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2017 UFA Thread


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9 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

It doesn't make sense to move Rico. A homegrown player that's a part of the leadership core is worth a little more to us than his objective market value. It's not worth moving him if you're only getting an asset or assets of equivalent  market value, because that player or players dont have the added value of being a fan favorite, wearing a letter, being homegrown, owning one of the biggest single goals in franchise history. You move a Devil lifer for some second pairing dman who could walk at the first given opportunity? Besides, you create another hole by moving him. That's fine in a Larsson-Hall situation when you're getting a superstar in return for creating that hole. You're not getting Ristolainen for him.

I think the Devils need to be overpaid to move him, just as I thought with Larsson.

I am on board with this opinion. From the outside looking in, he does seem to be great in the locker room and he is more than just that 1 big goal. He has enough GWG's, including ones in the largest games/playoffs, throughout his hockey career that it does not seem statistically ignorant to say he is someone you want on the ice in those situations. Also, he kills penalties and can score 20+ goals a year. He is one of 3 players on the roster that you can say will score 20 goals next year barring injury. If you aren't getting back someone who can score reliably score 20 + goals a year what is the point? I really don't want to see the Devils in the bottom 5 of GF again. 

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Based on how everyone in hockey told us the lead up to the expansion draft was going to be one of the craziest offseason events we've ever witnessed, sure it's disappointing that we're not at least si

Two days ago, this was a pathetic draft class that we wanted no part of other than Shattenkirk. Now, the sky is falling because we lost out on him since he's going to realize his 15 year old wet dream

So... Detroit... 

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It doesn't make sense to move Rico. A homegrown player that's a part of the leadership core is worth a little more to us than his objective market value. It's not worth moving him if you're only getting an asset or assets of equivalent  market value, because that player or players dont have the added value of being a fan favorite, wearing a letter, being homegrown, owning one of the biggest single goals in franchise history. You move a Devil lifer for some second pairing dman who could walk at the first given opportunity? Besides, you create another hole by moving him. That's fine in a Larsson-Hall situation when you're getting a superstar in return for creating that hole. You're not getting Ristolainen for him.

I think the Devils need to be overpaid to move him, just as I thought with Larsson.

You're essentially preaching to the choir, I'm not saying we SHOULD trade Henrique- if you asked me a year ago about Larsson, I wouldn't have said we should trade him either. But if the right deal comes along- you do what you need to do.

 

 

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9 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

It doesn't make sense to move Rico. A homegrown player that's a part of the leadership core is worth a little more to us than his objective market value. It's not worth moving him if you're only getting an asset or assets of equivalent  market value, because that player or players dont have the added value of being a fan favorite, wearing a letter, being homegrown, owning one of the biggest single goals in franchise history. You move a Devil lifer for some second pairing dman who could walk at the first given opportunity? Besides, you create another hole by moving him. That's fine in a Larsson-Hall situation when you're getting a superstar in return for creating that hole. You're not getting Ristolainen for him.

I think the Devils need to be overpaid to move him, just as I thought with Larsson.

Let's stop making Henrique to be more than he is.  I couldn't care less about him being a homegrown Devil lifer...so far Josefson's a homegrown Devil lifer too...doesn't mean anything.  So he wears a letter...Arnott once wore a letter and even scored a Cup-clinching goal to boot...I don't think wearing a letter or being here for a while makes one seemingly indispensable by default...I think Palmieri is a lot more important to the Devils going forward than Henrique, as far as a leadership guy who also contributes on the scoresheet goes.  Sure, Henrique enjoys some popularity, but again, he's a mostly average NHLer who, outside of one (flukey) 30 goal season and that crazy series-clinching goal against the Rangers, simply isn't that big of a deal.  I'm not saying to move him for the sake of moving him, but I don't think the Devils should necessarily be looking to be blown out of the water either...if a deal comes along that looks fair and will help, I'm making it. 

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On 6/27/2017 at 1:39 PM, Sharifijanov2099 said:

UFAs I would target:

  • Kevin Shattenkirk
  • Beau Bennett
  • Jagr (lol, he can teach Nico how to train, 1 year deal)
  • MDZ (this kid can play, IMO, only 26, we need a D upgrade if we can't get Shattenkirk)
  • Brendan Smith (another younger D who can play)
  • Yakupov (worth a flier perhaps)

 Speaking of Jagr, when does this guy slow down?  if he keeps going like he is he is going to start making Gordie Howe's career seem like a flash in the pan.  Not to mention he will have played for every team in the NHL!

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32 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Let's stop making Henrique to be more than he is.  I couldn't care less about him being a homegrown Devil lifer...so far Josefson's a homegrown Devil lifer too...doesn't mean anything.  So he wears a letter...Arnott once wore a letter and even scored a Cup-clinching goal to boot...I don't think wearing a letter or being here for a while makes one seemingly indispensable by default...I think Palmieri is a lot more important to the Devils going forward than Henrique, as far as a leadership guy who also contributes on the scoresheet goes.  Sure, Henrique enjoys some popularity, but again, he's a mostly average NHLer who, outside of one (flukey) 30 goal season and that crazy series-clinching goal against the Rangers, simply isn't that big of a deal.  I'm not saying to move him for the sake of moving him, but I don't think the Devils should necessarily be looking to be blown out of the water either...if a deal comes along that looks fair and will help, I'm making it. 

He's scored 20+ goals 3 times. Excluding his first year when he only played 1 game, that's 20+ goals in 3 out of 6 seasons. And one year when he didn't he only played in 42 games. 

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7 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

He's scored 20+ goals 3 times. Excluding his first year when he only played 1 game, that's 20+ goals in 3 out of 6 seasons. And one year when he didn't he only played in 42 games. 

For his career, he averages 22.5 G and 23.8 A per 82 GP.  You could also say that, in the five non-lockout seasons he's played in to date, in three of them, he's scored 20 or less.  He only averages 1.78 SPG for his career as well (including 1.73 this past season, and he's never managed 2+ SPG in any given season, which leads me to believe that he's probably not going to improve much in that regard).

So basically, he's a guy who probably going to wind up with 40-50 points, and when he's getting puck luck, might score in the mid-to-upper 20s in goals, and outside of doing a nice job converting the limited shots on goal that he does get, doesn't really excite otherwise.  He's OK, a nice player, but just not anyone worth treating as a some untouchable. 

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53 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Let's stop making Henrique to be more than he is.  I couldn't care less about him being a homegrown Devil lifer...so far Josefson's a homegrown Devil lifer too...doesn't mean anything.  So he wears a letter...Arnott once wore a letter and even scored a Cup-clinching goal to boot...I don't think wearing a letter or being here for a while makes one seemingly indispensable by default...I think Palmieri is a lot more important to the Devils going forward than Henrique, as far as a leadership guy who also contributes on the scoresheet goes.  Sure, Henrique enjoys some popularity, but again, he's a mostly average NHLer who, outside of one (flukey) 30 goal season and that crazy series-clinching goal against the Rangers, simply isn't that big of a deal.  I'm not saying to move him for the sake of moving him, but I don't think the Devils should necessarily be looking to be blown out of the water either...if a deal comes along that looks fair and will help, I'm making it. 

Honestly, he does get considered a "lifer", which is odd, since its only been six seasons. It feels like a hell of a lot longer, hard to fathom that he was only a mere rookie when we went to the Finals in 2012. 

I like him, a lot. I was planning on getting a Henrique jersey this year. Now I am gonna hold off because you dudes are making me paranoid that he's gonna be moved. 

As I said earlier (in this thread or another), you have to give something good to get something good. If Josefson could bring back a top 4 D, I'd have done it years ago. That's not happening. Henrique alone may not get you that, actually. But its a hell of a lot closer. 

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I don't necessarily want to trade Henrique, he's arguably my favorite player on the roster right now, but he's probably the only forward on our roster not named Hall, Palmieri, or Zacha that could fetch us a good defenseman. If we don't improve our defense, we're going to be just as bad next season, so for the good of improving the team, if you can find a team willing to swap a #3 defenseman for Henrique, who is likely a middle 6 center, you have to at the very least consider it.

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Tell Kevin you'll offer him $1m more per year than any other team, you'll guarantee him the most playing time, and you'll let him sleep with any of your hot daughters/nieces. For fvcks sake, go full-Pitino and bring a bus full of strippers to the contract discussion. 

Do. Whatever. It. Takes.

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2 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

Also this re: Shattenkirk, if the Rangers aren't as eager for Shattenkirk as everyone thinks they are, we could have a legitimate shot on July 1

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mckenzie-wonders-eager-rangers-actually-sign-shattenkirk/

Even the suggestion that the Rags are close to a rebuild is music to my ears. :D

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Just now, Martyisth3b3st said:

Tell Kevin you'll offer him $1m more per year than any other team, you'll guarantee him the most playing time, and you'll let him sleep with any of your hot daughters/nieces. For fvcks sake, go full-Pitino and bring a bus full of strippers to the contract discussion. 

Do. Whatever. It. Takes.

It's funny...when it comes to the actual contract and numbers, Shattenkirk won't be a good deal.

BUT

A glamour signing like this really signals to your fanbase "We're back in this thing, we've started going full-in on building a competitive playoff team, that we hope can become a Cup candidate in the not-too-distant future."  Sometimes that first "not really great from a long-term standpoint" contract leads to other bolder (and occasionally pricey) moves being made...obviously some other things have happened (dealing for Hall, drafting Nico), but this kind of signing gets your fans that much more excited, and Shattenkirk should help the Devils for at least a few years.  So though Shattenkirk will likely be signing a contract that we may not be thrilled with down the line, I say just do it...

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6 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Even the suggestion that the Rags are close to a rebuild is music to my ears. :D

There will never again be a Blueskirt "rebuild" because there are always college FA's and top-flight talent who think that it's a rite of passage to play under the bright lights of broadway brah. And who can blame them, with a team who's been to 5 stanley cup finals and won three since 1995?  

Wait, did I mix that up?

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1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's funny...when it comes to the actual contract and numbers, Shattenkirk won't be a good deal.

BUT

A glamour signing like this really signals to your fanbase "We're back in this thing, we've started going full-in on building a competitive playoff team, that we hope can become a Cup candidate in the not-too-distant future."  Sometimes that first "not really great from a long-term standpoint" contract leads to other bolder (and occasionally pricey) moves being made...obviously some other things have happened (dealing for Hall, drafting Nico), but this kind of signing gets your fans that much more excited, and Shattenkirk should help the Devils for at least a few years.  So though Shattenkirk will likely be signing a contract that we may not be thrilled with down the line, I say just do it...

That's the way of the world now. If you don't give those extra years that you know will not be as good because of age related decline, someone else will and you won't get the player. That's why guys like Oshie get an 8 year extension. 

Its the cost of doing business. 

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1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's funny...when it comes to the actual contract and numbers, Shattenkirk won't be a good deal.

This is true....but in very many ways it isn't true. 

We paid Marc Savard 6 million on the cap this year. If We pay Shatty 8m/y when he's probably only worth 5m/y... are we really going to even notice? Do you see us being within 3m of the salary cap in the forseeable future? Maybe we will be eventually, but 'eventually' we won't be paying Lovejoy and 'eventually' we won't be paying Cammalleri. 

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Just now, mfitz804 said:

That's the way of the world now. If you don't give those extra years that you know will not be as good because of age related decline, someone else will and you won't get the player. That's why guys like Oshie get an 8 year extension. 

Its the cost of doing business. 

Sure, agree completely, but the Devils could've jumped in and signed a UFA to one of those bad contracts last year or the year before...but when you're taking a step back and starting almost from scratch, you won't do that...you'll go more with bargain signings and stopgap signings and very cautious signings until you feel like you're really ready to start competing again.  That's why I like the idea of Shattenkirk at this moment...because of what his signing will represent.  It doesn't hurt that he should have multiple prime years left, and should fill a need quite nicely...and like I said, will hopefully lead to other big moves.

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51 minutes ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

This is true....but in very many ways it isn't true. 

We paid Marc Savard 6 million on the cap this year. If We pay Shatty 8m/y when he's probably only worth 5m/y... are we really going to even notice? Do you see us being within 3m of the salary cap in the forseeable future? Maybe we will be eventually, but 'eventually' we won't be paying Lovejoy and 'eventually' we won't be paying Cammalleri. 

Agreed. Every time I hear someone talk about how we have someone on a "bad contract" I laugh. We actually took on someone else's injured player because we had so much room. 

Should we use all that room to sign a bunch of stud free agents? Sure, I would be on board with that. But in the absence of that, and when you are relying on "youth" which generally speaking has a cheaper price tag, paying Shattenkirk $8m a year instead of $5m is kind of an irrelevancy. 

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8 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed. Every time I hear someone talk about how we have someone on a "bad contract" I laugh. We actually took on someone else's injured player because we had so much room. 

Should we use all that room to sign a bunch of stud free agents? Sure, I would be on board with that. But in the absence of that, and when you are relying on "youth" which generally speaking has a cheaper price tag, paying Shattenkirk $8m a year instead of $5m is kind of an irrelevancy. 

Just about EVERY team is going to have some bad contracts...unless you have an endless pipeline of young and cheap players you can keep bringing up as replacements for playing seeking riches elsewhere, which no team does. 

My point wasn't not to sign Shattenkirk because he'll be overpaid...more addressing that some people will undoubtedly say "Why do we want to sign Player X to a bad contract?", almost as a defensive mechanism.  You are right, with the current state of the Devils cap (give Shero credit there for not going for quick fixes and being patient), Shattenkirk's cap hit shouldn't be much of an issue.    

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Just about EVERY team is going to have some bad contracts...unless you have an endless pipeline of young and cheap players you can keep bringing up as replacements for playing seeking riches elsewhere, which no team does. 

My point wasn't not to sign Shattenkirk because he'll be overpaid...more addressing that some people will undoubtedly say "Why do we want to sign Player X to a bad contract?", almost as a defensive mechanism.  You are right, with the current state of the Devils cap (give Shero credit there for not going for quick fixes and being patient), Shattenkirk's cap hit shouldn't be much of an issue.    

The point I guess I was making is, if you give a guy an 8 year deal and you get 5 good years and 3 crap years, its not necessarily a bad contract. Its what you had to do to get the 5 good years instead of the Rangers getting them.

If you isolate just the 3 bad years, its easy to say it was a bad contract, but it doesn't work that way. Not in today's world. You can't say "well gee, he'll only be good until he's 35, so I will only give him a contract until he's 35" when 10 other teams will give him a deal until he's 38. 

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7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

The point I guess I was making is, if you give a guy an 8 year deal and you get 5 good years and 3 crap years, its not necessarily a bad contract. Its what you had to do to get the 5 good years instead of the Rangers getting them.

If you isolate just the 3 bad years, its easy to say it was a bad contract, but it doesn't work that way. Not in today's world. You can't say "well gee, he'll only be good until he's 35, so I will only give him a contract until he's 35" when 10 other teams will give him a deal until he's 38. 

It won't even be just the years...does Shattenkirk really seem like an $8 million or so per year player to you?  Not to me...but as we all know, this is how it goes in UFA, especially for the upper-tier players...and in this case, the Devils are going to have to bowl him over in that "We really really REALLY want you" kind of way...the Devils are clearly not a "Take a discount because I want to play there so badly" kind of team at the moment.  But yeah, if we got four or five good years (and one not-awful one), we'll all happily sign up for it.  And like others have noted, with all of the cap room the Devils have, they can overpay in both cash and term and it won't be a problem. 

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11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It won't even be just the years...does Shattenkirk really seem like an $8 million or so per year player to you?  Not to me...but as we all know, this is how it goes in UFA, especially for the upper-tier players...and in this case, the Devils are going to have to bowl him over in that "We really really REALLY want you" kind of way...the Devils are clearly not a "Take a discount because I want to play there so badly" kind of team at the moment.  But yeah, if we got four or five good years (and one not-awful one), we'll all happily sign up for it.  And like others have noted, with all of the cap room the Devils have, they can overpay in both cash and term and it won't be a problem. 

As you intimated, since there's probably 3-4 other teams that will pay him $8 million, I guess he's an $8 million player. I could say he's worth $5m or $6m, but he can easily get $8m, then its $8m. 

Its true of anything, the "value" is what the market will bear. If you are buying a house and you see one and you think its worth $500k, but 3 other people are putting in bids of $600k, guess what...the house is now worth $600k. You can take your $500k and shove it because you ain't getting that house. 

 

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