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2017-2018 Out of Town Thread


Daniel

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25 minutes ago, Daniel said:

By plausible, I mean that there are goalies every year that play as many games in a season as Marty would, and there's nothing that special about Marty physically that made him uniquely able to handle that playing load year after year.  So  a great goaltender that comes into the league under the right circumstances could do it, even if we can't identify anyone now.  As I said, someone will likely break Marty's and Holtby's season win record.

Regarding point totals, the best scoring forwards in the league are more than 100 points off of what Gretzky did in his best year, and more than fifty points off of what he put up as a thirty year old.   I don't care how good some player we haven't heard yet might be, it is not plausible that there will be anyone who will sniff Gretzky's career totals unless there are several drastic rule changes that favor offense.

The bolded is no longer true.

It was for a while...from the start of the 2005-06 season through the 2011-12 season, there were 30 different 70+ GP seasons for goalies...obviously some of them did this multiple times, including Marty (4X).  There's been exactly four such campaigns since the start of the 2013-14 season (with no one doing managing 70+ than once in that time frame), and for the third time in five seasons, it looks there's a very good chance that NO ONE is going to get there again this season...which would mean just one goalie (Cam Talbot, last season) will have played 70+ in the last three seasons. 

Marty averaged 73 games per season over a 12-year period (877 GP), and only once during that time did he not appear in at least 70 games.  You'll likely never see that kind of use again.   

As for the single-season win record, sure, I could see someone eventually beating that. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The bolded is no longer true.

It was for a while...from the start of the 2005-06 season through the 2011-12 season, there were 30 different 70+ GP seasons for goalies...obviously some of them did this multiple times, including Marty (4X).  There's been exactly four such campaigns since the start of the 2013-14 season (with no one doing managing 70+ than once in that time frame), and for the third time in five seasons, it looks there's a very good chance that NO ONE is going to get there again this season. 

Marty averaged 73 games per season over a 12-year period (877 GP), and only once during that time did he not appear in at least 70 games.  You'll likely never see that kind of use again.   

As for the single-season win record, sure, I could see someone eventually beating that. 

The point is that it goalies still do and will play 70+ games a season even if it happens less often.  And again, there's nothing that much different about how the game is played or what goalies are like physically that makes it makes it virtually impossible for someone down the road play as many games about Marty.  To emphasize, the odds of it happening in our lifetimes are not great, but it's not like we're talking about a manned trip to Mars by next November.

To make the points comparison again, if we were seeing players occasionally break 150 points in a season, then maybe we could talk about Gretzky's record theoretically falling.  But instead, we're at a point where Art Ross winners are consistently at around 100 points, and in one year it was only 87 points.  So I can confidently say that it is more likely that humans will be living on Pluto by the time we're all dead than someone breaking Gretzky's career point record, unless of course there are major major rule changes that basically make the game something different than it is now.

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42 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The point is that it goalies still do and will play 70+ games a season even if it happens less often.  And again, there's nothing that much different about how the game is played or what goalies are like physically that makes it makes it virtually impossible for someone down the road play as many games about Marty.  To emphasize, the odds of it happening in our lifetimes are not great, but it's not like we're talking about a manned trip to Mars by next November.

To make the points comparison again, if we were seeing players occasionally break 150 points in a season, then maybe we could talk about Gretzky's record theoretically falling.  But instead, we're at a point where Art Ross winners are consistently at around 100 points, and in one year it was only 87 points.  So I can confidently say that it is more likely that humans will be living on Pluto by the time we're all dead than someone breaking Gretzky's career point record, unless of course there are major major rule changes that basically make the game something different than it is now.

Why are you bringing Gretzky into this?  I sure didn't.  He played in a unique era where offense was at an all-time high (and a lot of goalies were pretty bad), where he was by far and away the very best at his craft (though Mario was obviously way up there), and yeah, since that era was so different, his points record will likely stand forever (though it will be interesting to see if Ovechkin can keep up his production for 3-4 more years, at which point people might talk about him challenging Gretzky's all-time goals record...still a long way to go for him though).  Marty was among the greats of his era, but like I've said before, if some choose to rank him third behind Hasek and Roy, I won't kill them for it.  They're a hell of a 1A/1B/1C no matter how one chooses to rank them.  But there was no 1B/1C to Gretzky...he was in a class all by himself. 

You're choosing to ignore any points I make for some reason, so be it.  I've pointed out that there's been a severe decline in 70+ games seasons for goalies, to the point where it's almost not happening at all...maybe this is simply something coaches are consciously choosing to get away from, regardless of whether or not a particular player might be capable of doing it if given the chance.  I don't know why you won't acknowledge the many reasons why what Marty did was a unique anomaly (some of which didn't even have much to do with Marty himself) that is extremely unlikely to happen again.  I've already listed the perfect storm of circumstances that it took.  But I'll leave it at this...like I said before, come talk to me when someone is actually getting close.   

Or to look at it one last way:  click this link to look how far ahead Marty is in GP, MP, and wins.  If you take out Marty and start the list with Roy, though he's the leader, he's not nearly as separated from the pack as Marty is.  It's not close...Marty's numbers are 20-25% higher than the next closest guy.  And if that doesn't just how unique his career was, and how hard it will be to duplicate or challenge, I don't know what does:

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-goalies-all-time-games-played-leaders.html

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Why are you bringing Gretzky into this?  I sure didn't.  He played in a unique era where offense was at an all-time high (and a lot of goalies were pretty bad), where he was by far and away the very best at his craft (though Mario was obviously way up there), and yeah, since that era was so different, his points record will likely stand forever (though it will be interesting to see if Ovechkin can keep up his production for 3-4 more years, at which point people might talk about him challenging Gretzky's all-time goals record...still a long way to go for him though).  Marty was among the greats of his era, but like I've said before, if some choose to rank him third behind Hasek and Roy, I won't kill them for it.  They're a hell of a 1A/1B/1C no matter how one chooses to rank them.  But there was no 1B/1C to Gretzky...he was in a class all by himself. 

You're choosing to ignore any points I make for some reason, so be it.  I've pointed out that there's been a severe decline in 70+ games seasons for goalies, to the point where it's almost not happening at all...maybe this is simply something coaches are consciously choosing to get away from, regardless of whether or not a particular player might be capable of doing it if given the chance.  I don't know why you won't acknowledge the many reasons why what Marty did was a unique anomaly (some of which didn't even have much to do with Marty himself) that is extremely unlikely to happen again.  I've already listed the perfect storm of circumstances that it took.  But I'll leave it at this...like I said before, come talk to me when someone is actually getting close.   

Or to look at it one last way:  click this link to look how far ahead Marty is in GP, MP, and wins.  If you take out Marty and start the list with Roy, though he's the leader, he's not nearly as separated from the pack as Marty is.  It's not close...Marty's numbers are 20-25% higher than the next closest guy.  And if that doesn't just how unique his career was, and how hard it will be to duplicate or challenge, I don't know what does:

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-goalies-all-time-games-played-leaders.html

I bring up Gretzky and points just as a contrast to show a record that's really unbreakable, which, yes, has everything to do with the time period in which the numbers were amassed as do most records.  If you wanted, I could talk about complete games or career wins in baseball and the principle would be the same.  Those marks will never ever be broken because pitchers physically cannot pitch that much if they want to be effective against hitters that are immensely stronger and more fit than the hitters that Warren Spahn or Walter Johnson had to face.

So yes, right now no one is close to total wins and games played than Marty. By itself, that gets you into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, no questions asked.  What I'm getting at though is that the skaters are probably not going to get that much stronger and faster to the point that every single goalie that plays from here on out could never ever have 70+ starts a season for a sustained period of time without physically falling apart.  By contrast, even if there were some pitcher with the most rubber arm you could imagine who was inclined to pitch 20 complete games in a season, he would break down pretty quickly if he actually wanted to try and get today's MLB batters out.

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6 hours ago, Bonginator11 said:

Holy crap Boston with the crazy comeback against the Canes

I think the Canes are pretty much done now. Hopefully by tomorrow they will be 8 points out of a spot, and although we have seen how quickly things can change that's a lot of points at this stage of the season. 

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3 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

I think the Canes are pretty much done now. Hopefully by tomorrow they will be 8 points out of a spot, and although we have seen how quickly things can change that's a lot of points at this stage of the season. 

Yeah, I guess you could say that the Canes are now hanging on by the barest of threads, but as far as I'm concerned, blowing last night's game killed them off. 

For the moment (and of course this changes constantly), as far as the Metro goes, you've got two teams battling for first (Caps and Pens...just don't see either one falling off enough for them not to finish 1-2), and then four teams fighting for three open spots.

Flyers:  81 Pts, 12 GR

Blue Jackets:  79 Pts, 12 GR

Devils:  78 Pts, 13 GR

Panthers:  75 Pts, 15 GR

The pessimists among us have probably already pegged the Devils as being the team that falls short, and they could very well do that...they're only 13-17-3 since starting 22-9-5, and we've seen a lot of flaws:  inconsistent secondary scoring, getting pinned for extended time, Cory playing well below expectation levels, the kids looking a bit fatigued, etc.  But I think the one thing that we can't really do is try to make too many assumptions based on each team's schedule "difficulty"...I'm guessing some had the Devils game against the Predators penned in as a loss, and similarly had Florida beating Ottawa...and BTW, Ottawa has now just taken down both the Panthers AND the Lightning, scoring 12 goals in the process.  Fact is this is a parity-driven league now, and sure, there are bad teams and there are good teams, but as we've seen countless times, there are very few gimme kinds of games in this league for most of the teams...and as one would expect in such a league, today's red hot seemingly unbeatables can become tomorrow's ice cold "huh, what?" losers.  Anyone can beat anyone. 

 

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18 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah, I guess you could say that the Canes are now hanging on by the barest of threads, but as far as I'm concerned, blowing last night's game killed them off. 

For the moment (and of course this changes constantly), as far as the Metro goes, you've got two teams battling for first (Caps and Pens...just don't see either one falling off enough for them not to finish 1-2), and then four teams fighting for three open spots.

Flyers:  81 Pts, 12 GR

Blue Jackets:  79 Pts, 12 GR

Devils:  78 Pts, 13 GR

Panthers:  75 Pts, 15 GR

The pessimists among us have probably already pegged the Devils as being the team that falls short, and they could very well do that...they're only 13-17-3 since starting 22-9-5, and we've seen a lot of flaws:  inconsistent secondary scoring, getting pinned for extended time, Cory playing well below expectation levels, the kids looking a bit fatigued, etc.  But I think the one thing that we can't really do is try to make too many assumptions based on each team's schedule "difficulty"...I'm guessing some had the Devils game against the Predators penned in as a loss, and similarly had Florida beating Ottawa...and BTW, Ottawa has now just taken down both the Panthers AND the Lightning, scoring 12 goals in the process.  Fact is this is a parity-driven league now, and sure, there are bad teams and there are good teams, but as we've seen countless times, there are very few gimme kinds of games in this league for most of the teams...and as one would expect in such a league, today's red hot seemingly unbeatables can become tomorrow's ice cold "huh, what?" losers.  Anyone can beat anyone. 

 

One thing I will say in terms of schedule is that the panthers have four back to backs in those last 15 games. 

Unfortunately the Devil's have 3. The flyers have 2 and Columbus manages to only have one back to back left. 

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13 minutes ago, CarpathianForest said:

fvcking ridiculous! FLA and CBJ are facing two of the better teams in the league and they're both winning. The fvck? Even though we win last night, the hockey gods, fate or whatever just needs to keep fvcking around.

Calling Philly one of the better teams in the league is quite generous. 

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1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

This stupid Philly-Columbus game is gonna end up in OT. You just know it.


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I'm slightly more concerned with the BOS/FLA game since FLA has 3 games in hand. We're not enough points ahead of FLA if they manage to win those games in hand.

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46 minutes ago, CarpathianForest said:

fvcking ridiculous! FLA and CBJ are facing two of the better teams in the league and they're both winning. The fvck? Even though we win last night, the hockey gods, fate or whatever just needs to keep fvcking around.

Basically the same frustration we've been dealing CBJ and FLA fans after beating Nashville and steamrolling Vegas lol Let's face it, this is going to continue to be a dogfight between some very good teams who refuse to die.

Edited by DJ Eco
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