If the Devils were as stupid as the Nets?

[Daniel]

The Brooklyn Nets lost out on the first pick in the draft this year and could very well lose it next year as well in a trade that brought in a couple of well past their prime players that even people who don't know much about basketball knew would not be enough to even come close to a championship.  

So imagine if the Devils were in a similar situation and this year and next, and the previous year, they didn't have a first round pick (you'd almost have to say they didn't even have second round picks to make it comparable to the fact that the NBA draft is only two rounds) and that they were traded for someone like Vinny LeCavalier, a guy who isn't even playing now.  Would you refuse to pay money to go to games or watch on television?   Would it cause you to find another team to root for?

And for people who follow basketball (since I don't), are NBA GMs on average less intelligent than other sports? There is absolutely no way on Earth that an NHL or NFL GM does something even remotely resembling what the Nets did.  I mean the only way an NHL team gives up the number of draft picks the Nets did would be for someone like McDavid.  An NFL team would do something like that for Andrew Luck, it's like the Nets got Carson Palmer.  

I'm not a basketball fan, but I really am fascinated by stupidity of such a high order.

[Triumph]

In basketball you just don't have that many tradeable assets.  Rosters have 12 players and the draft is 2 rounds long, and the 2nd round really isn't that important.  If you want to improve your team quickly there's not much else you can trade than future 1st rounders.

That said, everyone derided the Nets' trades at the time and they were quite stupid.  They wanted to make a splash when they got to Brooklyn and they were not successful in doing so and now they will be awful for a while.

[nessus]

What's even worse is the draft is in Brooklyn. I would be really upset if I were a fan.

[dmann422]

Plenty of GMs make moves that just look terribad in hindsight. If the Nets weren't straight up terrible and the picks were in the middle of round 1 it wouldn't look nearly as bad.

11 hours ago, Triumph said:

 They wanted to make a splash when they got to Brooklyn and they were not successful in doing so and now they will be awful for a while.

Yeah this is exactly the reason they did it. I don't think management could have seriously thought it would bring them a championship, they just needed more bankable names than Deron Williams and Joe John...snore... sorry i fell asleep for a second there writing that.

Whatever though... what little interest I still had in NBA was completely lost when the Nets left. I looked at the playoffs yesterday and was shocked, absolutely shocked that it's looking to be a Golden State-Cleveland finals match up. 12 year old me would have eaten the drama up. Now at 29 I have much better things to waste my time on than NBA.

[Jimmy Leeds]

Billy King was hired by Prokorov (sic?) and the owner was immediately in a "win now" mode.

Trading what they traded for Garnett and Paul (whatshisname) was just an epic disaster.

They've got a GM now who is trying his best. It'll take time

[Daniel]

27 minutes ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

Billy King was hired by Prokorov (sic?) and the owner was immediately in a "win now" mode.

Trading what they traded for Garnett and Paul (whatshisname) was just an epic disaster.

They've got a GM now who is trying his best. It'll take time

Yeah, but if the Devils did something similarly disastrous like that, to the point of being the worst team in the league AND not having successive first round picks to show for it, would it be enough for you to stop being a Devils fan?  I honestly might find another team to root for.

[MadDog2020]

My hope is the Nets go 0-82 every year from now until eternity for leaving NJ, so I find this all absolutely hilarious. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[roomtemp]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

Yeah, but if the Devils did something similarly disastrous like that, to the point of being the worst team in the league AND not having successive first round picks to show for it, would it be enough for you to stop being a Devils fan?  I honestly might find another team to root for.

It'd be bad but in the NBA this is franchise crippling, fanbase killing. Holy hell they don't even have a 1st round pick next year as this year was a swap with the Celtics. I think the Leafs trades were just as bad but it  being hockey and me having to combine trades nearly 2 decades apart makes me think of it, they could rebuild quicker then the Nets can. The next two years are going to be painful til they can get their own picks back in 2019

Edited May 17, 2017 by roomtemp

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 hours ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

Billy King was hired by Prokorov (sic?) and the owner was immediately in a "win now" mode.

Trading what they traded for Garnett and Paul (whatshisname) was just an epic disaster.

They've got a GM now who is trying his best. It'll take time

Paul Pierce, heh heh.

What made that deal SO baffling is that it wasn't like Garnett and Pierce had multiple years left in their primes...you were getting one good year out of each of those players, maybe two if you were incredibly lucky.  The Celtics still have to wonder how they got the Nets to make that deal. 

[Onddeck]

The celtics- nets trade might be the worst trade in the history of sports... seriously 

[pattyelias]

19 hours ago, Daniel said:

Yeah, but if the Devils did something similarly disastrous like that, to the point of being the worst team in the league AND not having successive first round picks to show for it, would it be enough for you to stop being a Devils fan?  I honestly might find another team to root for.

You can argue the cap circumventing Kovalchuk contract led to a pretty bad outcome for the Devils, no?

[Steadevils]

I like to think of it as the Leafs trading a 1st to the Devils for Kurvers thinking it would be a middle/ed of the 1st pick. But instead of it leading to 1 Neidermayer (and 3 cups!) it leads to 1 top 5 pick every other year for 3 drafts (or I think even 4 drafts because this was the swap picks year)...It is likely going to change the fortunes of 2 franchises for 10 to 15 years. Celtics will be near the top and the Nets near the bottom for a generation of young fans unless the Nets luck in to a Lebron after they get to draft in the first round again starting in..... 2019

Edited May 18, 2017 by Steadevils

['7']

fwiw that arena in Brooklyn is a mess. Pru Center is a far better sports venue in terms of layout and just presenting the event. Better lighting as well. Less cramped. Far less steep in the upper decks.

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, pattyelias said:

You can argue the cap circumventing Kovalchuk contract led to a pretty bad outcome for the Devils, no?

 

33 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

I like to think of it as the Leafs trading a 1st to the Devils for Kurvers thinking it would be a middle/ed of the 1st pick. But instead of it leading to 1 Neidermayer (and 3 cups!) it leads to 1 top 5 pick every other year for 3 drafts (or I think even 4 drafts because this was the swap picks year)...It is likely going to change the fortunes of 2 franchises for 10 to 15 years. Celtics will be near the top and the Nets near the bottom for a generation of young fans unless the Nets luck in to a Lebron after they get to draft in the first round again starting in..... 2019

There are stupid trades that can set a franchise back, and there are trades that kill a franchise for a very very long time.  The Kovy circumvention penalty didn't have to be that bad, if Lou had just given up the pick in 2012, but even so, the Devils are probably on an upward trajectory and even if not, can take some solace in being able to stockpile good draft picks if the losing continues.  Similar to the Leafs, they lost out on Nieds (who knows whether they would have even selected him anyway), who, while a Hall of Famer, really took maybe 5 to 8 years after being drafted to really being one of the best defenseman in the league. 

The only thing I could compare the Nets trade to would be a so-so team trading multiple first round picks for an over the hill Vinny Lecavalier. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, Steadevils said:

I like to think of it as the Leafs trading a 1st to the Devils for Kurvers thinking it would be a middle/ed of the 1st pick. But instead of it leading to 1 Neidermayer (and 3 cups!) it leads to 1 top 5 pick every other year for 3 drafts (or I think even 4 drafts because this was the swap picks year)...It is likely going to change the fortunes of 2 franchises for 10 to 15 years. Celtics will be near the top and the Nets near the bottom for a generation of young fans unless the Nets luck in to a Lebron after they get to draft in the first round again starting in..... 2019

Rockies made a pretty awful deal in 1981, at the start of the 1981-82 season...they traded their 1983 first-rounder to the Isles for Dave Cameron and Bob Lorimer.  It was an incredibly stupid deal...Lorimer was a solid defenseman and Cameron was a mild prospect, but they were not worth the price of a first-rounder that figured to be Top-5 easily.  The Isles took Pat LaFontaine with the pick, after laughing about it for the year-and-a-half it took to get to that draft (the Isles used to fleece the Rockies quite a bit back then).  Think having LaFontaine might've helped the Devils out a bit? 

[roomtemp]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

There are stupid trades that can set a franchise back, and there are trades that kill a franchise for a very very long time.  The Kovy circumvention penalty didn't have to be that bad, if Lou had just given up the pick in 2012, but even so, the Devils are probably on an upward trajectory and even if not, can take some solace in being able to stockpile good draft picks if the losing continues.  Similar to the Leafs, they lost out on Nieds (who knows whether they would have even selected him anyway), who, while a Hall of Famer, really took maybe 5 to 8 years after being drafted to really being one of the best defenseman in the league. 

The only thing I could compare the Nets trade to would be a so-so team trading multiple first round picks for an over the hill Vinny Lecavalier. 

Also how bad going from 11th iirc to 30th hurt us will be seen in a few years when all the 1st rounders start getting their shot in the NHL and how good they all are. Right looking back we missed on Dylan Larkin and a bunch of names that haven't matured yet.

[DevsMan84]

9 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Rockies made a pretty awful deal in 1981, at the start of the 1981-82 season...they traded their 1983 first-rounder to the Isles for Dave Cameron and Bob Lorimer.  It was an incredibly stupid deal...Lorimer was a solid defenseman and Cameron was a mild prospect, but they were not worth the price of a first-rounder that figured to be Top-5 easily.  The Isles took Pat LaFontaine with the pick, after laughing about it for the year-and-a-half it took to get to that draft (the Isles used to fleece the Rockies quite a bit back then).  Think having LaFontaine might've helped the Devils out a bit? 

I would argue that the Devils got the better of the Chico trade.  McDonald trade to Calgary, while not a disaster, wasn't good though.

Ramage wanted out of organization as soon as the team announced they were going to NJ so can't blame them for that.

That Cameron and Lorimer deal was terrible though.  No idea what they were thinking on that one.

[Devilsfan118]

22 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

My hope is the Nets go 0-82 every year from now until eternity for leaving NJ, so I find this all absolutely hilarious.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm going to echo this.

When they took "NJ" off their away unis before officially moving out of NJ they lost any sort of loyalty I had.

Hope the franchise burns to the ground.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

23 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I would argue that the Devils got the better of the Chico trade.  McDonald trade to Calgary, while not a disaster, wasn't good though.

Ramage wanted out of organization as soon as the team announced they were going to NJ so can't blame them for that.

That Cameron and Lorimer deal was terrible though.  No idea what they were thinking on that one.

Chico was going to FA and Billy Smith had become the man in the playoffs...Chico was also soon to be 33 years old when he was dealt to the Rockies...he had simply become expendable to the Isles.  Tambellini not really becoming a better player hurt...that deal really could have been a nice one if Tambellini had been able to really build off his 80-81 and 81-82 seasons with the Rockies.  He showed a lot of promise.  McEwen did a nice job shoring up the Isles' D in his first two playoff runs there...the Isles clearly saw something in them that they liked.  Chico's teams were so bad that it's hard to get a true read on his ability at that point...but his numbers were pretty dreadful (.860ish save%s)...he was likely declining.  I think you can argue that Chico was far more valuable for being such a great presence to be around more than his actual on-ice performance. 

Wasn't knocking all of their deals (like trading McDonald, Ramage, etc), but they definitely made their share of iffy to lousy trades.  Trading McDonald was a shame because he actually WANTED to be there and wanted to be part of a turnaround.  He was very upset when the Rockies moved him...though Ramage told him on his way out "What the hell are you upset about, this is the best thing for your career!"  Ramage obviously turned out to be right. 

But yeah, to reference Daniel's point, probably hard to be a fan when your team is making one or more beyond absurd deals that clearly won't help your team enough in the short term to give up so much in the long term.  I read somewhere that nose Vermeil, upon taking the Eagles job in 1976, didn't have a draft pick until 1979...the Eagles had pissed them away in awful trades.    

 

[thelastonealive]

On 5/17/2017 at 11:40 AM, Daniel said:

Yeah, but if the Devils did something similarly disastrous like that, to the point of being the worst team in the league AND not having successive first round picks to show for it, would it be enough for you to stop being a Devils fan?  I honestly might find another team to root for.

I'm a Mets fan; I can put up with a lot of stupidity from the teams I like...

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

16 minutes ago, thelastonealive said:

I'm a Mets fan; I can put up with a lot of stupidity from the teams I like...

Right there with you...oh the fvcking Mets...

[Daniel]

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Right there with you...oh the fvcking Mets...

At least in baseball you can't trade draft picks, although being at the top of the MLB draft less often gets you a sure thing than in any other North American sport, not to mention that a huge chunk of young talent is not even subject to the MLB draft.

But to get back to my original post, maybe I'm projecting a bit in that among my favorite sports events are the NHL and NFL drafts, and, usually no matter what I always have a sense of optimism afterwards.  So the worst thing a GM of a team I root for could do to me as a fan is be terrible and not have any good draft picks to show for it.

['7']

 

13 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I'm going to echo this.

When they took "NJ" off their away unis before officially moving out of NJ they lost any sort of loyalty I had.

Hope the franchise burns to the ground.

That was idiotic. Their move was microscopic in the grand scheme of things. But they totally went all out Brooklyn in branding and just spit on New Jersey. Way too much Brooklyn and too much pandering to the urban demographic. They have absolutely no support, no appeal to anybody in NJ anymore, to anybody in NYC or Queens or out on LI. We're just going to be all Brooklyn and wear drab black and white for some reason.

Really they should've incorporated some Brooklyn elements, but call yourself the New York Nets. And try to bring whatever (little) you established in NJ over to NY with you.

Edited May 19, 2017 by '7'

[thecoffeecake]

8 hours ago, '7' said:

 

That was idiotic. Their move was microscopic in the grand scheme of things. But they totally went all out Brooklyn in branding and just spit on New Jersey. Way too much Brooklyn and too much pandering to the urban demographic. They have absolutely no support, no appeal to anybody in NJ anymore, to anybody in NYC or Queens or out on LI. We're just going to be all Brooklyn and wear drab black and white for some reason.

Really they should've incorporated some Brooklyn elements, but call yourself the New York Nets. And try to bring whatever (little) you established in NJ over to NY with you.

The New York Nets would've been a much worse flop. The brand would not have worked as a second New York team. In fact, it would've defeated the whole purpose of their entire project. Ratner wanted to be the one to bring sports back to Brooklyn, and the Nets were just acquired to fill his shiny new development. Identifying as Brooklyn allowed them to carve out some kind of fan base, and even that wasn't very successful. How would they expect to go toe to toe competing with the Knicks as just another NY team? It would be a much bigger disaster. They tried to make a splash bringing sports back to Brooklyn, they wouldn't have moved at all if that wasn't the plan. They were always going to go all out Brooklyn. Getting rid of the Nets name would've made far more sense than branding New York.

As horrid as the basketball product is, both on the court and in terms of support, their brand is wildly successful, and "pandering" to the urban democratic is a huge reason why. I see tons of people in Nets stuff constantly around Philly, Sixers fans that are into the brand and wear snapbacks and other garbage.

When I first heard about the Nets wanting to move back in like 04 or 05, even as a kid I stopped supporting them. In the glory days, I was as big a Nets fan as I was a Devils fan. I was devastated. I bounced around teams here and there that I liked to watch growing up, but it so entirely turned me off of the NBA. And having the Nets sit around dead man walking for almost a decade was tough. The worst thing is when people would and still do say something along the lines of oh they're only in Brooklyn, you should still support them. I took a crack at watching the Sixers when I first moved to Philly, but that doesn't do much for me. I catch parts of games here and there and get alerts, probably have a Sixers tshirt stashed somewhere. I'm a big Jonathan Isaac fan, and if he ends up here, maybe I'll make an effort. But the NBA is a God damn circus, with the dead atmospheres, ridiculous entertainment, music playing during game play, players that don't give a sh!t, every team plays the same way. It really doesn't interest me. I went to a basketball school and started getting my fill with college ball. So much more exciting.

Bottom line, yea, fvck the Nets, and I hope the whole thing stays and horribly uninteresting and dead as it's been through the first 5 years. I hope you rot in Hell, Bruce Ratner.

Edited May 19, 2017 by thecoffeecake

[Jimmy Leeds]

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 11:40 AM, Daniel said:

Yeah, but if the Devils did something similarly disastrous like that, to the point of being the worst team in the league AND not having successive first round picks to show for it, would it be enough for you to stop being a Devils fan?  I honestly might find another team to root for.

No. Thick and thin