GDT: Carolina @ Devils 7:00 PM

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

So if I’m reading the stats correctly, the “metrics” show that we were either outplayed or close to outplayed. 

The eye test tells me that was the most dominating Devils win in a long, long time. Why should I care about any of those stats, then?

Because it’s on the internet so now it’s true. 

[mikepeluso8]

BIG BIG BIG WIN

[sundstrom]

nice win - devils were due for one of these.

i will say that any "progress" lovejoy made this season over last has evaporated. he's back to being a major issue in his own zone. and greene had a pretty bad game as well - any pressure and it's was sheets for him.

i thought there was good pressure from the forwards tonight and there were just a lot of smart decisions - nice to see.

[jagknife]

Just read the thread, checked the score midway through the 3rd and saw it was 5-2, was terrified I was going to jinx it by checking. Guess I'll go dark for Saturday's game as well!

Has anyone else noticed that Toyota wasted no time taking our last jersey scheme for their Olympics commercial?

[EdgeControl]

38 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Kinkaid makes the big stop and Darling never does - I think that's the theme of tonight's game.  The Devils didn't play great and certainly there were some dicey moments, but Darling never looked comfortable and the Devils managed to take advantage.

It was also nice to win without Hall dominating the game - it was one of his quietest games of the season.

Penalty kill needs work, that first unit of Coleman-Zajac-Greene-Lovejoy is not getting it done.  Zajac doesn't have the speed to pressure people at the top of the box.

Power play also needs work, obviously, but most teams don't get a lot of work on the PP against the Canes.

Darling was bad , I think it was Nicos goal where he moved out of the way.. he also missed a clamp, with the puck right in front of him.  

The early PK was awful..  all pressure..

[Satans Hockey]

45 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Nico failed to clear the glass on his first toss of the puck. That was funny. 

He did an interview with Chico and Matt on the post game radio show and Chico said just so people don't accuse me of being all positive towards you, you have to work on your puck tossing for after the game haha

[mfitz804]

9 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

He did an interview with Chico and Matt on the post game radio show and Chico said just so people don't accuse me of being all positive towards you, you have to work on your puck tossing for after the game haha

Love that guy. 

[Triumph]

52 minutes ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

So if I’m reading the stats correctly, the “metrics” show that we were either outplayed or close to outplayed. 

The eye test tells me that was the most dominating Devils win in a long, long time. Why should I care about any of those stats, then?

Your eyes are lying to you.  The Devils in no way dominated that game.  Darling basically saved almost none of the Devils' big chances.

[Muevelos]

I don't think the Devils dominated but they played better then the Canes obviously. And whoever coaches our special teams wether it is Ward or Nasserdine, needs to get canned.

[Devilsfan118]

Missed this one thanks to work.. sounds like it wasn't necessarily the most dominant win but I'll take the two points.

[Steven M.]

Yeah even being at the game and despite having a great fvcking time watching us run away with this, it never felt dominating. Don't know what game everyone was watching that this was like that. The game against Boston was controlled far more by the Devils than this one. If you think your eyes deceived you think back to the shift before goal 1 for Carolina where kinkaid didn't have his stick for like 150 seconds. That was absolutely brutal. The canes had a few stretches like that, but the Devils certainly matched them and I'm not sure for the life of me why they thought it would be a good idea to start Darling. Credit to the team and specifically Kinkaid who I was just laying into the other day and past few years lol. He stepped up and made nice saves. Darling made zero saves essentially.

 

Regardless, massive win, would love to steal any number of points from Tampa and then beat these losers again. fvck the Carolina toilet bowls.

[mfitz804]

It only felt dominating to me when we went up 3. 

[SterioDesign]

few shifts were a total domination. At some point we stayed in their zone forever, they were trying to get the puck out but we'd keep it in and keep it in. 

But you can possess the puck for 5 minutes straight and miss the net by inches, get the puck again, look like Gretzky playing against kids or get your shot blocked or deflected... as long you don't get a SHOT ON GOAL. All those efforts and great plays, takeovers, battles along the board, constant control and passing plays will be ALL FOR NOTHING to the stats people. 

Cause you know... skating through the neutral zone and taking a weak wrister to the goalies chest has more weight in the stats world than if you'd do the craziest coast-to-coast 5 players tic-tac-toe, double back flip between the legs saucer pass through 5 rings of fire and finish it with a triple one timer in-mid air baseball style beating the goalie completely...... but hitting the post. Then that whole play is worth nothing, none of all that skilled play and effort can be translated to those stats cause.... the was no shot on goal to show for. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by SterioDesign

[Triumph]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

few shifts were a total domination. At some point we stayed in their zone forever, they were trying to get the puck out but we'd keep it in and keep it in. 

But you can possess the puck for 5 minutes straight and miss the net by inches, get the puck again, look like Gretzky playing against kids or get your shot blocked or deflected... as long you don't get a SHOT ON GOAL. All those efforts and great plays, takeovers, battles along the board, constant control and passing plays will be ALL FOR NOTHING to the stats people. 

Cause you know... skating through the neutral zone and taking a weak wrister to the goalies chest has more weight in the stats world than if you'd do the craziest coast-to-coast 5 players tic-tac-toe, double back flip between the legs saucer pass through 5 rings of fire and finish it with a triple one timer in-mid air baseball style beating the goalie completely...... but hitting the post. Then that whole play is worth nothing, none of all that skilled play and effort can be translated to those stats cause.... the was no shot on goal to show for. 

I'm glad that while you weren't reading all the posts made about statistics on this website that you were at least doing well in your hyperbole class.

[Marshall]

4 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

So if I’m reading the stats correctly, the “metrics” show that we were either outplayed or close to outplayed. 

The eye test tells me that was the most dominating Devils win in a long, long time. Why should I care about any of those stats, then?

You're taking them too literally in a tiny sample. The value of these stats aren't found in single games, but they're still worth paying attention to. And, shot attempts aside, this isn't really what I'd call being 'statistically' outplayed. Devils got the better in scoring chances and high danger chances. They made the plays, Canes didn't.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Marshall

[Mike Brown]

4 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

So if I’m reading the stats correctly, the “metrics” show that we were either outplayed or close to outplayed. 

The eye test tells me that was the most dominating Devils win in a long, long time. Why should I care about any of those stats, then?

A couple of things here.  Scott Darling let in two bad goals.  Severson's and Nico's goals were both shots an NHL goalie should stop.  Also, the Devils did in fact outplay the Canes in the first 2 periods.  However, in the 3rd due to the fact the Canes were trailing going into the 3rd, they had no choice but to really pick up their play and be aggressive on the puck.  So your eyes didn't deceive you.

POSSESSION THROUGH 2 PERIODS

• ES CF: 30 to 22
• ES FF: 24 to 17
• ES SF: 18 to 13
• ES SCF: 12 to 6
• ES HDCF: 7 to 2
• All CF: 30 to 32
• All FF: 24 to 22
• All SF: 18 to 17
• All SCF: 12 to 10
• All HDCF: 7 to 3

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

Why was Nico’s a goal that “should be stopped”? He was flying in on a 2-1 with one of the few “snipers” on the team. Darling didn’t come out to challenge the shooter, stayed too deep in his net assuming pass. I thought it was a perfectly reasonable goal. 

I disagree with Triumph that my eyes deceived me (though I guess naturally I would). Long stretches of the game felt like domination. In the first period especially, I commented that it felt like we were dominating the game and still tied at 1. 

well to be fair that goal was basically the same goal Kinkaid let in against at the start of the Flyers game. 

But as far as domination, like i said earlier, stat people usually go by shots so you can dominate and possess the puck all you want, if you dont get a shot on net that counts then its worth nothing.

Your eyes are fine.

[EdgeControl]

Like Fitz said in his wonderfully sarcastic manor, give me dominating on the score sheet over dominating the fenwick every day of the week.  points are all about ends, not means.  its about time the OTHER goalie cost them the game..

lovejoy needs to stay away from the PK, preferably in the suite with a suit&tie.. although muller was atrocious his last game

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Palms played in his 200th game as a Devil last night (man did that go fast)...despite that fact that he was getting ripped on here pretty good earlier this season (being in and out of the lineup with injuries wasn't helping), the guy is clearly is very consistent overall, as far as his production rates go:

Goals per 82 as a Devil:  29 

Assists per 82 as a Devil:  27

Shooting% (each season):  13.5, 13.5, 13.1

He had 57 points in 82 GP in his first season here, 53 in 80 GP last year, and is currently on pace for 54 points in 82 GP this year, though he obviously won't hit that number due to missing 19 games.

Safe to say that if fans are patient with him through his less productive stretches (the guys who put up 50-60 points per season tend to run a bit hot and cold), they'll realize that he'll do his thing and put up his typical numbers by season's end.

 

Was going to break out the Dean jersey again, but for some reason it just didn't feel right this time...so I went with the red GW Palms.  Just because.  Glad the Devils won (and the Rangers lost yet again).

The Devils looked dominant at times for sure, but it definitely got scary for stretches...like Tri alluded to, Darling just didn't make enough big saves.  Devils have had their share of goalies playing them tough lately, so it was about time that a goalie wasn't coming up huge against them time and time again.  Regardless of how the Devils got their goals, it's nice to see some secondary (read:  almost everyone not named Hall) scoring again.  And of course it's great to see the Hall-Nico-Palms line clicking so well.

Would love to believe that KK is about to go on some from-out-nowhere hot streak, but he just seems like he's going to be stuck in the .890s...hopefully the Devils can keep giving him generous goal support.  The Devils have scored 3 or more goals in 7 out of their last nine games at least...doesn't seem like it due to the recent four-game losing streak. 

Devils are 7-11-3 in their last 21...looks bad, but considering that they've have winless streaks of 6, 4 and 4 in that timeframe, they've kind of hung in there.  Taking the family on a Disney cruise this week, so I'll miss the next five games...I honestly can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad one.  I'm so locked into what's happening every single game...probably couldn't hurt to get away from it all for a little while. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

Why was Nico’s a goal that “should be stopped”? He was flying in on a 2-1 with one of the few “snipers” on the team. Darling didn’t come out to challenge the shooter, stayed too deep in his net assuming pass. I thought it was a perfectly reasonable goal. 

I disagree with Triumph that my eyes deceived me (though I guess naturally I would). Long stretches of the game felt like domination. In the first period especially, I commented that it felt like we were dominating the game and still tied at 1. 

I hate almost everything MB says.  I thought that was a nice shot by Nico there...he didn't really tip his hand as to what he was going to do (pass or shoot), and sometimes guys just do enough to keep the goalie guessing.  Nico isn't going to score in that situation 100% of the time, but the MBs of the world don't seem to realize that NHL goalies aren't necessarily going to stop "stoppable" shots 100% of the time either.  EVERY goalie gives up some questionable goals throughout the course of the season.  Not every goal comes on some killer tic-tac-toe kind of play or off a rocket.  But Nico's goal wasn't some friggin' softie, that's for sure. 

[nessus]

8 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

few shifts were a total domination. At some point we stayed in their zone forever, they were trying to get the puck out but we'd keep it in and keep it in. 

But you can possess the puck for 5 minutes straight and miss the net by inches, get the puck again, look like Gretzky playing against kids or get your shot blocked or deflected... as long you don't get a SHOT ON GOAL. All those efforts and great plays, takeovers, battles along the board, constant control and passing plays will be ALL FOR NOTHING to the stats people. 

Cause you know... skating through the neutral zone and taking a weak wrister to the goalies chest has more weight in the stats world than if you'd do the craziest coast-to-coast 5 players tic-tac-toe, double back flip between the legs saucer pass through 5 rings of fire and finish it with a triple one timer in-mid air baseball style beating the goalie completely...... but hitting the post. Then that whole play is worth nothing, none of all that skilled play and effort can be translated to those stats cause.... the was no shot on goal to show for. 

I'm by no means what someone would call a "stats guy", but if you can accept the fact that stats are not perfect, then maybe you won't hate them so much. I understand that they are flawed in the sense that all shot attempts are considered equal, when in fact they are not all equal. An Ovechkin shot from the slot gives you a better chance of scoring than an Andy Greene shot from the point. But how often in an NHL game, do you have a team outshot 45-30, where the majority of those 45 shots were soft shots that hit the goalie's chest? I think the effect of this kind of thing is accounted for in a way, when you realize both teams have their share of these kinds of shots. If you agree that generally speaking, shots on goal are an indicator of play, there's no reason to hate so much on Corsi, Fenwick, etc.

There of course are some exceptions. I heard that in the Toronto/Columbus game 2 night ago, the Jackets were just shooting at every chance they had, ended up with over double the shots that Toronto had. Then you've got Toronto with 2 lines of players with insane chemistry creating really dangerous scoring chances, and they end up winning 6-3. The key is to use these statistics as a tool over longer periods of time, and factor them into what you saw when watching the game, to help you decide how your team is performing. If they are consistently controlling play, dominating, playing above their opponents, but the numbers favor their opponents, then you don't have to put any value in those stats. Maybe your team plays every game like that Toronto/Columbus game. Maybe stats based on shot (attempt) differential are not indicative of team play in that case. I just don't think that this applies very often in the NHL.

Also, to play devil's advocate, if you do enter the offensive zone, and dominate Harlem Globetrotter-style for 2 minutes straight, but the shot does not even hit the goalie, is it really any better than your typical Miles Wood zone entry and shot from 5 feet inside the blue line? Maybe the former is a better indicator of overall play during the game, but even if that is the case, wouldn't you also expect that to be reflected in the shot differential between the teams?

[SterioDesign]

16 minutes ago, nessus said:

I'm by no means what someone would call a "stats guy", but if you can accept the fact that stats are not perfect, then maybe you won't hate them so much. I understand that they are flawed in the sense that all shot attempts are considered equal, when in fact they are not all equal. An Ovechkin shot from the slot gives you a better chance of scoring than an Andy Greene shot from the point. But how often in an NHL game, do you have a team outshot 45-30, where the majority of those 45 shots were soft shots that hit the goalie's chest? I think the effect of this kind of thing is accounted for in a way, when you realize both teams have their share of these kinds of shots. If you agree that generally speaking, shots on goal are an indicator of play, there's no reason to hate so much on Corsi, Fenwick, etc.

There of course are some exceptions. I heard that in the Toronto/Columbus game 2 night ago, the Jackets were just shooting at every chance they had, ended up with over double the shots that Toronto had. Then you've got Toronto with 2 lines of players with insane chemistry creating really dangerous scoring chances, and they end up winning 6-3. The key is to use these statistics as a tool over longer periods of time, and factor them into what you saw when watching the game, to help you decide how your team is performing. If they are consistently controlling play, dominating, playing above their opponents, but the numbers favor their opponents, then you don't have to put any value in those stats. Maybe your team plays every game like that Toronto/Columbus game. Maybe stats based on shot (attempt) differential are not indicative of team play in that case. I just don't think that this applies very often in the NHL.

Also, to play devil's advocate, if you do enter the offensive zone, and dominate Harlem Globetrotter-style for 2 minutes straight, but the shot does not even hit the goalie, is it really any better than your typical Miles Wood zone entry and shot from 5 feet inside the blue line? Maybe the former is a better indicator of overall play during the game, but even if that is the case, wouldn't you also expect that to be reflected in the shot differential between the teams?

Well i know all of that and agree with you. And for the record i don't hate stats, they can be really useful. I hate how some people are using them, it's quite different. 

Most people know that stats are flawed as every single metric in them is different than the other and that the eye test can be flawed cause you get emotionally invested and you can miss things by not paying attention 100%. You kind of got to mix both to get the real picture.

But when i see Tri coming in telling someone that what he saw during the game was wrong because "these stats say so". That's putting 100% stats above the eye test. There's no mix there. Plus it's a very small sample and we know those stats are usually.

And also with stats you always got to nitpick which one you want.

Like again Tri saying that Kovalchuk wasn't even a good player for us "cause he was not driving the play based on these stats" Yet he's top 3 in points per game as a Devils player. And i mean lol We ALL SAW Kovy taking over games completely, carrying the team on his back during that insane run and many people had him getting the Conn Smyth if we would have won the cup. He was also doing a lot that was not always showing on the stats sheets. But yeah, he wasn't good at all, he wasn't driving the play. lol Again, that's letting the stats 100% infect your views.

Edited February 16, 2018 by SterioDesign

[NJDfan1711]

Missed most of this game but caught bits and pieces, and all of the end.  Looked like an all around good effort, and that's exactly what we needed.  

Taylor Hall now with a point in 16 straight games, the longest streak this season by anyone. 

[Derlique]

3 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

Why was Nico’s a goal that “should be stopped”? He was flying in on a 2-1 with one of the few “snipers” on the team. Darling didn’t come out to challenge the shooter, stayed too deep in his net assuming pass. I thought it was a perfectly reasonable goal. 

I disagree with Triumph that my eyes deceived me (though I guess naturally I would). Long stretches of the game felt like domination. In the first period especially, I commented that it felt like we were dominating the game and still tied at 1. 

If you look at one of the angles, Darling's blocker was in position just as Nico took the shot. He moved it a couple of inches to the side in what seemed like a total guess move. Darling was realllyyy bad last night.

[CommonDreads]

If you ever feel like you spend your money too recklessly, just remember that the Hurricanes gave Scott Darling $16.6M in the summer and you'll realize your habits are not too bad.