World Cup 2018

[eaglejelly]

17 hours ago, SS-SS said:

I just don't understand Löw this campaign. What is the point of playing Werner as your striker and end up spending the game crossing into the box if you have Mario Gomez on the bench and you're wasting Müller on the wings where he is nowhere as dangerous as he is when he plays more centrally?

 

Löws' mistake was that he relied way too long on the 2014 core of players. Even though the signs were there before the WC, he trusted that they would be back to form once the WC started. Now he is finding himself rebuilding the team on the fly.

The problem with Müller is not his positioning, its his form. He has been playing below his best for 2 years now.

Werner is in the lineup because of his speed. Löw likes to keep the ball low and play quick. Werner hasn't been that effective because everyone is parking the bus against Germany. Gomez  was brought in as an hail mary and Werner replaced Draxler on the wing where he did a great job using is speed. Both German goals came from the left side.

Germany still has a lot of work to do. I'm afraid these adjustments are coming too late. They should have been made during the training camp

[SS-SS]

52 minutes ago, eaglejelly said:

Löws' mistake was that he relied way too long on the 2014 core of players. Even though the signs were there before the WC, he trusted that they would be back to form once the WC started. Now he is finding himself rebuilding the team on the fly.

The problem with Müller is not his positioning, its his form. He has been playing below his best for 2 years now.

Werner is in the lineup because of his speed. Löw likes to keep the ball low and play quick. Werner hasn't been that effective because everyone is parking the bus against Germany. Gomez  was brought in as an hail mary and Werner replaced Draxler on the wing where he did a great job using is speed. Both German goals came from the left side.

Germany still has a lot of work to do. I'm afraid these adjustments are coming too late. They should have been made during the training camp

4

I agree with you on basically everything. 

That's exactly where my criticism lies. Werner is undoubtedly on the way to becoming one of the world's best strikers, but we all knew that group stage games were going to see all the teams park the bus against Germany and render Werner ineffective down the middle because of his stature. Why start with him there and sub in Gomez late after you wasted precious minutes. Yesterday, he ended up bringing on Gomez at the start of the 2nd half and was basically down to one sub from the 45th minute because he wasted one on Gomez and had to replace Rudy in the 1st half. He also brought Gomez too late in the Mexico game. Gomez obviously didn't score a hat-trick, but his presence was felt as he missed a couple of chances and monopolized a lot more of the defenders attention 

This also brings me to my next point which is the squad selection. Not a bad selection of players, but clearly lacking in the strikers areas. He is going to a WC with only two strikers (on paper) and he is relying on the fact that his squad has wingers and midfielders who can score lots of goals. The only problem I see with that is that yes Werner is to a certain extent replaceable because the squad contains players that somehow resemble him a bit in terms of speed, trickiness and the ability to finish in front of goal, but Gomez is your only target man and he is injury prone.

Like we saw against Mexico, Sweden and most of the other games, smaller teams will gladly let you do whatever you want with the ball until you're past their 25th yard and then you basically hit a wall of 10 players which leaves even the bigger teams with no better option than crossing balls into the box and relying on set-pieces to unlock the game. With that said, I don't think this is something that took us by surprise which makes the decision to only bring one tall forward who can play the ball well with his head either to finish a chance or to lay it off for other players as well as win physical and aerial battles not understandable to me. This goes hand in hand with the bit of controversy his squad selection caused before the WC...it wasn't just the exclusion of Sane that raised eyebrows. 

Of course, IMO, this problem will tend to be less and less visible if they manage to qualify for the next rounds where they'll face bigger teams who won't just park the bus and actually try to do more than counter. However, if they fall behind in those games, they'll likely find themselves facing the same problem again at one point or another in the game. 

Edit: Also, Muller is in bad form, but remember he is only dangerous through the middle. The man is not speedy, not a skillful dribbler and not a good crosser. He was often deployed over the right side on paper with Bayern and the national team, but he always effectively played down the middle or somehow acted as a second striker. Also, I agree with you, Werner is going to do damage anywhere across the frontline as you pointed out. LW, RW, ST or even SS. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by SS-SS

[DevsMan84]

Hi everyone and a little late to the party.  I have been watching as much of the WC matches as I could get given that my job really clamped down on us streaming games during work hours.  I have been going to bars for lunch just to catch some of the games during the week.

My two teams in every world cup are USA and Germany.  This time I have to rely on Germany for obvious reasons and I agree with everything Eagle and SS-SS have been saying about Germany.  They do look like they are rebuilding on the fly and it is a little scary.  Thankfully they won on Saturday so they control their destiny in their next match against S. Korea instead of having to rely on scoreboard watching.

Overall I have to say this is the most seemingly subdued WC since 2002 in terms of a fan in NJ enthusiasm point of view.  In 2002 the main issue was the huge time difference with it being held in S. Korea and Japan.  This year I think there are 3 reasons; 1) USA is not in it 2) Italy is not in it (NJ has a huge Italian-American population) and 3) The scandals revolving around Russia getting the WC as well as the draw for their group. How Russia managed to get both Egypt and Saudi Arabia in their group is beyond me, but it is clear FIFA went out of their way to ensure they advanced out of the group stage.  I cannot wait for the sh!t-show in the making in 2022.

[eaglejelly]

Well that was embarrassing

[DevsMan84]

Embarrassing indeed but Germany basically screwed themselves.  Losing to Mexico was alarming but not the end of the world, but Germany was in full control of its destiny and fumbled it.  All they had to do was to win this game and they would have been in, but they couldn't muster even 1 goal against the weakest team in the group.  Germany scored a total of 2(!) goals in 3 games; that's not how defending Champions are supposed to play.

There were cracks showing in the weeks ahead of the WC.  Odd personnel and coaching were certainly reasonable questions to ask.  However, as stated before, they really lacked any good strikers who could finish and the scores reflected that.

I am not super upset about this.  I think I was more upset in 94 and in 02 than this.  Germany seems to be following a trend of defending WC champs having a difficult time getting out of the group stage.  The only thing that sucks is that now I have no real vested interest in the rest of the tournament.  I will still watch, but mostly in the background than anything else.  At this point as long as the eventual Champs are from anywhere outside South America I can live with that.

[SS-SS]

Germany, like you guys pointed, did itself no favor. The squad selection is a weird one in many spots. You overlook Sane, but somehow include Draxler and actually start him two games in a row only to waste a substitution because the guy actually does nothing at all on the pitch. Germany has a pool of players that cover each position on a football pitch with at least 2 or 3 quality players and yet you go to the WC with Werner as your main striker. Werner is quality, but as any experimented coach would've known, not in the group stage where every team you will face is just going to pile that box with players leaving you with no choice but to rely on crosses and set-pieces which render a small and pacy guy like Werner absolutely useless in the no.9 position. 

Gomez should've started all 3 games and the squad should've included at least another tall and powerful striker. Wagner, Petersen, and others were there. I also don't agree with anybody saying that these guys never played a WC or were not regular Germany squad members because Löw included other new faces at other positions and he ultimately needed those types of players regardless of their WC experience. 

The final mistake he made is to think that other teams were not going to counter-attack. He wanted to get into the three games with the ''we are the WC champions mentality'' and watch teams curl up in a ball and take the beating for 90 minutes. This works only if you manage to break the deadlock quite quickly because in the meantime you leave yourself open to counters and unless you take the lead the smaller team is not going to open up the pitch and start attacking and leave you less tightly marked and pressed when you have the ball. He played his defense so high up the pitch with only 1 midfielder covering it and paid the price in the three games. What is mind-boggling is that all of those mistakes were visible after the first game and should've been corrected, but he went into the Sweden and Korea game with the same gameplan.  They allowed so many counters attacks while being unable to finish that it was always a question of time they were going to concede. 

Curious to see what happens with this team now. Löw is undoubtedly a very good manager and the next Euro is in less than 2 years. Do they fire him and start working with a new coach towards winning the Euro or do they keep him and hope he fixes his mistakes. 

Everytime Germany gets eliminated too early from a tournament its funny for others, but it also means, down the line, that they are going to turn around and dish out so much pain in the coming years 

Edited June 29, 2018 by SS-SS

[eaglejelly]

I don't see how Löw can stay. With the exception of 1982, I have never seen A German team go so unprepared into a WC. They always knew how they wanted to play and the team always looked better the the sum of the individuals. I think the success got to his head. He ignored all signs and just assumed his core players would show up when needed. Even though Neuer hadn't played all season, he guaranteed him the starting job. That must have been a slap in the face for Ter Stegen, who had a great season. The fact that Leroy Sané didn't fit Löw's style of play, shows how messed up his game plan was.

[DevsMan84]

I am on the fence with Low.  I think I am leaning towards seeing what he does in 2 years in the next Euro.

Buy yeah he always seemed to be ahead of everyone else when it came towards coaching.  I want to say almost to the point of being over-prepared.  In this WC he seemed to be lost and behind everyone else.

[Jimmy Leeds]

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:52 AM, eaglejelly said:

I don't see how Löw can stay. With the exception of 1982, I have never seen A German team go so unprepared into a WC. They always knew how they wanted to play and the team always looked better the the sum of the individuals. I think the success got to his head. He ignored all signs and just assumed his core players would show up when needed. Even though Neuer hadn't played all season, he guaranteed him the starting job. That must have been a slap in the face for Ter Stegen, who had a great season. The fact that Leroy Sané didn't fit Löw's style of play, shows how messed up his game plan was.

1982?   They lost the final

After an incredible Semi v. France

 

I'm still just crushed Denmark is out.   I will have a hard time watching Croatia/Russia Saturday when Dansk was so friggin' close to getting to a Semi

[eaglejelly]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

1982?   They lost the final

After an incredible Semi v. France

 

I'm still just crushed Denmark is out.   I will have a hard time watching Croatia/Russia Saturday when Dansk was so friggin' close to getting to a Semi

I was referring to the opening loss against Algeria. The were so sure they could blow them away, they didnt bother to prepare for the game. They were dumbfounded to find an Algerian team that knew how to play. That German team was stacked, but poorly coached.

Denmark played a great tournament. They just don't have a player like Modrić

[moustic]

We will have an amazing Semi France/Belgium. The Winner will only have to deal with Croatia as the big one that will remain (England doesn't seems big enough even if they can be hold by their luck just as Portugal during the last Euro) 

France is quick as hell and more solid in D that i expect, Belgium is the more complete squad ... But got some really weird and long moment of weakness (Understanble versus the really talented Brazil, but less logic versus Japan) 
It's a close 50/50 And the winner will have a really tiny edge on probably Croatia

[moustic]

I know that this thread is no longer popular here.. but hey ; ) 

Here, we start to believe even more. This french team is build to go for the second star on the Jersey ! I can smell a deadly France/England next Sunday... Bloodbath ! 

[redruM]

so I had money on Spain France and Belgium...honestly thought Belgium screwed themselves by beating England ... They were by far my favorite team this tournament.

Hoping Croatia can find away against England.  But after 2 straight games going to PKs I think there will be a lot of dad legs on the field in the 2nd half for Croatia.

[EdgeControl]

Its.France Croatia , arguably the two best teams... should be fun..  the England Croatia game was top notch soccer.. I really enjoyed it.. Lots of skill shown..  

[moustic]

If any of you don't know what team you want to root for... Think at your old french buddy here... And go support Team France and if they win, you will have the pleasure of having a happy Moustic ; )

[eaglejelly]

If any of you don't know what team you want to root for... Think at your old french buddy here... And go support Team France and if they win, you will have the pleasure of having a happy Moustic ; )

If I remember correctly, you stabbed me in the back and rooted for Argentina the last time, allez Croatie! [emoji1082]
In all seriousness though, France is the clear favorite. Croatia had to go to overtime 3 times, just to get past 3 second class opponents.

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[moustic]

To be fair... In term of football I'm always for Argentina (even against France)... But.now...TeamPogba : ) 

[moustic]

Happy Bastille day ; ) 

[eaglejelly]

Sorry moustic, but the Oracle Cat has determined who will win.

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[moustic]

Wooooooooohooooooooo

Champion du monde !!!! 

[Daniel]

29 minutes ago, moustic said:

Wooooooooohooooooooo

Champion du monde !!!! 

Oh, was that the Commie Kickball tournament?

[Derlique]

Congrats, @moustic!

France started off playing pretty poorly, but really got stronger as the tournament went on. Their road to the final was pretty much as tough as it gets (Argentina, Brazil, Belgium). Really impressive effort from them. 

[moustic]

(they have played Uruguay not Brazil) 

It's pretty crazy here tonight... WOOOOOhooooo ! 

[moustic]

This place... it's the Carillon. It's a bar in Paris. In 2015 it's one of the bar that was attack by the terrorists
In 2018 we say fvck them and we are champion ; ) 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by moustic

[eaglejelly]

Congratulations Moustic! I hope you enjoyed the celebration.

In the end I don't think France played to their potential (scary thought ), but the amount of talent they have was too much for Croatia.