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New York Mets 2017-18 offseason thread


NJDevs4978
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Not everyday that you pitch four scoreless to lower your ERA down to 15.88 (from 54.00)...but Matz did that today. 

Other than what I hear on the radio, admittedly I'm just not paying much attention yet. 

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Didn't want Arrieta for three years, so can't complain much about him not being a Met.

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13 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Didn't want Arrieta for three years, so can't complain much about him not being a Met.

It's 3 years and $75 million too...yikes.  I'd take Lance Lynn on his deal ten times out of ten over that, or even Vargas on his deal <shudder>

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4 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

It's 3 years and $75 million too...yikes.  I'd take Lance Lynn on his deal ten times out of ten over that, or even Vargas on his deal <shudder>

Couldn't agree with you more.  I would've taken Arrieta on a one-year show me/gamble on himself kind of deal for $20 million or so, but wow does it feel like the Phils overpaid...especially in this market.

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Looking at Arrieta's numbers a bit closer he had a very strong close to the season in 2017 (not so much W/L but his underlying metrics were good). 3 years is still too many in my mind. The contract does have opt outs I believe built in. There is something about him I have trouble trusting considering how wretched he was, how suddenly great he became. I don't think he'll ever see that kind of peak performance again and at 32+ the only thing that may happen is a continued decline. But how do we know those Orioles days of awfulness are gone forever? This guy was a nobody on the pitching scene until he was 27-28

All in all I'm not buying this early Phillies hype. 75 wins tops for them

Edited by '7'
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7 hours ago, '7' said:

Looking at Arrieta's numbers a bit closer he had a very strong close to the season in 2017 (not so much W/L but his underlying metrics were good). 3 years is still too many in my mind. The contract does have opt outs I believe built in. There is something about him I have trouble trusting considering how wretched he was, how suddenly great he became. I don't think he'll ever see that kind of peak performance again and at 32+ the only thing that may happen is a continued decline. But how do we know those Orioles days of awfulness are gone forever? This guy was a nobody on the pitching scene until he was 27-28

All in all I'm not buying this early Phillies hype. 75 wins tops for them

Arrieta's close isn't as impressive as some of the overall quick-glance numbers make it look.  He had a pretty crappy September (missed some time that month as well), and walked 10 batters in two postseason starts (though he did only allow one run in 10.2 combined in those two starts).  Plenty to be concerned about...he averaged well under 6 IP per start last season, and really only had two terrific months (July and August)...his IP have gone down in each of the last two seasons as well.  He's a mixed bag, which is why I definitely would've just given him a year and then moved on, even if he'd been a legit Cy Young Award candidate this season. 

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Phillies' rotation is going to be sneaky good, I think. Arietta, Nola is a very good 1-2 punch. Eickhoff and Velasquez are both decent starters as well. Then you have an improved lineup with Santana, a full year of Hoskins along with Herrera and Hernandez. Might be a sneaky wildcard contender

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25 minutes ago, Derlique said:

Phillies' rotation is going to be sneaky good, I think. Arietta, Nola is a very good 1-2 punch. Eickhoff and Velasquez are both decent starters as well. Then you have an improved lineup with Santana, a full year of Hoskins along with Herrera and Hernandez. Might be a sneaky wildcard contender

Don't know if I can go that far with them (still lots of question marks there), but if all goes very well, I can see them flirting with 80-82 wins.  I think it's still too early to hope for any kind of contention. 

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11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Don't know if I can go that far with them (still lots of question marks there), but if all goes very well, I can see them flirting with 80-82 wins.  I think it's still too early to hope for any kind of contention. 

How many good teams are there really in the NL? Cubs, Nats, Dodgers and? I like the Mets, Brewers and Cardinals more than them, but both of those teams have major ??? too

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12 minutes ago, Derlique said:

How many good teams are there really in the NL? Cubs, Nats, Dodgers and? I like the Mets, Brewers and Cardinals more than them, but both of those teams have major ??? too

Still feels like the Phils come up short to me.  But I'll give you that it's not like the NL is full of slamdunks.  If all goes well for the Mets, I have them at about 85-87 wins, so it's not like I'm expecting a whole lot out of them either.

If the Mets were really as down on Dom Smith as they seem to be, I really wish they'd had gone after Santana instead of Bruce...even though he doesn't hit for average, I love that he not only walks like crazy, but that he also doesn't strike out that much (by current-day standards)...he's drawn 726 walks and struck out 812 times in 4782 plate appearances...and averages 25 HR per 162 GP.  I can definitely live with those numbers from my first baseman, especially since he's pretty good defensively too. 

But we know the deal with the Mets...it's all about saving pennies while appearing to do something, so instead it's Bruce and Adrian Gonzalez. 

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1 hour ago, Derlique said:

Phillies' rotation is going to be sneaky good, I think. Arietta, Nola is a very good 1-2 punch. Eickhoff and Velasquez are both decent starters as well. Then you have an improved lineup with Santana, a full year of Hoskins along with Herrera and Hernandez. Might be a sneaky wildcard contender

They won't be close to a wild card. Eickoff and Velasquez still have to prove they're not terrible. I still don't think they're anywhere near what a healthy Mets or Nats teams can be. As CR said if EVERYTHING breaks totally great for them...I can see them going 80-82. Really I'd peg them for 74-88. There's just not much there.

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Philly will definitely be more competitive this season; I don't think they're quite good enough to sneak into the WC discussion, but I agree with the idea that they could flirt with .500. To me, the big battle in the NL will revolve around the 2nd WC spot. The Dodgers, Cubs, and Nats are in a tier above everyone; I would say the Cardinals are alone in a tier below that trio and the WC favorites*; after that... the Giants, D-Backs, Mets, Rockies, and Brewers all profile similarly - something between 81 and 86 wins. 

* - The Cardinals are very easy to overlook. They don't really have much star power (only four players project to be worth => 3 WAR and only one => 4 WAR), but they're just very solid all over. Every starting position player and rotation spot looks at least average to above average for them, and their bullpen looks good too.

Edited by nmigliore
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6 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Neil Walker to the Yankees lol, he definitely held it against us we nixed his trade there last year

I know he's a solid player, but 113 GP in 2016 and 111 GP last season was enough for me...just tired of guys never staying healthy around here.  32 years old and back problems are also enough for me to steer clear.  It's not a bad deal for the Yankees because they don't really need a ton from him, with the other bats they've got...and he only cost them $5 million for one season. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Just another day in Metland:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/mets-yoenis-cespedes-day-to-day-wrist-soreness-article-1.3872054

And for the love of god David, will you just go away already?  Or at the very least, listen to your body, which is friggin' SCREAMING to you that it doesn't want to play baseball...and even if you somehow ever overcome this latest setback, what then?  Sorry, I don't need to see you strike out in every key AB, or throw weak lollipops to first.  Just fvcking retire.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Mixed-bag kind of game for Matz (4.1 IP, 3 H, 3 BB, 5 K, 2 ER)...37 pitches thrown, 25 for strikes (not sure how accurate that is...could be wrong).  Montero came in to relieve and does what Montero does:  allow tons of bases runners via both hits AND walks.  He's pitching in the Land of 1000000 Chances and I get that he's depth, but you can't help but start to wonder how much longer it will be before the Mets actually dare to move on.  The guy made his debut on 5/14/2014, and when he's actually been healthy enough to pitch, has never been close to showing any consistent improvement.  Would just be nice to see the Mets actually say "OK, it's not going to happen with this guy", just once. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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8 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Just another day in Metland:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/mets-yoenis-cespedes-day-to-day-wrist-soreness-article-1.3872054

And for the love of god David, will you just go away already?  Or at the very least, listen to your body, which is friggin' SCREAMING to you that it doesn't want to play baseball...and even if you somehow ever overcome this latest setback, what then?  Sorry, I don't need to see you strike out in every key AB, or throw weak lollipops to first.  Just fvcking retire.

 

I can't even remember the last time Wright didn't have a setback. It's just one requisite setback after another. It's years of setbacks in a row. It's been so long and he can't' even do the most basic things. Very sad to see. Surely he knows the end is around the corner. 

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13 hours ago, '7' said:

I can't even remember the last time Wright didn't have a setback. It's just one requisite setback after another. It's years of setbacks in a row. It's been so long and he can't' even do the most basic things. Very sad to see. Surely he knows the end is around the corner. 

It is sad, but at this point it's also just becoming annoying.  He gave it the ol' college try multiple times...how many signs do you need that it's just not going to work out?  I'll say this much...though I'm not a huge Frazier guy due to the way he hits, at least the Mets have finally gone out and gotten a legit third baseman. 

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I love David Wright, he's my favorite New York Met of all time (you may snicker, but bare in mind my generation).... but yes, it's time to hang 'em up. The last 3-4 years have been sad to watch, it just needs to end.

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29 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

I love David Wright, he's my favorite New York Met of all time (you may snicker, but bare in mind my generation).... but yes, it's time to hang 'em up. The last 3-4 years have been sad to watch, it just needs to end.

Not at all...the guy was absolutely beastly from 2005-08 and looked like a possible future H-O-F.  The years after were very frustrating at times (mostly because he had such a penchant for coming up small in the most notable moments), but overall his slash could've been a lot worse...from 2009-2013 he slashed .293/.375/.479, which even with the constant failures in big spots, you'd still take that.

He was a class act too, and did a lot of things that I think he wasn't born to do, but he tried his very best to do them.  I don't think he was ever a natural leader, but being that there was no else that seemed willing to be one in his time on the Mets, he led the absolute best that he could to be one himself.  There's something significant to be said for making the attempt.  I can fully understand why you and others would embrace him.

But I don't ever need to see the 2016 version of David Wright again, the one that looked so feeble save for the random HR, the one that was just K'ing at such a scary rate (55 times in just 164 PA).  He tried to come back far longer than most people in the same situation would've dreamed of...but it's just not inspirational anymore.  Now it's just sad.  I used to identify him with the loser Mets, and man he drove me insane with all of those strikeouts with men on in his later years, but now I say offer him a position within the organization, because I think he deserves that.   

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Looks like Noah's ready to rock.  If he and deGrom can come out flying, Mets have a chance to get off a nice start...say .550-.560ish ball for April (that's a pace for about 90 wins).  I keep hearing how "great" Wheeler's looking in spring training this season, but the numbers sure don't support that...15 hits allowed in 8 IP.  Ditto Matz and Harvey.  You never want to make TOO much out of spring numbers, but until further notice, I don't know how anyone can regard the three of them as anything more than complete question marks. 

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