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NFL 2017 Offseason

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On 1/15/2018 at 6:38 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Tomlin is a moron and highly overrated in some circles for sure.  Big Ben threw him under the bus yet again after the game.  

I've been saying it for years :P Tomlin out...Cowher will slide right back in

It is time to make the change right now as far as I'm concerned. That teams gotten to the promised land with Tomlin...they won't get back there though. He's at the end of his life cycle as Steelers coach.

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For all this talk about how desirable the mighty lordly Giants job is...ending up with Pat Shurmur is nothing special. Patricia and McDaniels were the top two guys they wanted and whiffed on both.

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19 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Yeah I legit thought he could leave for the Giants. But alas, the nightmare that never ends will march on, with no end in sight. God do I hope Jacksonville beats them by 70. And since there's no chance of that, hopefully they get punked in the Super Bowl. But we all know that isn't happening either.

I didn't think BB was going anywhere, but at the same time, it looks like a 100% certainty that he's losing both his OC and his DC.  I'm obviously not a big Patricia guy, but at the same time there's no guarantee that his replacement will be as good or better. 

As much as Brady looks ageless at the moment, I think when he does finally decline, it will happen very fast (like it did with Peyton, though he was clearly more banged-up).  I don't think this window is going to be open that much longer...not with Brady as the starting QB in the fold...realistically you can't possibly expect to get more than two more Brady-like years out of him, absolute tops (I think it will be one more myself).  Where the Pats are kind of screwed in the near-future is they put a lot of time into developing Garoppolo, and are going to have to start from scratch with someone else.  That's not always easy to do. 

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17 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

As much as Brady looks ageless at the moment, I think when he does finally decline, it will happen very fast (like it did with Peyton, though he was clearly more banged-up)

It's not happening fast enough. It needs to happen soon. Like, starting this weekend. I know you're a Pats fan, but for the rest of us, Belichick and Brady are a case of herpies that's always inflamed and never goes away.

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Brady is a proud athlete, I believe if he notices something slipping and can't regain it he will retire before he slipping too noticeably. He is not going to look like end of the line Ali, Messier, or Gretzky out there.

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9 minutes ago, '7' said:

Brady is a proud athlete, I believe if he notices something slipping and can't regain it he will retire before he slipping too noticeably. He is not going to look like end of the line Ali, Messier, or Gretzky out there.

In fairness to Gretzky, he didn't look bad at the end; he was just playing on a bad team, and with players who didn't complement him well at all.  His prior two years were very respectable. 

What's sticky is that if Brady is struggling in Week 4 or 5 in 2018 or 2019, a guy like him will (understandably) get the rest of that year to try to figure things out, unless it gets really ugly...especially if there isn't a decent backup behind him...I don't ever see him retiring in-season.  But if they win a sixth SB (or even if they don't), if you have to deal with one (or even two) rocky seasons at the end of Brady's career, so be it.  Small price to pay.   

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Brady is a proud athlete, I believe if he notices something slipping and can't regain it he will retire before he slipping too noticeably. He is not going to look like end of the line Ali, Messier, or Gretzky out there.

Brady is one of the guys who will be the last to know, like Marty. He'll play through the downswing at first, and blame those around him for not doing their jobs when things go wrong. Once NE cuts him, the message may seep through, but, like Marty, he may decide to catch on somewhere else if anyone will take him.


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I think Brady still has a while to go.  He has really good genes where he doesn't even look like he's aging.  You might think he's a lot younger than Ryan Tannehill just by looking at the two of them.

His decline also won't be like Peyton Manning.  Manning depended on having a good arm and being able to throw deep, and obviously how good he was at reading defenses.  That neck injury ultimately got him in the end.  And while I love him, I tend to believe the reports that he was doing HGH to recover from the injury and probably kept at it for the first couple of years when he was in Denver.  

Brady, on the other hand, doesn't really have the strongest arm in the world, and his deep ball, statistically anyway, is actually not that great.  It's just this amazing timing with the rest of the offense and footwork that has kept him at the top.  It probably also helps that he's played in a terrible division for pretty much the entirety of the second half of his career.  Think about it, the best competition in the division he ever faced during that time were Rex Ryan's Jets. 

My guess is that he wants to stick around for one year after Belichek retires or goes upstairs, just to get a chance to show that he can do it without him.  We'll see if he gets that opportunity. 

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21 hours ago, Daniel said:

I think Brady still has a while to go.  He has really good genes where he doesn't even look like he's aging.  You might think he's a lot younger than Ryan Tannehill just by looking at the two of them.

His decline also won't be like Peyton Manning.  Manning depended on having a good arm and being able to throw deep, and obviously how good he was at reading defenses.  That neck injury ultimately got him in the end.  And while I love him, I tend to believe the reports that he was doing HGH to recover from the injury and probably kept at it for the first couple of years when he was in Denver.  

Brady, on the other hand, doesn't really have the strongest arm in the world, and his deep ball, statistically anyway, is actually not that great.  It's just this amazing timing with the rest of the offense and footwork that has kept him at the top.  It probably also helps that he's played in a terrible division for pretty much the entirety of the second half of his career.  Think about it, the best competition in the division he ever faced during that time were Rex Ryan's Jets. 

My guess is that he wants to stick around for one year after Belichek retires or goes upstairs, just to get a chance to show that he can do it without him.  We'll see if he gets that opportunity. 

Yea I sort of forgot that Manning stuff. I mean one minute we hear whispers around the league that Peyton Manning outright can't throw a football anymore or even turn his head. Two years later he throws 55 TD passes.

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Speaking of Brady and Manning...as long as Brady stays healthy, by late next season he'll have made the same number of starts as Manning did...Brady's currently at 251 regular season starts, and Manning finished at 265.  Can't see Brady coming close to tying Peyton's TD total...Brady would need to throw 51 TD passes in 14 games to catch him...but unless Brady gets picked 91 times in those 14 games, he won't catch Peyton in INTs either. 

There will be lots of statistical comparisons, but the one I think is somewhat worth exploring is Manning's 2003-14 seasons (11 full seasons and 176 games...he missed all of 2011) vs. Brady's 2007-17 seasons (about 10 seasons' worth...157 GP).  I picked those seasons because, if you look up both player's stats, Manning's 2003 and Brady's 2007 seasons marked the beginning of both players taking their respective performances to a noticeably higher level statistically...Manning's career passer rating prior to the 2003-14 sample was 85.9 in 80 games, and Brady's was 88.4 through 96 games prior to 2007. 

Their per-16 GP averages are pretty similar for these time periods:

Manning:  380 Comp, 567 Att, 67.0 Comp%, 4461 yards, 35.6 TD, 12.2 INT, 7.9 YPA, 278.8 YPG, 102.8 rating, sacked 179 times (1.02 per game, never more than 21 times in any given year over this sample)

Brady:  380 Comp, 585 Att, 65.0 Comp%, 4545 yards, 34.7 TD, 8.4 INT, 7.8 YPA, 284.0 YPG, 102.5 rating, sacked 270 times (1.72 per game, more than 21 times in 6 seasons)

Not like you can go wrong with either player, really...Peyton had his share of iffy playoff games and was pretty much a passenger when he snagged his second SB ring...but the guy was still an all-time great.  And though Peyton was often not a great big-game player, I never once thought of him as a pick waiting to happen...his INT totals were never less than respectable throughout his sample.  And though some point out that Brady "won" the head-to-head matchups 11-6 (there's so many other factors that go into these games that I can't make that big of a deal out of QB head-to-head), Peyton did outplay Brady in both of the Denver vs. NE AFC Championship games...perhaps most impressively in 2016, when he was clearly on fumes.   

 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Steelers have parted ways with Todd Haley

Really it should've been Tomlin & Haley. Tomlin is the biggest coaching fraud there is out there

Edited by '7'

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15 minutes ago, '7' said:

Steelers have parted ways with Todd Haley

Really it should've been Tomlin & Haley. Tomlin is the biggest coaching fraud there is out there

Agree, Tomlin is an idiot who's been buoyed by having an upper-echelon QB and some nice offensive talent.  It's amazing that he has two rings.  Just about anywhere else I think he'd be a disaster...the Steelers' problems go beyond their offense.  Tomlin's team was caught flat-out looking past their opponent towards the next game.  Sorry, a veteran HC whose supposedly been there before doesn't allow that to happen.  I agree with another one of your posts...it feels like he's run his course in Pittsburgh, and a big chunk of the reason falls on Tomlin himself.  Feels like he's not really in touch nor in control of his lockerroom. 

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50 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Agree, Tomlin is an idiot who's been buoyed by having an upper-echelon QB and some nice offensive talent.  It's amazing that he has two rings.  Just about anywhere else I think he'd be a disaster...the Steelers' problems go beyond their offense.  Tomlin's team was caught flat-out looking past their opponent towards the next game.  Sorry, a veteran HC whose supposedly been there before doesn't allow that to happen.  I agree with another one of your posts...it feels like he's run his course in Pittsburgh, and a big chunk of the reason falls on Tomlin himself.  Feels like he's not really in touch nor in control of his lockerroom. 

Only one ring as a head coach (though he has a 2nd as a Tampa DB's coach so maybe that's what you were referring to)

To me he has always ridden the wave of the terrific Steelers organization, which drafts well, has a good internal culture, and always develops and attracts top coordinators. His tough sheriff routine worked well for a while but it's pretty clear he's kind of deficient in terms of x's and o's and preparation as well as discipline has sort of fallen off with him. To allow 40+ pts in a playoff game AT HOME? Roethlisberger bailed him out many a time, and he'll always have the talent around him to win (also helps to have the dysfunctional Browns for two easy wins a year, plus the always self destructing Bengals) Whenever HE's had to raise his performance as a coach, he never seems to do so. If they won last week they'd go into NE and lose.

Edited by '7'

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5 minutes ago, '7' said:

Only one ring as a head coach (though he has a 2nd as a Tampa DB's coach so maybe that's what you were referring to)

To me he has always ridden the wave of the terrific Steelers organization, which drafts well, has a good internal culture, and always develops and attracts top coordinators. His tough sheriff routine worked well for a while but it's pretty clear he's kind of deficient in terms of x's and o's and preparation as well as discipline has sort of fallen off with him. To allow 40+ pts in a playoff game AT HOME? Roethlisberger bailed him out many a time, and he'll always have the talent around him to win (also helps to have the dysfunctional Browns for two easy wins a year, plus the always self destructing Bengals) Whenever HE's had to raise his performance as a coach, he never seems to do so. If they won last week they'd go into NE and lose.

The fact that NE has eaten his team for lunch as many times as they have really doesn't speak well for Tomlin.  Pats have smoked them a lot, especially Brady in particular.  And yeah, there's just things that happen on his watch that shouldn't happen for a guy who's been there as long as he had...the Steelers look unprepared more often that they should, and discipline is a problem. 

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Didn't watch much of the Jags game but what pretty much everybody said was scripted to happen happened. From the officiating on down. Meh. Not really into the SB this year. And I wouldn't be into it if it was Jags vs. Vikings/Eagles either

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I suppose I have to watch the Super Bowl, but I guess we’re back to the days when you knew it was going to be a 49ers or Cowboys rout.  

Edited by Daniel

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Eagles vs Patriots in the Superbowl, that will be like cholera vs Pest or Cruz vs Trump in the primaries

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1 minute ago, eaglejelly said:

Eagles vs Patriots in the Superbowl, that will be like cholera vs Pest or Cruz vs Trump in the primaries

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Yeah well welcome to my world, I've had to deal with more than enough Yankee-Brave/Phillies World Series and Pat/Giant Super Bowls.

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Giants fans rooting for New England? That's going to annoy me if it happens :P

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51 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I suppose I have to watch the Super Bowl, but I guess we’re back to the days when you knew it was going to be a 49ers or Cowboys rout.  

I don't know if I'd go that far seeing Foles light up the world today.  The QB was really the only reason people were picking against the Eagles but if the QB is going to play like this...

Of course this might be fools gold influenced by home field the way Kerry Collins destroying the Vikings in 2000 was before reality set in against the Ravens.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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5 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I don't know if I'd go that far seeing Foles light up the world today.  The QB was really the only reason people were picking against the Eagles but if the QB is going to play like this...

Of course this might be fools gold influenced by home field the way Kerry Collins destroying the Vikings in 2000 was before reality set in against the Ravens.

That was a no shot super bowl the level of Bears-Patriots or perhaps 49ers-Broncos.

You're not even allowed to play defense (real defense) like the 2000 Ravens anymore. It's been legislated out of the game.

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This really is the nightmare game for Giants fans much like Patriots/Giants was the nightmare game for us. 

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