CommonDreads Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said: Can we please stop with Evander fvcking Kane? He's a fvcking locker room tumor. Let him go infect someone else's organization. Not interested. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk He's also having an overrated season, everyone is talking about how good of a season he's having and what he really had was a good first 30 games, he's cooled off significantly since then. Not interested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Can we please stop with Evander fvcking Kane? He's a fvcking locker room tumor. Let him go infect someone else's organization. Not interested. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) I mean, we are one of the few teams that is good enough but not that good to have a big use for Karlsson, we're not a rival of Ottawa and we have the cap space to take on Ryan's contract too. Edited February 20, 2018 by Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Daniel said: I mean, we are one of the few teams that is good enough but not that good to have a big use for Karlsson, we're not a rival of Ottawa and we have the cap space to take on Ryan's contract too. If taking on Ryan brings down the cost of acquiring Karlsson, I'm at that table 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, CommonDreads said: If taking on Ryan brings down the cost of acquiring Karlsson, I'm at that table The other thing you hear from Ottawa fans is that his hands are shot. So it could be an LTIR situation by the time you have to give Karlsson an extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, Daniel said: The other thing you hear from Ottawa fans is that his hands are shot. So it could be an LTIR situation by the time you have to give Karlsson an extension. LTIR or just buy him out and eat the dead cap, I think it's easily worth getting a player of Karlsson's ilk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Buying out Ryan costs you 3.58 x 4 and then 1.83 x 4. Hm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Marshall said: Buying out Ryan costs you 3.58 x 4 and then 1.83 x 4. Hm. Yeah, it's tough to eat that much for that long, but with the cap going up I think the reward outweighs the cost if it's a domino that has to fall to get a player like Karlsson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, CommonDreads said: Yeah, it's tough to eat that much for that long, but with the cap going up I think the reward outweighs the cost if it's a domino that has to fall to get a player like Karlsson 2020/21 is the (potentially) tough year when Hall, Bratt and Nico need new deals. And you probably have Karlsson making double digits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs3cups Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Martyisth3b3st said: While I agree, 7.25/y for 5 more seasons is an unreal expense that a young team with players we'll need to pay (RFA Zacha/Wood/Butcher/Nico/Bratt, UFA Karlsson/Hall/Vatanen) well before his contract expires. If there's no salary retained in the Ryan deal, that's a tough contract to deal with. My thoughts exactly. Shero won't mortgage the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Marshall said: Buying out Ryan costs you 3.58 x 4 and then 1.83 x 4. Hm. So it's basically adding on to Karlsson's 8 year extension - if you pay him $10M, you are basically paying him $9M in year 1, $13M in year 2-4, and then $12M in years 5-7. Alternately, the Devils could try to see if compliance buyouts are part of the next suppression of player salaries work stoppage. Under this framework, I think Severson, Clowe, Quenneville and this year's 1st (lottery protected) for Karlsson-Ryan would suffice. But Ottawa really should not be considering trades like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Marshall said: Buying out Ryan costs you 3.58 x 4 and then 1.83 x 4. Hm. I think you let Ryan play until those three need new deals (2020) and then either hope he's LTIR or buy him out then and save a couple of those buyout years. I have a few problems with making a move for Karlsson: A. We need LD much more than RD B. Don't like all those foot/ankle injuries C. Severson would likely be part part of the package going back and he fits our core's timeline much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Derlique said: I think you let Ryan play until those three need new deals (2020) and then either hope he's LTIR or buy him out then and save a couple of those buyout years. I have a few problems with making a move for Karlsson: A. We need LD much more than RD B. Don't like all those foot/ankle injuries C. Severson would likely be part part of the package going back and he fits our core's timeline much better. We need LD, but I don't think you'd have a problem finding a team with a LHD of similar age and contract wanting to trade for Severson. You might even make a net profit given the scarcity of the position (ie getting several teams in on it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 With a Ryan buyout we're also not considering the Devils potentially squeezing a year or two out of him before buying him out, if say the buyout occurs in July 2020 we'd only be on the hook for 4 years instead of the 6 years that would be remaining if we bought him out immediately. It's just an interesting option, I'm all in favor of continuing to use our cap space as a commodity while we have it to acquire top pieces but I do understand cap space disappears quickly, it's a tough juggling act but with the cap going up presumably over the next couple years I think it's something we could squeeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 NJ would essentially need a surplus down the road to retain everyone, and then also have the money to keep Karlsson and cover Ryan's first 4 years. That's difficult if Bratt continues to develop into the player he has hinted he can be. Hall and Karlsson would command a huge chunk of the cap alone and it looks like Nico, thank God, is going to get paid as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Triumph said: So it's basically adding on to Karlsson's 8 year extension - if you pay him $10M, you are basically paying him $9M in year 1, $13M in year 2-4, and then $12M in years 5-7. Alternately, the Devils could try to see if compliance buyouts are part of the next suppression of player salaries work stoppage. Under this framework, I think Severson, Clowe, Quenneville and this year's 1st (lottery protected) for Karlsson-Ryan would suffice. But Ottawa really should not be considering trades like this. Looney things happen when you have an owner like Eugene Melnyk, I'm not surprised at all that getting rid of Ryan's contract would hold a lot of value for that franchise because of their internal cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Marshall said: We need LD, but I don't think you'd have a problem finding a team with a LHD of similar age and contract wanting to trade for Severson. You might even make a net profit given the scarcity of the position (ie getting several teams in on it). My point is that I don't think you can get Karlsson without Severson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Derlique said: My point is that I don't think you can get Karlsson without Severson Sorry, misunderstood. I don't know about that. Ottawa's talent evaluation perplexes me quite often, especially regarding their D. Severson doesn't seem like a guy Boucher would fawn over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Marshall said: Sorry, misunderstood. I don't know about that. Ottawa's talent evaluation perplexes me quite often, especially regarding their D. Severson doesn't seem like a guy Boucher would fawn over. I think you're giving up one of Severson, Bratt or maybe even Zacha if they value him highly, plus a McLeod/Quenneville and a first. I just don't trust Shero with dmen yet and Severson has been in the Hynes doghouse a few times in the last few years. You'd have to move Severson or Vatanen (they just got him so that's not happening) even if they do get Karlsson. Not enough minutes, especially if Karlsson is playing 25 mins a night. Edited February 20, 2018 by Derlique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Sorry, misunderstood. I don't know about that. Ottawa's talent evaluation perplexes me quite often, especially regarding their D. Severson doesn't seem like a guy Boucher would fawn over. They'd definitely want a D coming back, so if it's not Severson, it'd be Butcher.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 I always figured that if Ray was going to make a move for a big name defenseman, Severson would be going the other way. But if you're taking Ryan's contract off their hands, it could be something like Zacha and Santini instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Daniel said: I always figured that if Ray was going to make a move for a big name defenseman, Severson would be going the other way. But if you're taking Ryan's contract off their hands, it could be something like Zacha and Santini instead. Melnyk would be forced to sell the team if the main piece coming back in a Karlsson trade is Santini or Zacha. I don't care if you're offloading Ryan, it'd be one of the most egregious trades ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Melnyk would be forced to sell the team if the main piece coming back in a Karlsson trade is Santini or Zacha. I don't care if you're offloading Ryan, it'd be one of the most egregious trades ever Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Derlique said: Melnyk would be forced to sell the team if the main piece coming back in a Karlsson trade is Santini or Zacha. I don't care if you're offloading Ryan, it'd be one of the most egregious trades ever But Melnyk is the owner, and he seems to have it in his head that Ottawa fans should be grateful for his very presence. Other thing to note is that a Ryan buy out could probably wait until Hall gets his new contract unless he's on LTIR by that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Daniel said: But Melnyk is the owner, and he seems to have it in his head that Ottawa fans should be grateful for his very presence. Other thing to note is that a Ryan buy out could probably wait until Hall gets his new contract unless he's on LTIR by that point. I might even wait another year after that. I bet teams will get more compliance buyouts next negotiations. Ryan would also be a useful piece here for the next 2-3 years. He is horribly overpaid and oft-injured, but NJ could use another top-9 right winger Edited February 20, 2018 by Derlique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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