You'll never win with Schneider

[mfitz804]

28 minutes ago, DJ Eco said:

I must be watching different games than some people here. It's not like Cory's pitching a sub .800 sv. % and we're scoring 4-5 goals and still losing. He hasn't been elite, but all this talk about "outplaying teams and still losing" has more to do with "outplaying teams but only scoring 1-2 goals (of which at least 1 seems to always need to be from an individual effort by Taylor Hall)" than Cory being below average. He's been about average, which kind of stinks, but is not the underlying reason we're losing right now. I don't care about the appearances of Kinkaid helping us tread water the last month and change, Kinkaid too was average (minus maybe one or two performances) and Taylor Hall carried us through it.

I'd really love if Cory could stand on his head every night like he did past few seasons, but that's unrealistic. What's realistic is to expect something, anything, from our secondary forwards. Give Taylor Hall SOME help for god's sakes. He's got 30-points over anyone else in our lineup, which is absurd, that's the problem with this team right there.

Cory hasn’t been good. But even if he was, we’d still be losing because our offense has been subpar for weeks, aside from one guy. 

Not only is he 30 points above the next highest scorer on the team, the only reason #2 and #3 have what they have are because of Hall. Hischier and Bratt would probably have 15 points each without Hall. 

[NJDevs4978]

They never would have won today's game with Cory, at least not this rotted corpse of Cory that's been in net for two years.  KK really has to get the run now and at least get two bad ones in a row before getting hooked.

[Daniel]

KK is the starter now.

[Devils Pride 26]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

KK is the starter now.

Anyone good with photoshop? Captain Phillips “I am the captain now” would be a great one. 

[Nicomo]

32 minutes ago, Devils Pride 26 said:

Anyone good with photoshop? Captain Phillips “I am the captain now” would be a great one. 

Shouldn’t that be Hall?

[Devils Pride 26]

2 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Shouldn’t that be Hall?

Eventually. I was just going by how Daniels post read. 

['7']

15 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

They never would have won today's game with Cory, at least not this rotted corpse of Cory that's been in net for two years.  KK really has to get the run now and at least get two bad ones in a row before getting hooked.

 

15 hours ago, Daniel said:

KK is the starter now.

 

I agree. If Cory started this game, in some way shape or form Nashville would've gotten at least 3 in regulation and we're out of there with 0 points as usual. Despite the usual late game breakdown we were at least able to secure one. And then a second point. It's not always pretty with him. I don't love the early game goals either but he was pretty much brilliant since then. Style points don't matter. Wins do and he got the W

[hit the post]

 I'm sure many here will disagree but I think with Cory's game so bad and KK being at best ....so so....we're in deep sh!t in net . They need to seek out a true starter in the off season because without great goaltending you don't win Stanley cups. Marty proved this time and time again winning many 1-0-- 2-1 games. This team still needs a solid #1 goalie.

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, hit the post said:

 I'm sure many here will disagree but I think with Cory's game so bad and KK being at best ....so so....we're in deep sh!t in net . They need to seek out a true starter in the off season because without great goaltending you don't win Stanley cups. Marty proved this time and time again winning many 1-0-- 2-1 games. This team still needs a solid #1 goalie.

Agreed. The choice between Cory and KK is a choice “for now” only. 

[bobilly45]

Let's sum up the 2 goalies so far in what I believe is the most telling stat.

This season cory has started  38 games and won 17.   Kk has started 27 games and won 17.  Kk has had 11 less starts then cory and won the same amount of games.    This tells you who makes the clutch/timely saves and who doesn't.   

[NJDevs4978]

1 hour ago, bobilly45 said:

Let's sum up the 2 goalies so far in what I believe is the most telling stat.

This season cory has started  38 games and won 17.   Kk has started 27 games and won 17.  Kk has had 11 less starts then cory and won the same amount of games.    This tells you who makes the clutch/timely saves and who doesn't.   

Clutch saves is an easy crutch and I'm of the belief Cory isn't clutch either.  But wins/losses really have very little to do with the fact one guy's just flat playing better than the other in 2018.  You can take W/L away and just look at splits and KK's just flat performing circles around Cory in his last several starts compared to Cory's last ten.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

18 hours ago, bobilly45 said:

Let's sum up the 2 goalies so far in what I believe is the most telling stat.

This season cory has started  38 games and won 17.   Kk has started 27 games and won 17.  Kk has had 11 less starts then cory and won the same amount of games.    This tells you who makes the clutch/timely saves and who doesn't.   

Can we put you on irrevocable waivers for the purpose of sending you to facebook?

Seriously though, with you it's just an anti-Cory agenda.  Look, NO ONE would argue that KK hasn't been the better goalie as of late...KK's put up a .934 save% in his last 8 games, and Cory's at .875 over his last 10, and has looked about as bad at that save% would suggest.  KK definitely benefitted from some very good fortune in his last game, but like I said in the Predators GDT, he made some very big saves in that one, and just based on recent performance, I have to give him the game in Vegas. 

But now trying to go with wins as some kind of argument for KK is just idiotic.  After his first 21 GP, KK had an 11-7-2 record, despite putting up an .891 save% to that point, and damned near EVERYONE on the board screaming for KK to be traded, benched for Lack, tarred and feathered, you name it.  He picked up 6 of those 11 wins when he allowed three goals or more (he allowed a total of 22 goals in those six wins).  So let's not make too big of a deal of this "17 wins in less games" crap as some kind of clutch-meter, just to forward a weak agenda.  KK's overall record (now seven wins in games where he's allowed 3 goals or more) isn't really indicative of his full season.   

Here's another way to look at it:

Cory's record in his 17 wins:  2.02 GAA, .938 save% 

KK's record in his 17 wins:  2.38 GAA, .920 save% (and it's his last 6 wins that have pulled these numbers up...he put up a .908 save% over his first 11 wins)

As for the present, like I said, I give KK the start against Vegas (he's earned it)...and if he plays well again, I give him the start against the Kings (with Cory going against the Ducks).  It gets murkier if Cory has a big game against the Ducks, should KK play well against both the Golden Knights and the Kings...but hell, actually having both KK and Schneider not sucking at the same time would be a hell of a good problem to have.    

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[DevsMan84]

48 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Can we put you on irrevocable waivers for the purpose of sending you to facebook?

Seriously though, with you it's just an anti-Cory agenda.  Look, NO ONE would argue that KK has been the better goalie as of late...KK's put up a .934 save% in his last 8 games, and Cory's at .875 over his last 10, and has looked about as bad at that save% would suggest.  KK definitely benefitted from some very good fortune in his last game, but like I said in the Predators GDT, he made some very big saves in that one, and just based on recent performance, I have to give him the game in Vegas. 

But now trying to go with wins as some kind of argument for KK is just idiotic.  After his first 21 GP, KK had an 11-7-2 record, despite putting up an .891 save% to that point, and damned near EVERYONE on the board screaming for KK to be traded, benched for Lack, tarred and feathered, you name it.  He picked up 6 of those 11 wins when he allowed three goals of more (he allowed a total of 22 goals in those six wins).  So let's not make too big of a deal of this "17 wins in less games" crap as some kind of clutch-meter, just to forward a weak agenda.  KK's overall record (now seven wins in games where he's allowed 3 goals or more) isn't really indicative of his full season.   

Here's another way to look at it:

Cory's record in his 17 wins:  2.02 GAA, .938 save% 

KK's record in his 17 wins:  2.38 GAA, .920 save% (and it's his last 6 wins that have pulled these numbers up...he put up a .908 save% over his first 11 wins)

As for the present, like I said, I give KK the start against Vegas (he's earned it)...and if he plays well again, I give him the start against the Kings (with Cory going against the Ducks).  It gets murkier if Cory has a big game against the Ducks, should KK play well against both the Golden Knights and the Kings...but hell, actually having both KK and Schneider both not sucking at the same time would be a hell of a good problem to have.    

 

This post 100%.

[CommonDreads]

If you have an Athletic sub, here's a relevant read. Bad stretches and seasons happen to every good goalie, every Vezina candidate from last season is having either an equal or worse season than Schneider is now, sh!t happens

https://theathletic.com/266463/2018/03/12/four-former-goalies-discuss-why-some-of-the-nhls-biggest-stars-have-struggled-this-year/

Thought Darren Pang had an interesting take on why this happens to goalies nowadays

Quote

I’ve put a lot of thought into that question myself lately. Why does Carey Price go through a month or three weeks of poor play? Why did Henrik Lundqvist do the same thing? I’ve seen it here in St. Louis with Jake Allen two years in a row. I’ve seen Braden Holtby go through something similar – where you could say, ‘they’re all doing the same things wrong right now.’ I’m like you. I go to practice every day. I watch goalie drills every day. In an era gone by, when there were mandated practices — where you actually had hockey practices every day that you weren’t playing — the goaltenders could get out of a rut more easily because the drills you did in practice were real hockey drills. They were three-on-twos, five-on-fives, three-on-threes that complemented what you were going to face in a game.

Nowadays, a lot of practices are optional. There are three-on-oh rushes. Five-on-ohs. One-on-ohs. Flow drills. No stopping in front of the net. And the goalies just go through this, where they face the shot, slide, stay on their knees – and habits get bad. Those habits that you develop in these practices, with all these European flow drills, where there’s less battle and concentration and compete, those same types of bad habits are showing up in games for these goalies.

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by CommonDreads

[NJDevs4978]

On 3/10/2018 at 10:18 AM, DJ Eco said:

I must be watching different games than some people here. It's not like Cory's pitching a sub .800 sv. % and we're scoring 4-5 goals and still losing. He hasn't been elite, but all this talk about "outplaying teams and still losing" has more to do with "outplaying teams but only scoring 1-2 goals (of which at least 1 seems to always need to be from an individual effort by Taylor Hall)" than Cory being below average. He's been about average, which kind of stinks, but is not the underlying reason we're losing right now. I don't care about the appearances of Kinkaid helping us tread water the last month and change, Kinkaid too was average (minus maybe one or two performances) and Taylor Hall carried us through it.

I'd really love if Cory could stand on his head every night like he did past few seasons, but that's unrealistic. What's realistic is to expect something, anything, from our secondary forwards. Give Taylor Hall SOME help for god's sakes. He's got 30-points over anyone else in our lineup, which is absurd, that's the problem with this team right there.

I'd just settle for a Cory that doesn't allow crap game killer goals, I've given up the ghost on him being a goalie that 'steals' games.  He's not elite, if he ever was.  If you think it's nasty to Cory now just wait and see how Devil fans react toward him if Keith leads the team to the playoffs and Cory gets off to a slow start next year - you know he's gotta start next year no matter how the rest of this one turns out cause he's signed for another four years after this.  Can't exactly trade him unless it's for another crap contract like Bobby Ryan or another mediocre? goalie like Jake Allen or Scott Darling.

Edited March 15, 2018 by NJDevs4978

['7']

Regarding not scoring for Schneider. Well you know it's not easy for a team to actually play when the guy in net constantly gives back what they put up. In the loss to SJ they came out flat. But Schneider couldn't hold the fort. He lets up another softy. They battle back with a goal. But then right away it's two more soft stoppable goals and it's 3-1 and they're dead. In these Cory games the team comes out and plays tight. They have no faith in their goaltender. The Devils sometimes come out flat for Kinkaid but generally you can see in their play when Keith is in net is that they have more confidence

When Keith lets one up it's "Get it back I'll shut the door" and usually...he does

When Cory lets one up it's "Here we go again" and it's usually an unsteady frightened turtle in net and a deflated team up front.

And that's been going on since day one. It's not just some random coincidence over these years that they score more for goalies not named Schneider. Or that they play with more confidence and looser in front of goalies not named Schneider.

Edited March 21, 2018 by '7'

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, '7' said:

Regarding not scoring for Schneider. Well you know it's not easy for a team to actually play when the guy in net constantly gives back what they put up. In the loss to SJ they came out flat. But Schneider couldn't hold the fort. He lets up another softy. They battle back with a goal. But then right away it's two more soft stoppable goals and it's 3-1 and they're dead. In these Cory games the team comes out and plays tight. They have no faith in their goaltender. The Devils sometimes come out flat for Kinkaid but generally you can see in their play when Keith is in net is that they have more confidence

When Keith lets one up it's "Get it back I'll shut the door" and usually...he does

When Cory lets one up it's "Here we go again" and it's usually an unsteady frightened turtle in net and a deflated team up front.

And that's been going on since day one. It's not just some random coincidence over these years that they score more for goalies not named Schneider. Or that they play with more confidence and looser in front of goalies not named Schneider.

Put succinctly, winning is actually a meaningful statistic, despite what analytics people who have never won anything might tell you.

[Devilsfan118]

Wow.

Is this guy done for good?

['7']

6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Put succinctly, winning is actually a meaningful statistic, despite what analytics people who have never won anything might tell you.

Yes. Some people are just winners and find ways to win more than they should with less talent, or even as their talent fades just out of sheer guile, resourcefulness, and focus in the moment. At certain moments. Others have better talent but can't seem to win regardless of what situation they find themselves in. Their presence, style, body language,  etc while at the helm of a critical role does not command the respect and confidence of others. 

Kinkaid isn't a savior but he has something that inspires a different effort in front of him and he's won probably more than he should at the NHL level. Schneider has won far less than he should.

Just now, Devilsfan118 said:

Wow.

Is this guy done for good?

No. His NHL career will go on. He'll just be a loser for the rest of it. 

[bobilly45]

Pretty sure cory is playing his way out of a starters spot.   Ride kk, if we make playoffs and he's still playing well, keep him in.

['7']

Just now, bobilly45 said:

Pretty sure cory is playing his way out of a starters spot.   Ride kk, if we make playoffs and he's still playing well, keep him in.

He's long since choked his starting spot away. He's lost 11 games in a row and allowed 3 or more in every game. That's not NHL caliber. 

It's Kinkaid/Lack the rest of the way. Cory should not be allowed to play goal for the Devils until he grows a backbone or an ounce of mental toughness

I don't want to hear "oh he's due" or "the herpda derp math says this can't continue" 

Well yea the Devils spit on your Math. You can just look at this clown and I could've told you weeks ago, months ago, that he was not going to win another game. And he hasn't. 

[NJDevs4978]

This fvcker and these clowns are actually making me look forward to the Mets opener, which I didn't think was possible.  At least the month or two before they start giving me agida too.

Cory needs to be IR'ed the rest of the season and just go away, play Keith/Lack the way you were the last time this team was actually on a decent run.

Edited March 21, 2018 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

12 minutes ago, bobilly45 said:

Pretty sure cory is playing his way out of a starters spot.   Ride kk, if we make playoffs and he's still playing well, keep him in.

He might be playing his way off the TEAM at this rate though I don't know what the fvck you do to get rid of him.  You'd have to trade him for another bad contract or eat 50% of it in a trade.  But you can't have him come back if they collapse out of a playoff spot primarily because of this clown.  That would be like having Glavine come back after Game #162.

Edited March 21, 2018 by NJDevs4978

[skeeter]

I could have started this thread 4 years ago. 

['7']

33 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

This fvcker and these clowns are actually making me look forward to the Mets opener, which I didn't think was possible.  At least the month or two before they start giving me agida too.

Cory needs to be IR'ed the rest of the season and just go away, play Keith/Lack the way you were the last time this team was actually on a decent run.

This must happen asap. They need to have a coach/gm/player meeting. Shero  Hynes and Schneider and tell them he's no longer playing this year. Be it a phantom IR or outright benching. If it's Kinkaid for 7 and Lack 2 the rest of the way...they may have a shot. If things finally start breaking right. But any game Cory starts the team is immediately broken and defeated before they take the ice.