njbuff Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The Devils got Kovalchuk for a non-NHLer, a below average NHLer and an average D-man, so anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 10 hours ago, Daniel said: I’ll restate my position on Karlsson. Assuming we’re not trading Hall, Nico and/or Corey to get him, he makes the Devils a legit Cup contender for the next two years. I believe the success thus far is not a mirage, and you would have to give me nice odds to bet against not making the playoffs and comfortably so. You add arguably the best defenseman in the league, it’s a team that can win the Cup. If Corey performs to his career average in the playoffs, i.e. doesn’t sh!t the bed, the Devils are almost guaranteed to get to the Conference finals against Tampa if Karlsson is on the team. As to the cost, I would assume that Severson would be going the other way, which is not really a loss at all considering the upgrade you’re getting. Losing McLeod, who I assume would be in the deal, would not be an enormous loss. Then it comes down to whether you’d be willing to part with Zacha, or Bratt if Ottawa insists on him (Bratt might be the deal breaker). A low first round pick added on top is also not the end of the world. So if the package resembles something like this, you haven’t completely decimated your prospect pool, which will still consist of Zetterlund, Anderson, Walsh, Studenic, Davies, Rykov and Zaitsev. It’s also possible that Bastian and Quenneville become useful NHLers, or might exceed expectations, although you obviously count that as being found money if it ever happens. Otherwise, the team as is is young and good. Yeah, you might have difficulty replacing Zajac when he really can’t hack it anymore, but it’s a chance you take if you think you can legitimately win a Cup in the near future. I agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 hours ago, SterioDesign said: Plus we might have a surprise with a guy like Jacob Macdonald who's tearing it up in the AHL at the moment and "could" maybe become an asset or make one of our dman expandable. We should expand all of our D men, nobody would get past them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said: I would rather just see how this season shakes out and make a play to sign John Carlson at the end of the season. I would be reluctant to lose the depth we have currently. All it takes is for a player like Bratt to not pan out as expected and then you are back in the same situation. More and more I'm thinking I'd just rather see Shero attempt to add Carlson or Karlsson via UFA if/when the opportunity arises. I really don't want the Devils to lose Bratt. The only exception that I'd be willing to make re: a trade is if Karlsson doesn't fetch as much as expected, and you know you can keep him here long-term...I'm not making a deal for just 1.5 years of Karlsson. Severson + two or three "not sure" kids + a 1st rounder (basically a borderline fleece-job...I would understand completely if Ottawa says no thanks to that)...the Devils may have to cough up a second defenseman as well, if they're really trying to keep certain names off the table...maybe Severson + Santini + other pieces. Of course if I'm Ottawa I want Bratt to be part of any package coming back. If you could somehow sell Ottawa on Severson + Santini + lesser others + a 1st-rounder, then the Devils have a D-core of Karlsson, Vatanen, Greene, Mueller (once he's healthy), Moore, Butcher, and Lovejoy. As for taking on Bobby Ryan's money to possibly lessen the loot heading Ottawa's way...no way. That contract is just SO rotten...you're basically paying a fortune much for Henrique-type (at best) production. Sterio, re: MacDonald, he'd be a throw-in at best in this deal...he turns 25 next month...a little old to be a true prospect. Edited January 4, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'll repeat: the minute Bratt's name comes up, it's a non-starter. Zacha I'd move in a Karlsson deal. Bratt I'm not moving in any deal. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said: Said in another thread, I don’t want the Devils trading 4/5 prospects and picks to get Karlsson. That being said, I also don’t think the Devils are prime candidates to make any deadline acquisitions UNLESS it’s a top-flight defenseman. Acquiring a 2nd pairing defenseman does very little for this team; it’s worth remembering that Lovejoy is a serviceable #7 and we’ll soon get Mueller back — someone who I was quite impressed with during his short healthy stint at the beginning of the year. Our top-6 is also set, for my liking. Completely agree. While I like Karlsson, and I think many do, I don't want to get him if it makes shipping out one or two good prospects. I'd rather keep what we have now in tact, and then land someone else in the offseason (even if it's not Karlsson). Carlson with a C would be fine, or someone else of that ilk, who I think could be have for a much more reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: I'll repeat: the minute Bratt's name comes up, it's a non-starter. Zacha I'd move in a Karlsson deal. Bratt I'm not moving in any deal. Yeah I'm with you on this. If Ottawa won't make the deal without Bratt, then no deal. I really don't want to give up Zacha either (I'm hoping he can evolve enough this season that the Devils can stop having Zajac center Palms and MoJo..admittedly that's a high hope), but I can understand it if Shero did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 35 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: I'll repeat: the minute Bratt's name comes up, it's a non-starter. Zacha I'd move in a Karlsson deal. Bratt I'm not moving in any deal. Would you take on Ryan's contract if need be? As much as I HATE the idea, I might consider it if Ottawa was willing to take on a nice chunk of the money (say $2.5 - 3 million per season). Then maybe in his final season the Devils can move his hit to a team looking to hit the floor, though it would cost them a pick...basically, about three seasons of Bobby Ryan at a bad cap hit, but you could get Karlsson as soon as this season. Tough call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Would you take on Ryan's contract if need be? As much as I HATE the idea, I might consider it if Ottawa was willing to take on a nice chunk of the money (say $2.5 - 3 million per season). Then maybe in his final season the Devils can move his hit to a team looking to hit the floor, though it would cost them a pick...basically, about three seasons of Bobby Ryan at a bad cap hit, but you could get Karlsson as soon as this season. Tough call. Absolutely not. I wouldn't touch that Ryan contract with a 55 1/2 foot pole. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, MadDog2020 said: Absolutely not. I wouldn't touch that Ryan contract with a 55 1/2 foot pole. Yeah I would hate it too. But if Shero is trying not to give a lot back, Ottawa might insist on it. If the Devils decide not to trade for Karlsson, I'd be 100% OK with it. A large part of me wants to see how this team progresses with the current pieces in place...like I said, Carlson or Karlsson coming here for "money only" appeals to me far more than coughing up pieces AND money. But it's still fun to wonder if something could be done without the Devils losing too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokar Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Absolutely not. I wouldn't touch that Ryan contract with a 55 1/2 foot pole. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Would you touch the contract if it came with Ottawa 2019 1st rd pick, cause I would Edited January 4, 2018 by sokar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) The start of the season obviously has been fantastic and the impulse at the deadline might be to go out and make a big move, but I think the organization still has to be playing the long game. We're on the upswing and we just need to stay the course until we know exactly what we have in our system, the Islanders were in the same position as us back in 2014 until they made the Vanek trade, and it set them back a little bit. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here, we're still growing. I think this team would be well served to go out and get a reliable middle 6 C, I think Zacha has been pretty good of late but it's clear Hynes no longer trusts him in a 2C role, so maybe Shero can swing a trade for someone like Phillip Danault at the trade deadline that gives is some more flexibility at center. JG Pageau on Ottawa I'd like as well but he's under contract for a few years, Ottawa might just keep him. Edited January 4, 2018 by CommonDreads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Would you touch the contract if it came with Ottawa 2019 1st rd pick, cause I would Ottawa's 2019 1 (unprotected) AND Karlsson? Yeah then I'd give it some consideration. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Bobby Ryan was a name I was considering bringing up even before I read this thread, yeah he's struggled in Ottawa but we've seen in the past there's a good, maybe even a great player in there somewhere, a change of scenery to his home state could help him and you can get him for cheap I'm sure. Ottawa is an internal budget team and I'm sure they're looking to move him out, I don't think it would be unreasonable to think you can grab Ryan for a 3rd with Ottawa retaining $3M, I would take Bobby in our top 6 for $4.5M no questions asked. Not to mention, he's a RW where we've been very weak at for a few seasons now, and adding him could potentially squeak Zajac down to the 3rd line. Hall - Hischier - Ryan Bratt - Johansson - Palmieri Zacha - Zajac - Wood Gibbons - Boyle - Coleman Edited January 4, 2018 by CommonDreads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Martyisth3b3st said: Not that this isn't nonsensical in it's own right, but Ottawa's 2018 1st round pick is going to COL for Duchene, unless it's a top-10 pick in which case their 2019 pick (regardless of position) is going to COL. Ottawa will not be sending any picks away in a deal that has Erik Karlsson's name in it. Bobby Ryan has 4 years left at 7.5m/y. That's a lot, yeah. Andy Greene has 2 years left at 5/y, and Zajac has 3 years left at 5.75. Those are the bad contracts. But, we also lose Clowe's 4.875 this year. I don't think this team is in a position where taking Ryan's contract is necessarily devastating. When it comes to "The year", 2020-2021, the Devils will need to bust out their wallets to keep Hall, Bratt, Hischier, and Vatanen. But the only contracts on the book for that season are Palmieri, Zajac, Severson and Schneider. There are plenty of other moves that can be made to fit Ryan's 7.5 in there. (It's also worth noting that we're currently 17m under the cap) Ryan's contract is way too big imo for what he brings to the table. A classic case of his reputation/potential proceeds him. Another guy you don't know how to identify. No interest in him because if we bring in Karlson (10-11 mil) & Ryan (7.5) 20 mil to 2 guys. I understand taking on a sh!tty contract could be part of a deal, but 4 years is along time for that money.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Sure Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 29 minutes ago, CommonDreads said: The start of the season obviously has been fantastic and the impulse at the deadline might be to go out and make a big move, but I think the organization still has to be playing the long game. We're on the upswing and we just need to stay the course until we know exactly what we have in our system, the Islanders were in the same position as us back in 2014 until they made the Vanek trade, and it set them back a little bit. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here, we're still growing. I think this team would be well served to go out and get a reliable middle 6 C, I think Zacha has been pretty good of late but it's clear Hynes no longer trusts him in a 2C role, so maybe Shero can swing a trade for someone like Phillip Danault at the trade deadline that gives is some more flexibility at center. JG Pageau on Ottawa I'd like as well but he's under contract for a few years, Ottawa might just keep him. I agree. If this team is going to get to where we want, it still has to have a 2nd line Center. Now if both Zajac and Zacha up their game that's an exacta ticket I'll gladly cash. But I don't think that this team arriving ahead of schedule should mean that Shero should be giving up assets for 1 1/2 years of Karlsson. This off-season Shero doesn't have the capital he's had in his prior ones since he's been here and that's spare 2nd and 3rd rounders. That enabled him to pry players from cash strapped teams and also draft. So we'll see how he plays things, but I don't see him doing a move for Karlsson. Shero has been consistent in talking about the long game, and this team's arrival ahead of schedule shouldn't take him off that course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Ottawa Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Hi All: I live in Ottawa and listen to the hockey talk shows regularly. Bobby Ryan's hands are so injured (multiple fractures) that he literally cant shoot a slap shot any more. Definitely stay far, far away from him. Also, I see a lot of Sens games and Karlsson is a shell of himself after a crazy ankle surgery and repair. I would be very cautious about giving too much for him. He is a also a defensive liability this year, so if his ankle never fully recovers then you are screwed. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rob_Ottawa said: Hi All: I live in Ottawa and listen to the hockey talk shows regularly. Bobby Ryan's hands are so injured (multiple fractures) that he literally cant shoot a slap shot any more. Definitely stay far, far away from him. Also, I see a lot of Sens games and Karlsson is a shell of himself after a crazy ankle surgery and repair. I would be very cautious about giving too much for him. He is a also a defensive liability this year, so if his ankle never fully recovers then you are screwed. Good to know. Saw that Karlsson was a -22 this season (by far the worst on his team), but sometimes that number can be misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, sokar said: Would you touch the contract if it came with Ottawa 2019 1st rd pick, cause I would Ottawa would have to be insane to use their 2019 first to move Ryan's contract, especially when the team is apparently ready to enter a rebuild. So to answer your question - assuming our owners are willing to fund the inevitable buyout? Absolutely I'd be interested. 40 minutes ago, Rob_Ottawa said: Hi All: I live in Ottawa and listen to the hockey talk shows regularly. Bobby Ryan's hands are so injured (multiple fractures) that he literally cant shoot a slap shot any more. Definitely stay far, far away from him. Also, I see a lot of Sens games and Karlsson is a shell of himself after a crazy ankle surgery and repair. I would be very cautious about giving too much for him. He is a also a defensive liability this year, so if his ankle never fully recovers then you are screwed. Insider info, love it! Edited January 4, 2018 by Devilsfan118 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 has anyone watched karlsson play this year? I have not... has the injury affected his game at all? if hes still 90% Im all for it.. I think he would be a good fit.. as long as you are assured he can win a puck and skate it out without passing the puck along the boards 5 times like were doing not , why wouldn't he be a good fit? bratt is untouchable for now.. kid looks like a more complete player than even nico.. hes strong on his skates way beyond his size , can shoot (i believe it now) and is instant space with a high IQ and vision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Daniel said: So are you saying that you don’t think the team as currently situated is for real? Like they could easily miss the playoffs by a healthy margin this year and/or that they could just as easily regress to being a crappy team next year? If that’s not the case, I don’t see how adding someone as good as Karlsson does not make the Devils a plausible Cup contender. Regarding the Flyers, Hextall does not seem like the type who will sacrifice young players or draft picks unless he’s certain there will be a strong playoff run in the immediate future. That’s fortunate for us if Karlsson is really in the cards, since Nolan Patrick and not a ton more would be better than anything the Devils could offer. The Devils cannot miss the playoffs by a healthy margin this season unless Schneider gets injured. They're 7 points in a playoff spot now and are playing decent hockey. But they could absolutely be not very good next year. There's still plenty of older players in prominent positions and the Devils have really been a healthy team for much of the season - no one on defense who is critical has missed any time. There's no real depth at forward or on defense past the NHL roster. Next year I don't think that'll be as true, but yeah, things could easily go pear-shaped for them next year. Remember after 2015-16 when everyone thought the team would finish higher because they had Hall now? The Devils are getting realer by the day but they've banked a lot of points as a fake team. Karlsson to me does not make them a Cup contender this season - certainly they'd have a chance to win it, but I doubt they'd be in the top half of teams who make the playoffs. Edited January 4, 2018 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, Martyisth3b3st said: I can't wrap my head around what you can possibly mean by this. The Devils are performing well above expectations, yeah, but I don't think there's anything 'fake' about this team. I don't understand what he means by that either. I agree with his point that we should not be trading for Karlsson, and even agree that there is a chance we regress next season (look at Toronto and Edmonton as examples). However, to say we banked points early in the year as a fake team isn't accurate. The team is playing above expectations, but they are tenacious on the forecheck and give teams fits getting out of their zone by taking away time and space. The speed and skill the kids have brought to the lineup have made this a good team that is difficult to play against. They aren't a cup contender, and still have depth issues on F and D, but they are entertaining to watch and deserve to be in the position they are currently in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Triumph said: The Devils are getting realer by the day but they've banked a lot of points as a fake team. Karlsson to me does not make them a Cup contender this season - certainly they'd have a chance to win it, but I doubt they'd be in the top half of teams who make the playoffs. Karlsson isnt being brought in a a short term deal, or I wouldnt want him either.. he, if possible, is being brought in on an 8 year contract.. or not at all you cant pick and choose a time to grab a top 5 defenseman .. you must strike when the opportunity arises.. its such a rare occurrence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said: I can't wrap my head around what you can possibly mean by this. The Devils are performing well above expectations, yeah, but I don't think there's anything 'fake' about this team. The only "fake" performances that I see are Gibby and Boyle combining for 22 goals in 68 GP. I don't see them repeating that in the season's second half (Gibby has been held to one shot or less in 26 out of 39 games...he was just never going to sustain his earlier scoring pace, and we all pretty much knew he'd slow up in time...but it was great while it lasted). But I also don't see MoJo and Palms combining for just 10 goals and 41 GP in the second half either. And Zacha might be capable of improving on his offensive numbers as well...he has 6 points in his last 13 GP. My worries are the same as early on: the kids getting tired or hitting a wall, or a key guy like Hall or Schneider getting hurt...Devils will have a very hard time recovering should that happen. Yeah, there's not much immediate depth that can help. This team has gotten some luck here and there so far, but not nearly so much that I would ever consider them a fake team. It's not like this is some team that is feasting on insane puck luck or a lot of guys all having career years at the same time. Edited January 4, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, Martyisth3b3st said: Except if he’s dead set on testing the market, which may be why Ottawa hasn’t been able to lock him up in the first place. exactly, then no deal.. get permission to call his agent.. lets talk, erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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