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Pavel Zacha

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3 hours ago, Mike Brown said:

IKonecny on the Flyers has very similar numbers as Zacha, and Flyers fans were so convinced Konecny would be so much better than Zacha.  

He has been a lot better than Zacha.

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zachas 6-3 , hes never going to be nico or bratt in terms of suddenness   after 15 years they are trying to change the way he plays and its not working, imo.  the message has been sent to his agent, go find a team.. but they're making it more difficult..  Its not a matter of feeling sorry, it should be fielding the best team on the ice, and theres where hynes is a hypocrite 

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6 hours ago, Marshall said:

He has been a lot better than Zacha.

Konecny has been better by a hair, you're talking a difference in .03 points per game. I don't consider Konecny's .38 points per game at the NHL level to Zacha's .35 points per game as "a lot better", they're on par with each other.

Edited by CommonDreads

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The good news is that Zacha being a bust probably won't kill the team in the long term.  (The other good news is that it's the last time Conte screwed over the organization).  The bad news is that you probably can't pull off something magical like Griffin Reinhart for what turned into Matt Barzal.  Chiarelli can only be duped if the guy he's getting is a defenseman. 

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if he could get his sh!t together just enough to be a good trade asset lol i'd trade him for a good young Dman and bring up Q or McLeod instead.

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I think it's time to switch him to the wing and just let him do his thing.  He almost seems paralyzed out there overthinking the play when he's at C.   He looked great in the 1 period he got on wing with Hall and Hischier at the end of the Blues game last week. 

That being said, it's way to early to give up on a guy that was considered somewhat of a project when we drafted him.  Everyone knew, or at least should have known, there was a little more development time involved in this one.          

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Didn’t he have a pretty good preseason? Was he playing C the whole time?

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1 hour ago, EdgeControl said:

zachas 6-3 , hes never going to be nico or bratt in terms of suddenness   after 15 years they are trying to change the way he plays and its not working, imo.  the message has been sent to his agent, go find a team.. but they're making it more difficult..  Its not a matter of feeling sorry, it should be fielding the best team on the ice, and theres where hynes is a hypocrite 

They're trying to change the way he plays because he's scoring at a 4th line rate over his career at ES.  I don't think it's unreasonable to want more out of a guy with his talent level.

1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

Konecny has been better by a hair, you're talking a difference in .03 points per game. I don't consider Konecny's .38 points per game at the NHL level to Zacha's .35 points per game as "a lot better", they're on par with each other.

Konecny generates more chances 5v5 and has 31 ES points.  A lot better might be strong, but certainly better.

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15 minutes ago, Triumph said:

They're trying to change the way he plays because he's scoring at a 4th line rate over his career at ES.  I don't think it's unreasonable to want more out of a guy with his talent level.

I'm not defending his play.. I've already said he looks excruciatingly uncomfortable away from the puck, and his stamina is garbage... it's no longer about turning him into something, let him play only because he's better than a few others... it's not like he's a minus ten..  if not, then cut him  he's not tradable like this..

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1 hour ago, CommonDreads said:

Konecny has been better by a hair, you're talking a difference in .03 points per game. I don't consider Konecny's .38 points per game at the NHL level to Zacha's .35 points per game as "a lot better", they're on par with each other.

It is not because you are not factoring in ice time nor the situations they're playing in. 

Zacha is below 1 point per 60 minutes at even strength for his career. Since he entered the league, among forwards with minimum 800 minutes of ice time, that ranks 354th out of out of 393 players, which is a whisker from being below a 4th liner. Konecny ranks 214th and has produced 1.47 points per 60, which is good 3rd line production and close to low end 2nd line. 1.47 vs 0.91 points per hour over 1100 minutes is significant and not close.

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The issue I have with his quotes to the media is that nearly every other player seems to have bought in completely and is on the record as saying things like "it's black and white" as to what the coach needs them to do. What's not to understand? Why is every other player on the roster getting it but him? I understand that every player is going to go through their struggles and maybe some of these responses are taken out of context but I'm just not liking the vibe I get from him. If he truly worked his ass off he'd be in the lineup.

In a season full of plenty of positives, Zacha has to be the biggest disappointment. I also don't think it's time to give up on him but he's running out of time. Quennville is banging on the door and McLeod will be NHL ready come next training camp.

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The good news is that Zacha being a bust probably won't kill the team in the long term.  (The other good news is that it's the last time Conte screwed over the organization).  The bad news is that you probably can't pull off something magical like Griffin Reinhart for what turned into Matt Barzal.  Chiarelli can only be duped if the guy he's getting is a defenseman. 

Shero should give Bergevin a call. He's as big a moron as there is among the 31 GM's lol.


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I mean WRT Zacha's comments... just look at the difference in what Pavel is saying versus Santini, someone who is also struggling to stay in the lineup at times:

Quote

“I wouldn’t say it was wearing on me mentally,” Santini said. “We have eight very good defensemen and only six can play. I’ve had pretty good communication with the coaching staff and nobody is mad with me or upset with me. I’ve got to take it up a notch and help the team any way I can. It’s nothing personal.”

With Zacha... it does seem personal. Like he thinks they just have it out for him.

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28 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:


Shero should give Bergevin a call. He's as big a moron as there is among the 31 GM's lol.


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I think that ship has sailed too.  He messed up the Subban situation so badly that I think that even he knows that he'll get fired if he makes a deal where it's even perceived that he got fleeced.  So the Drouin trade was a very good hockey trade for both teams.  Without the Subban deal in the background I could have seen him giving up a whole lot more to get french speaking scoring forward like Drouin. 

Notice how even Sakic held out a really long time to get the right deal for Duchene. 

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I wonder though why they don't send him to Binghamton to play and get his confidence back. To have him sit and watch is the worst thing you can do to somebody who is already down.

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1 hour ago, Steven M. said:

The issue I have with his quotes to the media is that nearly every other player seems to have bought in completely and is on the record as saying things like "it's black and white" as to what the coach needs them to do. What's not to understand? Why is every other player on the roster getting it but him? I understand that every player is going to go through their struggles and maybe some of these responses are taken out of context but I'm just not liking the vibe I get from him. If he truly worked his ass off he'd be in the lineup.

In a season full of plenty of positives, Zacha has to be the biggest disappointment. I also don't think it's time to give up on him but he's running out of time. Quennville is banging on the door and McLeod will be NHL ready come next training camp.

I think it's easy to forget that 20-year-olds don't always get it (or can come off that way)...I think it's also hard for some to hear, for possibly the first time in their lives, that they're not good enough.  In exactly 100 OHL games (regular season and playoffs combined) Zacha poured in 52 goals and added 62 assists for 114 points.  Up here it's clearly been a much different story (to be expected of course, at least initially), and I often wonder how much that weighs on a kid...when things came a lot more easily and his best or even a good bit less than that was plenty good enough, but suddenly it's flat-out not. 

He's played in 70 out of 82 games last season, and 21 out of 27 this season...well over 80% of the Devils' games.  He's gotten a nice long look.  I think sometimes, you gotta show some trust in your coaches that they know what they're doing, that not every kid who's not getting into the lineup is getting screwed or mistreated by default.  It sounds like not only is getting through to Zacha difficult, but that the Devils are willing to be as hard on him for as long as they have to be for him to get the message.  Sometimes you really do have to go through such extremes to get through to someone.  The fact that he hasn't been sent down to Bingo makes me think that the Devils are still very hopeful that he can start to figure things out though, in the not-too-distant future. 

I'm still hopeful myself, but more and more, it wouldn't surprise me much (especially if the Devils are only getting better as the season rolls on, but with Zacha is becoming less and less of a factor) if Shero moved him as some part of a package in a deadline deal, for someone signed beyond this season who can jump right into the lineup and help...Zacha obviously wouldn't be the key piece, and I could see Shero offering a deal, then the other GM coming back with "well, we'd like Zacha too" (not like big centers picked #6 overall are available constantly, why not ask?), Shero saying "OK, then send this my way", then a deal getting done.  Sadly it also wouldn't surprise me much if, some time from a now, a 26-year-old Zacha looks like his NHL career is over, after getting chances with 3 or 4 teams, but never able to put it all together for long.  And there's a thread titled "What happened with Zacha?" where we're all chiming in on why he didn't live up to his promise. 

Why would all of this happen?  Because I'm starting to get a gut feeling that Zacha and the Devils just aren't going to click.  Sometimes that just happens...not every player and every franchise were meant to be together.  Would be great if my gut turns out to be wrong.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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6 minutes ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

tools player still trying to locate the toolbox. One may not exist. 

I wouldn't sell low on him for help even this year, we're still stockpiling. 

For a rental, no.

For a guy signed for 2-3 years, maybe. 

I get stockpiling, but I'm keeping an open mind.  He still has time to bring his value up too.  Not saying he's absolutely gotta go at the deadline, just saying that it wouldn't shock me if Shero moved him...especially since he's clearly not adverse to making big moves.

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I think some people are reading way too much into these Zacha quotes. Santini has a different situation because he has been relied on heavily for much of this season. He was out of the lineup for a short time, he reflected on what he needed to do, and now he's coming back with new perspectives. It would be a different story if he had been coming out of the lineup repeatedly, and then consistently given fewer minutes than almost every other player in the games he has played. You really can't compare his situation to anyone else's on the team right now, so the Santini comparison isn't a fair one.

The only thing Zacha said is that he's frustrated. It's not like he said that the team is being unfair or that he deserves more. That article from the OP has a quote along the lines of "I'm not happy with my performance and I'm not happy about being out of the lineup." I don't know where all this talk about it being personal came from. He put the blame on himself. And frankly, just because he isn't trained to say the perfect Crosby-esque response to the media does not mean he feels any different from other guys who have been in similar situations.

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11 minutes ago, nessus said:

I think some people are reading way too much into these Zacha quotes. Santini has a different situation because he has been relied on heavily for much of this season. He was out of the lineup for a short time, he reflected on what he needed to do, and now he's coming back with new perspectives. It would be a different story if he had been coming out of the lineup repeatedly, and then consistently given fewer minutes than almost every other player in the games he has played. You really can't compare his situation to anyone else's on the team right now, so the Santini comparison isn't a fair one.

The only thing Zacha said is that he's frustrated. It's not like he said that the team is being unfair or that he deserves more. That article from the OP has a quote along the lines of "I'm not happy with my performance and I'm not happy about being out of the lineup." I don't know where all this talk about it being personal came from. He put the blame on himself. And frankly, just because he isn't trained to say the perfect Crosby-esque response to the media does not mean he feels any different from other guys who have been in similar situations.

If he left it at that it would have been fine, but he continued..I don't know what's going on, I haven't talked to anyone, yadda yada that's whinning..  I don't think it was that bad from a 20 year old European... others do..

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Anybody who complains about his role/team/coach/whatever to the media...at this point in his career...MAJOR MAJOR red flag.

 

-Todd

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2 hours ago, Jas0nMacIsaac said:

Maybe moved for Hayden Fleury, Carolina has too many defensmen.

What would we have to add for Hanifin, in your opinion?

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7 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Why would all of this happen?  Because I'm starting to get a gut feeling that Zacha and the Devils just aren't going to click.  Sometimes that just happens...not every player and every franchise were meant to be together.  Would be great if my gut turns out to be wrong.

At the same time Shero has weeded out most of Lou/Conte's remaining... especially the dead weight. So i could see him not being that high on Zacha as he didnt even "really" drafted him

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