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New York Mets 2017-18 offseason thread


NJDevs4978
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Gonzalez is going to be 36 this season and even if you want to write off 2017 as an injury plagued year...the needle was already pointing downward power wise in 2016. Not sure what to expect from him but I'm not optimistic he can provide much at all. Looks close to the end of the line. Who knows if he even makes the team

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What's scary about Gonzalez is that he showed signs of putting up 2017 numbers in 2016...from 8/24 on (35 games), he had a .228/.273/.350 slash (.622 OPS).  He followed that up with a .242/.287/.355 slash (.642 OPS) in 2017, so his performance over his last 106 games is pretty, well, awful.  Yet another bad Sandy signing. 

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17 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

What's scary about Gonzalez is that he showed signs of putting up 2017 numbers in 2016...from 8/24 on (35 games), he had a .228/.273/.350 slash (.622 OPS).  He followed that up with a .242/.287/.355 slash (.642 OPS) in 2017, so his performance over his last 106 games is pretty, well, awful.  Yet another bad Sandy signing. 

Plus his reputation as a sketchy locker room presence (very outspoken, opinionated) is what I've heard. Certain players he tends to rub the wrong way. I'm still not sold on him even making the roster but this signing...kind of wonder if Omar had a hand in nudging Sandy in this direction. 

Edited by '7'
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9 minutes ago, '7' said:

Plus his reputation as a sketchy locker room presence (very outspoken, opinionated) is what I've heard. Certain players he tends to rub the wrong way. I'm still not sold on him even making the roster but this signing...kind of wonder if Omar had a hand in nudging Sandy in this direction. 

Well, if Sandy's offseason basically amounted to signing an iffy reliever, a square peg-round hole Jay Bruce, and another guy who may not even make the team (though I'm guessing he will get at least half of 2018 to show what he has left)...I need not say more.

What's ironic is that Sandy, after doling out endless chances to just about EVERYONE else, suddenly decides that Dominic Smith isn't worthy of them.  I don't know what kind of player Dom's going to be, so I'm not saying that he should absolutely come to spring training with a job to lose...but it's just funny that even Ruben fvcking Tejada was gifted more opportunities than Smith.  Hell, even Hansel fvcking Robles continues to get how many chances? 

What's also funny is how you keep hearing behind the scenes how Sandy's energetic and wants to right this.  His moves say otherwise.  They reek of a guy who's just making some moves for the sake of making them, who's already mailed it in.  Zero creativity. 

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59 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Well, if Sandy's offseason basically amounted to signing an iffy reliever, a square peg-round hole Jay Bruce, and another guy who may not even make the team (though I'm guessing he will get at least half of 2018 to show what he has left)...I need not say more.

What's ironic is that Sandy, after doling out endless chances to just about EVERYONE else, suddenly decides that Dominic Smith isn't worthy of them.  I don't know what kind of player Dom's going to be, so I'm not saying that he should absolutely come to spring training with a job to lose...but it's just funny that even Ruben fvcking Tejada was gifted more opportunities than Smith.  Hell, even Hansel fvcking Robles continues to get how many chances? 

What's also funny is how you keep hearing behind the scenes how Sandy's energetic and wants to right this.  His moves say otherwise.  They reek of a guy who's just making some moves for the sake of making them, who's already mailed it in.  Zero creativity. 

And Addison Reed signed for something so reasonable. Where were we circling back with him? Not that he's Andrew Miller but bringing him back at the price the Twins did would've bolstered this pens depth.

It would impress me if Sandy can work out a trade for Travis Shaw out of Milwaukee (supposedly on the market if they land Moustakas) but again I think that would take too much creativity and work on his part. Also would slam the door shut on all things David Wright. And that door needs to be shut sooner than later.

What I hope is the previous excess chances to middling nobody's (Tejada, Eric Campbell etc) were more reflective of a team not expecting to compete and more patient...and the approach with Smith and all others after him will be "Produce or we'll look elsewhere".  

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I would say Swarzak is a likely downgrade over Reed.  But when you're counting pennies, these are the kinds of moves that get made.  Much more "Hope this works out"-type stuff.

The excess chances stuff has been a staple of Sandy's teams forever here...I think they're just very sour on Smith.  I can understand it to an extent...his gaining back a lot of weight in the regular season had to be frustrating...but I think it's a bit ridiculous how they're suddenly holding exactly ONE player accountable, when accountability has been so beyond non-existent during Sandy's time here. 

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3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I would say Swarzak is a likely downgrade over Reed.  But when you're counting pennies, these are the kinds of moves that get made.  Much more "Hope this works out"-type stuff.

The excess chances stuff has been a staple of Sandy's teams forever here...I think they're just very sour on Smith.  I can understand it to an extent...his gaining back a lot of weight in the regular season had to be frustrating...but I think it's a bit ridiculous how they're suddenly holding exactly ONE player accountable, when accountability has been so beyond non-existent during Sandy's time here. 

That's a good point there...it does send the wrong message to the locker room when accountability is so mixed like this...that some guys are viewed with a microscope while others like Harvey are/were afforded a much longer rope and gotten away with much more before any kind of discipline was levied. 

It's just dysfunction from the top. Fred and Jeff, it's how Ray Ramirez was here so long and how an antiquated doddering old fool like Jay Horwitz is somehow still employed despite the PR nightmare this franchise is.

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The Mets won't give up their prospects in trades, and then don't develop them and actually let them play.  The latest rumor is (per Rosenthal) that the Mets balked on including Brandon Nimmo in a possible McCutchen trade (before signing Bruce).  That's almost more offensive to me then crying poor, if you think Nimmo's going to be a viable player - I think he's more a fourth outfielder type but vaya con dios - you don't keep him blocked from playing forever with Bruce, Conforto and Ces all under contract the next three years.  It makes no sense to refuse to trade him if you're never going to play him.  Heck that was the rationale for trading Fulmer, cause we had pitching depth.  Maybe they felt burned by that and are now doubly concerned about keeping all their depth forever.  You can't be a win now team AND have depth.  Not when you don't have a limitless payroll and draft poorly.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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53 minutes ago, '7' said:

That's a good point there...it does send the wrong message to the locker room when accountability is so mixed like this...that some guys are viewed with a microscope while others like Harvey are/were afforded a much longer rope and gotten away with much more before any kind of discipline was levied. 

It's just dysfunction from the top. Fred and Jeff, it's how Ray Ramirez was here so long and how an antiquated doddering old fool like Jay Horwitz is somehow still employed despite the PR nightmare this franchise is.

Too funny '7', I was going to follow up my post with another...nope, Sandy won't make Thor get an MRI, nor get on Cespedes for anything, nor take Harvey to task soon enough...but now he'll pick on a minimum-salaried 22-year-old rookie.  Real tough guy, aren't ya Sandy?

re:  Nimmo, if you believe that McCutchen isn't really a CF anymore, and you're not sure about Conforto, and you're not a big believer in Lagares's bat, then I get hanging onto Nimmo in this case.  Doesn't mean that Has' post is inaccurate though.

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Yeah McCutchen would have (or should have) played RF here too just like Bruce.  Really didn't make a difference on that end, either way Conforto would be playing CF.  I'm not as down on Conforto playing CF as most but he has to actually you know, play first before I even have concern over where.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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What a shame, I would LOVE to have this guy here...but no way Passive Uncreative could ever find a way to make it happen:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22123963/christian-yelich-relationship-miami-marlins-irretrievably-broken-agent-says

I'd consider giving up Conforto and something else for him, I really would. 

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12 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

What a shame, I would LOVE to have this guy here...but no way Passive Uncreative could ever find a way to make it happen:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22123963/christian-yelich-relationship-miami-marlins-irretrievably-broken-agent-says

I'd consider giving up Conforto and something else for him, I really would. 

I'd be onboard...I mean in order for it to be a lateral-ish move we'd have to assume Conforto is exactly the same as he was pre injury, and I'm not sure he will. I HOPE he is, but we're the Mets and you just can't expect that.

Good for Yelich. What a hideous black hole the Marlins franchise is. He wants out and he wants to win

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Just now, '7' said:

I'd be onboard...I mean in order for it to be a lateral-ish move we'd have to assume Conforto is exactly the same as he was pre injury, and I'm not sure he will. I HOPE he is, but we're the Mets and you just can't expect that.

Good for Yelich. What a hideous black hole the Marlins franchise is. He wants out and he wants to win

I think it might appeal to the Marlins because Conforto doesn't go UFA until 2022...he'll be cheaper in the immediate future.  You are taking a gamble on him not being able to regain his pre-injury form though. 

Mets would get a CF who can field AND hit/get on base with some power, and at a very reasonable cost.  The issue would be (outside of Sandy not even bothering to investigate this) is that if I'm the Marlins, I try to get the Mets to take Castro off my hands too.  Castro has had some really shaky offensive seasons, even though he's a lifetime .282 hitter...he would fill a need at second base though, and the Mets would only have to pay him for two more years. 

Would you do something like Conforto/Smith/Nimmo for Yelich and Castro?  Tough call. 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I think it might appeal to the Marlins because Conforto doesn't go UFA until 2022...he'll be cheaper in the immediate future.  You are taking a gamble on him not being able to regain his pre-injury form though. 

Mets would get a CF who can field AND hit/get on base with some power, and at a very reasonable cost.  The issue would be (outside of Sandy not even bothering to investigate this) is that if I'm the Marlins, I try to get the Mets to take Castro off my hands too.  Castro has had some really shaky offensive seasons, even though he's a lifetime .282 hitter...he would fill a need at second base though, and the Mets would only have to pay him for two more years. 

Would you do something like Conforto/Smith/Nimmo for Yelich and Castro?  Tough call. 

Yea I may do something like that. Though I'm iffy on Castro...too many years of low OBP production. He's just not on base enough for my liking. Would actually want them to throw in Martin Prado. Other than last year he always made contact, always got on base, and plays a ton of positions.

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5 minutes ago, '7' said:

Yea I may do something like that. Though I'm iffy on Castro...too many years of low OBP production. He's just not on base enough for my liking. Would actually want them to throw in Martin Prado. Other than last year he always made contact, always got on base, and plays a ton of positions.

I'm not a Castro guy either (like I pointed out he's really not a good offensive player), but at least he can play SS or 2B.  And if FLA is going to be in full salary-dump mode, they're going to try to get a disgruntled Castro's money off their books.  That might have to be the price for snagging a cost-controlled and very reasonable Yelich and his contract.  The Mets would get a fine player in Yelich who's still young.  If you're trying not to give up too much in sure-thing players going back (and all three players the Mets would send the Marlins have question marks), you gotta help them out somehow.  Castro and his money wouldn't thrill me, but he's not completely useless, and does fit a Met need, warts and all. 

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And someone needs to tell Josh Harrison and his very ordinary .730 OPS and 95+ OPS over the last three seasons to STFU (he wants out of Pitt).  He can play multiple positions and he's good at not striking out as much as most of the league does, but he's not exactly anything special (low OB%s, mostly limited power).  Could be a useful utility guy on a good team though...if I had any confidence in him being able to repeat his 2017 season (.272/.339/.432), I'd be interested.  Not so sure I'd want the 2016 version though.  

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In general baseball news it looks like Rob Manfred will unilaterally impose the pitch clock with the strong disapproval of the players (and fans). These guys have their habits and rhythm and comfort is everything. Some guys take forever, others are quicker, but I really loved how baseball was the game without a clock. Now it'll have one

I wonder if enforcement of it will fade as the season goes on. It'll be one of those rules on the books that nobody follows, like the 3rd base coach having to remain in the coach's box.

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30 minutes ago, '7' said:

In general baseball news it looks like Rob Manfred will unilaterally impose the pitch clock with the strong disapproval of the players (and fans). These guys have their habits and rhythm and comfort is everything. Some guys take forever, others are quicker, but I really loved how baseball was the game without a clock. Now it'll have one

I wonder if enforcement of it will fade as the season goes on. It'll be one of those rules on the books that nobody follows, like the 3rd base coach having to remain in the coach's box.

Seems like hockey's attempts to increase scoring, which is pretty much just an inability of the league to accept the fact that the massive increase in the quality of goaltending is the reason why we're not going back to the days where every team has at least one 40 goal scorer. 

The length of baseball games has everything to do with starters not going nearly as long as they used to and the constant pitching changes after that.  This pitch clock will shave off maybe 5 minutes to a game at most, and if anything might make it worse with the managers and pitchers arguing with the umpires. 

Did they at least test it out in the minor leagues?

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1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Seems like hockey's attempts to increase scoring, which is pretty much just an inability of the league to accept the fact that the massive increase in the quality of goaltending is the reason why we're not going back to the days where every team has at least one 40 goal scorer. 

The length of baseball games has everything to do with starters not going nearly as long as they used to and the constant pitching changes after that.  This pitch clock will shave off maybe 5 minutes to a game at most, and if anything might make it worse with the managers and pitchers arguing with the umpires. 

Did they at least test it out in the minor leagues?

Lots more stepping out than there used to be...Wright would step out and re-adjust his gloves after every single friggin' pitch.  Francesa (not long before he mercifully left the airwaves) said he watched a game from the 60s, and was amazed how almost no one stepped out back then. 

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Rumors that the Mets might be interested in Colon.  For the love of god no!

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Chipper gets into the H-O-F, first ballot...no surprise there.  Not sure why Vladimir Guerrero didn't get in on his first try (outright lunacy if you ask me), unless he was docked for not being that great in the playoffs (more on that later), but at least he's in...another no-brainer.  Hoffman deserved it too, though after Rivera, everyone else seems like such a distant second, as far as closers go. 

As for Thome, he probably could've gotten in on the strength of his 1996-2006 seasons alone...hard to think that he wouldn't have gotten in had he retired after the 2007 season (he already had over 500 HR and H-O-F worthy glamour numbers).  Guy had an OPS of .995 and an OPS+ of 154 over those 11 seasons (take out his injury-shortened 2005 and his overall numbers for those seasons would be even better).  Also slashed .283/.414/.580 over that time, with 414 HR and 1177 BB.  He was always one of those guys who flew a little under the radar, maybe because he wasn't a beastly BA guy (though far from deficient) and because he could rack up the Ks (he struck out 2548 times in 2543 games).  He was one of those guys who one day you saw that he was coming up on 600 career HR (finished with 612) and said "Huh?"  One knock on him is that he wasn't nearly as good in the postseason:  in 71 postseason games, he slashed .211/.312/.448, though he did have a couple of big series in 1998 and 1999 (his team lost both of them)...he did also hit 17 HRs in those 71 games. 

To be fair, Guerrero wasn't a postseason beast either, with the exception of 2008 and 2009:  his regular season slash was .318/.379/.553 (.931 OPS, 140 OPS+) and his postseason slash was .263/.324/.339 (.664 OPS)...amazingly Guerrero had just 2 postseason home runs and seven doubles in 44 GP.  His power had a way of just disappearing in the playoffs. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Well if they were going to dock Vladi for not being good in the playoffs then Hoffman shouldn't be anywhere near the HOF.  I think it's more likely he just played in markets that weren't conducive to people paying attention to how good he was (and yes his teams not lasting all that long in the playoffs), and the fact almost everyone from the 'steroid era' is going to have an artificial wait - see Piazza, although there was more circumstantial evidence surrounding him than Vladi.

No real issue with anyone that got in, even Hoffman given how long he was consistent as a top closer but Edgar Martinez should have got in too.  Are they really waiting it out so that Papi (who has steroid suspicion himself) becomes the first DH voted in?

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And not that it's a big surprise but I missed it in my evening hibernation from the internet:

Also apparently the Brewers went nuts signing Lorenzo Cain (at least we know 5-80 was out of our small market price range, as the big market behemoth Brewers signed him) and trading for Christian Yelich :blink:

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