives for him leaving is proof of that.  Plus once a guy gets back in our uniform all tends to be forgiven, look at Gomez.  And he left us for the Rangers, not Russia.

[Daniel]

17 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

You underestimate Devil fans' obsession with the guy, we never get flashy star players so when we finally got one he developed a cult-like following.  The fact people are excusing, rationalizing and finding convenient motives for him leaving is proof of that.  Plus once a guy gets back in our uniform all tends to be forgiven, look at Gomez.  And he left us for the Rangers, not Russia.

We have the opportunity to get a player I feel will help the team a lot, and make games more exciting to watch.  I was actually never mad at him leaving, same as I was never mad at Parise for leaving.  (Gomez is another story becaus it was the Rangers, and then, to make matters worse, the Rags traded him for a better player.) Now, after a while, I realized that the contract we'd have to be dealing with for Kovy or Parise would not make things worth it.  But I'd take Kovy back on a reasonable deal in a minute, same as I would for Parise if that could theoretically happen.  

[titans04]

get whatever pick you can for the guy and send him elsewhere. Not all Devils fans are obsessed with a guy who bailed out on the team once already after signing an absurd contract.

Edited April 24, 2017 by titans04

[newjerseydamo]

As per the offseason thread:

The only thing I'd ever advocate when it comes to Kovy is a straight sign and trade. Get him in the league, then flip him ASAP.

As for people suggesting he is worth a 1st + prospect, good luck with that. We'd be lucky to get a 2nd straight up for him.

He's 34, left his team after signing a long term contract, hasn't been in the NHL for several years.

If Shero gets a 1st, he is a GM god.

[Triumph]

40 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

You underestimate Devil fans' obsession with the guy, we never get flashy star players so when we finally got one he developed a cult-like following.  The fact people are excusing, rationalizing and finding convenient motives for him leaving is proof of that.  Plus once a guy gets back in our uniform all tends to be forgiven, look at Gomez.  And he left us for the Rangers, not Russia.

While this certainly exists, I can't imagine it's a widely-held belief among Devils fans at large - I certainly think Kovalchuk would get plenty of boos if were to become a Devil again.  Gomez left for the Rangers, but he did so 7 years before he came back, and went through 3 other teams in between, plus he had 2 Stanley Cups with the team.  Kovalchuk has very little of that on him, plus he had a signed contract and left - it's just a different scenario.

[Jersey Sure]

9 hours ago, CommonDreads said:

Also, not to mention, the Devils probably don't get sold to the new owners if we're still carrying around a $100M contract. Getting rid of that contract was definitely a linchpin in getting stable ownership for this team.

Yes.  If I remember that summer, after he left there was one ownership group before Harris/Blitzer that almost came in.  So that is a great point.

I also felt that they should have restored the full pick instead of giving them a 30th, the new owners weren't part of that and spent a fair amount of money to buy a franchise that the NHL was kind of financially running at that time.

[NJDfan1711]

I'd take him back on a reasonable deal, I just don't see it happening.  I feel as some others have said, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Derlique]

My whole take on the situation is, well, I guess we should start with personal feelings from his "retirement". At the time, it was obviously a huge shock, but was it? I think a lot of us chose to ignore the warning signs, such as well-connected reporters saying he was flirting with staying there long term. Of course, NJ let him join training camp late when he decided he had to stay for the KHL Allstar game. Maybe we have the right to feel abandoned, deserted or whatever adjective you want to use. I dont see it that way. Kovalchuk gave everything to us during that 2012 run and obviously hasnt been nearly the same guy since. Call it aging, call it injuries, call it not caring anymore, that contract wouldve been a figgin disaster. There would be EIGHT years left on that original contract. If Kovy was to retire after next year, after he made 86 of his 101 million, the Devils would have a $4.3 million cap hit for 6 years. That's the price of in dead cap we would have had if/when he bolted when he made most of his money. We are paying a measly 250k for a player who was not nearly the same when we signed him in 2010. You have to be either a. high or b. naive to think that Lou wasn't at least ok with Kovy leaving (and probably encouraged it). 

As far as him wanting to return and whether or not it's a good fit for NJ. I suppose we should point out the possibility Tri pointed out- is he just using this as leverage for a new KHL contract? We won't know that for weeks, so let's just ignore this scenario because it's not fun! 

If you boil it down to positional need, we could absolutely use Kovalchuk. Palmieri, Kovalchuk and Bennett is fantastic rw depth. He even has the flexibility to move to the left if need be.

If you look at age, I think this is a point against. He just turned 34 and will only get worse. I think Kovalchuk is a 25 goal scoring, 50 point forward these days, which would probably rank top 3, after Hall and Palmieri. Is that worth 3 years at 20 milllion, or 2 years at 14? NJ has no foreseeable cap issues, tho, things can really get complicated if Shattenkirk decides he wants to take the money and sign here. Then we have to consider Severson is getting a nice raise and Shero is going to have to bring in another top 4 dman if NJ want to compete soon. Is Kovalchuk someone you want to commit that money to? Another question to consider, does he even want to be here? I'm sure Kovalchuk wants to win a cup and I can't think of many teams that are farther way from that goal as us.

I guess this is a long winded way of saying we should sign and trade him, if we're allowed. I think Friedman says we can, so hopefully he's right. His age does not fit with our window and I think NJ would be better served selling him for a high pick (1st if possible) or a young player. Let's face it, teams are going to be desperate to win for a myriad of reasons. Teams like San Jose, LA, Anaheim, Montreal and NYR may want to take a final shot at a cup with an aging core. Chicago, Washington and Pittsburgh have high expectations and are smack dab in the middle of their respective windows. Or maybe he wants to join a young up and coming team like Toronto (who have a crazy amount of cap space). There are no shortage of potential suitors for Kovalchuk and I think Shero would be wise to try and continue the rebuilt and acquire assets. IK17 is a free middle-high end asset that just fell into our laps again. Be thankful.

[mfitz804]

I'd pay him $6 million each for two seasons if you'd guarantee 25 goals and 25 assists (although you might be low on the assists, he may be capable of more than that). 

Bottom line, we don't have cap issues. Worst that happens is he bombs out, at least you don't have him for 8 more years. At best he helps the team back to the playoffs. Somewhere in the middle he shows he can still play and you trade him to a contender for some prospects or picks. 

I just don't see a down side, assuming that spending the money on him doesn't prevent us from spending on someone else we could use. I'm not saying Kovy instead of say, Shattenkirk for example. But if you can sign Kovy and still get the other available guy or guys we want, why the fvck not?

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by mfitz804

[Derlique]

18 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I'd pay him $6 million each for two seasons if you'd guarantee 25 goals and 25 assists (although you might be low on the assists, he may be capable of more than that). 

Bottom line, we don't have cap issues. Worst that happens is he bombs out, at least you don't have him for 8 more years. At best he helps the team back to the playoffs. Somewhere in the middle he shows he can still play and you trade him to a contender for some prospects or picks. 

I just don't see a down side, assuming that spending the money on him doesn't prevent us from spending on someone else we could use. I'm not saying Kovy instead of say, Shattenkirk for example. But if you can sign Kovy and still get the other available guy or guys we want, why the fvck not?

 

What's the absolute best case that happens next year or two with Kovy? We sneak into the playoffs and get demolished in the first round? That isnt the recipe for long term success. NJ will get better through Hall, Zacha, McLeod, Severson, 1st pick this year, next year's 1st (likely) and hopefully some of the B level guys having flukeish development. If you can get a guy like Vrana or Puljujarvi or a good young D, you have to take it. It just fits in better with NJ's timeline

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, SMantzas said:

What's the absolute best case that happens next year or two with Kovy? We sneak into the playoffs and get demolished in the first round? That isnt the recipe for long term success. NJ will get better through Hall, Zacha, McLeod, Severson, 1st pick this year, next year's 1st (likely) and hopefully some of the B level guys having flukeish development. If you can get a guy like Vrana or Puljujarvi or a good young D, you have to take it. It just fits in better with NJ's timeline

I don't think that Kovy coming would have any effect on any of that. Who would you prefer, Kovy at 25G, 25A or DSP? Or Bennett? Or Cammy? Or Josefson? The list goes on from there. There's plenty of room for him and developing young players. Stick that version of Kovy on a line with Zacha, good things will happen. 

[Derlique]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I don't think that Kovy coming would have any effect on any of that. Who would you prefer, Kovy at 25G, 25A or DSP? Or Bennett? Or Cammy? Or Josefson? The list goes on from there. There's plenty of room for him and developing young players. Stick that version of Kovy on a line with Zacha, good things will happen. 

It just isnt good use of a free asset that probably doesnt want to play here and is old

[Jerzey]

In a way I think Kovy kind of does fit into our window. If not we might as well trade Hall and Cory away too because that window wouldn't be open before Hall's contract is up and Cory is about Kovy's age now either.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Jerzey