New York Mets 2017-18 offseason thread

[EdgeControl]

Just now, NJDevs4978 said:

This is just....weird

 

LMAO, like I just said.. good for sandy

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

6 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

This is just....weird

 

Weird as it is (and for most franchises not named the New York Mets it would be very weird), it actually makes sense on some levels...Omar has a lot of flaws and he deserved to get canned when he did, but he is solid at spotting talent...I would say he is better at it than Sandy (who really isn't all that good at anything, though he acts like he is).  I actually think Omar could help.     

[MadDog2020]

I really feel for you Met fans. The Wilpons are a joke. https://deadspin.com/mets-owner-wishes-the-yankees-wouldnt-spend-so-much-mon-1821527284?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


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[NJDevs4978]

50 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Weird as it is (and for most franchises not named the New York Mets it would be very weird), it actually makes sense on some levels...Omar has a lot of flaws and he deserved to get canned when he did, but he is solid at spotting talent...I would say he is better at it than Sandy (who really isn't all that good at anything, though he acts like he is).  I actually think Omar could help.     

If they’re making him head scout and/or give him a big role in Latin American scouting I’m all for it. Special assistant is so ambiguous though, I don’t know what to think. The cynic in me thinks Omar’s just being brought back to be a better public face of the franchise since the Wilpons themselves and Sandy are so toxic to Met fans atm.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

50 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I really feel for you Met fans. The Wilpons are a joke. https://deadspin.com/mets-owner-wishes-the-yankees-wouldnt-spend-so-much-mon-1821527284?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Yeah it sucks MD.  I'm pretty much detaching myself from the Mets for a while...they've given me no choice.  Like I said, I get downturns and rebuilds...that's all part of the cycle...I will continue to support my team through valleys.  But when you're basically not even trying, and won't ever level with your fans about what the plan is, and act like you don't owe them a damn thing and can't be bothered with them for having stuck through your follies, then it's really hard to stay invested.

I used to think that somehow, some way, that with the right baseball men in charge, that the Wilpons could be overcome, and that the Mets could actually enjoy some degree of success.

But now I know that it will NEVER happen as long as those two dipsh!ts own the team.  The Wilpons are fvcking pond scum, complete pieces of sh!t, and they don't deserve a dime of my money or sympathy.  It would be awesome if MLB could somehow force them out of baseball by making them sell the team, but there's bad owners in all sports...they'll always be a part of the sports landscape.

The funny thing is, there are GMs who actually try to find ways (and sometimes can) to make seemingly impossibly situations work.  Unfortunately, the zilch who's currently here doesn't possess the energy or creativity for such a thing.  So the Mets are fvcked and will be for YEARS.  I just hope deGrom finds a team where he actually has a chance to win something.  He so deserves better than to be stuck in this mess.     

Edited December 22, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[MadDog2020]

Yeah it sucks MD.  I'm pretty much detaching myself from the Mets for a while...they've given me no choice.  Like I said, I get downturns and rebuilds...that's all part of the cycle...I will continue to support my team through valleys.  But when you're basically not even trying, and won't ever level with your fans about what the plan is, and act like you don't owe them a damn thing and can't be bothered with them for having stuck through your follies, then it's really hard to stay invested.
I used to think that somehow, some way, that with the right baseball men in charge, that the Wilpons could be overcome, and that the Mets could actually enjoy some degree of success.
But now I know that it will NEVER happen as long as those two dipsh!ts own the team.  The Wilpons are fvcking pond scum, complete pieces of sh!t, and they don't deserve a dime of my money or sympathy.  It would be awesome if MLB could somehow force them out of baseball by making them sell the team, but there's bad owners in all sports...they'll always be a part of the sports landscape.
The funny thing is, there are GMs who actually try to find ways (and sometimes can) to make seemingly impossibly situations work.  Unfortunately, the zilch who's currently here doesn't possess the energy or creativity for such a thing.  So the Mets are fvcked and will be for YEARS.  I just hope deGrom finds a team where he actually has a chance to win something.  He so deserves better than to be stuck in this mess.     

The fact that he doesn't think the Yankee model is 'sustainable' shows just how clueless and moronic Fred is. Completely oblivious and out to lunch.


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[Colorado Rockies 1976]

13 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Completely oblivious and out to lunch.

What is "How to sum up the Wilpons in six words Alex!"

['7']

On 12/22/2017 at 10:21 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Weird as it is (and for most franchises not named the New York Mets it would be very weird), it actually makes sense on some levels...Omar has a lot of flaws and he deserved to get canned when he did, but he is solid at spotting talent...I would say he is better at it than Sandy (who really isn't all that good at anything, though he acts like he is).  I actually think Omar could help.     

Yea I'm oddly ok with Omar as well just because he's got a better eye for talent, Sandy has sort of ridden Omars finds to any success he's had in blue and orange. As long as shirtless Tony Bernazard isn't part of the equation I think this will work out fine. Just keep Minaya focused on what he's good at...I think the reason he took this job is to get back in the GM'ing game somewhere, though it won't be here.

[nmigliore]

I'm weirdly okay with Omar returning. He has his flaws as a GM, but he has a niche for finding amateur talent. It's easy to forget the Mets' successes in recent years have had a LOT to do with the talent he brought in (Harvey, deGrom, Matz, Familia, Duda, Flores, Lagares, etc.). He even had a hand in the acquisition of Syndergaard and d'Arnaud to a small degree with the signing of RA Dickey in the first place.

['7']

Looks like Mets talks with Todd Frazier are accelerating

https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/talks-between-todd-frazier-mets-picking-up/264443902

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

If Frazier doesn't fit the mold of the prototypical Sandy hitter (low BA/high K/some power), I don't know what does.  Of course Mr. No-creativity goes for the same ol' thing...geez Sandy, why not bring back Doofus while you're at it?  For the love of God Sandy, stop bringing in this kind of hitter...Citi isn't a power hitter's paradise.  Start trying to find higher-average higher-OB% guys who have some speed and can play some defense.  This ballpark is screaming for that kind of offense. 

['7']

17 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If Frazier doesn't fit the mold of the prototypical Sandy hitter (low BA/high K/some power), I don't know what does.  Of course Mr. No-creativity goes for the same ol' thing...geez Sandy, why not bring back Doofus while you're at it?  For the love of God Sandy, stop bringing in this kind of hitter...Citi isn't a power hitter's paradise.  Start trying to find higher-average higher-OB% guys who have some speed and can play some defense.  This ballpark is screaming for that kind of offense. 

And he's on the wrong side of 30. And yes he does fit the mold of righty Duda. Aging, contact declining, still hits worthless bombs in blowouts. Hopeless against good relievers from the 7th inning on.

Mets are also in on Howie Kendrick. He will be turning 35 during the season but he was quite solid in 91 games last year. Always been a solid OBP guy.

[nmigliore]

I guess I'm in the minority in that I like the idea of signing Frazier. Mostly because the alternatives kind of suck (he was always a wiser alternative to signing Moustakas or trading for Longoria) and he shouldn't break the bank (Fangraphs' contract crowdsource projected him for about him 3 years at $14M AAV). He's not some kind of difference-maker but he's been a consistent, above average player and he does make the Mets better.

As for the McCutchen rumors, he's still a good player, but I just don't love the fit on this roster - he doesn't belong in CF anymore for one and he's a 1-year rental. If the Mets were a piece or two away from being legitimate NL contenders, it would be different. I feel like if you're going to acquire McCutchen you may as well go for it all and try to swing a deal for Machado as well, but we know the Mets certainly don't have the resources to pull that off. But the point is, they would still need another big splash. McCutchen and Frazier make the team better, but they still need more.

Give me McCutchen, Frazier, and another big move (signing Darvish or something of that ilk) and I'm on board. But give me McCutchen and Frazier, call it an offseason, and it can get ugly (now and in the future) if things don't break right. Sadly, we know the former has next to 0% of happening....

Edited January 10, 2018 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

18 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

I guess I'm in the minority in that I like the idea of signing Frazier. Mostly because the alternatives kind of suck (he was always a wiser alternative to signing Moustakas or trading for Longoria) and he shouldn't break the bank (Fangraphs' contract crowdsource projected him for about him 3 years at $14M AAV). He's not some kind of difference-maker but he's been a consistent, above average player and he does make the Mets better.

As for the McCutchen rumors, he's still a good player, but I just don't love the fit on this roster - he doesn't belong in CF anymore for one and he's a 1-year rental. If the Mets were a piece or two away from being legitimate NL contenders, it would be different. I feel like if you're going to acquire McCutchen you may as well go for it all and try to swing a deal for Machado as well, but we know the Mets certainly don't have the resources to pull that off. But the point is, they would still need another big splash. McCutchen and Frazier make the team better, but they still need more.

Give me McCutchen, Frazier, and another big move (signing Darvish or something of that ilk) and I'm on board. But give me McCutchen and Frazier, call it an offseason, and it can get ugly (now and in the future) if things don't break right. Sadly, we know the former has next to 0% of happening....

Aren't you kind of fed up with these low-BA whiffers though?  It's one thing if you're a Gene Tenace-type who walks so damned much that the low BAs don't seem like that big of a deal, but a problem for years here has been that Sandy's offenses don't hit the damned ball enough...and they don't make enough contact either. 

Cutch did have a nice bounceback year last season...and his .305 BABIP at least suggests that it wasn't all due to luck.  But yeah, I've heard his CF days should be behind him. 

[nmigliore]

In the moments of an actual baseball game, yes, it can be frustrating to watch. The strikeouts aren't even the most frustrating part of Frazier's game, though - it's the infield pop-ups. He's led MLB in infield flyball rate for two consecutive seasons! But Frazier makes up for it with his power, which ranks among the best at his position, and good defense at 3B. He also has a walk rate just under 12% over the last two seasons combined, which is something. He's certainly not perfect; he IS on the wrong side of 30 and the tandem of strikeouts and infield flies will continue to kill his BA and probably drive fans nuts... but even with that, he contributes enough in other areas to be a pretty good player. He's not someone I would commit more than 3 years to (the defense will decline and once the power goes, he's done) but he should be fine in the short-term.

Edited January 10, 2018 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

56 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

In the moments of an actual baseball game, yes, it can be frustrating to watch. The strikeouts aren't even the most frustrating part of Frazier's game, though - it's the infield pop-ups. He's led MLB in infield flyball rate for two consecutive seasons! But Frazier makes up for it with his power, which ranks among the best at his position, and good defense at 3B. He also has a walk rate just under 12% over the last two seasons combined, which is something. He's certainly not perfect; he IS on the wrong side of 30 and the tandem of strikeouts and infield flies will continue to kill his BA and probably drive fans nuts... but even with that, he contributes enough in other areas to be a pretty good player. He's not someone I would commit more than 3 years to (the defense will decline and once the power goes, he's done) but he should be fine in the short-term.

Didn't know that about the pop-ups...oh man, that is going to lead to a lot of frustrating ABs I'm sure. 

I guess it would be nice if for just once the Mets could quit shopping in the "Lots of flaws, but he does have some good qualities" isle.  I'm just tired of having to look for silver linings...for once, it would be nice to get someone approaching a slam-dunk. 

[nmigliore]

30 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Didn't know that about the pop-ups...oh man, that is going to lead to a lot of frustrating ABs I'm sure. 

I guess it would be nice if for just once the Mets could quit shopping in the "Lots of flaws, but he does have some good qualities" isle.  I'm just tired of having to look for silver linings...for once, it would be nice to get someone approaching a slam-dunk. 

Well, slam dunks are going to cost boat loads of money, money that Sandy and Wilpons refuse to spend. If Frazier struck out a little bit less and didn't have those infield fly issues, he'd be something like Josh Donaldson. The free agent crop as a whole is rather weak and flawed this year, to be honest. If you think about the top guys - Yu Darvish is not even an ace and has pitched 200 innings in a season exactly once in his MLB career; JD Martinez is an elite hitter but his value is suppressed by the fact he's negative everywhere else; Eric Hosmer has literally traded good seasons with replacement level seasons since he debuted and is the furthest thing from a slam dunk.

Ironically, even though he has his flaws, Frazier has been pretty consistent; he's been worth +2.5 WAR or more in every single season, has had an OPS+ above league average in 5 of 6 seasons, and he's played 150 or more games in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, nmigliore said:

Well, slam dunks are going to cost boat loads of money, money that Sandy and Wilpons refuse to spend. If Frazier struck out a little bit less and didn't have those infield fly issues, he'd be something like Josh Donaldson. The free agent crop as a whole is rather weak and flawed this year, to be honest. If you think about the top guys - Yu Darvish is not even an ace and has pitched 200 innings in a season exactly once in his MLB career; JD Martinez is an elite hitter but his value is suppressed by the fact he's negative everywhere else; Eric Hosmer has literally traded good seasons with replacement level seasons since he debuted and is the furthest thing from a slam dunk.

Ironically, even though he has his flaws, Frazier has been very consistent; he's been worth +2.5 WAR or more in every single season, has had an OPS+ above league average in 5 of 6 seasons, and he's played 150 or more games in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

 

Oh I was saying something closer to a slam-dunk...not an actual one...of course, you're far FAR better off if you can draft a guy like that, as opposed to trying to buy one or getting stuck overpaying massively (especially since some of his prime years have already been used up by the time he becomes available via FA).  Another area where Sandy's failed...his drafts haven't produced that much to date. 

[nmigliore]

Yep it's hard to argue with that, re: the draft.

Conforto looks like he can be a star if he can stay healthy, but then again he was taken 10th overall. Fulmer was a great pick for 44th overall, I'll give them that, but Detroit's reaping those benefits now. But besides that... it's been pretty miserable. Seth Lugo was a nice find relative to his round but his upside is probably no higher than a league average starter. Nimmo looks like he can be a contributor in some capacity but he was a high pick (13th overall) and the upside is pretty limited there.

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, nmigliore said:

Yep it's hard to argue with that, re: the draft.

Conforto looks like he can be a star if he can stay healthy, but then again he was taken 10th overall. Fulmer was a great pick for 44th overall, I'll give them that, but Detroit's reaping those benefits now. But besides that... it's been pretty miserable. Seth Lugo was a nice find relative to his round but his upside is probably no higher than a league average starter. Nimmo looks like he can be a contributor in some capacity but he was a high pick (13th overall) and the upside is pretty limited there.

Fulmer's H/9 went up and his K/9 went down...not sure if that's a huge deal, but worth paying attention to.  He also faded as the season went on in his first two years in the bigs. 

Yeah, Conforto looks like he will be a solid pick as long as he can stay healthy. 

It's funny, almost daily now on sports talk Sandy is getting called on his BS...on Boomer's show, they basically said that if questioned, that Sandy would defend the lack of prospects in the system by claiming he moved most of them in trades.  Problem is the only one that he moved that anyone would bother talking about is Fulmer, and though he's been pretty good, the jury is still out on his future.  It's been slim pickins otherwise, and though Sandy would love to take credit for everything, the fact remains that much of what's here is directly or indirectly because of Omar.  We've discussed it, but I'm glad Omar's back for that reason...I think (and always did) that he has an eye for talent...if he's learned from his mistakes and misplaced priorities, maybe he could even become a GM again, though I'd be scared to ever have him back here in that capacity...it would have to be somewhere else. 

I still haven't figured out what Sandy's good for...most of his "value" signings (I think this was supposed to be his top strengths) haven't panned out at all.  And of course, next to nothing in the creativity department.  Just remember that he wanted to trade Flores and Wheeler for Carlos Gomez...because he seems to have forgotten.  

['7']

I'm worried about Conforto. Such a rare, unusual injury for a hitter to suffer. I'm worried this may permanently effect his swing and power. I'm not penciling him back in for stardom (or anything for that matter) until I see him play at a high level again.

I thought Harvey would regain his form. He may never. I thought Duaner would be good again. Nope.

[NJDevs4978]

Somewhat predictable and I know there's gonna be hand-wringing over this but Bruce won my respect last year, I'm fine with him coming back and fine with the terms too (three years was the upper end of what I would have wanted).  Plus they kind of needed a middle of the order guy anyway.  Conforto-Ces-Bruce if healthy is a decent enough 3-5.  Now about finding a leadoff hitter...

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Status fvcking quo.  Could be worse I guess.  Guess defense continues not to matter to Passive Uncreative.  

I pray he doesn't revert to 2014 and 2015 form...otherwise this is a disaster, even at this relatively not-too-bad price tag.

As for a leadoff hitter...guessing Reyes will be back, because he'll be cheap.  Doesn't matter that he sucked for way too long...Sandy & Co were probably impressed enough by his garbage-time performance to re-sign him.  

Edited January 11, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

I'm ok with this, not elated...just ok. Bruce certainly is a guy who can have success now that we're in live ball era V 2.0. Still have that nagging concern that he may turn back into 2014-2015 Bruce as CR mentioned, or the hopeless guy we saw when he first got here. Seems like when he hits those slumps he really takes it hard psychologically and presses. He'll go two weeks without getting the ball out of the infield.

I don't expect him to pick up where he left off with us last summer. He was having a tremendous season. The HR's will come, around 25-30..if he can keep that batting average around .240 and get on base at around .315-.320 I would be fine with that.

Edited January 11, 2018 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

6 hours ago, '7' said:

I'm ok with this, not elated...just ok. Bruce certainly is a guy who can have success now that we're in live ball era V 2.0. Still have that nagging concern that he may turn back into 2014-2015 Bruce as CR mentioned, or the hopeless guy we saw when he first got here. Seems like when he hits those slumps he really takes it hard psychologically and presses. He'll go two weeks without getting the ball out of the infield.

I don't expect him to pick up where he left off with us last summer. He was having a tremendous season. The HR's will come, around 25-30..if he can keep that batting average around .240 and get on base at around .315-.320 I would be fine with that.

The sad thing is that the Mets do so little that when something actually happens, we look for positives wherever we can find them.  Yeah, Bruce will probably hit 25-30 HRs by accident.  But my main issue with this move is that Passive's philosophy hasn't changed one bit...apparently, it's power at the expense of everything else...nothing against Bruce the person, who I'm sure is a good guy to have in the clubhouse, but Bruce the player is very flawed...low BA, meh OB%, Ks a ton (not like a lot of hitter don't though), and is bad defensively.  

Feels like maybe one or two more minor moves are coming (Reyes being one of them), then Sandy will go back to sleep.  What a crap offseason...basically the 2017 team is coming back intact, complete with the guys that we can barely stomach watching.  Hope Rosario and Smith show signs of progress...outside of watching deGrom and hopefully Syndergaard do their thing (but get screwed out of wins), we don't have much to look forward to.  

Edited January 11, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976