New York Mets 2017-18 offseason thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Not so sure Prado is still THAT Prado anymore.  It was only 37 games, but his numbers were dreadful last season, and he's now 34. 

22 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

The Mets pick another relief pitcher in rule V only to sell him - to THE ROYALS, who should be more frugal than us. You really can’t make this stuff up.

Heh heh, the guy the Mets selected (Burch Smith) missed all of 2015 and 2016 (TJS factored in), but supposedly was looking good once he came back at about the midway point in 2017...put up nice small-sample numbers in AAA.  A guy I think the Mets should've hung onto.  Maybe they're betting that he won't make the Royals and can get him again...not sure how this works.  If he doesn't make the Royals or eventually gets demoted, is he now offered back to the Rays (his original team) or to the Mets? 

In any case, if you're that strapped for cash that you need to make moves like this, just fvcking sell the team already.  What a fvcking joke.   

Edited December 14, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah I actually thought it was a good pick as much as we bag on the recent obsession with minor league relievers, but to hear we just picked him to sell is mind boggling.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

16 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Yeah I actually thought it was a good pick as much as we bag on the recent obsession with minor league relievers, but to hear we just picked him to sell is mind boggling.

Either this team doesn't have money or doesn't want to spend it. 

At any rate, the Mets are really going to have to find a GM who can spot undervalued talent and can find cost-controlled gems via the draft (and actually seems to enjoy such a challenge...some guys do).  Sandy has been awful at both of these things. 

[nmigliore]

On 12/13/2017 at 12:24 PM, '7' said:

Mets have signed Anthony Swarzak to a two year deal worth $14 million dollars. 32 years old and been pretty much a good year-bad year-meh year reliever throughout his career (as a lot of guys are)  His K's were quite good last year relative to innings pitched. He would give up his share of hits but last year those finally started to trend down as well.

Looking at the numbers shows that but there were some underlying changes/factors in Swarzak's success last season - he started throwing his slider much more and he went from a 93-94 mph guy to a 95 mph guy. That may not seem like much, but his contact rate dropped off significantly last season:

Credit: Fangraphs.com

It was a much-needed signing but the bullpen still looks problematic. Familia is coming off a forgettable season, Ramos is a bit like a rich man's Hansel Robles (that's not a positive endorsement), Blevins is good but matchup-specific only, and the rest of the group is a combination of unknown, meh, or bad. I don't know if it will happen (probably not) but they really should be adding at least one more reliable reliever here.

But... they really need to get their sh!t together with the rest of the roster. I've never been big on Dom Smith and for a team "planning" to contend next season, he's not an acceptable answer at 1B. With Conforto not likely to be ready by Opening Day and Cespedes being like glass, they cannot depend on Lagares/Nimmo in CF. If you get full seasons out of Cespedes/Conforto AND address the other holes then MAYBE you can talk me into it, but we know that's not going to happen which means you'll get too many lineups with your 4th and 5th outfielders in there. It does seem like they plan on doing something at 2B and I'm all for a Kipnis buy-low trade; I think there's more upside to him than a 35 year old Ian Kinsler (whose off the board anyway now). I don't like the current "plan" with the left side of the infield at all; Rosario is absolutely not MLB-ready and Cabrera isn't good enough to settle on at 3B if you're starting Rosario. I CAN live with Cabrera at 3B or SS if you go out and get a league average or better starter at one of those positions, however. The rotation could also use a league average, #3-type starter to bridge the gap between deGrom/Thor and the question mark types (Matz, Harvey, etc.).

So... that's a lot of holes. But with that said, the NL East is rather unimpressive as is the rest of the NL once you get past teams like LA, Chicago, and the Nats. The Mets should be able to contend for a Wild Card with a few shrewd moves and better health/injury luck this season.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Not sure what's more rare...UFO or nmig sightings.  Welcome back!

I wouldn't say Rosario isn't ready...he's not going to learn much going back to Vegas and lighting it up.  He also got some major-league experience last season.

Obviously he's got to learn how to draw SOME walks, and next year might not be pretty stats-wise at the plate, but I think he can at least learn at the major-league level. 

Mets can talk about "planning" to contend all they want, but they're full of it, and we all know it.  They rarely back up their words with actions, and this is just the latest case of it.

[nmigliore]

Haha, I'm usually lurking around once in awhile on here and NYFS but I honestly don't follow the team or baseball in general as much as I used to. Just much more difficult to do these days between work, personal life, and other hobbies/passions. 

The thing with Rosario is he looked very raw and unrefined with his approach at the plate last season. I know it wasn't a lot of plate appearances, but from what I remember, the stats that stabilize more quickly are plate discipline.. I'd have to look it up but I wouldn't be surprised if he had the worst, or at least one of the worst, walk to strikeout ratios in the league. He's probably never going to draw many walks, which isn't such a big deal for a SS who has other tools (I'm not sure if this comp has been thrown out, but I can see an Alcides Escobar with more power), but he definitely needs a better approach at the plate. If the Mets think of 2018 as a non-contending year, then sure, it's probably okay to just give Rosario 150+ games and let him take his lumps at the MLB level... but (for as many holes as they do have), I think they CAN actually contend, and I'd hate to see them be content with an infield made up of Cabrera, Rosario, and Smith and think everything will be all fine and dandy. Even if they trade for Kipnis that's still a very uninspiring group.

I will say, I rather them prioritize CF and 1B. At least with Rosario you can hope and dream on the premium prospect upside, the glove, some power, the baserunning, etc. With Smith, the bar is much higher to be an average starter next season, especially for someone who is in the red when it comes to defense and baserunning. I think we know what Lagares/Nimmo are at this point, and while they are useful pieces in some capacity, neither has any business starting.

Edited December 15, 2017 by nmigliore

['7']

Rosario is 22, so if he isn't MLB ready yet he should be very very close. He certainly looked overwhelmed at times last year at the plate. Chased a lot of outside stuff. For as highly ranked as he was as a prospect I don't think anybody was blown away by what we saw.

Dom Smith is a non starter and just not a 1b in todays MLB. Short, slow, stocky singles hitters are DOA. The 9hr's are a mirage. Perhaps aided by the juiced balls of last season. I hope they move him as soon as possible while he's still more of an upside guy rather than a proven commodity.

Wouldn't mind them signing career stopgap Mark Reynolds. Or Carlos Santana. Would love to get him in here to play 1b but they probably won't go either route.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Without a doubt, Rosario's BB-to-K ratio was as bad as it could possibly get.  It won't ever be great, but yeah, it has to improve for sure. 

As far as everything else...you've read my posts...I think we have a GM who flat-out doesn't give a damn anymore.  I don't know for sure what the reasons are, but I have my ideas.  Maybe having cancer caused him to re-evaluate his priorities, and he decided that he's not going to kill himself over the fate of the Mets.  Maybe he can't spend as much money as he wants to and is tired of it.  Not saying that I can't understand those feelings on some level, but someone in that frame of mind can't be the Mets' GM.  Get me someone who's going to try. 

[nmigliore]

1 hour ago, '7' said:

Rosario is 22, so if he isn't MLB ready yet he should be very very close. He certainly looked overwhelmed at times last year at the plate. Chased a lot of outside stuff. For as highly ranked as he was as a prospect I don't think anybody was blown away by what we saw.

Dom Smith is a non starter and just not a 1b in todays MLB. Short, slow, stocky singles hitters are DOA. The 9hr's are a mirage. Perhaps aided by the juiced balls of last season. I hope they move him as soon as possible while he's still more of an upside guy rather than a proven commodity.

Wouldn't mind them signing career stopgap Mark Reynolds. Or Carlos Santana. Would love to get him in here to play 1b but they probably won't go either route.

Gone to the Phils just now for 3 years, $60M with a 4th year club option.

Also, Zack Cozart just signed for 3 years at $38M with the Angels. I wouldn't buy into his crazy good 2017 being the norm but he's no worse than an above average regular; he wouldn't necessarily have blocked Rosario either since you could always have moved him to 3B, which is what it appears the Angels will do. They've had such a loud and exciting offseason, huh?

Edited December 15, 2017 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Cozart had a career 82 OPS+ prior to this season.  No thanks. 

Santana would've been a nice fit...guy is a walk machine...reminds me a little of Gene Tenace.  Look him up nmig...he's the true Greek God of walks.  .241 career BA, .388 career OB%

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:03 AM, NJDevs4978 said:

Yeah I actually thought it was a good pick as much as we bag on the recent obsession with minor league relievers, but to hear we just picked him to sell is mind boggling.

BTW supposedly the Royals wanted this guy and since the Mets were selecting ahead of them, they offered to pay the Mets to take him and then "give" him to KC.  So not quite what we were led to believe, for whatever it's worth. 

Mets take SS Andrew Ely in Rule 5 (supposed to be a solid glove but with not much of a bat), and lose LHP Jose Medina.  Nothing about Medina suggests the Mets lost anything special...he doesn't give up walks or HRs, but he gives up a lot of hits and isn't much of a K guy.

[NJDevs4978]

While I don't expect the media openly calling out the Mets to be a habit for obvious reasons (they still need to be able to do their job and having an openly adversarial relationship makes that harder), it is always nice for the fans to see the beat guys - in this case Carig - occasionally call out the Mets for their nonsense

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Trade deGrom.  Guy deserves better than to waste his prime years playing for complete scum like the Wilpons...especially Jeffy.  Whatever team deGrom gets traded to (as long as it's not the Yankees or a few others), I'll support that team.  Not turning in my Met fan card, but it's impossible for me to invest myself in a franchise that can't be bothered.  I get downturns and valleys, I get rebuilds...but an indifferent franchise run by slimeballs who apparently hate their fans is something different entirely.  So fvck them.

[nmigliore]

Sounds like the Mets are interested in Adrian Gonzalez after he was released by Atlanta. This one doesn't really pass the smell test whatsoever, but that would be such a horrible move; I'm not a big believer in Smith but Gonzalez is old, bad, injury-prone, and was a clubhouse problem last season when he was usurped by Cody Bellinger. Giant no thank you. 

[NJDevs4978]

2 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

Sounds like the Mets are interested in Adrian Gonzalez after he was released by Atlanta. This one doesn't really pass the smell test whatsoever, but that would be such a horrible move; I'm not a big believer in Smith but Gonzalez is old, bad, injury-prone, and was a clubhouse problem last season when he was usurped by Cody Bellinger. Giant no thank you. 

It would be a Mets type move though, do something on the cheap to block a younger player. Typically craven and unimaginative.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

Sounds like the Mets are interested in Adrian Gonzalez after he was released by Atlanta. This one doesn't really pass the smell test whatsoever, but that would be such a horrible move; I'm not a big believer in Smith but Gonzalez is old, bad, injury-prone, and was a clubhouse problem last season when he was usurped by Cody Bellinger. Giant no thank you. 

Yep, that's a move that a team interested in pursuing a playoff berth makes.  Same ol' Dandy Sandy. 

[nmigliore]

Giants just traded for Evan Longoria. I never bought that our interest was genuine but I'm glad he's "officially" off the radar now. We already have one toasted 3B making tons of money, we didn't need another one that looks headed that way. Hopefully they do us another favor and sign Jay Bruce next.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Yeah Longoria clearly isn't the same player, though his 2016 season was solid (.840 OPS, even with a low .318 OB%).  But overall is his past four seasons he's put up a .767 OPS (112 OPS+)...he was an .870 OPS (136 OPS+) over his first six seasons.

Looks like Bruce is going to fall into the Mets' lap.  Not sure how I feel about that.  For one, it feels like same ol same ol, even though he was only here for a total of 153 GP...his slash here was pretty consistent with his career norms (.245/.313/.482 as a Met, .249/.319/.470 for his career), but when it gets ugly for him, it gets really ugly (look at his 2014 and 2015 seasons).  And like I've repeated as nauseum, I'd like Passive Uncreative to start pursuing a different kind of hitter, for once. 

[nmigliore]

The problem with Bruce is his value is 100% tied to power. He's not going to hit for average, he doesn't draw so many walks, he's a negative defensive player, etc. As soon as the power starts to drop off just a bit, he's a replacement level talent. Just look at 2014 and 2015 as an example of what Bruce is when he's not running a .250+ ISO. He doesn't have the type of skillset that ages well whatsoever and now you'd be getting him on the wrong side of 30. Roster construction wise, he's still as poor of a fit as he was when we originally traded for him; the Mets already have two good corner outfielders (albeit with injury history) and Bruce has minimal experience playing 1B. It's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I just wouldn't bother going there. If the Mets aren't satisfied with Smith, go out and get a real 1B. If they're not happy with their outfield depth and/or are worried about Cespedes/Conforto holding up, sign a quality 4th outfielder type like Jarrod Dyson or Jon Jay. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

So basically we're in agreement.  I'd rather he doesn't come back.

[NJDevs4978]

The lump of coal in every Met fan stocking:

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Oh fvck off Sandy, Freddy and Jeffy...you all deserve each other...syphilis, gonorrhea and the clap.

[EdgeControl]

So sandy takes a pitching staff and team built by Omar , completely destroys it... and gets an extension..?   must be nice... ok, in fairness he has one hand tied behind his back because of the money and bank issues,,, but cmon

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

10 minutes ago, EdgeControl said:

So sandy takes a pitching staff and team built by Omar , completely destroys it... and gets an extension..?   must be nice... ok, in fairness he has one hand tied behind his back because of the money and bank issues,,, but cmon

To be fair, he did bring in Syndergaard (and the deal for Addison Reed was a good one)...but yeah, when you come right down to it, he inherited a fair amount, and hasn't really done very much...the most frustrating thing is his complete lack of imagination and creativity.  The fact that he comes off like he's got it all figured out and is often arrogant and condescending to anyone who dares to ask him what the hell he's doing just makes him that much harder to take...oh, and he cracks jokes about his lack of ability to make anything happen.  He did NOTHING to earn an extension.  NOTHING.   

Former GM and Met employee banger Steve Phillips has come out in defense of the Wilpons...all I have to say is if anything Phillips has to say about them is at all true, then LET US HEAR IT FROM THE fvckING WILPONS!  Those two fvckers think they're above having to address the fanbase in any way, that we should just somehow feel blessed to have a team at all, and we're all sick of it.   

Edited December 21, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

This is just....weird