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New York Mets 2017-18 offseason thread


NJDevs4978
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Take it with a grain of salt since anyone that thinks we have five aces is probably living in two years ago, but if Harvey's really gonna have a comeback year at least it's good for us in 2018

(spoiler alert: the longtime enemy is Bobby Cox)

 

Edited by NJDevs4978
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Let me see it in the regular season.  Hard to have any faith in him, Matz, or Wheeler right now. 

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1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Take it with a grain of salt since anyone that thinks we have five aces is probably living in two years ago, but if Harvey's really gonna have a comeback year at least it's good for us in 2018

(spoiler alert: the longtime enemy is Bobby Cox)

 

It would be a dream (and a media sensation story) if the Dark Knight made a comeback. 

Tough to like him as a person. He's not a kid anymore and was still plagued by a lot of silly immaturity issues. His preparation and conditioning was an issue. Possible substance abuse, a lack of mental toughness. He hit baseballs rock bottom

We need a good full season. Not a good first inning where his velocity is there and then 4 straight doubles, not drinking himself into a stupor after Lima/Edleman. I want full dedication to his craft and no extracurricular stuff

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I was always impressed with the job Bobby Cox was able to do (really the whole Braves franchise, Schuerholz on down) they were in fact the Patriots of the NL East...but only the NL East as that success did not extend to the postseason. Certainly not after 1999. Their Brady was the entire pitching rotation (would not say it was Jones). But that was one well oiled regular season machine. And they always did do the little things well. Situational baseball, positioning outfielders, clutch late game hitting. It's astounding they only won it all once.

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3 minutes ago, '7' said:

It would be a dream (and a media sensation story) if the Dark Knight made a comeback. 

Tough to like him as a person. He's not a kid anymore and was still plagued by a lot of silly immaturity issues. His preparation and conditioning was an issue. Possible substance abuse, a lack of mental toughness. He hit baseballs rock bottom

We need a good full season. Not a good first inning where his velocity is there and then 4 straight doubles, not drinking himself into a stupor after Lima/Edleman. I want full dedication to his craft and no extracurricular stuff

Yeah, Matt Harvey the wanna-be alpha male is pretty much impossible to root for at this point...he should really try to model himself after deGrom, because in terms of pure guts and fight, deGrom is light-years ahead of Harvey. 

We'll see about Matt Harvey the pitcher...he's always had a lot of frontrunner in him, so hopefully he won't have to battle too much in his first several outings.  Because I think if he has a rough April, it will just snowball and not get better.  Going to make my bold call now:  I think he struggles and gets dealt sometime in June, for someone else with past success also enduring struggles. 

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1 minute ago, '7' said:

I was always impressed with the job Bobby Cox was able to do (really the whole Braves franchise, Schuerholz on down) they were in fact the Patriots of the NL East...but only the NL East as that success did not extend to the postseason. Certainly not after 1999. Their Brady was the entire pitching rotation (would not say it was Jones). But that was one well oiled regular season machine. And they always did do the little things well. Situational baseball, positioning outfielders, clutch late game hitting. It's astounding they only won it all once.

The only guy who really seemed to raise his postseason game was Smoltz...the exception was the 1995 World Series, where Glavine shined big-time.  Maddux and Glavine were definitely not as good overall come postseason as Smoltz, though Glavine was better overall than his 14-16 postseason record suggests (guy basically pitched a full regular season's worth of postseason innings...insane).  Ditto Maddux (11-14 postseason record), who's taken his fair share of criticism for his postseason performances.

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7 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah, Matt Harvey the wanna-be alpha male is pretty much impossible to root for at this point...he should really try to model himself after deGrom, because in terms of pure guts and fight, deGrom is light-years ahead of Harvey. 

We'll see about Matt Harvey the pitcher...he's always had a lot of frontrunner in him, so hopefully he won't have to battle too much in his first several outings.  Because I think if he has a rough April, it will just snowball and not get better.  Going to make my bold call now:  I think he struggles and gets dealt sometime in June, for someone else with past success also enduring struggles. 

Would not surprise me. I think the Mets will be good this year. How good? Who knows but I feel they will be in both WC and Division races. And if Harvey is bringing them down and still acting like a jerk, then it's time to cut ties and cut ties this year. He'll eventually wind up with the Yankees as a reclamation project.

Most in that locker room don't like, trust, or even respect the guy. He's got a lot of work to do.

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Bart Scott & Co on the WFAN yesterday suggested that the Mets should try to bring in Jake Arrieta on a one-year/$20 million deal.  I would do that in a heartbeat, but no way that Sleepy Sandy would ever consider such a renegade act. 

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Bobby Cox, in the same quote, also said the Mets have "Five No. 1 starters" so yeah... as much as I respect the old man, I'd take his opinion with a giant grain of salt.

Edit: I'm a doofus... missed that Hasan already mentioned that bit. Sorry.

Edited by nmigliore
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19 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Bart Scott & Co on the WFAN yesterday suggested that the Mets should try to bring in Jake Arrieta on a one-year/$20 million deal.  I would do that in a heartbeat, but no way that Sleepy Sandy would ever consider such a renegade act. 

Or the Wilpons okaying another $20 million on the payroll for that matter. 

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25 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Or the Wilpons okaying another $20 million on the payroll for that matter. 

It's OK, Mets already have Jason Vargas, lol.  Problems solved.

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Another sh!t outing for Matz. 

Nope, Mets don't dare at least consider the possibility of Arrieta on a one-year deal.  Maybe he has no interest on betting on himself, but could this sh!t franchise just for once not approach EVERYTHING like a fvcking small market team?! 

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Does Matz have options? This is getting ugly pretty fast and as underwhelming as the internal options are to replace him at least they have them. I’d actually rather give Holland $15 million than Arrieta $20, to get a real closer and maybe get Robles the fvck out once and for all.

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2 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Does Matz have options? This is getting ugly pretty fast and as underwhelming as the internal options are to replace him at least they have them. I’d actually rather give Holland $15 million than Arrieta $20, to get a real closer and maybe get Robles the fvck out once and for all.

You had me at get Robles the fvck out.  I can't stand that guy. 

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Quote

Still, Gonzalez has to arrive at 6:30 a.m. daily and do two hours of treatment on his back to be playable, and as we chat, sitting a few feet away is David Wright, a poster boy for how fickle and unforgiving back ailments can be.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/adrian-gonzalez-has-one-more-shot-to-avoid-becoming-extinct/

Yea this will work out great. 

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I can see the Mets looking at those innings the past few years with Arrieta and getting a bit scared. And the price tag. But I mean while they do point to a steady decline I would still trust him over Matz. Maybe they are waiting for a price tag drop? (who are we kidding of course that's what they're waiting for)

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4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

You had me at get Robles the fvck out.  I can't stand that guy. 

Yea I'm done with Robles but he's gonna be Mr. 10000 chances because the stuff is good, he's still 27, but the head is 10c. Not only that he's a cocky jerk whose antics are bound to get others hurt in retaliation

It's a pain in the ass when you have one of those guys who are good, but when they're inconsistent like Robles, I just don't have time for them.

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15 hours ago, '7' said:

Well as much as I know I sound like a broken record, this is how it goes when your GM is basically mailing it in but trying to put on a façade of "See, I'm doing stuff!" 

Really up to Smith to get his friggin' act together and make Gonzalez irrelevant, but at the same time he just seems to be a perma-goofus who won't ever quite get it...it won't surprise me if he again starts putting on the pounds during the season. 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Well as much as I know I sound like a broken record, this is how it goes when your GM is basically mailing it in but trying to put on a façade of "See, I'm doing stuff!" 

Really up to Smith to get his friggin' act together and make Gonzalez irrelevant, but at the same time he just seems to be a perma-goofus who won't ever quite get it...it won't surprise me if he again starts putting on the pounds during the season. 

I think what saves Sandy a bit with Smith is that nobody was really selected around his slot that has distinguished themselves in the majors left, so we don't have a "How could you take Smith instead of Player X" scenario. But it was such a perplexing pick. 6'0 for a 1b (you want guys taller who can bail out poor throws) weight issues, power issues. Just seemed like too much of a first round project who doesn't quite fit in todays game.

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Just now, '7' said:

I think what saves Sandy a bit with Smith is that nobody was really selected around his slot that has distinguished themselves in the majors left, so we don't have a "How could you take Smith instead of Player X" scenario. But it was such a perplexing pick. 6'0 for a 1b (you want guys taller who can bail out poor throws) weight issues, power issues. Just seemed like too much of a first round project who doesn't quite fit in todays game.

I was more ripping Sandy for bringing in Gonzalez...a bad seed who's declining and I'm sorry, Sandy's already seen what back issues can do to a player. 

Re:  Smith, I'm curious when the weight problems started.  I don't know if that was an issue for him prior to being drafted.  He is supposed to have a smooth glove and I like that he's shown an ability to hit for average and get on base...those are the kinds of hitters that Sandy should be bringing in (like we've all noted, Citi is just begging for a solid small-ball offense of higher-average and higher-OB% contact hitters...keep the train movin'), but nope, it's more of just the opposite.  Sure, why not, it keeps not working and it gets exposed against better arms constantly, but Sandy's smarter than everyone. 

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Mike Pelfrey retires (finally)...amazing his career lasted that long since he didn't throw particularly hard or left-handed, and only had a couple of good-decent seasons, but by god he got a lot of mileage out of being a good guy and a former first-round pick.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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10 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Mike Pelfrey retires (finally)...amazing his career lasted that long since he didn't throw particularly hard or left-handed, and only had a couple of good-decent seasons, but by god he got a lot of mileage out of being a good guy and a former first-round pick.

Yeah it really is baffling how he lasted that long...the one thing he was kinda-sorta good at was taking his turn in the rotation (six seasons of 29+ starts, though he had a couple of injury-shortened ones too), but there really wasn't anything about him worth getting excited over...he had those pretty good years in 2008 and 2010 (I kinda remember nmig at the time saying that he pitched into a lot of luck, similar to how Gee did before the bottom fell out), but it's scary how abysmal Pelfrey's numbers were from 2011-on:

159 G (143 Starts), 793.1 IP, 942 H, 480 R, 440 ER, 90 HR, 293 BB, 450 K, 1.56 WHIP, 4.99 ERA, 25-62 record

It's kind of amazing that the guy continued to find work for as long as he did, even as a stopgap guy. 

 

And due to Stephen King's book The Stand, when Pelfrey first came up, I kept thinking of him as Vic Pelfrey and not Mike Pelfrey (Vic is a character that appears in The Stand's first act).  Took a while to shake that, for some reason.

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Dog days of spring are upon us...Joel Sherman with a "I need something to write about" article wondering aloud if Cespedes is a detriment to the Mets, for a variety of reasons:

https://nypost.com/2018/03/07/are-yoenis-cespedes-camp-antics-a-mets-problem/

I'm not a big Cespedes guy and never really was (I always worried about his fat-cat potential once he got a long-term deal), and the way the Mets have operated makes it damned near impossible to ever truly give them the benefit of the doubt no matter what the issue, but I'm not sure if what Sherman writes about is as big of a deal as he wants to make it all sound in this case.   

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Yeah, even in those pretty good 2008 and 2010 seasons, Pelf had some good fortune going his way:

2008: 89 ERA-, 106 xFIP-

2010: 94 ERA-, 108 xFIP-

It's not like he was "bad" in those years by the advanced metrics, but they did see him more as a slightly below league average starter whereas by ERA he looked above average.

I think one season that's so easy to forget is 2012; it was only 3 starts, but I remember Big Pelf looking like a changed man in the spring, he came out of the gate that season throwing harder, and (again - super small sample size alert) the underlying numbers in those 3 starts were pretty damn good. Would things have gone differently for him had he not gotten hurt? Probably not, but you never know.

Also, Pelf retiring is starting to make ME feel old. It feels like yesterday he was making his MLB debut.. wow.

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This is really silly and definitely a dog days of ST type article that tries to stir things up. Cespedes is a bit goofy and we will have to deal with some brain farts this year. In the outfield he'll have balls fall at his feet that he misjudges. He'll get some late breaks on things. But it's not that he doesn't care it's just that he sometimes has a bit of space cadet in him. It's frustrating but it's easier to deal with than having guys who can be legitimate jerks in the clubhouse. The passive-aggressive sulking types.

Edited by '7'
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