NFL Week 4

[NJDevs4978]

Hopefully there won't be AS much anthem debate this week although I guess we'll see what happens in Packers-Bears with Aaron Rodgers calling for the crowd to lock arms during the anthem.  

Of course if we weren't talking about the anthem we'd be talking even more about freaking Odell Beckham Jr.  I mean the Giants are annoying ME and I'm not even a Giants fan   How do you if you're Ben McAdoo, one week after you acted like BMOC calling out Eli for a delay of game penalty go and hide under the couch this week when Beckham pulls his act, and then doubles down and says he'd do it again?!  I get it, Eli's not a baby, they're not afraid of ripping him in public and the other guy's somehow the most important player in the world despite always going 6-10 and 7-9 other than last year where they got bounced out of the playoffs in five minutes, but it's still horrible optics.

Edited September 28, 2017 by NJDevs4978

[Daniel]

Sticking to my guns and will not watch the NFL this week.  Reading a great book on the almost miraculous defense Finland put up against the Soviet Union in 1939, which will be a much better way to spend my Sunday.  I will still keep track of my fantasy team though.

['7']

21 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Sticking to my guns and will not watch the NFL this week.  Reading a great book on the almost miraculous defense Finland put up against the Soviet Union in 1939, which will be a much better way to spend my Sunday.  I will still keep track of my fantasy team though.

And you're not the only one. Plenty of people at my office are doing the same. Actually more than I thought.

['7']

2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Hopefully there won't be AS much anthem debate this week although I guess we'll see what happens in Packers-Bears with Aaron Rodgers calling for the crowd to lock arms during the anthem.  

Of course if we weren't talking about the anthem we'd be talking even more about freaking Odell Beckham Jr.  I mean the Giants are annoying ME and I'm not even a Giants fan   How do you if you're Ben McAdoo, one week after you acted like BMOC calling out Eli for a delay of game penalty go and hide under the couch this week when Beckham pulls his act, and then doubles down and says he'd do it again?!  I get it, Eli's not a baby, they're not afraid of ripping him in public and the other guy's somehow the most important player in the world despite always going 6-10 and 7-9 other than last year where they got bounced out of the playoffs in five minutes, but it's still horrible optics.

Beckham is such a strange bird. His talent is off the charts, but that stupid 1 handed catch with his sticky gloves inflated his his ego to goodyear blimp proportions. He was hyped before that, but that made him legend overnight, worshiped like some sort of unstoppable revolutionary force in wide receiving.

The Giants have always sold this image of them being this elite, lordly, all business, old school NFL franchise who don't put up with this. They will put up with him like they did with LT and Strahans yapping and Burress and Shockey for far too long. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Beckham just seems to be a guy that was like Manny Ramirez in baseball. Don't even try. You can't change him, he's too weird. He'll eventually totally poison that locker room, you just hope he hands you a Lombardi trophy before it happens.

 

[Daniel]

11 minutes ago, '7' said:

Beckham is such a strange bird. His talent is off the charts, but that stupid 1 handed catch with his sticky gloves inflated his his ego to goodyear blimp proportions. He was hyped before that, but that made him legend overnight, worshiped like some sort of unstoppable revolutionary force in wide receiving.

The Giants have always sold this image of them being this elite, lordly, all business, old school NFL franchise who don't put up with this. They will put up with him like they did with LT and Strahans yapping and Burress and Shockey for far too long. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Beckham just seems to be a guy that was like Manny Ramirez in baseball. Don't even try. You can't change him, he's too weird. He'll eventually totally poison that locker room, you just hope he hands you a Lombardi trophy before it happens.

 

Manny was sort of like a dumb blonde and a bit quirky.  Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he's like Pedro Guerrero, who beat a drug dealing rap by convincing the jury that he was so stupid (IQ of around 75) that he couldn't have possibly been part of sophisticated drug ring.

Beckham may or may not be a really stupid person (although I suspect that he is) but his act doesn't have a "strangeness" to it.  He might possibly be one of the most egotistical people that is currently alive.  At the same time, there's kind of a sociopathic quality to him, or maybe it's a complete lack of self awareness.  He wants to be the highest paid player in the sport eventually, but he repeatedly acts like a complete clown in full view of everyone.  It's really bad, even by clown standards.  And, like a misbehaving child, he just can't seem to help himself.  He's the antonym of class.

If I were the Giants, I would not waste all that cap space on him.  Really, I wouldn't spend that much on a receiver that isn't Jerry Rice in his prime.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Yeah eventually you gotta think Beckham is going to be way more trouble than he's worth (if he's not already).  You can't be that annoying and me-me-me and come up as small as he did in the game against Green Bay. 

Always interesting to see how close Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers have been statistically over a very similar sample of games (Rodgers' begins when he became a full-time starter...Brady lost almost all of 2008 to an ACL tear, so I start his sample in 2007, so the number of GP is closer):

 

Rodgers (2008-2017):  139 GP, 93-46 W-L Record, 4758 Attempts, 3106 Completions, 65.3 Comp%, 37644 Yds, 306 TD (6.4 TD%), 74 INT (1.6 INT%), 7.9 Yds Per Attempt, 270.8 Yds Per Game, 104.4 QB Rate

Per 16 GP:  358 Completions, 548 Attempts, 4333 yards, 35 TD, 9 INT

 

Brady (2007-2017):  144 GP, 115-29 W-L Record, 5270 Attempts, 3419 Completions, 64.9 Comp%, 41110 Yds, 317 TD (6.0 TD%), 74 INT (1.4 INT%), 7.8 Yds Per Attempt, 285.5 Yds Per Game, 102.9 QB Rate

Per 16 GP:  380 Completions, 586 Attempts, 4568 yards, 35 TD, 8 INT

 

 

[CRASHER]

yeah Odell's talents are not worth putting up with all the nonsense he does, I'd be LIVID if Jerry overpaid for him (I can't see many teams being willing to, and having the cap space for it, maybe San Fran if they get a QB next year, or Houston? you'd need a young QB locked into his rookie deal and I don't know if I'd want his garbage screwing with my young QB's mindset), it will be interesting to see if he goes free agent (not like the Giants have won a thing since he's been there either)

it's amazing A-Rod's only been to one Super Bowl, that's totally on management around him

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

31 minutes ago, CRASHER said:

yeah Odell's talents are not worth putting up with all the nonsense he does, I'd be LIVID if Jerry overpaid for him (I can't see many teams being willing to, and having the cap space for it, maybe San Fran if they get a QB next year, or Houston? you'd need a young QB locked into his rookie deal and I don't know if I'd want his garbage screwing with my young QB's mindset), it will be interesting to see if he goes free agent (not like the Giants have won a thing since he's been there either)

it's amazing A-Rod's only been to one Super Bowl, that's totally on management around him

Yeah the Packers haven't always done right by Rodgers for sure. 

[Daniel]

The Giants would obviously want to trade OBJ if he's still demanding a $20 million deal, or whatever it is.  Wonder if Beckham for Clowney straight up would work?

[MadDog2020]

Beckham is such a strange bird. His talent is off the charts, but that stupid 1 handed catch with his sticky gloves inflated his his ego to goodyear blimp proportions. He was hyped before that, but that made him legend overnight, worshiped like some sort of unstoppable revolutionary force in wide receiving.
The Giants have always sold this image of them being this elite, lordly, all business, old school NFL franchise who don't put up with this. They will put up with him like they did with LT and Strahans yapping and Burress and Shockey for far too long. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Beckham just seems to be a guy that was like Manny Ramirez in baseball. Don't even try. You can't change him, he's too weird. He'll eventually totally poison that locker room, you just hope he hands you a Lombardi trophy before it happens.
 

McAdoo is a pus*y too. How the hell do you earn respect in the locker room if you're afraid of your best player and won't do anything to discipline him? Dude screams 'Ray Handley' to me.


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[Daniel]

18 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

McAdoo is a pus*y too. How the hell do you earn respect in the locker room if you're afraid of your best player and won't do anything to discipline him? Dude screams 'Ray Handley' to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With guys like Beckham, it's basically if you need to ask, you'll never know.  Other than suspending him and not allowing him into MetLife Stadium, there is nothing the team can do to stop him from doing his antics.  McAdoo can give him a tongue lashing in the locker room, call him out a press conference or on Francessa's show, or whatever, it won't work.  He'll just continue acting like a clown, because that's what he is.  He really just doesn't think there's anything wrong with what he's doing, and he doesn't get embarrassed by it. 

I can see two people who might get him to cut it out, for two totally different reasons.  The first guy would be Larry Fitzgerald, if you brought him in either as a coach if he decides to retire after this season, or you sign him as a player/mentor type.  He's a future hall of famer, and oozes class, and maybe, just maybe Beckham will kind of realize that there's a better way to go about things in life by observing how Fitzy does things on a regular basis.

The second guy, and this is really weird would actually be Jerry Jones.  He's the kind of guy who, to me, anyway will tell him, go live your life and do whatever you want off the field, and we'll do our best to make sure that you won't get in trouble and we'll have your back even if you really fvck up.  In return, don't embarrass us publicly by acting like a clown on the field. 

[SS#4-Life]

it would be nice if we could get back to talking about football again this week without standing . k neeling nonsense

['7']

8 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah eventually you gotta think Beckham is going to be way more trouble than he's worth (if he's not already).  You can't be that annoying and me-me-me and come up as small as he did in the game against Green Bay. 

Always interesting to see how close Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers have been statistically over a very similar sample of games (Rodgers' begins when he became a full-time starter...Brady lost almost all of 2008 to an ACL tear, so I start his sample in 2007, so the number of GP is closer):

 

Rodgers (2008-2017):  139 GP, 93-46 W-L Record, 4758 Attempts, 3106 Completions, 65.3 Comp%, 37644 Yds, 306 TD (6.4 TD%), 74 INT (1.6 INT%), 7.9 Yds Per Attempt, 270.8 Yds Per Game, 104.4 QB Rate

Per 16 GP:  358 Completions, 548 Attempts, 4333 yards, 35 TD, 9 INT

 

Brady (2007-2017):  144 GP, 115-29 W-L Record, 5270 Attempts, 3419 Completions, 64.9 Comp%, 41110 Yds, 317 TD (6.0 TD%), 74 INT (1.4 INT%), 7.8 Yds Per Attempt, 285.5 Yds Per Game, 102.9 QB Rate

Per 16 GP:  380 Completions, 586 Attempts, 4568 yards, 35 TD, 8 INT

 

 

 

 

They're both cut from the same cloth when it comes to the cerebral aspects of the game and preparation. But it's not a sure bet that if you replace Brady with Rodgers the Patriots would have the same results, or he'd have the same relationship with Belichick and Kraft and just have it click in New England. It doesn't work that way in football, it's like if you have a great band and you replace your legendary lead guitarist with another legendary lead guitarist. Doesn't mean everything will click.

A lot of times though when I'm watching Rodgers pull out his heroics it looks similar to Brady only not on a Super Bowl scale...but the ridiculous hailmary connections and how it always looks like he's cornered to end the game and suddenly worms out of it, perfect 4th down completion, and the Packers win. He's been doing that to the NFC North for years.

[NJDevs4978]

While you're right on paper, I think BB would have made it work with Rodgers, hell he went 11-5 with Cassel and 3-1 with Garropolo and Brisset last year.  If I had to bet I'd say Rodgers wins every SB Brady did - except last year. That comeback was so preposterous I doubt anyone else could have managed that.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

25 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

While you're right on paper, I think BB would have made it work with Rodgers, hell he went 11-5 with Cassel and 3-1 with Garropolo and Brisset last year.  If I had to bet I'd say Rodgers wins every SB Brady did - except last year. That comeback was so preposterous I doubt anyone else could have managed that.

Re:  that comeback...Brady did what he had to and did a hell of a job, but like any comeback of that magnitude, you need a perfect storm of events...Atlanta's offensive playcalling was just beyond stupid once they were up by 25 points.  They didn't even attempt to work the clock, and of course, the defense (which on its own was actually outscoring the Pats' O 7-3 well into the second half) finally ran out of gas.  Those poor guys had absolutely nothing left...they were on the field for about 100 plays IIRC.

I wasn't trying to make any cases about one being exchangeable for the other...it was more about how remarkably similar their numbers are over a given period of time.  I agree with '7' that Brady just seemed like the right guy at the right time in the right place (he and Pats just work), but it's not like you can go wrong with either QB. 

['7']

Can't say I have the best feeling about the Jaguars game tomorrow. They seem to be turning the corner for real finally. Marrone may be a good coach (certainly don't think he is any worse than average) and they finally have accumulated some legitimate talent on D. Of course Bortles can always crap the bed. But I see us having a tough time moving the ball agains them. And with Wilkerson nursing an injury now Fournette and Ivory could have a field day crushing the interior of our line.

Edited October 1, 2017 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

Houston seriously won 57-14?!  Geez we're getting into RGIII rookie sensation type stuff with Watson now.

And what the hell is Buffalo doing at 3-1, weren't they supposed to be tanking too?

Edited October 1, 2017 by NJDevs4978

['7']

That backwards pass returned for a TD when the Jets were about to ice that game was the Jetsiest thing to happen. And of course the subsequent INT in our own territory. This was a signed, sealed, and delivered SOJ loss.

And then it wasn't. I'm totally at a loss for words at how we didn't lose this game. I love what I see out of Elijah McGuire. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Stephen Gilmore is in the early running for biggest bust of 2017.  He's having a brutal time of it so far with the Patriots.  Pats still have time to right this, but unlike several past Puppet Ds, it looks like even Brady won't be able to overcome this bunch on the near-weekly basis everyone's used to seeing.  They're going to give up at least 400 points this season.

['7']

3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Stephen Gilmore is in the early running for biggest bust of 2017.  He's having a brutal time of it so far with the Patriots.  Pats still have time to right this, but unlike several past Puppet Ds, it looks like even Brady won't be able to overcome this bunch on the near-weekly basis everyone's used to seeing.  They're going to give up at least 400 points this season.

Brady has done it before in years the division was better, he's got to do it this year with 3 not good teams. The Jets are a little better than predicted but they're still smoke and mirrors and are just playing fast and loose, I think everybody knows the bottom is falling out eventually. Nobody is worried about Tyrod and the Bills and they'll be exposed soon enough. They don't have the playmakers. Miami tried the Cutler thing to salvage their season...doesn't seem to be working. Patriots have no reason to be this bad defensively as the talent level way exceeds what we've seen on the field. I think losing Ninkovich really hurts, but he was getting older and gave them everything, and you can't expect a guy to be around forever. I think maybe Belichick expected more out of David Harris but he's running on E at this point. Still I don't see them losing a game in the division because none of the rest has the talent to challenge them.

[NJDevs4978]

The earth and heavens would have to open up for the Pats not to win the division.  Even if they went 9-7 they'd likely win the division unless the Bills are a wildcat/Pennington Dolphins type team of destiny.

['7']

Just now, NJDevs4978 said:

The earth and heavens would have to open up for the Pats not to win the division.  Even if they went 9-7 they'd likely win the division unless the Bills are a wildcat/Pennington Dolphins type team of destiny.

The entire AFC is underwhelming this year. Raiders now lost Carr and he may start getting the brittle label soon. Don't believe at all in Semian and Denvers O. Chiefs I'm bullish on but I have to see it to believe it with them. 

It's gonna be Pitt/NE again in the AFC Championship game I feel

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Agree with Has in that the Pats likely still win the division, with 10 wins or so.

If they don't get a bye, they're in trouble though, as far as getting to a SB goes.  They need it.

I can't see the D continuing to be THIS bad (they're not giving up 500+ points), and the Pats always seem to get shaky Ds to at least be passable as seasons unfold, but this unit is going to have issues this year.  This team is going to have to play a lot of shootout football this season.

[NJDevs4978]

8 hours ago, '7' said:

The entire AFC is underwhelming this year. Raiders now lost Carr and he may start getting the brittle label soon. Don't believe at all in Semian and Denvers O. Chiefs I'm bullish on but I have to see it to believe it with them. 

It's gonna be Pitt/NE again in the AFC Championship game I feel

There are the 4-0 Chiefs and Alex Smith is actually throwing the ball down field a little more, plus they have more explosive playmakers in Hill and Hunt than they have in the past.  Going to Houston on Sunday night will be a nice barometer for both teams though.  If Houston's defense starts playing up to pedigree and Watson keeps up his level of play they could be a force too.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

12 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

There are the 4-0 Chiefs and Alex Smith is actually throwing the ball down field a little more, plus they have more explosive playmakers in Hill and Hunt than they have in the past.  Going to Houston on Sunday night will be a nice barometer for both teams though.  If Houston's defense starts playing up to pedigree and Watson keeps up his level of play they could be a force too.

It's still early, but provided the Chiefs don't suffer any injuries to key players, this could be their season...they don't seem to have much of a problem against the Pats (though they did lose to the Pats in the playoffs a couple of seasons ago, in Foxborough).  The game to keep an eye on is the Chiefs vs Steelers on 10/15.  If the Chiefs beat Houston this Sunday night and then beat the Steelers, they will be 6-0 and have an excellent opportunity to see the playoffs go through Arrowhead.

I expect the Pats to lose again against the Bucs on Thursday...at which point some people will start (prematurely) celebrating the demise of a dynasty.  I think the fact that they're playing a Thursday night game is a good thing, in that they will have extra time to work on that defense before the next game.  The "good" news is that should the Pats lose this game, it's another out-of-conference loss (obviously the least costly)...and if they can get their D to stop looking like Swiss cheese, the schedule prior to their bye week isn't so bad...@ the Jets, home against the Falcons (could be another "not as costly" loss), home against the Chargers.  Of course, 5-3 would be great going into their bye, but 4-4 (w/three NFC losses) with two full weeks to work on the D wouldn't be the end of the world...they have five division games left.  10 wins (based off a 6-2 second half) is doable...and of course, beating the Steelers would be huge from a tiebreaker standpoint. This might be one of those seasons where the #2 seed doesn't have that gaudy of a record. 

All the above being said, if the Pats lose to the Jets, then I think it's definitely time to worry.  If you can't beat a team that's not really trying to win in 2017 with extra prep time, you've got serious problems.