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caron14

Nico or Nolan

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I was Team Nolan from the lottery until two weeks ago.

In Mid-May, I changed my mind to Nico.

After the combine, I'm back to Nolan. Just due to the fact that he was able to participate in everything and he played the whole season with a second sports hernia and still produced like a champ.

Whenever I envision the Devils taking the other, I get disappointed for half a second and then realize we're getting a stud either way!

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I see it like what you're told to do on a multiple choice test.  If you pick an answer, but later aren't sure, only change your answer if you're absolutely positive your first choice was wrong. 

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What do you guys think of this Todd Cordell character (blogger)?  He seems sold on Hischier based on underlying advanced stats.  But my question is more - do you guys think he's a good source of intel or do you generally dismiss his opinions?  Seems like a well-researched "reporter".

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I'm also switching back to Patrick. Playing with an diagnosed sports hernia is no joke. 

 

I don't want to say winning No1 overall is ruined by philly getting number 2 but its certainly taking the shine off. Imagine Patrick is chronically injured and Hischier turns into Datsyuk 2.0 for the flyers for the next 10 years... 

 

It's gonna be hard to deal with. Shero and the devils scouting staff HAVE to get this right. 

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26 minutes ago, bekim said:

What do you guys think of this Todd Cordell character (blogger)?  He seems sold on Hischier based on underlying advanced stats.  But my question is more - do you guys think he's a good source of intel or do you generally dismiss his opinions?  Seems like a well-researched "reporter".

He doesn't have, and doesn't purport to have any inside information.  However, if you're looking for in depth analysis of Devils news, especially when it comes to prospects, he's good to follow.  I don't know if there's anyone else out there who regularly watches CHL games with a focus on Devils prospects.  He tends to get a little too enamored with the fancy stats, but he isn't snooty about it.

As to him preferring Nico to Nolan, there are still plenty of people that do.

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I could see why someone would be a Nico guy just on the basis of Nolan's injury history and the fact that the league as a whole tends to underrate European efficiency and overrate Western Canadian grittitude.  I'm kind of that way myself.  I think I'll be happy with either guy but I probably still lean Nico slightly.

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29 minutes ago, Triumph said:

I could see why someone would be a Nico guy just on the basis of Nolan's injury history and the fact that the league as a whole tends to underrate European efficiency and overrate Western Canadian grittitude.  I'm kind of that way myself.  I think I'll be happy with either guy but I probably still lean Nico slightly.

I don't think that really holds true anymore.  If anything, Nico's shooting up to the top 2 when he really didn't put up video game numbers in the Q suggests that there may be a slight bias towards European players.  Patrick had one of the best D-1 years since the 2005 lockout, and some people are calling him overrated.  

If there's something that seems to get overrated more than anything, it's size.  I am looking forward to Conte drafting Michael Rasmussen.  

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5 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I don't think that really holds true anymore.  If anything, Nico's shooting up to the top 2 when he really didn't put up video game numbers in the Q suggests that there may be a slight bias towards European players.  Patrick had one of the best D-1 years since the 2005 lockout, and some people are calling him overrated.  

If there's something that seems to get overrated more than anything, it's size.  I am looking forward to Conte drafting Michael Rasmussen.  

Come on.  Nico's team was awful.  Patrick's team wasn't much better.  Neither guy put up great numbers but their numbers are close.  There's not a bias towards European players.

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8 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Come on.  Nico's team was awful.  Patrick's team wasn't much better.  Neither guy put up great numbers but their numbers are close.  There's not a bias towards European players.

Look, Nico was ranked at the bottom of the first round going into the season, and rocketed up to being at worst the second pick in the draft.  However bad his teammates might have been, usually 100 points in the Q is required to rise that high that quickly.  So it certainly suggests to me that there's no anti European bias, and that there might be on average a bias towards Europeans.

Zacha is another guy indicative of this.  His being number 1 in the import draft gave him a lot more stature than his draft year statistics would suggest.  And before you say he was another Conte big body pick, apparently the Flyers were ready to take him if the Devils took someone else.  

Basically, there's a reason why Don Cherry is on TV and not draft floor. 

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5 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Look, Nico was ranked at the bottom of the first round going into the season, and rocketed up to being at worst the second pick in the draft.  However bad his teammates might have been, usually 100 points in the Q is required to rise that high that quickly.  So it certainly suggests to me that there's no anti European bias, and that there might be on average a bias towards Europeans.

Zacha is another guy indicative of this.  His being number 1 in the import draft gave him a lot more stature than his draft year statistics would suggest.  And before you say he was another Conte big body pick, apparently the Flyers were ready to take him if the Devils took someone else.  

Basically, there's a reason why Don Cherry is on TV and not draft floor. 

Usually 100 points in the Q are required?  What are you talking about?  Did any first-year draft eligible player score 100 points in any of the major junior leagues this year?   A little research says no, none of them did.  So if no one did that, how can any forward be drafted high?  

Zacha was ranked higher than players like Marner and Hanifin going into 2014-15.  He was thought to be #3 behind McDavid and Eichel at that time.  He'd already been a 4th liner/3rd liner in a decent men's league at age 16.  I'm not going to say he was another Conte big-body pick, this is a guy who was on radars for years before the 2015 draft - he was playing for a U20 team at age 15 and scoring a point a game.  Czech hockey is a small pond that's been drying up but still, that's very good.

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29 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Usually 100 points in the Q are required?  What are you talking about?  Did any first-year draft eligible player score 100 points in any of the major junior leagues this year?   A little research says no, none of them did.  So if no one did that, how can any forward be drafted high?  

Zacha was ranked higher than players like Marner and Hanifin going into 2014-15.  He was thought to be #3 behind McDavid and Eichel at that time.  He'd already been a 4th liner/3rd liner in a decent men's league at age 16.  I'm not going to say he was another Conte big-body pick, this is a guy who was on radars for years before the 2015 draft - he was playing for a U20 team at age 15 and scoring a point a game.  Czech hockey is a small pond that's been drying up but still, that's very good.

I'm going on past years where players drafted in the top 5 from the Q have all been 100 point players, MacKinnon, Drouin, PLD, Huberdeau. Yes, they were on good teams.  But the point is that the fact that Nico wasn't as dominant as those guys at least numbers wise, yet will at worst be the second pick in the draft shows that there isn't an anti- European bias.  There just isn't.

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6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I'm going on past years where players drafted in the top 5 from the Q have all been 100 point players, MacKinnon, Drouin, PLD, Huberdeau. Yes, they were on good teams.  But the point is that the fact that Nico wasn't as dominant as those guys at least numbers wise, yet will at worst be the second pick in the draft shows that there isn't an anti- European bias.  There just isn't.

MacKinnon and Huberdeau were on loaded teams, and you already know this.  I just told you there wasn't an 100 point player in junior hockey for whom this is their first draft-eligible year.  So no one was as dominant as them.  You've still got to hold a draft and draft people, they don't just call it off if there's no 100 point players.

One player doesn't prove anything.  I agree that I don't think anti-European bias will have anything to do with Nico Hischier's draft position.

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11 hours ago, Daniel said:

I'm going on past years where players drafted in the top 5 from the Q have all been 100 point players, MacKinnon, Drouin, PLD, Huberdeau. Yes, they were on good teams.  But the point is that the fact that Nico wasn't as dominant as those guys at least numbers wise, yet will at worst be the second pick in the draft shows that there isn't an anti- European bias.  There just isn't.

It's also important to note that NIco might've 100 points if he doesnt play in the WJC. Not many Canadians or Americans play in that tournament in their draft years. I think an interesting question is- if Nico doesnt play in the WJC, is he still in Patrick's group? He was incredible and I worry that people put too much stock in that small sample size.

Edited by SMantzas

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Every year I'm just left baffled when I read Button's final rankings. Chytil at #20 and ahead of Owen Tippett? What the hell is that dude smoking?

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On 6/7/2017 at 11:28 AM, Crisis said:

You were about to post some sweet gym mirror selfies.

Nah the lighting in there is not flattering. I have some tasteful nudes but those aren't for the general public.

Honestly how often does a hockey player need to push things from a lying position? Its why hockey players aren't jacked and swoll. Not necessary and will just wear you down.

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17 hours ago, SMantzas said:

It's also important to note that NIco might've 100 points if he doesnt play in the WJC. Not many Canadians or Americans play in that tournament in their draft years. I think an interesting question is- if Nico doesnt play in the WJC, is he still in Patrick's group? He was incredible and I worry that people put too much stock in that small sample size.

I like that he stepped up and played great against the best competition, it rightfully raises his stock in my mind, the draft is about how players project at higher levels. And with his regular season I think you also have to factor in that it was his first year overseas adjusting to life in a new continent. Kid had a real impressive year.

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12 hours ago, roomtemp said:

Honestly how often does a hockey player need to push things from a lying position? Its why hockey players aren't jacked and swoll. Not necessary and will just wear you down.

Chest strength is helpful for board battles (and many other things) but there're better ways of training that for hockey.

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13 hours ago, roomtemp said:

Nah the lighting in there is not flattering. I have some tasteful nudes but those aren't for the general public.

Honestly how often does a hockey player need to push things from a lying position? Its why hockey players aren't jacked and swoll. Not necessary and will just wear you down.

Like I said, I'm not expecting these guys to be able to lift a ton by any stretch, but two plates (135 lbs) for 10 reps is usually nothing for a lot of athletes...guess I'm just a little surprised, though I guess I shouldn't be, especially if lifting in general isn't really part of their routine yet.  When I was 29 years old, I could barely bench 100 lbs (I was 6' 1" and 190 lbs at the time)...I had a couple of friends who were into lifting and I started lifting with them, and at first it was really embarrassing...depending on how serious I am, I can now put up anywhere between 315 and 365, and have been able to do that for the last 16 years...even if I slack off for a few months, I can usually still put up 315 for a rep or two.  But yeah, no matter what you're doing, it's possible to be athletic/in good shape/wiry strong, but not necessarily "lifting strong".  After years of doing mostly upper-body training only (with the exception of treadmilling and outdoor speed-walking), I'm finally doing legs consistently...and I never realized how weak my legs really were (and I mean REALLY weak...after four months of dedicated leg training, I'd say I'm decent now, but squats still scare the hell out of me).  I feel almost like I did when I first started doing upper body.  I'm sure those guys have much stronger legs than I could dream of having at this point...and I'll probably never have their overall endurance.

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On June 7, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Triumph said:

Come on.  Nico's team was awful.  Patrick's team wasn't much better.  Neither guy put up great numbers but their numbers are close.  There's not a bias towards European players.

Is there not a preference towards Canadian or No. American players? i'm certainly biased. I don't consider Nico a "Euro" type after he proved himself on the smaller ice. 

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7 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

I'll be irate if we move this pick for anything less than a MASSIVE overpayment: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/friedman-devils-stars-dangle-no-1-no-3-picks-nhl-draft/


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Doesn't sound like Friedman is basing it on any specific intel. Most likely it is just talk. Dallas I could see maybe moving #3 but I would bet against that to, they have plenty of guys to pay and to take a run at it you usually need good talent on ELCs to.

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13 hours ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

Doesn't sound like Friedman is basing it on any specific intel. Most likely it is just talk. Dallas I could see maybe moving #3 but I would bet against that to, they have plenty of guys to pay and to take a run at it you usually need good talent on ELCs to.

That is how I interpreted it. Friedman was strictly speculating.

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I just don't see The Devils trading the #1 spot. They have enough picks to trade back into 1st round to grab a defense-man.

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