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3 hours ago, Chuck the Duck said:

And weren't the Kings down 0-3 in their first series against SJ that playoffs?  That 2014 team was lucky to get out of the first round, and weren't nearly as dominant in any series as they were during their run in 2012. 

The crazy thing is the Devils came a crossbar from Kovy at the end of regulation in Game 2 and/or a missed wide-open net from Fayne in Game 1 from at least playing at home in Game 7 vs. the Kings in 2012.  But Quick was unreal in those playoffs and that series.  He deserved the Conn Smythe and was the biggest reason that they beat us that year. 

Those two losses were heartbreaking.

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Based on how everyone in hockey told us the lead up to the expansion draft was going to be one of the craziest offseason events we've ever witnessed, sure it's disappointing that we're not at least si

Two days ago, this was a pathetic draft class that we wanted no part of other than Shattenkirk. Now, the sky is falling because we lost out on him since he's going to realize his 15 year old wet dream

So... Detroit... 

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6 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

As much as I hate the Rangers, if I thought they were on the cusp of something big, I could be partial and admit it.  But Shattenkirk is really minimizing Lundqvist's age and possible (soon to be inevitable) decline...Lundqvist has 742 career regular season games under his belt, along with 128 playoff games...over his last six seasons, he's averaged a tick over 71 GP per season.  And he's getting paid handsomely over the next four seasons, which makes it a lot harder to bail on him if he's struggling; also, if he gets hurt or slumps badly enough, there's no Talbot or Raanta to turn to anymore...it's now Pavalec...he of the 39 starts and .901 save% the past two years.  Raanta was at .921 as a Ranger (44 starts), and Talbot .931 (53 starts over the prior 2 seasons).  Ranger fans got VERY spoiled by the level of play from their backups...they got, on average, about 24 starts of mostly stellar play from those two...they went 60-29-9 in their games.  No one can tell me that their goaltending won't see a serious downgrade from the previous four seasons. 

Maybe Lundqvist can somehow buck the odds and come close to what he was at his peak, but nothing really suggests that the Rangers should count on that.  They should continue to be a playoff team for the foreseeable future, but it's hard to see them doing much more than getting to the second round now.  They're kind of on the other side of the mountain now...just feels like they had their shot to win their Cup and simply couldn't do it. 

some good points. That is just talk from Shattenkirk, he went there because that was his childhood dream not because their future is so bright. They are looking okay but nobody thinks they are 'on the cusp of something big'.

Mind you the Rangers probably think two cups within a 54 year span is something big.  

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I did not think they were beating the Kings in 2012 had they beaten the Devils.  The Kings were a machine that year.  People like to downplay that team because they were an 8th seed.  They were barely 500 around Xmas, then Sutter took over and they were something like 26-10 with a few SO/OT losses as well.  As far as the Rangers now, barring a ridiculous turn around, their window has been slammed shut.  Then again, if in the summer of 2015 you said the Pens would win the next 2 Cups, people would have laughed at you.  Their change started last March.  I remember my Pens fan brother saying he hoped if they get into the play-offs they get in as a cross-over WC as he didn't think they stood a chance against anyone in the Metro.  The kids they brought up from the AHL turned out to be real good and Crosby and Malkin got the support they needed.  Don't see anyone like that in the Rangers system yet.  Think the Rangers just have to wait it out until Shestyrkin's contract is up in the KHL in 2 years as I think he is the heir apparent to Lundqvist.  The question with them will be if they ever get the skaters needed to win it all.  Right now, they don't have them, imo.

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15 hours ago, Chuck the Duck said:

And weren't the Kings down 0-3 in their first series against SJ that playoffs?  That 2014 team was lucky to get out of the first round, and weren't nearly as dominant in any series as they were during their run in 2012. 

The crazy thing is the Devils came a crossbar from Kovy at the end of regulation in Game 2 and/or a missed wide-open net from Fayne in Game 1 from at least playing at home in Game 7 vs. the Kings in 2012.  But Quick was unreal in those playoffs and that series.  He deserved the Conn Smythe and was the biggest reason that they beat us that year. 

They were, but then blew them out in the next 4.  Were also up 3-1 to Chicago, blew games 5 and 6 and were down 2-0 or 3-0 early in game 7 before rallying and winning in OT on what I thought was a weak goal.

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43 minutes ago, Matteau#32 said:

I did not think they were beating the Kings in 2012 had they beaten the Devils.  The Kings were a machine that year.  People like to downplay that team because they were an 8th seed.  They were barely 500 around Xmas, then Sutter took over and they were something like 26-10 with a few SO/OT losses as well.  As far as the Rangers now, barring a ridiculous turn around, their window has been slammed shut.  Then again, if in the summer of 2015 you said the Pens would win the next 2 Cups, people would have laughed at you.  Their change started last March.  I remember my Pens fan brother saying he hoped if they get into the play-offs they get in as a cross-over WC as he didn't think they stood a chance against anyone in the Metro.  The kids they brought up from the AHL turned out to be real good and Crosby and Malkin got the support they needed.  Don't see anyone like that in the Rangers system yet.  Think the Rangers just have to wait it out until Shestyrkin's contract is up in the KHL in 2 years as I think he is the heir apparent to Lundqvist.  The question with them will be if they ever get the skaters needed to win it all.  Right now, they don't have them, imo.

Don't forget the Jack Johnson (and a conditional 1st) for Jeff Carter trade.  That made the Kings a better team than they'd been for much of that season.  They were clearly better than that 8th seed would lead people to believe. 

As for the Penguins...doesn't hurt when you can add Phil Kessel, who both NEVER EVER misses a game (unlike Crosby and Malkin), and somehow INCREASES his offensive production for you come playoff time.  45 points in 49 playoff games in two seasons with Pitt.  He's been nothing but reliable and productive for the Penguins.  

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1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

As for the Penguins...doesn't hurt when you can add Phil Kessel, who both NEVER EVER misses a game (unlike Crosby and Malkin), and somehow INCREASES his offensive production for you come playoff time.  45 points in 49 playoff games in two seasons with Pitt.  He's been nothing but reliable and productive for the Penguins.  

Meh but let's be real, the guy is uncoachable! /TorontoMedia

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Just now, CommonDreads said:

Meh but let's be real, the guy is uncoachable! /TorontoMedia

You wonder if going to a team where he was going to be more of a very good complementary piece helped him.  He very well could've been a PITA in Toronto, but simply grew up and is in a place that's perfect for him. 

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26 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

You wonder if going to a team where he was going to be more of a very good complementary piece helped him.  He very well could've been a PITA in Toronto, but simply grew up and is in a place that's perfect for him. 

A lot of athletes play better when they don't have to be "the guy". Kessel went from being the guy who had to answer for everything in Toronto to just being a part of a good team in Pittsburgh. A lot of the pressure came off. You can tell by his little tantrums and complaining on the bench he's still hasn't matured. I remember watching a special on him and Zach Bogosian(sp) talked about how his ultra competitiveness led him to throw fits after losing in ping pong or something. 

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1 hour ago, NJDevils1214 said:

A lot of athletes play better when they don't have to be "the guy". Kessel went from being the guy who had to answer for everything in Toronto to just being a part of a good team in Pittsburgh. A lot of the pressure came off. You can tell by his little tantrums and complaining on the bench he's still hasn't matured. I remember watching a special on him and Zach Bogosian(sp) talked about how his ultra competitiveness led him to throw fits after losing in ping pong or something. 

I think that is exactly it.  Another guy like that imo is Nash.  If he went to a team like Washington or Anaheim where he can play 2nd/3rd/4th fiddle, he would be MUCH more effective.  Even if his production dropped a little due to decreased ice time or decreased PP time, it wouldn't be that drastic when you look at the numbers at the end of the season.  For the adv stats guys his corsi per 60 and his goals per 60 or whatever they call it now, would likely increase.

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Since it's pretty quiet, anyone have any thoughts about pursuing Will Butcher after Aug 15?  Probably a tough sell but it sounds like he's not going to sign with Colorado - if this bit is true than I understand why (from the Denver Post): 

Near the end of Butcher’s junior season a year ago, the Avalanche told Butcher’s “family adviser” the team was not interested in signing the 5-foot-10, 190-pound defenseman at any point. But that attitude toward Butcher was believed to have emanated from then-coach Patrick Roy, who was also the Avs’ vice president.

Snippet of info from a different article: 

Butcher is a left-handed, young, fast, puck-moving, offensive defenseman.

Aside from winning the Hobey Baker this past season, he was also awarded the Best Offensive Defenseman award and the Player of the Year award. Butcher was awarded the captaincy before the ‘16-’17 season after being an assistant captain for his first 3 years.

Previously, he played for the US National Team, the Dubuque Fighting Saints of the USHL, and the Madison Capitals for both the U16 league, and the U18 league. And like he did at Denver, he put up very solid numbers.

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40 minutes ago, LittleBallofHate said:

Since it's pretty quiet, anyone have any thoughts about pursuing Will Butcher after Aug 15?  Probably a tough sell but it sounds like he's not going to sign with Colorado - if this bit is true than I understand why (from the Denver Post): 

Near the end of Butcher’s junior season a year ago, the Avalanche told Butcher’s “family adviser” the team was not interested in signing the 5-foot-10, 190-pound defenseman at any point. But that attitude toward Butcher was believed to have emanated from then-coach Patrick Roy, who was also the Avs’ vice president.

Snippet of info from a different article: 

Butcher is a left-handed, young, fast, puck-moving, offensive defenseman.

Aside from winning the Hobey Baker this past season, he was also awarded the Best Offensive Defenseman award and the Player of the Year award. Butcher was awarded the captaincy before the ‘16-’17 season after being an assistant captain for his first 3 years.

Previously, he played for the US National Team, the Dubuque Fighting Saints of the USHL, and the Madison Capitals for both the U16 league, and the U18 league. And like he did at Denver, he put up very solid numbers.

Would not be surprised if the Devils talk to him, with the lack of depth at D they could sell him on making the team opening night

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So it's almost August, and we haven't made anymore moves on defense.  I think most people assumed there was another trade or signing coming, possibly involving Henrique, since, and I can't believe I'm gonna say this, it seems like we have an influx of forwards at the moment, but I'm not so sure that's gonna happen now. There's still time, but something tells me we're going to roll into training camp and pre-season with our D corp as-is.  I think with no buyers for Lovejoy, and the addition of Mueller, and the assumption that Schneider will play better this year, that Shero is banking on the chances that our perceived-improved forwards will be able to put up more goals this year than we let in.  

What's everyone else think?  Something else still to come?

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21 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

So it's almost August, and we haven't made anymore moves on defense.  I think most people assumed there was another trade or signing coming, possibly involving Henrique, since, and I can't believe I'm gonna say this, it seems like we have an influx of forwards at the moment, but I'm not so sure that's gonna happen now. There's still time, but something tells me we're going to roll into training camp and pre-season with our D corp as-is.  I think with no buyers for Lovejoy, and the addition of Mueller, and the assumption that Schneider will play better this year, that Shero is banking on the chances that our perceived-improved forwards will be able to put up more goals this year than we let in.  

What's everyone else think?  Something else still to come?

I actually agree with you. ;)

It's feeling that way, if we were going to make any kind of big move on D, I feel like it would have been made already. But maybe not, training camp is coming. Maybe some young guns (on other teams) impress and said teams will decide they need to make a place for them, making some higher paid but otherwise good quality guys expendable. We can hope, anyway.

I'd feel much better with one really solid "semi-veteran" (re: not too old, sorry Andy) on the blue line. 

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If you want tea leaves to read on Henrique, he does appear to have been more active on social media lately and specifically in his capacity as a member of the Devils.  So maybe whatever trade talk there might have been had died down, especially when you consider that Anaheim seems to have gotten what it wanted out of expansion, i.e. not losing Vatanen. 

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15 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

So it's almost August, and we haven't made anymore moves on defense.  I think most people assumed there was another trade or signing coming, possibly involving Henrique, since, and I can't believe I'm gonna say this, it seems like we have an influx of forwards at the moment, but I'm not so sure that's gonna happen now. There's still time, but something tells me we're going to roll into training camp and pre-season with our D corp as-is.  I think with no buyers for Lovejoy, and the addition of Mueller, and the assumption that Schneider will play better this year, that Shero is banking on the chances that our perceived-improved forwards will be able to put up more goals this year than we let in.  

What's everyone else think?  Something else still to come?

I say no...not right now.  I think the Devils go into the regular season with Greene, Severson, Santini, Moore, Killjoy, Prout, and Mueller.  The hope will be that Severson and Santini improve and mature, Killjoy bounces back, Greene isn't in decline, and that Mueller turns out to be a nice find.  I think Prout and Moore are what they are...and obviously there's going to be healthy scratches and injuries and guys who will get more playing time.  Three of these players are babies in "D-years":  Mueller and Santini are entering their age 22 seasons, and Severson will be 23 on Opening Day.  Moore is 26 (will be 27 in November), Prout is 27.  It's far from a "sure thing" group, no question, but there is youth here...overall, it's not a bunch of declining 30-somethings. 

Does this scare me?  Yeah, a bit.  Even though five of these guys are well under 30, this is not a group that excites.  None of them are a guarantee to be any better than they are right now.   

If this group is really looking bad 25-30 games into the season, I do think Shero will try to do something...not something huge, but I think he'll bring another body in. 

Just now, mfitz804 said:

 

I'd feel much better with one really solid "semi-veteran" (re: not too old, sorry Andy) on the blue line. 

Killjoy is that guy, technically (33 years old, just over 5 seasons' worth of reg season games under his belt).  No, doesn't thrill me either, but he's still under contract for two more seasons, so the Devils are going to treat last season as one bad year, and give him a legit shot to put 2016-17 behind him. 

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8 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Killjoy is that guy, technically (33 years old, just over 5 seasons' worth of reg season games under his belt).  No, doesn't thrill me either, but he's still under contract for two more seasons, so the Devils are going to treat last season as one bad year, and give him a legit shot to put 2016-17 behind him. 

I don't consider him "solid". He plays defense more like a liquid or gas. :)

But yes, if he bounces back, he could be that guy. 

19 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If you want tea leaves to read on Henrique, he does appear to have been more active on social media lately and specifically in his capacity as a member of the Devils.  So maybe whatever trade talk there might have been had died down, especially when you consider that Anaheim seems to have gotten what it wanted out of expansion, i.e. not losing Vatanen. 

Was there ever any "real" talk about Henrique being moved? I don't follow most media, but most of the times it was mentioned in this forum it wasn't really attributed to any source. More just talking out of our asses. 

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

 

Was there ever any "real" talk about Henrique being moved? I don't follow most media, but most of the times it was mentioned in this forum it wasn't really attributed to any source. More just talking out of our asses. 

Nothing from definitive from any of the brand name people.  It was based more on comments at the end of the season from Shero that can be reasonably interpreted to have been been aimed at Henrique and that from the end of the season through a few weeks ago he was pretty quiet on social media, especially as it relates to the Devils, since he's generally fairly active in that regard.  So it's speculation but not totally baseless speculation. 

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11 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I don't consider him "solid". He plays defense more like a liquid or gas. :)

But yes, if he bounces back, he could be that guy. 

States of matter, nice!

Oh I agree completely, he scares the hell out of me...but when healthy, he was pretty solid in the past.  But he was a such a tough watch last year...I could see us all calling for his head less than 10 games into the season.

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5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

States of matter, nice!

Oh I agree completely, he scares the hell out of me...but when healthy, he was pretty solid in the past.  But he was a such a touch watch last year...I could see us all calling for his head less than 10 games into the season.

I was not upset when they got him, he wasn't a bad player in Pittsburgh. But last year he sh!t the bed. Here's hoping he can be better this year, I'd love to see it. 

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I was not upset when they got him, he wasn't a bad player in Pittsburgh. But last year he sh!t the bed. Here's hoping he can be better this year, I'd love to see it. 

He wasn't a bad player in Pittsburgh because he was on the third pair- Lovejoy is fine in that role. It's when you rely on him to play top 4 minutes against better opposition where you run into problems.


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57 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I actually agree with you. ;)

It's feeling that way, if we were going to make any kind of big move on D, I feel like it would have been made already. But maybe not, training camp is coming. Maybe some young guns (on other teams) impress and said teams will decide they need to make a place for them, making some higher paid but otherwise good quality guys expendable. We can hope, anyway.

I'd feel much better with one really solid "semi-veteran" (re: not too old, sorry Andy) on the blue line. 

Haha, you mother f*cker. Just had the same reply, wink face and all, in the other thread lol.

 

46 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I say no...not right now.  I think the Devils go into the regular season with Greene, Severson, Santini, Moore, Killjoy, Prout, and Mueller.  The hope will be that Severson and Santini improve and mature, Killjoy bounces back, Greene isn't in decline, and that Mueller turns out to be a nice find.  I think Prout and Moore are what they are...and obviously there's going to be healthy scratches and injuries and guys who will get more playing time.  Three of these players are babies in "D-years":  Mueller and Santini are entering their age 22 seasons, and Severson will be 23 on Opening Day.  Moore is 26 (will be 27 in November), Prout is 27.  It's far from a "sure thing" group, no question, but there is youth here...overall, it's not a bunch of declining 30-somethings. 

Does this scare me?  Yeah, a bit.  Even though five of these guys are well under 30, this is not a group that excites.  None of them are a guarantee to be any better than they are right now.   

If this group is really looking bad 25-30 games into the season, I do think Shero will try to do something...not something huge, but I think he'll bring another body in. 

Killjoy is that guy, technically (33 years old, just over 5 seasons' worth of reg season games under his belt).  No, doesn't thrill me either, but he's still under contract for two more seasons, so the Devils are going to treat last season as one bad year, and give him a legit shot to put 2016-17 behind him. 

I'm not terribly scared by this group either, I think I just feel the same way as fitz -- would be more comfortable if we had another good veteran back there.  And no, I don't think Killjoy is that guy.  He's a veteran, but not a good one lol.  I'd even take a slow but still reliable stay at home d-man over Lovejoy.  Someone like a Markov type.  He's still available, I'd rather sign him and just let Lovejoy walk.  We have the money.

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