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Nico or Nolan


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 found this on Sportsnet

Ray Shero, New Jersey Devils General Manager
"Yes please, I'll take either. How's that?

...

"They’re outstanding players and Nolan, he’s obviously with injuries this year, I think it's been difficult, but everybody recognizes the talent he has and certainly hockey pedigree. And you see a kid from Switzerland with that kind of talent and you’re looking for centre icemen, but I think everybody in this position is not just looking for centre icemen, you’re looking for good players. And there are a number of good players here.

"Over the last couple of years you’ve had generational players and it's nice to see them prove it on the ice and you see a kid like Auston Matthews get 44 goals this year, from Arizona, that's fantastic. And obviously Connor McDavid, Jack Eichel, all these guys.

"In those drafts everybody’s got 1-2 and then from three to 10 maybe everybody’s got a different list — I think everybody might have a different list from one to eight at this point.

"I can’t speak for other teams, I think, if we had the first overall pick, I think we have a pretty good idea, but again, I'd love to have that problem."

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-team-reps-say-nolan-patrick-vs-nico-hischier/

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I'm 95% set on Nolan, but I'm open to changing my mind if there's a convincing argument for Nico. To me, it seems like Nolan is the more complete player, not too flashy, but does everything quite well, and has all the tools to succeed (hard to gauge his speed from these highlight videos, though). Also, don't forget about that shot. Nico is definitely more exciting to watch, really great hands, very fast, etc. Either pick would be good, but I'm sticking with NP.

A couple years back, during Quenneville's draft +1 year, I went to look at the Wheat Kings stats to see if Conte chose the right Wheat King (Jayce Hawryluk, JQ's teammate was selected a few picks later in 2014). I saw the name Nolan Patrick ahead of JQ in the stats page, and I wondered why Conte didn't have him on the radar as well. That's when I realized Patrick had 2 and a half more seasons before he was draft eligible. Since then, I've been dreaming of drafting a player like Patrick in NJ, someone who has been able to dominate a league from a young age, but I really did not think it would happen any time soon. The next season (17 years old), Patrick was 5th in the WHL in scoring, behind 4 players who were all 2-3 years older. And then this season, his p/g declined negligibly, but I don't see it as a problem, given it was an injury shortened season. If that injury doesn't happen, I think the Nico vs. Nolan question is a lot less difficult.

Looking at some of these highlight videos of Nolan, it almost reminds me of Matthews prospect videos from team USA. Not so much in playing style as much as how Nolan seems to be on another level compared to everyone else on the ice, every time. To me, Nico seems more like a Mitch Marner type, with his ridiculous skill set. I obviously would gladly take either one and will be happy with whichever player Shero/Castron go with, but I'm still leaning toward Nolan. I don't buy the lower ceiling talk, either.

Edited by nessus
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Patrick has had one of the most impressive draft -1 years in awhile. People are saying that he's on RNH's level as a prospect, but I think he'd be closer to Hall/Seguin level if he had been healthy all year.  The guy is 6'3, a definite center with high hockey IQ and has a blistering shot. The idea of a center finishing Hall's beautiful passes has be frothing at the mouth. Zajac was good this year, mind you, but he doesnt have the shot or touch around the net of Nolan. Nico is a great option as well, but I'm 80% Nolan, 20% Nico.

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1 hour ago, SMantzas said:

Patrick has had one of the most impressive draft -1 years in awhile. People are saying that he's on RNH's level as a prospect, but I think he'd be closer to Hall/Seguin level if he had been healthy all year.  The guy is 6'3, a definite center with high hockey IQ and has a blistering shot. The idea of a center finishing Hall's beautiful passes has be frothing at the mouth. Zajac was good this year, mind you, but he doesnt have the shot or touch around the net of Nolan. Nico is a great option as well, but I'm 80% Nolan, 20% Nico.

Doing a quick perusal it looks like Patrick might have had the most ppg as a CHLer, including the playoffs, as draft year -1 in the past ten or so years besides McDavid, Tavares and maybe Hall depending on if I did my math correctly.  Again, it's a quick look, so there might be a couple I've missed.  Yeah, he's got the very early birthday, but I don't think it matters that much. 

Should also note that his draft year -1 blows away guys who also played with the some great players such as Dylan Strome and Mitch Marner, and some other real established players like Seguin.

So looking more and more to me that if he has a clean bill of health and there aren't any other red flags that Patrick is the safer pick, which is what I would go with.

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I don't think we can go wrong with either of these players and I won't be upset with whoever we pick.  I was really impressed by Nico's performance at the WJC this winter, and how he was able to carry that Swiss team on his back.  The kid has serious wheels and hands to match, which is scary to think about since we will likely be facing him a Flyers uniform for the next 10+ years. 

That said, my choice probably would be Nolan Patrick. Nolan is an all-around player with an NHL body, wicked shot, and great vision.  When he's healthy, he's been an absolutely dominant player going up against older and more experienced players in the WHL.  However, the injuries do concern me a little bit.  It's not enough to draft Nico over him, but it makes it much more of a toss up then it would be if Nolan didn't have the injury issues.  It will be interesting to see if the Devils go with Patrick over Nico, especially since Nico seems to fit more of the fast, attacking, and supportive model the Devils have been trying to mold this team into lately.  Still, I don't think they will pass on Patrick in the end, unless the doctors come back with something they don't like in their physical evaluations of him prior to the draft.   

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40 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Doing a quick perusal it looks like Patrick might have had the most ppg as a CHLer, including the playoffs, as draft year -1 in the past ten or so years besides McDavid, Tavares and maybe Hall depending on if I did my math correctly.  Again, it's a quick look, so there might be a couple I've missed.  Yeah, he's got the very early birthday, but I don't think it matters that much. 

Should also note that his draft year -1 blows away guys who also played with the some great players such as Dylan Strome and Mitch Marner, and some other real established players like Seguin.

So looking more and more to me that if he has a clean bill of health and there aren't any other red flags that Patrick is the safer pick, which is what I would go with.

Yeah, that's crazy. Going back to Crosby's draft, I have these 1 OA as definitely higher regarded in their draft year.

Crosby

Stamkos

Tavares

Mackinnon

McDavid

Matthews

Kane/Hall are probably slightly ahead, but maybe its even due to Patrick being a center.

He's definitely ahead of Ekblad, Yakupov, RNH and Johnson.

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The Devils should be fairly well informed about Patrick, between scouting Quenneville and subsequently watching him in 2015-16, they likely watched quite a bit of Provorov in Brandon as well as he was right in the range of where they took Zacha 6th overall in 2015 (Provorov went 7th).

 

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Just now, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

The Devils should be fairly well informed about Patrick, between scouting Quenneville and subsequently watching him in 2015-16, they likely watched quite a bit of Provorov in Brandon as well as he was right in the range of where they took Zacha 6th overall in 2015 (Provorov went 7th).

 

Provorov, Quenneville and Zacha were drafted/scouted by the old scouting staff, and I don't think any of them are left.  It's possible that the new scouting staff did the same thing while they were with other teams though.

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17 minutes ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

The Devils should be fairly well informed about Patrick, between scouting Quenneville and subsequently watching him in 2015-16, they likely watched quite a bit of Provorov in Brandon as well as he was right in the range of where they took Zacha 6th overall in 2015 (Provorov went 7th).

 

They will have had a ton of information on him before picking him became a possibility. If they don't, well, they're doing a terrible job.

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I preface this by saying I know nothing about either player other than reports that I've read and a few highlight videos, but it seems pretty simple- If Patrick gets a clean bill of health, he'll be the pick. It seems to me all of his injury time basically stemmed from a single injury that never quite healed properly, unless I'm missing something?

It will be tough for me personally because I have a personal mantra of never trusting someone with two first names but I'll have to make an exception here.

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2 hours ago, Daniel said:

Provorov, Quenneville and Zacha were drafted/scouted by the old scouting staff, and I don't think any of them are left.  It's possible that the new scouting staff did the same thing while they were with other teams though.

I know Shero brought in Castron, I assumed that some of the old scouting department remains but maybe none do. Good news I suppose if true.

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Dont forget one thing... Shero Draft Mcleod instead of logan Brown last year... he went for speed and flash instead of size... He might do the same things here  and Draft Hischier.

Everybody from the Québec média... Things that we would be dumb to draft Patrick over Hischier. There was an argument on 91.9 radio about if we are dumb enough to not take Hischier. Im not saying they are right... but I like that everybody here is on Patrick and every in Quebec and Canada are on Hischier. 

He dominates games against the best. It was a pleasure to saw him in the QJMHL this year...

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Dont forget one thing... Shero Draft Mcleod instead of logan Brown last year... he went for speed and flash instead of size... He might do the same things here  and Draft Hischier.

Everybody from the Québec média... Things that we would be dumb to draft Patrick over Hischier. There was an argument on 91.9 radio about if we are dumb enough to not take Hischier. Im not saying they are right... but I like that everybody here is on Patrick and every in Quebec and Canada are on Hischier. 

He dominates games against the best. It was a pleasure to saw him in the QJMHL this year...

Over on HF, some Flyers fans seem to think Shero is trying to get Philly to switch spots, because apparently Hextall wants Hischier and wants to make sure he gets him... It's an interesting theory, considering the Flyers are flush with D prospects (which we lack) and picks. I just can't see that happening though- maybe something like that could work if this wasn't the Flyers we were talking about, but I think there would be some hesitation on both ends to make a deal like that, given the rivalry.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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17 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Over on HF, some Flyers fans seem to think Shero is trying to get Philly to switch spots, because apparently Hextall wants Hischier and wants to make sure he gets him... It's an interesting theory, considering the Flyers are flush with D prospects (which we lack) and picks. I just can't see that happening though- maybe something like that could work if this wasn't the Flyers we were talking about, but I think there would be some hesitation on both ends to make a deal like that, given the rivalry.

I'd be up for that if Patrick is our target anyway. But if they are willing to do that, maybe Hischier should be our target...

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55 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Over on HF, some Flyers fans seem to think Shero is trying to get Philly to switch spots, because apparently Hextall wants Hischier and wants to make sure he gets him... It's an interesting theory, considering the Flyers are flush with D prospects (which we lack) and picks. I just can't see that happening though- maybe something like that could work if this wasn't the Flyers we were talking about, but I think there would be some hesitation on both ends to make a deal like that, given the rivalry.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shero does have connections to Philly via his late father, so maybe he's more likely to see Philly as just another team in the division rather than a hated rival like the Rangers.  And the Flyers apparently were offering a package to move up to number 1 in the '14 draft.  Maybe demand someone like Travis Sanheim.

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On 04/30/2017 at 6:38 PM, mfitz804 said:

I just feel like you have to be interested in the game to start playing. I guess if you're Canadian and your whole family plays hockey, that may not be the case. 

I've been heavily involved in soccer since I was pretty young, but aside from a couple years in high school, I haven't been all that interested in the game at a pro level. I watch the big tournaments  and I'm familiar with the stars, but not really my thing to sit and watch every day like I do hockey and other sports.

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Even without the injury problems I believe the Devils are more likely to draft Hischier than Patrick. After looking at every available footage of the two players, Patrick for me kinda resembles "the old NHL" whereas Hischier is the textbook "modern" lightning fast NHL player. The Devils need to become faster and Hischier is the perfect fit for this. Hischier and Hall would be just perfect together. You can always add Palmieri to the line to add some toughness, but as for speed and skill that would be just so tremendous.

As for Patricks injuries, I don't think you can seriously consider drafting him at No 1 when the differences between him and Hischier in terms of what they both bring to the table are so small. Think about it: Everybody will say "I told you so" if Patrick misses his first large chunk of games, which is surely going to happen sooner rather than later. Shero is not gonna risk that, he is too smart for this. And like I said, it's not as if we're talking a Connor McDavid vs Lawson Crouse difference here.      

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Clipped from Dan Rosen; NP would look good in a Devils sweater

"Patrick, from everything I've heard and read, is not the same as Connor McDavidJack Eichel or Auston Matthews, but that doesn't mean he can't develop into a true No. 1 NHL center. He doesn't have to be the equivalent of McDavid, Eichel or Matthews to be legit. I'd argue that Nicklas BackstromJonathan ToewsPatrice Bergeron and Anze Kopitar aren't the equivalent to Crosby, McDavid or Evgeni Malkin but still are elite centers. The Devils need a center like that, and Patrick is their best shot of getting one. General managers always say it's incredibly difficult to sign an elite center, that you have to draft one. Here's New Jersey's chance"

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5 hours ago, munichdevil said:

Even without the injury problems I believe the Devils are more likely to draft Hischier than Patrick. After looking at every available footage of the two players, Patrick for me kinda resembles "the old NHL" whereas Hischier is the textbook "modern" lightning fast NHL player. The Devils need to become faster and Hischier is the perfect fit for this. Hischier and Hall would be just perfect together. You can always add Palmieri to the line to add some toughness, but as for speed and skill that would be just so tremendous.

As for Patricks injuries, I don't think you can seriously consider drafting him at No 1 when the differences between him and Hischier in terms of what they both bring to the table are so small. Think about it: Everybody will say "I told you so" if Patrick misses his first large chunk of games, which is surely going to happen sooner rather than later. Shero is not gonna risk that, he is too smart for this. And like I said, it's not as if we're talking a Connor McDavid vs Lawson Crouse difference here.      

I couldn't agree more. I will take time to analyse both player more closely... But from the games that I saw from Patrick and  from Hischier, I would go for Nico right now... I still have a month and a half to confirm or change my mind. 

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1 hour ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

What bothers me is the "undisclosed injury"............

It won't be undisclosed to Shero and crew though.

They'll know what the deal is before drafting one of the two, no doubt in my mind.

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Since I too know nothing about prospects............except what I've recently read................I'm going to toss my hat in the Nico ring.

Yet, I'd prefer a swap with Philly (with something nice tossed in) and let them decide. Consequences be damned

Edited by Jimmy Leeds
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