About the Schneider deniers..

[Neb00rs]

He's been good. I've even seen him handle the puck a few times without completely fvcking it up.

That said, the Devils are scoring goals this year, and that has been a big part of them winning games.

[Nicomo]

14 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Not that I didn’t know it, but that’s really sad to read like that. 

The good news is this year has been MUCH better in that department. Pretty sure they’re top10 in GF atm. 

[mfitz804]

8 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

The good news is this year has been MUCH better in that department. Pretty sure they’re top10 in GF atm. 

Yup, I’m 12 lol. 

[Devs3cups]

IMO Cory is a top 6-7 goalie in the NHL. No reason to hate on him. He is one of the best right now. And him giving up softies here and there is normal, every goalie does.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Devs3cups

[Triumph]

22 minutes ago, Neb00rs said:

He's been good. I've even seen him handle the puck a few times without completely fvcking it up.

That said, the Devils are scoring goals this year, and that has been a big part of them winning games.

They're playing horrific defense as well and Schneider is what's keeping them in games even with the great offense.

[Nicomo]

45 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Yup, I’m 12 lol. 

[Neb00rs]

1 hour ago, Triumph said:

They're playing horrific defense as well and Schneider is what's keeping them in games even with the great offense.

I don't deny there's something to that.

Cory is middle of the pack as far as save percentage goes this year (14th, minimum 10 GS) but there may be something to be said for that the only goalies that have faced more shots per game than Cory (33.28 SA/G, .918) and have maintained a higher save percentage are Roberto Luongo (35.92 SA/G, .927), John Gibson (34 SA/G, .919), and Frederik Andersen (33.68 SA/G, .919).

Cory's even strength save percentage (.929) is also 8th in the league (minimum 10 GS), which goes to a point in your OP.

[Marshall]

According to Corsica, when accounting for some of the shot quality (distance, angle, rebound, shot type etc), Schneider's expected ES SV% is 91.9%. He's at 93.3%, so he's performing better than expected. Kinkaid too is performing better than expected. 

Curiously, his low danger save% is quite low, (29th out of 36 goalies with 400 mins), while his medium danger is great - 2nd out of 36. Middle of the pack in terms of high danger save%. 

[Satans Hockey]

I know I'm getting way ahead of myself but I'd love to see this team and make the playoffs and see Cory steal a series. He deserves it especially because he seems like an amazing team player that never throws anyone under the bus. 

[Nicomo]

21 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

I know I'm getting way ahead of myself but I'd love to see this team and make the playoffs and see Cory steal a series. He deserves it especially because he seems like an amazing team player that never throws anyone under the bus. 

Yeah, I’ll be equally happy for Cory and Hall if they finally get a taste of the playoffs this year. 

[Jersey Sure]

I'm shocked this is even a thing.  This guy is a quality NHL goalie, and we are fortunate to have him.  He signed an extension, and then the team went into re-build mode.  He very easily could have finessed his way out behind the scenes, but he stayed with it.  He deserves a playoff appearance and the chance to have some post-season moments for this team.

I don't see this on this blog.  And that makes sense.  This is the best discussion Devils blog, to me. And I find the conversations as close to how I would talk to anyone I go to or watch a game with.  Which I can't really say for the Corsi is all type blogs.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

59 minutes ago, Jersey Sure said:

I'm shocked this is even a thing.  This guy is a quality NHL goalie, and we are fortunate to have him.  He signed an extension, and then the team went into re-build mode.  He very easily could have finessed his way out behind the scenes, but he stayed with it.  He deserves a playoff appearance and the chance to have some post-season moments for this team.

I don't see this on this blog.  And that makes sense.  This is the best discussion Devils blog, to me. And I find the conversations as close to how I would talk to anyone I go to or watch a game with.  Which I can't really say for the Corsi is all type blogs.

It's been brought up before, but one thing that was cool about both Schneider AND Hall is that apparently neither player was looking to bail on the Devils after last season...even though Hall was still dealing with some emotions about having been dealt from Edmonton, both players made it clear to the Devils that they very much wanted to be the answer in the helping this team to get over the hump, and back to being competitive. 

On that front, hallelujah that Schneids, Hall, and the team are off to a strong start...if there's two guys that I think really NEEDED this, it's Schneids and Hall. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDfan1711]

I like Schneider.  I think he's been a quiet and dependable goalie for us these past few years.  It wasn't going to be easy stepping into a role after possibly the greatest goalie to ever play the game.  To that point, I think he's done a fine job to this point, especially playing on some pretty bad teams up until now.  He's still fairly young and I'm excited that we're finally headed in the right direction and hopefully we will give him a chance to show what he can do and potentially where he can lead us for a few more years before he eventually enters a decline in his career the way Marty did.

I don't particularly have a problem with the soft goalies Cory gives up from time to time.  They might seem more than some others, but overall I wouldn't say it's enough to the point where it's alarming or anything like that.  Also, while he doesn't seem to make many acrobatic or show-stopping saves the way Brodeur did, probably because that's just not the style of goal he plays, I do think he's pretty sound fundamentally, in the way he approaches shots and is square to the shooter, and I that it makes up for things he lacks in other areas, i.e. maybe giving up a softy here and there. 

The one gripe I have with Schneider, and maybe I'm not alone in this, so please tell me if anyone else has noticed this, BUT... whenever there is a scramble around the net, or he happens to go down, particularly on his side, back, or sprawling out in a manner like that, I feel like he can be VERY slow to get up.  And VERY slow to react and get back into position.  I see it a lot when he is far out to one side of the net, perhaps after he just dove for a puck or something, and the play goes to the other side of the net or rink, and he just seems so slow going post-to-post.  It's odd.  Sometimes I look at it and I'm like "what is he doing?", "why doesn't he care?", or "why isn't he moving faster"?  but I don't know, maybe that's just me.

That's about it though.  Everything else considered, as CR said, we could have it a lot worse, and I'm thankful we have a reliable guy between the pipes.

[SterioDesign]

judgement towards a goalie is always unfair cause they are expected to be perfect and they mistakes are directly affecting the score. But to be fair Schneider misjudging a shot and getting beat above the pad shouldn't be any different than a player flubbing a shot or missing the net. And we see this happening every single game, the only thing is that we don't see it the same way.

[MadDog2020]

Wow... I mean... Wow.

 

 

Woops, wrong thread. Meant this for the Rico trade thread.

 

 

[bobilly45]

I still maintain Schneider is no greater then an average to slightly (very slightly) above average goalie.  He's in a good stretch right now, but his rebound control has been brutal throughout his time here. He's very slow on net mouth scrambles when he drops into the butterfly and moves slower then most other butterfly goalies side to side.  His stick handling, while improved isn't really that good, even compared to kinkaid.  My concern is that he's not prone to those big clutch saves when the team needs it. 

I don't judge goalies off of their statistics, as if you face majority of easy shots (shots from blue line, soft shots, shots to chest or glove that involve 0 movement), your stats will show you're a great goalie (maybe bc I'm a goalie, i look for other qualities then #s).  Then you get to games where you have grade a shots coming, need to make those hard clutch saves and cant, your numbers would still look good based on those other game.  Numbers don't tell the full story about any athlete.  

Marty was clutch and elite, quick, Roy the same.  As much as it pains me to say it Lundquist (while not so much this yr) has been clutch, single handly carries the team, esp when they were in the finals A few yrs ago.  He was elite, a level that as of now Schneider hasn't shown (doesn't mean he can't get there, but as of now hes not close).

Also saw before people.saying the 3rd goal against was weak...  while It didn't look good, it actually wasnt weak.  The puck was shot, banked off Greene to the shooter,who  was moving forward to shoot at a bad angle.  The goalie (esp butterfly) go down on signs of the 1st shot.  It's hard to get back in time, when you can't see the puck bounce off the skate and see the skater still with the puck while being down. He Still came close, but couldnt get it.  The 1st goal that night was weak, 2nd and 3rd were on greene.

[Triumph]

1 hour ago, bobilly45 said:

I still maintain Schneider is no greater then an average to slightly (very slightly) above average goalie.  He's in a good stretch right now, but his rebound control has been brutal throughout his time here. He's very slow on net mouth scrambles when he drops into the butterfly and moves slower then most other butterfly goalies side to side.  His stick handling, while improved isn't really that good, even compared to kinkaid.  My concern is that he's not prone to those big clutch saves when the team needs it. 

I don't judge goalies off of their statistics, as if you face majority of easy shots (shots from blue line, soft shots, shots to chest or glove that involve 0 movement), your stats will show you're a great goalie (maybe bc I'm a goalie, i look for other qualities then #s).  Then you get to games where you have grade a shots coming, need to make those hard clutch saves and cant, your numbers would still look good based on those other game.  Numbers don't tell the full story about any athlete.  

Marty was clutch and elite, quick, Roy the same.  As much as it pains me to say it Lundquist (while not so much this yr) has been clutch, single handly carries the team, esp when they were in the finals A few yrs ago.  He was elite, a level that as of now Schneider hasn't shown (doesn't mean he can't get there, but as of now hes not close).

Also saw before people.saying the 3rd goal against was weak...  while It didn't look good, it actually wasnt weak.  The puck was shot, banked off Greene to the shooter,who  was moving forward to shoot at a bad angle.  The goalie (esp butterfly) go down on signs of the 1st shot.  It's hard to get back in time, when you can't see the puck bounce off the skate and see the skater still with the puck while being down. He Still came close, but couldnt get it.  The 1st goal that night was weak, 2nd and 3rd were on greene.

Those of us with long memories will recall that the Devils were horrendous in playoff OT with Brodeur as goalie.  He recovered in his later years, but he still ended up 16-23 in playoff OT for his career.  That seems decidedly unclutch to me.  Now people who have even longer memories will say, what about the offense?  And yeah, the Devils offense was terrible in OT - there's plenty of double OT and triple OT losses in there.  Brodeur's save percentage is probably comparable to his career SV%.  But when you don't get offense, it is very easy to appear unclutch.  That's what's gone on with Schneider.

Roy I believe was well above .500 in playoff OT and I bet he had the opposite thing happen - his teams scored at a way higher rate than expected, most likely.  The goalie can only do one thing.

[Steven M.]

calling someone clutch is pretty subjective to opinion anyway. we call Henrique a "clutch" player because of three goals. One being a shot he just threw on net against Florida, one cleaning up the garbage against the rangers, and one snipe to keep us alive in the SCF. Cory has never had a chance to create those kind of moments. Maybe soon he will be.

We're all pretty spoiled, really. One of Lou's last great moves was acquiring Cory. Think about a team like Philadelphia. Above average for years now (maybe not this year... though they are young like us, just not gelling it seems) but never have the goaltending. I was born in 1990. I have literally never seen a season where we didn't have top quality goaltending. Last year is the closest thing, and I don't know how much of it I can attribute to solely Cory because the entire team was a dumpster fire.

Cory has probably been our best, most consistent player since we traded for him. We're lucky to have him.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 hours ago, Steven M. said:

calling someone clutch is pretty subjective to opinion anyway. we call Henrique a "clutch" player because of three goals. One being a shot he just threw on net against Florida, one cleaning up the garbage against the rangers, and one snipe to keep us alive in the SCF. Cory has never had a chance to create those kind of moments. Maybe soon he will be.

We're all pretty spoiled, really. One of Lou's last great moves was acquiring Cory. Think about a team like Philadelphia. Above average for years now (maybe not this year... though they are young like us, just not gelling it seems) but never have the goaltending. I was born in 1990. I have literally never seen a season where we didn't have top quality goaltending. Last year is the closest thing, and I don't know how much of it I can attribute to solely Cory because the entire team was a dumpster fire.

Cory has probably been our best, most consistent player since we traded for him. We're lucky to have him.

Cory's only "flaw" (besides not playing up to his standard for a large chunk of last season) is that he's been stuck on some hideous Devils teams.  Tri pointed out where the team ranked in offense from year-to-year...no goalie is going to flourish under those circumstances, almost never having any real margin for error.  And now Cory's facing a very high volume of shots, behind a D that gives up its share of prime scoring opportunities.  Cory in general has been more of a victim of circumstances than some major problem.   

As for Rico and clutch...he's really being blown up to be a lot more than he was in that regard.  It was only a few weeks ago that everyone was complaining about invisible he had become, before the 4th-line demotion...hell, prior to this season, he never really got all that many SOG (1.78 per game prior to this year...he's actually just over 2.00 SOG per game so far this year...a feat he's never managed over a full season to date).  The Ranger goal was a great memory and always will be, and like I said in the trade thread, he'll be a part of Devil folklore forever, for three reasons:  1) the goal, 2) the opponent, and 3) Doc's incredibly memorable call.  He's had some very nice moments, but I don't think of Rico as being this killer clutch player.     

Edited December 1, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[EdgeControl]

I think cory is a very good technical butterfly goalie.. the one thing he lacks is pure size.. believe it or not 6-2 ish is short for QBs and NHL goalies these days.. this leave the over the shoulder and post shots as  reactive saves .. hes solid with the leather , we can win with him.. he just seems to think he covers more of the net than he does for a positional goalie

Edited December 1, 2017 by EdgeControl

[Derlique]

IIRC, some Canucks fans were happy to rid themselves of Schneider because he had anxiety in Game 6 in the first round vs. Chicago, which forced him to leave the game. They used that episode to reason that Cory couldn't deliver a cup. 

Schneider has been fantastic this year and anyone saying otherwise is fooling themselves. He's the reason why we haven't been talking about the defense being an absolute disaster. Hopefully Vatanen will help keep the puck out of our end and help with zone exits- something we've been getting destroyed in all season.

['7']

18 hours ago, Triumph said:

Those of us with long memories will recall that the Devils were horrendous in playoff OT with Brodeur as goalie.  He recovered in his later years, but he still ended up 16-23 in playoff OT for his career.  That seems decidedly unclutch to me.  Now people who have even longer memories will say, what about the offense?  And yeah, the Devils offense was terrible in OT - there's plenty of double OT and triple OT losses in there.  Brodeur's save percentage is probably comparable to his career SV%.  But when you don't get offense, it is very easy to appear unclutch.  That's what's gone on with Schneider.

Roy I believe was well above .500 in playoff OT and I bet he had the opposite thing happen - his teams scored at a way higher rate than expected, most likely.  The goalie can only do one thing.

Brodeur allowed some absolutely brutal OT goals in the playoffs. Terrible goals. In every overtime period.

If you look at the Devils offensive rankings during the years in which we lost those bad OT games...we were pretty much always average to above average. They do take some of the blame as well. Tough to fault Brodeur for the 4OT Buffalo game. The two Matteau losses he was brilliant in both games though both should've been stopped. But there are a lot of bad one's sprinkled among those. Graves in 97, Yashin and Bruce Gardiner, 57 OT losses to Carolina, Steve Thomas, Salei....

Jury is still out on Schneider we've never seen him in a playoff situation for us. As a pure puck stopper I do have faith in him. Though as stated before his rebound control does bother me at times. He does drop and search for the puck a bit much for my liking while Brodeur rarely did that and was more fluid in his goaltending. 

Brodeur always made us nervous in OT, especially when somebody like Bates Battaglia and Nic Wallin would streak down the wing with fire in their eyes. I don't think I'll feel the same way about Schneider. We'll see.

Also let's not forget some late game stuff as well. Some irritating last minute (and second) tricklers through his pads to Staal and Jagr

Edited December 1, 2017 by '7'

[AEWHistory]

On 11/29/2017 at 3:50 PM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I think we all kind of felt that he had to be around .920 for the Devils to have a real shot at the playoffs (he's at .919 for his Devils career).  He's at .918 right now (13th among guys who've played about the same number of games). 

He’s .001 down from his Devs career average!?  He is clearly finished... over the hill.  No way he comes back from that massive hole.

[AEWHistory]

On 12/1/2017 at 12:29 AM, Steven M. said:

calling someone clutch is pretty subjective to opinion anyway. we call Henrique a "clutch" player because of three goals. One being a shot he just threw on net against Florida, one cleaning up the garbage against the rangers, and one snipe to keep us alive in the SCF. Cory has never had a chance to create those kind of moments. Maybe soon he will be.

We're all pretty spoiled, really. One of Lou's last great moves was acquiring Cory. Think about a team like Philadelphia. Above average for years now (maybe not this year... though they are young like us, just not gelling it seems) but never have the goaltending. I was born in 1990. I have literally never seen a season where we didn't have top quality goaltending. Last year is the closest thing, and I don't know how much of it I can attribute to solely Cory because the entire team was a dumpster fire.

Cory has probably been our best, most consistent player since we traded for him. We're lucky to have him.

It is a shame you missed the HoF career of Alain Chevrier.  He was truly a monster in goal.

 

In all seriousness, even at the Devs worst we’ve been fairly lucky in the goaltending dept.  You’d have to go back to Hardy Astrom, IMHO, for when we really we talentless in net except for the Chevrier ‘era.’  And the Swedish sieve really played for the Rockies, not the Devils.  Otherwise we’ve had (in no particular order): Resch, Terreri, Burke, Billington, McLean, Dunham, and finally Brodeur.  All of those guys had decent to amazing nhl careers.  In fairness, I don’t think any of them were not capable starters even though Terreri and Billington only ever started for a few seasons in their careers.  So these guys basically represent nearly the entirety of Devs goaltending history.  I think we’ve had it pretty good even when the team was bad almost everywhere else.  Of course, those bad teams made some of the goalies look bad as well (resch being the prime example).

Edited December 11, 2017 by AEWHistory