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In Russia NHL returns you. Kovalchuk staying in KHL.


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8 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:


Devils fans have a huge blind spot with this guy, and in more ways then one.... It's like a fvcking cult. If someone is willing to do a sign and trade, fine by me... I'm sick and tired of hearing about this moron though, so I'd welcome a deal that can get us an asset or two back, if it also assures I never have to hear his name mentioned by another Devils fan ever again.


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Could not agree more.  How many on the bandwagon have seen him play more than 4-5 games since he left here, if that.  

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22 hours ago, Triumph said:

While this certainly exists, I can't imagine it's a widely-held belief among Devils fans at large - I certainly think Kovalchuk would get plenty of boos if were to become a Devil again.  Gomez left for the Rangers, but he did so 7 years before he came back, and went through 3 other teams in between, plus he had 2 Stanley Cups with the team.  Kovalchuk has very little of that on him, plus he had a signed contract and left - it's just a different scenario.

While sometimes message board anger can differ from real anger (Stephen Gionta was constantly ripped on message boards yet one of the most popular Devils with fans at the arena), I think you're wrong here.  People aren't going to care that he walked out if he comes back and can help a team that's been bad for years, especially with this mindset that him walking out saved us on the cap anyway.  Or that at least he didn't go to another NHL team.

22 hours ago, Daniel said:

We have the opportunity to get a player I feel will help the team a lot, and make games more exciting to watch.  I was actually never mad at him leaving, same as I was never mad at Parise for leaving.  (Gomez is another story becaus it was the Rangers, and then, to make matters worse, the Rags traded him for a better player.) Now, after a while, I realized that the contract we'd have to be dealing with for Kovy or Parise would not make things worth it.  But I'd take Kovy back on a reasonable deal in a minute, same as I would for Parise if that could theoretically happen.  

Except Parise (and Gomez) actually left as free agents.  Free as in they had the right to choose where they wanted to go.  Kovalchuk walked out on a long-term contract to go play in another league, and after the team paid a hefty price in terms of penalties for his contract.

And this idea that we should thank him for walking out because it saved us on the cap is silly.  Sure that was the end result but if you believe that's why he walked out you're just looking to rationalize him wanting the money and adulation for less work back home.  If he was trying to do the team a favor with the contract he wouldn't have needed an illegal contract to come here in the first place.  It'd be in a sense like crediting Lou for keeping pick #29 if Matteau somehow became a good player, it was still the wrong decision even if that happened.

 

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Dismissal?! :lol:  This is the kind of stuff that I'm talking about, people just can't wait to cut this guy a break but everyone else gets shat on for leaving.

And people make his 2012 playoffs to be Claude Lemieux like legendary.  He had a decent postseason but you'd think he was Willis Reed with the way people talk about it, a lot of guys play seriously hurt in the NHL playoffs.  Just ask Joe Thornton.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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I d

48 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Dismissal?! :lol:  This is the kind of stuff that I'm talking about, people just can't wait to cut this guy a break but everyone else gets shat on for leaving.

And people make his 2012 playoffs to be Claude Lemieux like legendary.  He had a decent postseason but you'd think he was Willis Reed with the way people talk about it, a lot of guys play seriously hurt in the NHL playoffs.  Just ask Joe Thornton.

Kovalchuk left everything out there in 2012.  He didn't play very well and by the end he was totally used up, just had nothing left against the Kings; but we will never know how hurt he was, and he buried the chances he got.

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Kovalchuk left everything out there in 2012.  He didn't play very well and by the end he was totally used up, just had nothing left against the Kings; but we will never know how hurt he was, and he buried the chances he got.

Except that motherfvcking post in game 1 of the Finals that still haunts my nightmares. [emoji53]

 

 

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just like henrique gets credit for what i dont know...the whole "henrique, its over" goal was set up by kovy.

anyway after a SCF and a lockout and before an olympics and team sale...its a wash; not a favor or a screw job its business and we dont know what went on off the ice

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3 hours ago, HellOnICE said:

I also think we should remember he was the guy despite being able to barely walk, got 19 points in the playoff run. He left it all out there with that bad back. That I remember. 

No one knows the circumstances behind his dismissal. We may never know.

This is the reason that emotions should be left out of these decisions, on both ends. Kovalchuk leaving the team was quite a mystery at the time, and the fact that he almost immediately said he's still after a Stanley Cup made it all that much weirder. I still think there's more to it than what the fans know. This guy literally put the team on his back in his last season here, to the point that they could not win a game without him. I'm not saying there hasn't been a decline, but it's just as ridiculous for people to assume that he's done as an NHL player just because they're bitter about the retirement.

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8 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Dismissal?! :lol:  This is the kind of stuff that I'm talking about, people just can't wait to cut this guy a break but everyone else gets shat on for leaving.

And people make his 2012 playoffs to be Claude Lemieux like legendary.  He had a decent postseason but you'd think he was Willis Reed with the way people talk about it, a lot of guys play seriously hurt in the NHL playoffs.  Just ask Joe Thornton.

I don't crap on anyone for leaving. Never really have. Maybe Gomez. :P But they come back, they are a Devil - I am fine with that. 

I have a hard time believing Lou didn't have a hand at Kovy leaving when he did. The contract not kicking in to the higher recapture years coupled with the ownership and money problems back then. People forget, we were pretty much bankrupt.

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8 hours ago, Triumph said:

I d

Kovalchuk left everything out there in 2012.  He didn't play very well and by the end he was totally used up, just had nothing left against the Kings; but we will never know how hurt he was, and he buried the chances he got.

Was his siatic nerve.  Doctors had to numb it when he sat out for game 2 of the Flyers series.

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Was his siatic nerve.  Doctors had to numb it when he sat out for game 2 of the Flyers series.

I thought it was a herniated disc? Either way, painful to play through for sure.

---

But regardless, I'm not getting my hopes up. I feel like this will end up only being talk to force the KHL to pony up and throw more money at him.

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This is the reason that emotions should be left out of these decisions, on both ends. Kovalchuk leaving the team was quite a mystery at the time, and the fact that he almost immediately said he's still after a Stanley Cup made it all that much weirder. I still think there's more to it than what the fans know. This guy literally put the team on his back in his last season here, to the point that they could not win a game without him. I'm not saying there hasn't been a decline, but it's just as ridiculous for people to assume that he's done as an NHL player just because they're bitter about the retirement.

They won game two against the Flyers without him. More hyperbole.


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2 hours ago, Jersey Sure said:

Elliotte Friedman is a top notch reporter/columnist, and well respected.  But he's also not the gospel and isn't always 100%.  So this is really just a bunch of nothing until Ray Shero actually makes it so or not so.

It's a very safe bet that he's correct on how the process will work.  He's almost certainly getting his information directly from Bettman or one of Bettman's deputies, maybe Daley, and Bettman will ultimately decide how this will all work. 

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Coming out of the ether to comment on this, but it all comes down to the "The Plan". We as fans want to to win now, but what if Shero and Co's plan is to build a winning franchise? Based on that mindset, they may want to pass unless they find a dancing partner and do an immediate sign and trade.

Here's what I'm thinking: Lets say we sign Kovy, and he has 40 points heading to the deadline. He's made the team better, we climb up the standings a bit and go from basement dwellers to an "in the mix" team. Kinda sorta in the race come March, but fall short of the playoffs. Middle of the pack. 

Now we're picking in the middle of the draft, and we have a 35 year old winger with back issues declining in value by the minute. Remember, Kovy isn't Jagr. The best we could do is move him for a pick to a contender, but with that production, you'd probably get a second rounder. Same price you would have gotten now with a worse opportunity to obtain good, cheap talent in the draft. 

And while I'm never in favor of tanking or punting seasons, I am in favor of building a team organically. Stapling Kovy onto this roster would make the team better next year, but I think it would set us back from the ultimate goal: becoming a perennial contender.

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We need to start winning again. Ok? Let me tell you, I've met Taylor Hall, tremendous, tremendous person. But he's got no help. We've got to stop getting killed on trade! I know Ilya very well, another wonderful person mind you, and he could help! I plan on assembling a team of the best and brightest. And folks, it's going to be HUGE. Ilya Kovalchuk is going to help this team in a big league way. 

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5 hours ago, HellOnICE said:

I don't crap on anyone for leaving. Never really have. Maybe Gomez. :P But they come back, they are a Devil - I am fine with that. 

I have a hard time believing Lou didn't have a hand at Kovy leaving when he did. The contract not kicking in to the higher recapture years coupled with the ownership and money problems back then. People forget, we were pretty much bankrupt.

How exactly were they going to convince him to leave if he didn't want to leave, threaten to send him to the AHL? Why would he care about the Devils cap situation when he left for four years and counting? Or making the team easier to sell when he wasn't going to play for them? You guys are basically imagining him into Mother Theresa leaving for our own good because of your bias towards him as a player.

And if you're going to credit him for saving us on the contract then blame him for the contract penalty to begin with at least.

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

It's a very safe bet that he's correct on how the process will work.  He's almost certainly getting his information directly from Bettman or one of Bettman's deputies, maybe Daley, and Bettman will ultimately decide how this will all work. 

Oh, I'm not disputing that he knows the process.  However, the end result of this is still just speculation.

 

This sort of reminds me of last year at around training camp.  Friedman had an item in his column that went like this:  "spoke to an agent I know, he says that someone he knows in Toronto that they would love Travis Zajac on the Leafs."  From there, Rich Chere had a headline:  "Leafs Interested in Zajac."   The next day I turn on the NHL Network and Darren Drager leads off his insider report like this:  I've got a big one out of New Jersey.  Sources close to the Devils say that Toronto and the Devils might pull off a deal for Travis Zajac".  Dreger goes on and uses Chere as his source close to the Devils, while Chere pulled his source from a thought in Friedman's column and all Friedman did was quote an agent he knew.   Sometimes these guys have the gals at my wife's beauty parlor beat by 20 lengths.

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1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

How exactly were they going to convince him to leave if he didn't want to leave, threaten to send him to the AHL? Why would he care about the Devils cap situation when he left for four years and counting? Or making the team easier to sell when he wasn't going to play for them? You guys are basically imagining him into Mother Theresa leaving for our own good because of your bias towards him as a player.

And if you're going to credit him for saving us on the contract then blame him for the contract penalty to begin with at least.

Nobody's saying that Lou could have somehow tightened the screws and forced him out.  But you think it's entirely a coincidence that he left when the big bucks on his deal were going to kick in, the team was being sold, etc.?  So while I doubt there was some understanding from the start, I agree with Tri that it's quite plausible that Lou told Kovalchuk that if you're going to leave, now's the time to do it.  And it's also possible there was some talk at that time about what a return might look like, but that's probably a stretch.

Whether it was for completely selfish reasons is irrelevant.  Getting out of that contract and the possible hellish recapture penalty helped the team a lot more than him staying could have given all the circumstances, the most notable of which is that we might not have the ownership that we have now.

So I'm looking at what's in the best interest of the team now and my interests as a fan.  And my opinion is that he can help the team win for at least another three years.  He'll also bring a lot of excitement that the team desperately lacks.  Reasonable minds can differ on that, but it would be really, really silly to let his leaving cloud your judgment on what to do now.

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1 hour ago, Devils Pride 26 said:

We need to start winning again. Ok? Let me tell you, I've met Taylor Hall, tremendous, tremendous person. But he's got no help. We've got to stop getting killed on trade! I know Ilya very well, another wonderful person mind you, and he could help! I plan on assembling a team of the best and brightest. And folks, it's going to be HUGE. Ilya Kovalchuk is going to help this team in a big league way. 

Mr. President, are you saying bigly or big league?  I'm confused.

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1 hour ago, Devils Pride 26 said:

We need to start winning again. Ok? Let me tell you, I've met Taylor Hall, tremendous, tremendous person. But he's got no help. We've got to stop getting killed on trade! I know Ilya very well, another wonderful person mind you, and he could help! I plan on assembling a team of the best and brightest. And folks, it's going to be HUGE. Ilya Kovalchuk is going to help this team in a big league way. 

We'll buy McDavid and make the Rangers pay for it. Eventually, but at a later date so we can get started early, the Rangers will be paying, in some form, for the badly needed player.

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5 minutes ago, eaglejelly said:

We'll buy McDavid and make the Rangers pay for it. Eventually, but at a later date so we can get started early, the Rangers will be paying, in some form, for the badly needed player.

And then we'll start building up the defense. A wall!

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