New York Mets 2017-18 offseason thread

['7']

This is mostly MLB's fault. As soon as they approved the Jeter group (who have no business owning a franchise. They don't have the $) Stanton became a Yankee at that moment. The Cards and Giants could do it. Elite, historical, succesful franchises. Nope. No trade clause. That only left the Dodgers and Yankees and Stanton could take his pick. So the Yankees basically get him and give up no talent of consequence because the MLB approved new owners can't afford to run a team. Something is wrong with this picture.

[Daniel]

9 hours ago, '7' said:

This is mostly MLB's fault. As soon as they approved the Jeter group (who have no business owning a franchise. They don't have the $) Stanton became a Yankee at that moment. The Cards and Giants could do it. Elite, historical, succesful franchises. Nope. No trade clause. That only left the Dodgers and Yankees and Stanton could take his pick. So the Yankees basically get him and give up no talent of consequence because the MLB approved new owners can't afford to run a team. Something is wrong with this picture.

To be fair to MLB, the only type of person that could own the Marlins and have them spend kind of where other teams do would have to be one of the fifty richest people in the world.  They can’t force someone with that much money to buy the team and then not care about losing a lot of money, which is what happens when you don’t have a hard salary cap.  As we all know baseball salaries are obscene.  An ok middle reliever makes more than Connor McDavid or even a good NFL QB.  

So if you’re buying the Marlins, you realize that the road to success is breaking things down, scouting the sh!t out of Latin America, and maybe spending a ton for one year when a World Series is in sight.  Not to rub Mets fans’ noses in it, but they have won two World Series since they’ve been in the league to the Mets’ zero during the same time.  Or, of course, two more during the same time period than the Dodgers also.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

This is EXACTLY why you're a useless c*nt Sandy.  Your jokes aren't remotely funny and never have been, and not one Mets fan is in the mood for your bullsh!t.  We get it, the Wilpons either don't give a sh!t or are just too incompetent to ever get out of their own way, and for the most part, you never really seemed to care a whole lot either.  This offseason has been every bit the disaster most predicted it would be, thanks to you...passive, meek and zero creativity...not even a fvcking HINT of a pulse from you.  Seriously, fvck off, resign...at least then the Wilpons might be able to find someone who actually gives a damn about where this franchise is going, as opposed to some zilch like you, who's clearly just showing up to collect some golden age paychecks at this point.  Hell, right now, I'd give Ray fvcking Shero the job...even coming from another sport, he'd do a better job than Sleepy Sandy. 

http://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/mlb/mets/2017/12/11/mets-gm-sandy-alderson-ripped-twitter-not-needing-giancarlo-stanton/940960001/

Edited December 13, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

This is EXACTLY why you're a useless c*nt Sandy.  Your jokes aren't remotely funny and never have been, and not one Mets fan is in the mood for your bullsh!t.  We get it, the Wilpons don't either don't give a sh!t or are just too incompetent to ever get out of their own way, and for the most part, you never really seemed to care a whole lot either.  This offseason has been every bit the disaster most predicted it would be, thanks to you...passive, meek and zero creativity...not even a fvcking HINT of a pulse from you.  Seriously, fvck off, resign...at least then the Wilpons might be able to find someone who actually gives a damn about where this franchise is going, as opposed to someone zilch like you, who's clearly just showing up to collect some golden age paychecks at this point.  Hell, right now, I'd give Ray fvcking Shero the job...even coming from another sport, he'd do a better job than Sleepy Sandy. 

http://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/mlb/mets/2017/12/11/mets-gm-sandy-alderson-ripped-twitter-not-needing-giancarlo-stanton/940960001/

It was a pathetic "joke" and he's been lobbing these Kenny Banya type 1 liners since he got here. The real problem with it is that you're actually sort of backhanding your own player over it. Hey who needs Tom Brady when we have Bryce Petty? Who needs Taylor Hall when you have Drew Stafford? Why does Brandon Nimmo...a great guy, scrappy player but flawed and clearly not Stanton need our own GM using him as a punch line? Unprofessional Sandy.

Sorry I don't need salt in the wound as we lose another generation of fans to the Yankees and get steamrolled on and off the field. It's not funny to me or anybody else anymore.

Edited December 13, 2017 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah you know we’re headed back to the dark ages when Sandy resumes his comedy hour.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

4 minutes ago, '7' said:

It was a pathetic "joke" and he's been lobbing these Kenny Banya type 1 liners since he got here. The real problem with it is that you're actually sort of backhanding your own player over it. Hey who needs Tom Brady when we have Bryce Petty? Who needs Taylor Hall when you have Drew Stafford? Why does Brandon Nimmo...a great guy, scrappy player but flawed and clearly not Stanton need our own GM using him as a punch line? Unprofessional Sandy.

That's a fair point too.  Really not fair to Nimmo at all.  And not knocking him, but the reason guys like him are still around is that SANDY LETS PLAYERS HANG AROUND SEASON AFTER SEASON AFTER SEASON, instead of attempting to upgrade.  On the WFAN this morning, Boomer and Jerry were talking about Lagares manning CF everyday...can you believe this is still even a topic of conversation? 

And heaven forbid your drafts might start to produce something Sandy...Omar was light years ahead of you there...he's a big reason for the success you've had to date, really, much as you don't ever acknowledge any of that when you're writing your sh!tty books. 

2 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Yeah you know we’re headed back to the dark ages when Sandy resumes his comedy hour.

Being a Mets fan means your threshold for nonsense tends to be higher than a lot of other franchises' fans, but I'm really getting fed up now.  I knew this was going to be a bad offseason, yet it's actually going to be even WORSE than I originally thought.  If I'm deGrom, I seriously start questioning what the hell I'm doing here.   

[NJDevs4978]

At least they have an excuse for Lagares, trying to justify a contract that hasn’t worked out. But to even start whispering about Hansel Robles and his fastball spin rate as a precursor to giving him ANOTHER shot is mind boggling. Or would be with another front office.

['7']

16 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

That's a fair point too.  Really not fair to Nimmo at all.  And not knocking him, but the reason guys like him are still around is that SANDY LETS PLAYERS HANG AROUND SEASON AFTER SEASON AFTER SEASON, instead of attempting to upgrade.  On the WFAN this morning, Boomer and Jerry were talking about Lagares manning CF everyday...can you believe this is still even a topic of conversation? 

And heaven forbid your drafts might start to produce something Sandy...Omar was light years ahead of you there...he's a big reason for the success you've had to date, really, much as you don't ever acknowledge any of that when you're writing your sh!tty books. 

Being a Mets fan means your threshold for nonsense tends to be higher than a lot of other franchises' fans, but I'm really getting fed up now.  I knew this was going to be a bad offseason, yet it's actually going to be even WORSE than I originally thought.  If I'm deGrom, I seriously start questioning what the hell I'm doing here.   

Yea if I'm deGrom I probably have my agent start sending missives to the Dodgers, Yankees, Cardinals, Red Sox, Cubs Giants etc. The teams that care and want to win. Writing is on the wall that this team won't be a serious competitor for a while, and will not be going the extra mile. You're going to be 29 this summer...why bother? He tried his best to prop up this injury riddled corpse last summer. He really deserves better around him

Edited December 13, 2017 by '7'

['7']

12 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

At least they have an excuse for Lagares, trying to justify a contract that hasn’t worked out. But to even start whispering about Hansel Robles and his fastball spin rate as a precursor to giving him ANOTHER shot is mind boggling. Or would be with another front office.

I'd actually be ok with Robles as long as he's the absolute last man in the pen. I mean sometimes he gets on these nice littler runs where you can bring him in with the bases loaded and 1 out and he'll K two guys on 6 pitches. Then he'll be pointing up at 490ft home runs for the next two weeks. He has some ability, but come on he's a back of the pen reliever.

Edited December 13, 2017 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

14 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

At least they have an excuse for Lagares, trying to justify a contract that hasn’t worked out. But to even start whispering about Hansel Robles and his fastball spin rate as a precursor to giving him ANOTHER shot is mind boggling. Or would be with another front office.

But this is how they roll...of course Robles will get another look.  It takes the Mets so much to just fvcking move on from someone...what is so hard about holding SOMEONE accountable around here?  It's so goddamned infuriating. 

Lagares owns a lifetime .663 OPS and was at .661 last season.  He's about to enter his sixth...yes, his SIXTH...major league season.  But we're going down this route AGAIN?!  Lagares' contract is sh!tty and will remain so, because he never improved offensively and he can't stay healthy.  Stop trying to make fetch happen Sandy...for ONCE. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, '7' said:

I'd actually be ok with Robles as long as he's the absolute last man in the pen. I mean sometimes he gets on these nice littler runs where you can bring him in with the bases loaded and 1 out and he'll K two guys on 6 pitches. Then he'll be pointing up at 490ft home runs for the next two weeks. He has some ability, but come on he's a back of the pen reliever.

I used to let those runs build my optimism when it came to Robles, but I'm so done with him...he's a gutless punk who wilts in a lot of big spots, and does things to rile up opponents.  Guy is a loser, and for once the Mets need to stop stocking up on losers. 

['7']

Mets have signed Anthony Swarzak to a two year deal worth $14 million dollars. 32 years old and been pretty much a good year-bad year-meh year reliever throughout his career (as a lot of guys are)  His K's were quite good last year relative to innings pitched. He would give up his share of hits but last year those finally started to trend down as well.

Edited December 13, 2017 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 minutes ago, '7' said:

Mets have signed Anthony Swarzak to a two year deal worth $14 million dollars. 32 years old and been pretty much a good year-bad year-meh year guy. His K's were quite good last year relative to innings pitched

Pretty much a crapshoot kind of signing...the hope of course is that he has another 2017 kind of season in him (or 2013), because not much more that he's done has impressed much.  A very meh-ish move, but that's Sandy...wait meekly with your plate near the buffet while everyone else jumps ahead of you and gets the good stuff, then see what's left.   

Edited December 13, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Pretty much a crapshoot kind of signing...the hope of course is that he has another 2017 kind of season in him (or 2013), because not much more that he's done has impressed much.  A very meh-ish move, but that's Sandy...wait meekly with your plate near the buffet while everyone else jumps ahead of you and gets the good stuff, then see what's left.   

I would be so happy for Bruce & Kipnis right about now. Not that this is going to put us over the top but at least we could cross our fingers and hope if we have a reasonably healthy year...we may be playing meaningful baseball in September. If we strike out on both Bruce and Kipnis (and I don't love either guy, Bruce I fear would revert back to the hopeless no contact K machine he was for seemingly forever in 2016) then you may as well close the book on 2018 before it starts. Sloppy 2nds or 3rds. Whatever they are the Mets have to come out of this with an outfielder and 2B. Mets brass...don't even try to sell us on Reyes at 2nd. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I'd be fine with 2016 Kipnis...2017 Kipnis, not so much. 

Bruce on a multi-year four or five year deal would be terrifying.  He's slashed .237/.303./457 the past four seasons (though he's been pretty productive the past two seasons) and will be 31 when next year starts.  This is EXACTLY the kind of hitter I want the Mets to start steering clear of...especially for a team that won't even attempt to spend its way out of mistakes.  The Mets have tried how many of these low BA high K power guys...they problem with them is that they don't hit enough.  This team should try to build around speed and contact guys who hit doubles.  Enough with hitter who might jack 30 HRs and beat up on back-end BP guys.  Been there done that.

['7']

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'd be fine with 2016 Kipnis...2017 Kipnis, not so much. 

Bruce on a multi-year four or five year deal would be terrifying.  He's slashed .237/.303./457 the past four seasons (though he's been pretty productive the past two seasons) and will be 31 when next year starts.  This is EXACTLY the kind of hitter I want the Mets to start steering clear of...especially for a team that won't even attempt to spend its way out of mistakes.  The Mets have tried how many of these low BA high K power guys...they problem with them is that they don't hit enough.  This team should try to build around speed and contact guys who hit doubles.  Enough with hitter who might jack 30 HRs and beat up on back-end BP guys.  Been there done that.

Guys are out there (were) but once again we're not exactly shopping at Bergdorf Goodman. Marcell Ozuna...nope off to the Cards he goes. They want to win

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Not that this will ever happen, because it would require Sandy to care just the slightest bit, and some effort and creativity to boot, but I would love it if he looked into Christian Yelich.  Guy is a solid professional hitter who's signed for the next four seasons (and has an option for a fifth).  The yearly salaries go up each season, but none of them are obscene.  And he's only 26 (just turned). 

[NJDevs4978]

The Marlins claim they’re not dealing Yelich since he’s on a team friendly long term deal. The dude must feel like a hostage.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, NJDevs4978 said:

The Marlins claim they’re not dealing Yelich since he’s on a team friendly long term deal. The dude must feel like a hostage.

When it comes to the Marlins, you never say never about anything.  But yeah, guy is screwed if he's stuck there.  And unless the return is very good, it doesn't make sense to deal him...it's the fact that is contract is so team-friendly that makes him very appealing...that, and that fact he brings a little power AND hits the ball AND gets on base.  One of those guys who's probably a little underrated.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Any interest in Starlin Castro?  He's really not that great of a hitter, if you go by career OPS+...he's only a 98 (100 is average).  His main issue is that he doesn't walk much at all. 

['7']

Lukewarm interest in Castro. We'd get mocked for picking up the Yankees throw in from their Stanton trade...but he'd help. Would rather have either Kipnis or Neil Walker, though I think we'd get out bid for both

 

[NJDevs4978]

7 hours ago, '7' said:

Lukewarm interest in Castro. We'd get mocked for picking up the Yankees throw in from their Stanton trade...but he'd help. Would rather have either Kipnis or Neil Walker, though I think we'd get out bid for both

 

I don't even really think he's that great where we should be giving up big prospects for him (and sacrificing the pennies we have left on the budget for it).  .320 career OBP, never had more than 14 HR's in Chicago and not much more than that in the bandbox.

Quote

When it comes to the Marlins, you never say never about anything.  But yeah, guy is screwed if he's stuck there.  And unless the return is very good, it doesn't make sense to deal him...it's the fact that is contract is so team-friendly that makes him very appealing...that, and that fact he brings a little power AND hits the ball AND gets on base.  One of those guys who's probably a little underrated.

Seems like they're backing off on that a little and saying they'll talk with him first.  I mean at this point you might as well go all in on the White Sox/Padres approach and try to replicate the Astros and Cubs tankathon.  

Of course Ian Kinsler goes to the Angels while Rip Van Sandy's hibernating again, and apparently we're done shopping for relievers after Swarzak   It is kind of sad that when you look at Met GM resumes that freaking Steve Phillips has the best one post-Cashen (four straight winning seasons, two postseasons and a WS appearance).

Edited December 14, 2017 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I don't even really think he's that great where we should be giving up big prospects for him (and sacrificing the pennies we have left on the budget for it).  .320 career OBP, never had more than 14 HR's in Chicago and not much more than that in the bandbox.

Seems like they're backing off on that a little and saying they'll talk with him first.  I mean at this point you might as well go all in on the White Sox/Padres approach and try to replicate the Astros and Cubs tankathon.  

Of course Ian Kinsler goes to the Angels while Rip Van Sandy's hibernating again, and apparently we're done shopping for relievers after Swarzak   It is kind of sad that when you look at Met GM resumes that freaking Steve Phillips has the best one post-Cashen (four straight winning seasons, two postseasons and a WS appearance).

Yeah I'm not a big Castro guy myself (like we both noted, he doesn't get on base enough, and in three out of the last five seasons, he's put up an OPS+ of 93 or less, which is a bit scary...that's not too far from Juan Lagares territory), was just throwing the name out there, as he's a guy who could be available for not a whole lot, and only has a couple of years left on his deal ($21 million). 

If we had a GM who was more interesting in being proactive than cracking unfunny one-liners about why he's so useless, the Mets could have tried to make a deal for Yelich AND Castro...basically a "Look, we're willing to take Castro and his money off your hands, warts and all, because we really want Yelich."  What could the Mets offer back?  You'd probably have to go quantity over quality...and at least one good player would have to go the other way.  Conforto would have to be in the deal, as he's under team control for a while.  They'd probably want Rosario, but the Mets can't do that.  Can't see them wanting Dominic Smith, or if they do, they're going to want more than Conforto and Smith.  Maybe Nimmo (still not sexy, but trying to build a quantity deal with players who will cheap for quite a while) and a pitcher...deGrom and Thor are obviously off-limits, and they're not going to want free-agent-to-be and big-time question mark Harvey, so maybe you offer Gsellman (3.50 ERA in his final 8 starts).

So Conforto, Smith, Nimmo, and Gsellman for Yelich and Castro.  Feels like that might be too much, once I see the list...I think maybe I pull Nimmo back (I like the fact that he gets on base, and our OFs have a way of not staying healthy).  I'm basically offering an OF in Conforto who's a bit of a wildcard but has upside, a first baseman in Smith who appears to be close to ready to be given a legit shot to be an everyday guy, and a young pitcher who's been up-and-down but could become a decent starter...and none of them will kill the Marlins' purse-strings any time soon.  Feels like that's at least the starting point for a conversation. 

Phillips and Omar were far from perfect, but for the most part, you never got the impression that they weren't TRYING...hell, Al Friggin' Harazin TRIED...so did Jim Duquette, bad as he was.  Sandy comes off like a disillusioned miserable employee who hates his bosses and has decided that he's not going to bother anymore...basically "Go ahead, fire me, I don't give a sh!t."  I just wish the guy would do the right thing and fvcking RESIGN, today.  The Wilpons aren't smart enough to see through this charade, but Mets fans are.  Just like players, GMs can go through the motions too, and it's so painfully obvious that this is the case here.  It's not right and it's not fair to anyone involved...there are players on the Mets who clearly care a whole lot (deGrom, for one), and Sandy isn't even trying to do right by them.  It's a joke, it's annoying as hell, and even worse, it was completely predictable.    

['7']

To me Conforto is still pretty much off limits in any trade though I am a bit worried about him being the same after the injury (a typical only the Mets type injury) wonder if his swing will be permanently altered. The Marlins and Mets really aren't the most ideal trade partners. I think we'd be fine with jettisoning Dom Smith, but they have Bour. They could use a SS...but ours is untouchable. They need SP, but none of the guys we can give them can be relied upon to stay healthy.

If we want to nab Yelich we'll probably have to include either David Peterson or Justin Dunn, who are in our top 5 prospects (both pitchers) Flores would have to be in there too and then probably somebody like Matz AND Nimmo. And in return they can kick back to us Martin Prado.

Christian Yelich & Martin Prado

for

Wilmer Flores, David Peterson (Mets #2 organizational prospect), Brandon Nimmo, Steven Matz

[NJDevs4978]

The Mets pick another relief pitcher in rule V only to sell him - to THE ROYALS, who should be more frugal than us. You really can’t make this stuff up.