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NJDevs4978

NFL Week 13

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Little early for this thread but this discussion needed to go somewhere now that the Giants made Eli walk the plank, incredibly to start GENO SMITH.  Good god imagine if the Jets had pulled something like this, of course that would require the Jets having a two-time SB MVP to bench but still this is just another example of how the Giants have become more like the Jets than anyone wants to admit.  It'd be one thing if you were benching Eli for a first-round pick or if you were trying to sell Giant fans on Davis Webb...but Geno Smith, I just can't...:blink:

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Listening to the Fan and on twitter, it appears as if no one is picking up on the fact that benching Eli is obviously a tanking strategy to get one of the two QBs in the draft.  No one seriously believes that Geno “gives us a better chance to win.”  Giants could easily not win another game this season, which puts them at number 2.  And the guy they want could very well pull and Eli and say he won’t sign with the Browns leaving the Giants with the guy they want.  

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27 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Listening to the Fan and on twitter, it appears as if no one is picking up on the fact that benching Eli is obviously a tanking strategy to get one of the two QBs in the draft.  No one seriously believes that Geno “gives us a better chance to win.”  Giants could easily not win another game this season, which puts them at number 2.  And the guy they want could very well pull and Eli and say he won’t sign with the Browns leaving the Giants with the guy they want.  

If it was to tank why not just put Webb in?  I doubt he's going to be any better at this point with no offensive line and no weapons anyway, and they can at least pass it off as getting a look at the kid the way the Jets did with Petty the final few games last year.  Hell Eli himself hasn't been that good anyway if you wanted to tank, no reason to take him out while he sucks from that standpoint.  But to bench a guy of Eli's stature for a journeyman that's been universally mocked IN NEW YORK is such hideous PR you'd think it was orchestrated by the federal government.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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15 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

If it was to tank why not just put Webb in?  I doubt he's going to be any better at this point with no offensive line and no weapons anyway, and they can at least pass it off as getting a look at the kid the way the Jets did with Petty the final few games last year.  Hell Eli himself hasn't been that good anyway if you wanted to tank, no reason to take him out while he sucks from that standpoint.  But to bench a guy of Eli's stature for a journeyman that's been universally mocked IN NEW YORK is such hideous PR you'd think it was orchestrated by the federal government.

They’ve said that Webb will get some playing time.

You’re right it’s a PR disaster, and maybe they thought that enough people would understand it was for the long term good.  Let me put it this way, if it was Andrew Luck who was available in this draft, I think Francesca would be singing a different tune.  Darnold and Rosen aren’t Luck, but the principle is the same.

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13 hours ago, Daniel said:

Listening to the Fan and on twitter, it appears as if no one is picking up on the fact that benching Eli is obviously a tanking strategy to get one of the two QBs in the draft.  No one seriously believes that Geno “gives us a better chance to win.”  Giants could easily not win another game this season, which puts them at number 2.  And the guy they want could very well pull and Eli and say he won’t sign with the Browns leaving the Giants with the guy they want.  

re:  the bolded...then don't even say that.  Say that you're worried about all of the hits Eli's been taking behind a shaky offensive line.  Say you're thinking about next season and you want to get a look at Geno and Webb.  Why even imply that this 2-9 disaster is somehow Eli's fault? 

MacAdouche hasn't done anything to deserve getting the benefit of the doubt, though he clearly didn't come to this decision alone.  But he's been a complete buffoon as the Giants' HC this year, and this is just the latest case of that.  Eli's a friggin' Hall-Of-Famer who's not only had success, but had been as classy as a player can possibly be, and even yesterday refused to throw anyone under the bus (and hatred is so strong for MacAdouche that Eli could've broke character and trashed him, and the fanbase would've supported it 100%).  I'm not obviously not a Giants fan, but I've always had tremendous respect for Coughlin, Eli, and others for the way they did their thing, and for the way they beat the Patriots twice in the SB, fair and square.  And I think the way Eli has been treated here is simply awful.  Enjoy your last five games as a HC there Mac, because you ain't getting another HC job...unless it's for an organization like Cleveland.

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

re:  the bolded...then don't even say that.  Say that you're worried about all of the hits Eli's been taking behind a shaky offensive line.  Say you're thinking about next season and you want to get a look at Geno and Webb.  Why even imply that this 2-9 disaster is somehow Eli's fault? 

MacAdouche hasn't done anything to deserve getting the benefit of the doubt, though he clearly didn't come to this decision alone.  But he's been a complete buffoon as the Giants' HC this year, and this is just the latest case of that.  Eli's a friggin' Hall-Of-Famer who's not only had success, but had been as classy as a player can possibly be, and even yesterday refused to throw anyone under the bus (and hatred is so strong for MacAdouche that Eli could've broke character and trashed him, and the fanbase would've supported it 100%).  I'm not obviously not a Giants fan, but I've always had tremendous respect for Coughlin, Eli, and others for the way they did their thing, and for the way they beat the Patriots twice in the SB, fair and square.  And I think the way Eli has been treated here is simply awful.  Enjoy your last five games as a HC there Mac, because you ain't getting another HC job...unless it's for an organization like Cleveland.

It's gotten to the point where the Giants absolutely had to break with their tradition of never firing a coach mid season, but I think that time has passed. The Giants are such an image conscious franchise who try to appear so regal, orderly, traditional...this year it's fallen apart to the point where I can't ever remember them being so circus like. It's absolutely Idzik Jets level at this point. I never thought I'd say this. 

Eli I personally feel is exasperated with the whole thing though he'll never show it. He's being sunsetted out.

 

14 hours ago, Daniel said:

They’ve said that Webb will get some playing time.

You’re right it’s a PR disaster, and maybe they thought that enough people would understand it was for the long term good.  Let me put it this way, if it was Andrew Luck who was available in this draft, I think Francesca would be singing a different tune.  Darnold and Rosen aren’t Luck, but the principle is the same.

The bloom has come off the rose a bit for Rosen/Darnold. Folks were expecting an epic QB draft...it'll still be one but yes there are no Lucks to be found.

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

re:  the bolded...then don't even say that.  Say that you're worried about all of the hits Eli's been taking behind a shaky offensive line.  Say you're thinking about next season and you want to get a look at Geno and Webb.  Why even imply that this 2-9 disaster is somehow Eli's fault? 

MacAdouche hasn't done anything to deserve getting the benefit of the doubt, though he clearly didn't come to this decision alone.  But he's been a complete buffoon as the Giants' HC this year, and this is just the latest case of that.  Eli's a friggin' Hall-Of-Famer who's not only had success, but had been as classy as a player can possibly be, and even yesterday refused to throw anyone under the bus (and hatred is so strong for MacAdouche that Eli could've broke character and trashed him, and the fanbase would've supported it 100%).  I'm not obviously not a Giants fan, but I've always had tremendous respect for Coughlin, Eli, and others for the way they did their thing, and for the way they beat the Patriots twice in the SB, fair and square.  And I think the way Eli has been treated here is simply awful.  Enjoy your last five games as a HC there Mac, because you ain't getting another HC job...unless it's for an organization like Cleveland.

No one can ever admit they're tanking, even when that's obviously what they're doing.  Especially the coach. 

But you're right, I can't tell what's in it for Mcadoo to toe the company line at this point.  He was clearly getting fired at the end of the season PR disaster or no PR disaster.  At most he's deflecting the blame from the higher ups (Reese and the Maras), but that doesn't help a football coach keep his job especially when every fan and writer is calling you the biggest dope since Ray Handley.  Maybe it helps him get a coordinator job somewhere else where he has shown that he can at least be loyal. 

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If they're tanking, fine, and I know they would never admit it...but saying that GENO fvckING SMITH gives the Giants a better chance to win that Eli is just...I don't think there's a word or words strong enough.  Slap in the face, kick to the balls, you name it, that was just so wrong.  Benching Eli (especially with a clown like MacAdoofus involved) was never going to go over well, but they could've done it without insulting him.  There's video of Eli answering questions and fighting to hold back tears, and I really feel for the guy...not only was he completely able to handle NY and all that comes with playing in this area (in his uniquely affable and sometimes borderline goofy kind of way), he was friggin' SUCCESSFUL...not Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or bloated-stats successful, but he was a guy who handled pressure as well as anyone...probably even better than his sib.  '7' is right, in that the Giants organization absolutely lost something with the way this was handled, and it's going to take a long time for them to get it back.  Giants fans are going to remember this for a long long time.    

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16 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Little early for this thread but this discussion needed to go somewhere now that the Giants made Eli walk the plank, incredibly to start GENO SMITH.  Good god imagine if the Jets had pulled something like this, of course that would require the Jets having a two-time SB MVP to bench but still this is just another example of how the Giants have become more like the Jets than anyone wants to admit.  It'd be one thing if you were benching Eli for a first-round pick or if you were trying to sell Giant fans on Davis Webb...but Geno Smith, I just can't...:blink:

Though of course you can't rule out the fact that Geno may very well put up a 158.3 passer rating. That would be a very typical Jetlike occurrence 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If they're tanking, fine, and I know they would never admit it...but saying that GENO fvckING SMITH gives the Giants a better chance to win that Eli is just...I don't think there's a word or words strong enough.  Slap in the face, kick to the balls, you name it, that was just so wrong.  Benching Eli (especially with a clown like MacAdoofus involved) was never going to go over well, but they could've done it without insulting him.  There's video of Eli answering questions and fighting to hold back tears, and I really feel for the guy...not only was he completely able to handle NY and all that comes with playing in this area (in his uniquely affable and sometimes borderline goofy kind of way), he was friggin' SUCCESSFUL...not Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or bloated-stats successful, but he was a guy who handled pressure as well as anyone...probably even better than his sib.  '7' is right, in that the Giants organization absolutely lost something with the way this was handled, and it's going to take a long time for them to get it back.  Giants fans are going to remember this for a long long time.    

Yeah, maybe McAdoo's just incredibly stupid, a complete a$$hole, or a little bit of both.  Francesa's rant was one of his better moments, making the point that on his weekly call in, Francesa teed up many opportunities for Eli to take a swipe at McAdoo and he never took the bait.  In the meantime, McAdoo is subtlely trashing Eli almost after every single loss while not saying a word about OBJ's antics or calling out players on defense for quitting in the middle of games. 

Really, the better thing to have done would have been to hold a press conference, say that we've decided on a rebuild and that it's better for Eli to see if he can get a shot with another team and announce that he's being put on waivers.  That would have involved some short term PR pain (admitting to a need to rebuild in the middle of a season that a lot of people thought you could win the division) and perhaps more empty seats, but not the embarrassment the team's facing now.

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23 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Yeah, maybe McAdoo's just incredibly stupid, a complete a$$hole, or a little bit of both.  Francesa's rant was one of his better moments, making the point that on his weekly call in, Francesa teed up many opportunities for Eli to take a swipe at McAdoo and he never took the bait.  In the meantime, McAdoo is subtlely trashing Eli almost after every single loss while not saying a word about OBJ's antics or calling out players on defense for quitting in the middle of games. 

Really, the better thing to have done would have been to hold a press conference, say that we've decided on a rebuild and that it's better for Eli to see if he can get a shot with another team and announce that he's being put on waivers.  That would have involved some short term PR pain (admitting to a need to rebuild in the middle of a season that a lot of people thought you could win the division) and perhaps more empty seats, but not the embarrassment the team's facing now.

As far McA-clueless goes...he fully cemented his spot as the most despised Giant HC, right along with Ray Handley...hell, McA-dope might have even surpassed him, for the reasons you posted. 

Agree, let Eli basically go to Jacksonville (Tom C & Co would snatch him up in a heartbeat) for the rest of the season, give Webb the five games, and call it day...if anything, instead of the Giants franchise being squarely in the fans' crosshairs, much of the fanbase would probably root for Coughlin, Eli, and the Jags for the rest of this season, and put their all-in Giant fandom on hold...basically, they'd become Eli fans until Jacksonville's season is over.  Same fans might even think the Giants did the right thing by at least giving Eli another chance in a better situation (and whoever thought going from the Giants TO the Jags would ever be seen as a better situation?).  But yeah, couldn't have botched this whole thing any worse than they have.     

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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The only time Francesa is listenable at all these days is when he has something to rant about...that was a way of eliminating the brutal stammers and "uuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh"s that have become his true trademark over the past several years...of course, he still repeats himself constantly when ranting, but that becomes more tolerable when he gets on a roll. 

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The only time Francesa is listenable at all these days is when he has something to rant about...that was a way of eliminating the brutal stammers and "uuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh"s that have become his true trademark over the past several years...of course, he still repeats himself constantly when ranting, but that becomes more tolerable when he gets on a roll. 

This was vintage Francesa yesterday. It may be the last epic Francesa rant we get to hear, sadly lol.


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Just now, MadDog2020 said:

This was vintage Francesa yesterday. It may be the last epic Francesa rant we get to hear, sadly lol.

I've said this before, but for me he really can't be gone fast enough.  He does have some classic rants, but those are the only moments that he really comes close to "shining" anymore.  He's a terrible speaker now and really has been for several years (brutal stammering, inarticulate and repetitive, and not very good at forming complete sentences without a lot of "I mean"s and Butthead-like "uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh"s).  He had no business trying to do a show without a partner (solo Mike is really much too much Mike for most people to take...he was much better with someone to interact with), but his ego wouldn't allow him to work with someone else.  Much of his "analysis" consisted of him making a simple point, then repeating that point in a slightly different way at least 10 more times...or stating something that was blatantly obvious as though it needed a thorough explanation.  His interview skills were pretty bad too...he constantly trampled over his subjects' answers, quite often to show everyone listening "See see I know details of this story too!  I can prove it...let me interrupt my guest to show you!"  And heaven forbid he might ever admit that he was ever wrong about ANYTHING (and he was, a lot).  In a way I find him fascinating, because I've never seen someone who is so not good at his job have so many people telling him how awesome he is and how much they'll miss him...even as he's stuttering and talking down to them like they're nothing.   

He was an awful listen and was only getting worse...it's been long past time for him to go.  Did I listen to him?  At times, yeah...mostly to hear him rant when I knew he'd have something good to rant about (like yesterday), or to see if he might wind up getting someone of interest on the WFAN.  But I could only take him in short bursts.  I would usually turn him off within a half-hour, tops.

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I've said this before, but for me he really can't be gone fast enough.  He does have some classic rants, but those are the only moments that he really comes close to "shining" anymore.  He's a terrible speaker now and really has been for several years (brutal stammering, inarticulate and repetitive, and not very good at forming complete sentences without a lot of "I mean"s and Butthead-like "uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh"s).  He had no business trying to do a show without a partner (solo Mike is really much too much Mike for most people to take...he was much better with someone to interact with), but his ego wouldn't allow him to work with someone else.  Much of his "analysis" consisted of him making a simple point, then repeating that point in a slightly different way at least 10 more times...or stating something that was blatantly obvious as though it needed a thorough explanation.  His interview skills were pretty bad too...he constantly trampled over his subjects' answers, quite often to show everyone listening "See see I know details of this story too!  I can prove it...let me interrupt my guest to show you!"  And heaven forbid he might ever admit that he was ever wrong about ANYTHING (and he was, a lot).  In a way I find him fascinating, because I've never seen someone who is so not good at his job have so many people telling him how awesome he is and how much they'll miss him...even as he's stuttering and talking down to them like they're nothing.   
He was an awful listen and was only getting worse...it's been long past time for him to go.  Did I listen to him?  At times, yeah...mostly to hear him rant when I knew he'd have something good to rant about (like yesterday), or to see if he might wind up getting someone of interest on the WFAN.  But I could only take him in short bursts.  I would usually turn him off within a half-hour, tops.

You're preaching to the choir CR, you pretty much nailed it... I've found myself listening to him less and less over the last couple of years. Kay and the Traitor (Former Devils fan turned Rag shill LaGreca) are a much better listen, and a lot of the time in the car during football season I listen to WQAM in Miami on my phone for Fins talk. Francesa is a brutal listen now- he's even difficult to hate-listen to because of how bad he is at this point. He's like just about any older, washed up iconic athlete- still some great moments from time to time (like yesterday's rant), but a train wreck most of the time.


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5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

You're preaching to the choir CR, you pretty much nailed it... I've found myself listening to him less and less over the last couple of years. Kay and the Traitor (Former Devils fan turned Rag shill LaGreca) are a much better listen, and a lot of the time in the car during football season I listen to WQAM in Miami on my phone for Fins talk. Francesa is a brutal listen now- he's even difficult to hate-listen to because of how bad he is at this point. He's like just about any older, washed up iconic athlete- still some great moments from time to time (like yesterday's rant), but a train wreck most of the time.

Crazy as this may sound, it wouldn't surprise me if he was starting to have age-related mental issues (and he might know it himself, which could factor into why he's leaving)...when he's not ranting, there's been a number of times where he seems to lose his train of thought in mid-sentence (leading to those brutal "uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh"s and "I mean"s...he struggles in debates now too...sometimes it seems like his only defense is to shout over his callers.  He's spent a large chunk of his life grossly overweight...it wouldn't surprise me if his overall health wasn't the best. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Crazy as this may sound, it wouldn't surprise me if he was starting to have age-related mental issues (and he might know it himself, which could factor into why he's leaving)...when he's not ranting, there's been a number of times where he seems to lose his train of thought in mid-sentence (leading to those brutal "uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh"s and "I mean"s...he struggles in debates now too...sometimes it seems like his only defense is to shout over his callers.  He's spent a large chunk of his life grossly overweight...it wouldn't surprise me if his overall health wasn't the best. 

I wouldn't be surprised if his health is playing a role in his stepping away- and I agree he's not exactly the sharpest tack on the wall mentally anymore either. Not saying he's going senile or anything, but he does seem to have those lost trains of thought more often than he used to. It's not like he needs the money either- he's better off riding off into the sunset and spending some quality time with his family. Maybe he'll end up doing a podcast like everyone else in America lol.


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17 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:


I wouldn't be surprised if his health is playing a role in his stepping away- and I agree he's not exactly the sharpest tack on the wall mentally anymore either. Not saying he's going senile or anything, but he does seem to have those lost trains of thought more often than he used to. It's not like he needs the money either- he's better off riding off into the sunset and spending some quality time with his family. Maybe he'll end up doing a podcast like everyone else in America lol.


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He always denied it, but apparently his ratings were slipping in recent years.  So probably his money demands would not have been worth it for FAN.  FAN also seems to be going to the ESPN douchiness route with his replacements instead of giving the slot to Joe and Evan.  If you want to get a sense of where sports radio is going, just know that FAN's first choice to replace Francesa was actually Adam Schein.   

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He always denied it, but apparently his ratings were slipping in recent years.  So probably his money demands would not have been worth it for FAN.  FAN also seems to be going to the ESPN douchiness route with his replacements instead of giving the slot to Joe and Evan.  If you want to get a sense of where sports radio is going, just know that FAN's first choice to replace Francesa was actually Adam Schein.   

Sports radio is pretty much garbage now. Another medium that's been diluted down to cater to the dumbest among us.

 

 

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On 11/28/2017 at 5:18 PM, NJDevs4978 said:

Little early for this thread but this discussion needed to go somewhere now that the Giants made Eli walk the plank, incredibly to start GENO SMITH. Good god imagine if the Jets had pulled something like this, of course that would require the Jets having a two-time SB MVP to bench but still this is just another example of how the Giants have become more like the Jets than anyone wants to admit.

A quick way for me to end my boycott, would be for the Jets to pick up the phone and get Eli Manning in here for 2018. You think a guy like that wants to move his wife and 3 children to Florida? Doubtful. -- Pick up the phone Mac. We finally got some nice weapons here in Kearse, Anderson, Enunwa, Kerley and a TE.

Edited by Beezer34

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3 hours ago, Beezer34 said:

A quick way for me to end my boycott, would be for the Jets to pick up the phone and get Eli Manning in here for 2018. You think a guy like that wants to move his wife and 3 children to Florida? Doubtful. -- Pick up the phone Mac. We finally got some nice weapons here in Kearse, Anderson, Enunwa, Kerley and a TE.

going to take more than just a qb beez. u need defense. giants are proving that

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On 12/1/2017 at 10:36 AM, Beezer34 said:

A quick way for me to end my boycott, would be for the Jets to pick up the phone and get Eli Manning in here for 2018. You think a guy like that wants to move his wife and 3 children to Florida? Doubtful. -- Pick up the phone Mac. We finally got some nice weapons here in Kearse, Anderson, Enunwa, Kerley and a TE.

The ultimate troll job would be for the Jets to sign Eli and leapfrog the Giants in the draft to steal the QB the Giants want.  Have Eli be the starter for 2018, and be better than the Giants in the short term and long term.  

I hate the Jets, but I would have a new found respect for them if they could pull that one off.

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