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New York Mets 2017-18 offseason thread


NJDevs4978
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I just don’t understand this love affair the Mets have for Bruce. He fits bet in the AL where he can split the between DH and OF, not in the NL. An outfield of Cespedes-Conforto-Bruce might hit well but man the outfield defense might be really ugly. The Mets needed a true CF and/or a true 1B. Bruce isn’t either of these things and neither is Conforto as a CF.

 

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Bruce may be a flawed player but they needed another big bat, I don’t think they’re getting more than 18-20 HR from anyone who doesn’t play outfield and I’m not even sure Conforto will be a consistent 30 HR guy unless he comes back 100% and the ball remains juiced.

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2 hours ago, nmigliore said:

I just don’t understand this love affair the Mets have for Bruce. He fits bet in the AL where he can split the between DH and OF, not in the NL. An outfield of Cespedes-Conforto-Bruce might hit well but man the outfield defense might be really ugly. The Mets needed a true CF and/or a true 1B. Bruce isn’t either of these things and neither is Conforto as a CF.

This feels like such a "See we spent some money we ARE trying, stop picking on us, aren't you happy now?" kind of move.  This is such a Sandy kind of move...lazy and uninspired, and almost an excuse to not have to do much more for the rest of the off season..."We made our big move now, we're ready for 2018!"

19 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Bruce may be a flawed player but they needed another big bat, I don’t think they’re getting more than 18-20 HR from anyone who doesn’t play outfield and I’m not even sure Conforto will be a consistent 30 HR guy unless he comes back 100% and the ball remains juiced.

Sandy has tried the "power first, second, and third, screw everything else" approach how many times since he's been here?  Heaven forbid he starts trying to build an offense better tailored to Citi (which is practically screaming for a smaller-ball kind of offense...at the very least, how about getting these arms some legit defensive support?  Why is this continually ignored by Maverick?!).  Great, the Mets will have their occasional fatten-up game and even some fatten-up stretches, but when Bruce goes cold, he goes COLD.  He doesn't bring enough outside of some HRs.  nmig is 100% right, Bruce was SO not what they needed, and the OF has defensive trainwreck written all over it.  In Sandy we trust...I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Oh I agree they should have more small ball players and I’ll roll my eyes if Cain doesn’t get much more than Bruce but by the same token the culture of baseball is going away from that as a whole and towards needing power - 2015 Royals aside but we know we’ll never have a team built that way with Sandy and company.

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What the team is really built on is fragile, talented hard throwing starting pitching. And we all saw what happens when you put all your eggs in that basket. The Cubs got it right. Long hair and triple digits fastballs turn heads...but they may not be there for you in August and September. Of course talent matters, but durability really matter nowadays. Just showing up and making your starts is half the battle.

And yea it discouraging that we couldn't have a cheap, young home grown OF bat right now so that the Bruce $ could've been better allocated to another part of the team that needs upgrading. That's on Sandy

Edited by '7'
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3 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Oh I agree they should have more small ball players and I’ll roll my eyes if Cain doesn’t get much more than Bruce but by the same token the culture of baseball is going away from that as a whole and towards needing power - 2015 Royals aside but we know we’ll never have a team built that way with Sandy and company.

I'm guessing when the Mets win less than 80 games next season and are below .500 well into 2019 and deGrom is asking to be dealt, Sandy will finally get the ax.  Hopefully whoever is crazy enough to work for the Mets as the next GM is willing to take a different approach towards building the team...hopefully placing his priority on speed, defense, and ability to get on base and put the ball in play...sure, some power's great too, but not at the expense of everything else...and with the right bats, Citi will yield plenty of doubles and triples.  It's ironic that after this much time, the Mets still haven't figured out how to build a team best suited to play in its home park. 

 

Just now, '7' said:

What the team is really built on is fragile, talented hard throwing starting pitching. And we all saw what happens when you put all your eggs in that basket. The Cubs got it right. Long hair and triple digits fastballs turn heads...but they may not be there for you in August and September. Of course talent matters, but durability really matter nowadays. Just showing up and making your starts is half the battle.

Not that this has led to any injuries directly, but how many times have these guys been on the mound longer than they needed to be due to the Mets either booting balls or not being able to get to them because of poor range?  Not to mention d'Arnaud is both a lousy defensive catcher who's never truly shown that he's capable of being cerebral enough to handle a pitching staff...when he's healthy enough to play.   

The whole approach is the same as it's often been with the Mets:  bury your head in the sand, ignore the flaws, and just hope for the best. 

   

 

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1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Oh I agree they should have more small ball players and I’ll roll my eyes if Cain doesn’t get much more than Bruce but by the same token the culture of baseball is going away from that as a whole and towards needing power - 2015 Royals aside but we know we’ll never have a team built that way with Sandy and company.

Did you want Matt Cain?  His numbers have been really bad the past three seasons...331 hits allowed in 274.1 IP, and a 1.575 WHIP.  He's probably as much of a reclamation project as Harvey is at this point.   

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24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Did you want Matt Cain?  His numbers have been really bad the past three seasons...331 hits allowed in 274.1 IP, and a 1.575 WHIP.  He's probably as much of a reclamation project as Harvey is at this point.   

Surely you jest, I was referring to Lorenzo Cain, who would have fit in CF and Citi like a glove but he’s not a Sandyball player.

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Just now, NJDevs4978 said:

Surely you jest, I was referring to Lorenzo Cain, who would have fit in CF and Citi like a glove but he’s not a Sandyball player.

Oh OK that makes a lot more sense...lmao...I thought you were referring to the Mets needing a veteran starting pitcher. 

Yeah I'm with you 100%, would've loved Cain, but he doesn't strike out a ton, hit under .250, not get on base, or butcher in the field, so of course Sandy wouldn't be interested.

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40 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

Fully agreed on Cain - he was the perfect fit here. So of course they go and sign a guy who is the exact opposite of a perfect fit. 

The more I think about the Bruce signing, the angrier I get...because it was SO wrong for what the team needs.  Mets are never winning a championship with Sandy running the show.  Never.

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Sandy's excited about d'Arnaud's progress...congrats Sandy, that makes one of you...one garbage-time month ain't fooling us:

https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/travis-d-arnaud-mets-sandy-alderson-1.16017308

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I'm kind of okay with the Mets going with d'Arnaud and Plawecki next year. I think they can squeeze enough out of both guys to get average production, maybe better if you're optimistic. If they had the cash to do it, Lucroy would be an interesting guy to look at on a 1-year pillow deal, but they have more pressing needs to address first IMO.

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11 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

I'm kind of okay with the Mets going with d'Arnaud and Plawecki next year. I think they can squeeze enough out of both guys to get average production, maybe better if you're optimistic. If they had the cash to do it, Lucroy would be an interesting guy to look at on a 1-year pillow deal, but they have more pressing needs to address first IMO.

It's not production that I'm worried about...they will probably be slightly below to slight above average at the plate as a tandem...it's more that d'Arnaud can never still healthy, and is really not good behind the plate when he plays.  Guys steal on him at will.

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Maybe the Mets did reach out to Cain and he wasn't interested...yea he would be a better fit but he just wasn't interested or didn't want to play in NY.

Reed is rumored to possibly return. Bruce did return. There were rumors about Walker.

The one guy who gets forgotten but was absolutely the right guy to bring back is Rene Rivera who just signed with the Angels. The pitchers loved him. Had some power.

d'Arnaud WILL get hurt. Will it be 40% of the season that he misses...or 60-70%? That's the only question. And his throws might end up in the chop shops beyond center field eventually.

Still not sure what to expect from Plawecki. He had a good 100 ab's for us last year. Let's see where he takes it from here.

Edited by '7'
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9 hours ago, '7' said:

Maybe the Mets did reach out to Cain and he wasn't interested...yea he would be a better fit but he just wasn't interested or didn't want to play in NY.

Reed is rumored to possibly return. Bruce did return. There were rumors about Walker.

The one guy who gets forgotten but was absolutely the right guy to bring back is Rene Rivera who just signed with the Angels. The pitchers loved him. Had some power.

d'Arnaud WILL get hurt. Will it be 40% of the season that he misses...or 60-70%? That's the only question. And his throws might end up in the chop shops beyond center field eventually.

Still not sure what to expect from Plawecki. He had a good 100 ab's for us last year. Let's see where he takes it from here.

Hard to give Passive the benefit of the doubt re:  Cain...if he was there for the taking at a reasonable contract, do you really think Sandy went all-out trying to bring him in?  Is Sandy even interested in or capable of going all-out anymore? 

Another issue I have with d'Arnaud and how Sandy views him is that d'Arnaud is treated like some 25 or 26-year-old prospect who's only had a couple of years in the majors.  He'll be 29 next month and is about to enter his fifth full season in the bigs...and his injury issues go all the way back to the minors.  He's also shown no improvement in any area since coming up...in his last two seasons, he's put up OPS+ of 72 and 91 (100 is average).  Maybe instead of being so fvcking lazy and just hoping for the best with d'Arnaud because it's convenient and easy, Sandy could explore trying to find someone who can at least stay healthy AND play some defense? 

I'll say this much...Plaw has an opportunity to take the job.  Sandy may want to make a big deal out of d'Arnaud's garbage-time surge, but not me.  It won't surprise me if d'Arnaud either does zilch at the plate or gets hurt holding in a sneeze in the first two months.  Plaw will then get his chance to show that he can build off last season, and not revert back to the offensive black hole that he was in 2015 and 2016.  My guess is Plaw will do enough to stick around in 2019 and beyond...maybe not as the #1, but as a reliable backup.  I think Travis FINALLY plays his way out of here...so much so that even Passive Uncreative can't give him yet another opportunity.

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22 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

By all means Sandy, bring back the one dimensional loser brigade. Let’s completely jump the shark and bring back Reyes and Walker too while we’re at it.

 

Wow...I never thought the Mets would sink that fvcking low.  In all my time in my sports fandom, I can honestly say I can't remember hating a GM as much as I despise Sandy.  Obviously the Mets have had their ups and downs with GMs, and both Omar and Phillips (despite having some success) could be irritating, but with Sandy it almost feels like he's flat-out TRYING to infuriate us...almost like it's a game.  If they bring back Lucas fvcking Duda...holy sh!t, I can't believe this could even be a thing.  

LUCAS fvckING DOOFUS?!  REALLY SANDY?!  F*CK OFF! 

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I like Duda as a person. Good guy. Tough to root against.

32. Big dude. Back issues. The batting average began to plummet. If he's beginning his descent into being a .200-.210 guy with even higher K's and just the odd solo bomb here or there...it's not going to be a happy reunion.

At least they understand the future isn't Dominic Smith.

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Just now, '7' said:

I like Duda as a person. Good guy. Tough to root against.

32. Big dude. Back issues. The batting average began to plummet. If he's beginning his descent into being a .200-.210 guy with even higher K's and just the odd solo bomb here or there...it's not going to be a happy reunion.

Duda is THE classic bad-team ballplayer.  You sign him if you don't anticipate contending anytime soon, but need to get by with someone who will put up some pretty good numbers (mostly doing his damage against below-average arms and in low-leverage spots, or with no one on base) and will at least give you some effort.  Look what he did with Tampa...of course he didn't even hit .200 with them.  Of course he struck out a ton.  That's what losers do when the stakes are raised, and that's why I don't want Sandy rolling the dice on yet another loser...especially one that figures to become even WORSE as he ages.  Just steer clear.

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12 minutes ago, '7' said:

I like Duda as a person. Good guy. Tough to root against.

32. Big dude. Back issues. The batting average began to plummet. If he's beginning his descent into being a .200-.210 guy with even higher K's and just the odd solo bomb here or there...it's not going to be a happy reunion.

At least they understand the future isn't Dominic Smith.

I’m skeptical of Dom myself but this is another thing that annoys me about the Mets, they continually put up roadblocks for the few younger players they do have. Not that Sandyball has been that great at drafting but still, it took forever to get Rosario up here. Even after Conforto splashed onto the scene in 2015 they were looking for the escape hatch at the first sign of trouble and didn’t even have a spot for him in 2017 till Ces got hurt. It’s as if they’re even more unwilling to live with growing pains than the fans. Maybe Sandy should take a closer look at the Yankees, they don’t have issues playing younger guys.

re: Dom having 150 AB or whatever it was, where he did at least hit for power, aren’t enough for me to say yeah he’ll never amount to much, just keep him in Vegas.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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7 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I’m skeptical of Dom myself but this is another thing that annoys me about the Mets, they continually put up roadblocks for the few younger players they do have. Not that Sandyball has been that great at drafting but still, it took forever to get Rosario up here. Even after Conforto splashed onto the scene in 2015 they were looking for the escape hatch at the first sign of trouble and didn’t even have a spot for him in 2017 till Ces got hurt. It’s as if they’re even more unwilling to live with growing pains than the fans. Maybe Sandy should take a closer look at the Yankees, they don’t have issues playing younger guys.

re: Dom having 150 AB or whatever it was, where he did at least hit for power, aren’t enough for me to say yeah he’ll never amount to much, just keep him in Vegas.

Name me one thing Sandyball has been good at, other than implementing the prior GM's players into the team, or turning a couple of that GM's established players into assets.  Sandy inherited a fair amount, but sure hasn't done much to augment.

I think Dom deserves a season to 1) show that he can both come to camp in shape and stay in shape for a full season, and 2) play with the big club and try to build off last season.  I think it's too early to just write him off...the guy did have a not-awful September, for what that's worth (.227/.306/.464 slash...that's not too far from holding your own, especially for a 22-year-old getting a taste of the majors for the first time).  At any rate, Sandy can't try to sell me off Smith because he wants to sell me ON Doofus.  fvck that.

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I'm probably the lowest on Smith but if your answer is going to be Duda, why bother? The range of outcomes between Duda versus Smith will likely be negligible. You're not signing Duda and banking on a 2- or 3-win upgrade to the roster, which is what the Mets need. Also, the Mets kind of have insurance for Smith with Bruce anyway, and in that scenario, their outfield defense would be much sharper by pushing Conforto rightfully to a corner and inserting Lagares in CF. 

As much as I would've liked to see the Mets upgrade 1B and maybe use Smith as a trade piece, I don't think the answer is out there. I really liked Carlos Santana but he's off the market now. Eric Hosmer is one of the most overrated players in baseball and he's going to get wildly overpaid. Logan Morrison was pretty good last season but how much of that was real after being terrible for years? After those two uninspiring guys, it gets even uglier. 

Edited by nmigliore
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7 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

I'm probably the lowest on Smith but if your answer is going to be Duda, why bother? The range of outcomes between Duda versus Smith will likely be negligible. You're not signing Duda and banking on a 2- or 3-win upgrade to the roster, which is what the Mets need. Also, the Mets kind of have insurance for Smith with Bruce anyway, and in that scenario, their outfield defense would be much sharper by pushing Conforto rightfully to a corner and inserting Lagares in CF. 

As much as I would like to upgrade 1B, I don't think that answer is out there. I really liked Carlos Santana but he's off the market now. Eric Hosmer is one of the most overrated players in baseball and he's going to get wildly overpaid. Logan Morrison was pretty good last season but how much of that was real after being terrible for years? After those two uninspiring guys, it gets even uglier. 

Agree with this post, might as well roll with Smith and Bruce.  Mets already proved they were never serious about trying to contend in 2018 anyway, so why waste what limited money the Mets have on Duda when Smith will be playing for pennies, and Bruce can approximate much of what Duda brings (though with less walks). 

As fed up as I am with Lagares' limp bat and yet another Met being gifted endless opportunities, the guy is a very good glove.  Mets need one somewhere.  Might as well be in CF.

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