New York Mets 2018 season thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 hours ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

So, question: what would it take from the Yankees to get DeGrom or Syndergaard? Assume that anyone not named Bird, Judge, Sanchez, Severino, or Torres is available. And for the sake of this exercise, assume that you'd actually make any trade with the Yankees.

Does something like Andujar or Tyler Austin, Clint Frazier, and a few B-level prospects bring back either? You get an immediate starting 3rd baseman or 1st baseman (if Adrian Gonzalez remembers that it's 2018 any time soon), and Frazier is an MLB-ready bat who would immediately be one of the most exciting young bats the Mets have had in a long time. (He's currently one of the most exciting young bats the Yankees have had in a long time). 

Am I way off on value here? 

Nothing against you (and I will happily discuss this potential trade scenario with you shortly), but one thing that fans of teams other than the Yankees HATE is when Yankee fans go into "So what star/superstar player can we pry from another team...because we're the almighty Yankees and we should get whatever we want, and teams should be willing to give it to us."  The rest of MLB isn't dreaming of ways to help the Yankees win yet another friggin' Championship.  Your team is already pretty ridiculously stacked...do you really need a top-flite (or in Thor's case, a potentially top-flite) starting pitcher?  I think the Yankees would be fine with a solid middle-tier guy, if they decide that they really need another starter.  With that offense (sure, they might be prone come postseason, when there's less chum to fatten up on), a guy who can pitch 6+ IP and give up 3 ER should have plenty of chances to win games as a Yankee.

Semi-rant aside, and looking at this as a pure "discussing a baseball move", as far as pure Yankee untouchables go, on your list I think only Judge and Severino are the only ones 100% off the table...Yankees can't possibly trade a young Judge (who hits like Mickey Mantle), and why trade a good pitcher to get a good pitcher?  I'm not so sure the Mets really need a first base prospect just yet...they have Dominic Smith in AAA (who's still a prospect but has seen his stock fall a bit) and Paul Alonso in AA (who's raking at the moment, but guys like Kevin Plawecki and others have shredded it in AA too). 

In this case, you HAVE to be willing to give to get, and it should cost the Yankees a "Met Premium"...the fans already have zero trust in the Wilpons or Alderson, and if the Mets were ever going to do something like this, they have to make sure that the return is overwhelming and something that, in terms of pure value, can't really be debated as a negative right off the bat...it's bad enough that the Mets never seem to be terribly interested in every trying to go all-in on a WS run, but to now help the crosstown team win one?!  You know this is not going to go over well with Mets fans at all, especially early on. 

Keep in mind what the Yankees would be getting:  in deGrom, a terrific pitcher who is STILL not making massive dollars, STILL has two more seasons after this one before he can declare FA (in 2021), and when he finally DOES become a free agent (assuming the Yankees don't just buy out his 2019 and 2020 arbitration years in signing him to a long-term deal), you'd probably only have to sign him to 4-5 years, as he'll be 32 heading into the 2021 season...you won't have to go crazy long-term with him.  As we know, a LOT can happen with pitchers, and today's star can become tomorrow's zilch, in a hurry (see Harvey, Matt) but deGrom has been a very good performer, and doesn't show any signs of slowing up.  He's also a guy that Mets fans LOVE...one of the few players that we feel that we can truly embrace.  You want him, you're going to pay. 

With Noah, it's a bit different.  Noah is a guy we WANT to embrace, but he seems to be content to be a cartoon caricature, and a pure thrower who wants to strike out everyone he faces with 100+ mph gas...great, but everyone knows that's what's coming now, and guys in the majors can hit 100 mph fastballs.  Noah is seeing a lot more pitches fouled off (driving up the pitch count), and in his last 18 starts, he's given up 92 hits in 95 IP...he generally doesn't walk guys (only 16 BB over this same sample) and keeps the ball in the park (only 5 HR), and of course his K-to-BB ratio is beastly (110-to-16), but he's just not really pitching or thinking, as much as he is constantly trying to overpower.  He's still obviously very young (four years younger than deGrom in fact), but we're getting to the point where we want to see pure dominance, instead of hints of it, or yet another "pretty good" outing.  And like deGrom, he still has multiple arbitration years left...he can't become a FA until 2022.

One other possible scenario (assuming the Yankees won't give up quite enough assets) is for the Yankees to be willing to take on at least one odious contract off the Met books.  Say Vargas and Lagares.  I fully get that Yankees would have zero use for either player (and Lagares is out for all of 2018), but I'm sure ANY opportunity that the Mets have to shed bad money, they'll jump on in a heartbeat.  I'd love to dump Bruce's money, but the Yankees won't want to take that on, and I don't blame them one bit. 

Basically, to sum up, Thor and deGrom have a TON of value, and if the Yankees really want to add one of them, the Mets have have HAVE to make sure they get a ton in return, or get a lot back while shedding some dead money...I would understand completely, if this ever became a thing and these teams started discussing it, if the Yankees quickly decided to find another arm at a lower price...like I said previously, I really don't think the Yankees need to shoot all that high, especially if they have to pay a prohibitive price. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Thanks again Sandy for shoving that P.O.S. Robles down our throats yet again.  You're probably the only one to be shocked that he gave up yet another HR.

Good, boo that loser.  He deserves all of it.

[NJDevs4978]

I honestly don't even have it in me to debate what a Yankee asking price for Thor or deGrom should be, because the two organizations couldn't even get through Neil Walker or Jay Bruce trade negotiations before it became a political fight last year.  Cashman and Sandy/Jeff aren't exactly Shero and Gordon in terms of a relationship.  Just as well cause I really wouldn't even want to see a major trade between the teams (Walker or Bruce as a rental at the deadline don't qualify, neither did Armando Benitez back in the day), it's seemingly only downside as the Grabner disaster of a trade proved.

Edited June 1, 2018 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

And Sandy getting into shoot from the hip mode again, this time about the team's injury woes

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/david-lennon/mets-cubs-1.18881467

Quote

 

Alderson doesn’t seem content with that. Instead, he is miffed by the continuing perception that the Mets mishandle the health of their players, to the point that he surprised us by summoning a bogeyman from way back in 2008, the botched concussion case of poor Ryan Church.

“I’ve been here eight years. I don’t even know who Ryan Church is, OK?” Alderson said. “But I know he’s been in the lead sentence on more than one occasion over the last few years.”

...

This year, a strained hip flexor has limited him to 37 of the Mets’ first 54 games, with no set date for his return. To Alderson, each day he’s not in the lineup makes that money spent look worse, and it probably annoys him that the Mets keep getting criticized for Cespedes coming up lame.

“We don’t control the way he comes in on a fly ball,” he said. “We don’t control when he slides into second base. Those are all things that happen in the course of a game. Some people are more susceptible to injury than others. Maybe you can say, ‘Well, gee, susceptible to injury. Shouldn’t that have entered into some decision in the past?’ And the answer to that would be yes in all probability. That all gets taken into account in that decision-making as well.’’

 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Sandy, when you've been a colossal fvck-up for the most part since coming here, you're not going to get the benefit of the doubt much (if at all).  Just the way it is. 

Re:  Cespedes, I'm sorry, that guy doesn't really want to play.  Turned into every bit the fat cat that we all feared he might once he got the big money.  Oh sure, he'll play his 80-120 games or so, and due to natural ability he'll put up good to very good numbers whenever he decides he can be bothered to take the field, but he ain't killing himself to get out there. 

No more Robles.  Ever.  Just for fvcking ONCE, move on from a loser expediously (or what passes for it in SandyLand).   

[NJDevs4978]

The grumbling about Ces is getting louder

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-sports-injuries-mets-botte-20180601-story.html

Quote

 

“It’s been big. We count on his offense. We paid him a lot of money to come out there and produce and we don’t have him right now, so it’s been tough, especially when we’re facing lefties,” Callaway said when asked about Cespedes before Friday’s game against the Cubs. “I think he and Frazier are two of the guys we’re gonna count on most when a lefty’s pitching.

“To not have him in the lineup against lefties is tough, but even when a righty’s pitching, we need offense. We’ve had probably more close games than I’ve ever seen and it makes it tough on the pitchers.”

One day earlier, during his pre-series media address, a feisty Alderson had praised second baseman Asdrubal Cabrera for playing through nagging injuries and continuing to be productive, while also publicly lamenting Cespedes’ recent recovery period. The GM admitted to being “a little surprised” that Cespedes had yet to return to the lineup and he seemed to indicate at least some degree of buyer’s remorse over re-signing the two-time All-Star as a free agent following the 2016 season.

 

['7']

On 5/31/2018 at 8:40 PM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Thanks again Sandy for shoving that P.O.S. Robles down our throats yet again.  You're probably the only one to be shocked that he gave up yet another HR.

Good, boo that loser.  He deserves all of it.

I have never seen somebody pitch more brainlessly than him. Look up the definition of thrower and it's his face (next to Bobby Parnell's). Ok he has decent velocity to sometimes blow somebody away who doesn't have the bat speed anymore, but his outings are outright 50/50 coin flips at this point. They know a tantalizing fastball with no movement is coming right down the middle and major league hitters annihilate that ball.

He will never make it unless he actually learns what it means to pitch. I think it may already be over for him in terms of becoming any sort of decent relieve some day. 6 home runs in 14 innings isn't a statline, it's a laugh track.

Oh and great job just letting Chasen Bradford go Sandy and Co. That's the second outstanding reliever named Bradford we've pissed away.

['7']

17 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

The grumbling about Ces is getting louder

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-sports-injuries-mets-botte-20180601-story.html

 

They had a team meeting today as well and it was long overdue. And Frazier and Ces deserve to hear about it. If this team has ANY window to do anything left, it slams shut after this season. Ces again can't get on the field AGAIN. I swear to god I bet you can find 80 year olds who played goalie in the NHL with better hips than him.

Call these guys out. Suck it up and PLAY. No other team has this stuff happen. Guys go out there a bit battered and bruised and still perform. I still remember Brian Jordan massacring us in 1999 with a broken hand. 

['7']

https://www.mlb.com/news/david-wright-hopeful-about-baseball-activities/c-279189950

Quote

Wright feels good, starts baseball activities

Mets third baseman hopes to ramp up intensity in coming weeks

NEW YORK -- Long before Citi Field filled up for Thursday night's game against the Cubs, and even before many of his teammates reported to work, David Wright emerged from the Mets' clubhouse for a light game of catch. As head athletic trainer Brian Chicklo and physical therapist John Zajac watched, Wright uncorked throws with intensity for the first time since last August -- "and that," Wright said, referring to last year, "didn't go so well."

Thursday went markedly better for Wright, who was throwing for the first time this year. Wright never progressed to this stage during Spring Training, still battling back and shoulder issues that have kept him out of Major League games since May 2016. He did briefly go on Minor League rehab assignment last summer, before renewed shoulder pain forced him to shut it down.

 

He's persistent to a fault. Who knows where this ultimately ends up....I'm guessing the same place it ended up the last 10 starts and stops. But this is certainly encouraging. And inspiring. He's a good guy and if he can get on the field for some kind of last hurrah I'd be thrilled. But he has to hang it up this offseason. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Looks like Sandy's collection of killer bats is about to fvck deGrom out of another win.  If not them, the BP would've probably taken care of that anyway.

[NJDevs4978]

At this rate deGrom will be the first non reliever to win the Cy Young with fewer than ten wins

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

What a bunch of gutless losers.  I can't imagine how this feels for Jacob.  Sandy could be fired tomorrow and it wouldn't feel soon enough.

Devils hockey never felt so far away.  At least THAT team's GM has hunger, fire, creativity, and an awareness of how his league's game is played in 2018.  As long Sandy's gone by season's end, I'll tolerate yet another Mets season going right into the toilet.  At least I won't have to hear any more bullsh!t leaks about how Sandy's fired up in the offseason.  

Edited June 3, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

It's full on dumpster fire here and the season is drifting towards becoming unsalvageable. 

Calloway may not even be 60 games into his coaching career but I can tell pretty clearly he's a hopeless dope. Sometimes you just need to cut your losses. He needs to go this offseason. This was a horrible horrible hire. He's dumb, unimaginative, uninspiring

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 hours ago, '7' said:

It's full on dumpster fire here and the season is drifting towards becoming unsalvageable. 

Calloway may not even be 60 games into his coaching career but I can tell pretty clearly he's a hopeless dope. Sometimes you just need to cut your losses. He needs to go this offseason. This was a horrible horrible hire. He's dumb, unimaginative, uninspiring

Yeah Callaway looks more and more like a guy who's in well over his head.  Or a guy who's strictly good at being a pitching coach.

I'm fine with both Sandy and Mickey getting the boot, and a new GM getting to bring in his own guy (even if it's a placeholder type, because the new GM will have a bit of a mess to clean up, thanks to Sandy sucking this offseason).  

The new guy is going to have a hell of a time trying to get the terminal cancer that is Yoenis Cespedes the fvck out of here.  I'll give Yoenis this much...he put on a hell of act giving a damn when the carrot of an expensive contract was still dangling before him.  God what a fvcking disaster.

['7']

4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah Callaway looks more and more like a guy who's in well over his head.  Or a guy who's strictly good at being a pitching coach.

I'm fine with both Sandy and Mickey getting the boot, and a new GM getting to bring in his own guy (even if it's a placeholder type, because the new GM will have a bit of a mess to clean up, thanks to Sandy sucking this offseason).  

The new guy is going to have a hell of a time trying to get the terminal cancer that is Yoenis Cespedes the fvck out of here.  I'll give Yoenis this much...he put on a hell of act giving a damn when the carrot of an expensive contract was still dangling before him.  God what a fvcking disaster.

That bizarre obsession with golf he has was just a bad omen as to what was to come. And Frazier with his declaration ("Waaah I need to play in the minors first before I'm back in the lineup") Enough of the baby antics. I'm sure Frazier would craw; to 3b at Yankee Stadium with two broken legs. He comes to the Mets and all of a sudden he's a delicate flower. Enough already

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 hours ago, '7' said:

That bizarre obsession with golf he has was just a bad omen as to what was to come. And Frazier with his declaration ("Waaah I need to play in the minors first before I'm back in the lineup") Enough of the baby antics. I'm sure Frazier would craw; to 3b at Yankee Stadium with two broken legs. He comes to the Mets and all of a sudden he's a delicate flower. Enough already

It's funny...it just hit me now what the Mets have become.  They are the New York Rangers of the late 90s-early 00s.  A clueless-yet-arrogant (and completely unlikable) GM...though I think Sather actually did care somewhat.  A bunch of aging vets coming here simply for a paycheck as their careers begin to wind down.  None of them could give the slightest damn about the team or the results.  Just like the GM, they're still cashing paychecks...what the difference?  A team full of Roger fvcking Dorns. 

The only way that I think you can change it is to clean house...and by clean house, I mean REALLY clean house.  It goes without saying that Somnambulant Sandy and that idiot he hired to be manager have to go...it sucks in that I guess you can't really do much about either party now, but the day after the 2018 season ends, get both of them the fvck out of here.  I was willing to give Mickey a chance, even with some of his more disturbing quotes and odd on-field decisions, but with the whole "pressure of NY" crap over the weekend, I'm done with him.  Boomer and Gregg said it perfectly this morning...Mickey was doing the whole "My friend has this problem..." thing, when he's really talking about himself.  He might as well have said "Back in Cleveland, when I was just the pitching coach, everything was so much easier..."  Whatever.  Like you said '7', sometimes you need to recognize a bad mistake early on and cut your losses.  Sucks, because I was really hopeful that a young buck could grow and learn here on the job, and Callaway seemed to have a good enough track record to suggest that he might find a way to become a solid manager in time.  But he's a dumpster fire. 

The near-impossible task will be someone convincing the Wilpons that truly eradicating the foul stench surrounding the Mets will cost them money, and not in a truly productive way, as far as the on-field product goes.  They will have to eat some serious coin to make it happen, but right now the feeling (especially) is that all the Wilpons care about is saving pennies at the expense of  every other thing...and that overpaid stiffs will get to hang around forever, because if the Mets have to pay them, then they might as well cross their fingers and hope for the best.

I say fvck that...sure, it's not my money, but this is the worst kind of bad team that there is to watch.  As we know, bad teams are not created equal...there's the bad team that has some young developing players with a wave of youth in the minors ready to make the jump over the next couple of seasons (think the 1983 Mets), and then there's a team like this.  After this season, hopefully after the Wilpons manage to bring in a GM that actually had a fvck or two to give, I pray the Wilpons give such a GM real freedom to tear this thing down properly.  Get rid of Bruce.  Dump Frazier.  Convince the Wilpons that eating some of Cespedes' salary to get him the fvck off the team is truly a good thing...all he's going to do if he stays here is decide that he plays when he feels "up to it", and spend 30-50% of his season malingering and missing games for god-knows-what...he's an absolute cancer at this point, and the only way to rid oneself of cancer is to go after it quickly and aggressively.  It's not so much that Cespedes is so fvcking disappointing...it's frustrating that Cespedes was so fvcking PREDICTABLY disappointing.  Really sucks that a guy who clearly had so much natural ability has damned near nothing in the heart department.  But don't keep him around and continue to let him poison the rest of the team because you hope that all of sudden he'll start to care again.  He won't, unless there's something in it for him...all you can hope for is that he "miraculously" feels better come late June-early July, with the deadline looming, and that he smells a chance to play for a contender, which might temporarily pique his interest. 

In some ways, this reminds me of when leagues strike, in that I quickly find other things to do with my free time.  For so many years I've been all-in on the Mets, even when they're bad at the major-league level...I check out the affiliates, see what the up-and-comers are doing, etc.  But not this season.  I've had enough.  My leisure time is too valuable to spend watching these dead-men-walking oh-I'll-play-when-I'm-good-and-ready absolute stiffs.  They're not worthy of my attention.  There's exceptions obviously, re:  certain players, and I feel terrible for Jacob deGrom...this guy is far too good for the Mets, and he truly deserves to pitch for a team where his remaining prime years won't be completely wasted.  The new GM is going to need time to tear this down and properly fix this from the low minors up...deGrom should get a legit chance to pitch for a winner. 

On a side note, as much as I've enjoyed Nimmo, until he can start to hold his own against lefties, it's hard to truly consider him to be a true everyday OF.  He's slashing .162/.295/.297 against lefties this year, and though it's obviously small-sample stuff (as his career is only 149 games old), his career slash against southpaws is .186/.300/.267, in 101 plate appearances.  If there's a guy who'd be willing to put the work in though, I'm sure that it's him. 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's funny...it just hit me now what the Mets have become.  They are the New York Rangers of the late 90s-early 00s.  A clueless-yet-arrogant (and completely unlikable) GM...though I think Sather actually did care somewhat.  A bunch of aging vets coming here simply for a paycheck as their careers begin to wind down.  None of them could give the slightest damn about the team or the results.  Just like the GM, they're still cashing paychecks...what the difference?  A team full of Roger fvcking Dorns. 

The only way that I think you can change it is to clean house...and by clean house, I mean REALLY clean house.  It goes without saying that Somnambulant Sandy and that idiot he hired to be manager have to go...it sucks in that I guess you can't really do much about either party now, but the day after the 2018 season ends, get both of them the fvck out of here.  I was willing to give Mickey a chance, even with some of his more disturbing quotes and odd on-field decisions, but with the whole "pressure of NY" crap over the weekend, I'm done with him.  Boomer and Gregg said it perfectly this morning...Mickey was doing the whole "My friend has this problem..." thing, when he's really talking about himself.  He might as well have said "Back in Cleveland, when I was just the pitching coach, everything was so much easier..."  Whatever.  Like you said '7', sometimes you need to recognize a bad mistake early on and cut your losses.  Sucks, because I was really hopeful that a young buck could grow and learn here on the job, and Callaway seemed to have a good enough track record to suggest that he might find a way to become a solid manager in time.  But he's a dumpster fire. 

The near-impossible task will be someone convincing the Wilpons that truly eradicating the foul stench surrounding the Mets will cost them money, and not in a truly productive way, as far as the on-field product goes.  They will have to eat some serious coin to make it happen, but right now the feeling (especially) is that all the Wilpons care about is saving pennies at the expense of  every other thing...and that overpaid stiffs will get to hang around forever, because if the Mets have to pay them, then they might as well cross their fingers and hope for the best.

I say fvck that...sure, it's not my money, but this is the worst kind of bad team that there is to watch.  As we know, bad teams are not created equal...there's the bad team that has some young developing players with a wave of youth in the minors ready to make the jump over the next couple of seasons (think the 1983 Mets), and then there's a team like this.  After this season, hopefully after the Wilpons manage to bring in a GM that actually had a fvck or two to give, I pray the Wilpons give such a GM real freedom to tear this thing down properly.  Get rid of Bruce.  Dump Frazier.  Convince the Wilpons that eating some of Cespedes' salary to get him the fvck off the team is truly a good thing...all he's going to do if he stays here is decide that he plays when he feels "up to it", and spend 30-50% of his season malingering and missing games for god-knows-what...he's an absolute cancer at this point, and the only way to rid oneself of cancer is to go after it quickly and aggressively.  It's not so much that Cespedes is so fvcking disappointing...it's frustrating that Cespedes was so fvcking PREDICTABLY disappointing.  Really sucks that a guy who clearly had so much natural ability has damned near nothing in the heart department.  But don't keep him around and continue to let him poison the rest of the team because you hope that all of sudden he'll start to care again.  He won't, unless there's something in it for him...all you can hope for is that he "miraculously" feels better come late June-early July, with the deadline looming, and that he smells a chance to play for a contender, which might temporarily pique his interest. 

In some ways, this reminds me of when leagues strike, in that I quickly find other things to do with my free time.  For so many years I've been all-in on the Mets, even when they're bad at the major-league level...I check out the affiliates, see what the up-and-comers are doing, etc.  But not this season.  I've had enough.  My leisure time is too valuable to spend watching these dead-men-walking oh-I'll-play-when-I'm-good-and-ready absolute stiffs.  They're not worthy of my attention.  There's exceptions obviously, re:  certain players, and I feel terrible for Jacob deGrom...this guy is far too good for the Mets, and he truly deserves to pitch for a team where his remaining prime years won't be completely wasted.  The new GM is going to need time to tear this down and properly fix this from the low minors up...deGrom should get a legit chance to pitch for a winner. 

On a side note, as much as I've enjoyed Nimmo, until he can start to hold his own against lefties, it's hard to truly consider him to be a true everyday OF.  He's slashing .162/.295/.297 against lefties this year, and though it's obviously small-sample stuff (as his career is only 149 games old), his career slash against southpaws is .186/.300/.267, in 101 plate appearances.  If there's a guy who'd be willing to put the work in though, I'm sure that it's him. 

 

I still have this creeping feeling that the best baseball people at all levels of this organization gradually left once Doubleday sold his stake in 2002. Meaning we need a full purge and full audit of things. From the lowest level scouts, the single A 3B coach, all the way up to Sandy. We need a full baseball reboot to cleanse things here. That's why I feel this lolmets stuff persists even after supposed regime changes. And Jay Horwitz is the most incompetent PR man I have ever seen in any business. Can we please have somebody who understands todays media and not some fossil?

deGrom doesn't deserve this. I wouldn't be upset if we traded him to a real contender with a real offense but the return had better be a plethora of young and talented players. And I want a top 15 prospect in ALL of baseball coming back if we deal him. Same with Syndergaard. We cannot let the 2017 deadline happen again. No more raw low level talents.

Worst thing about Mickey is that it just seems the team doesn't believe in him as a leader and a true veteran field general who can handle anything. He's timid, flustered, confused, and just not ready for prime time. The players on the field know what's going on they see his decisions and they must be shaking their heads. Callaway is a manager with no bark or bite. At least Collins had that. He was a dope at times but I do believe they at least respected him and played hard for him. I've seen a lot worse teams than this give more for Collins than this team is doing for Callaway. I mean it's early June and it looks like he's lost the locker room in year 1. That's pathetic that Collins actually is looking better compared to Callaway

Edited June 4, 2018 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, '7' said:

I still have this creeping feeling that the best baseball people at all levels of this organization gradually left once Doubleday sold his stake in 2002. Meaning we need a full purge and full audit of things. From the lowest level scouts, the single A 3B coach, all the way up to Sandy. We need a full baseball reboot to cleanse things here. That's why I feel this lolmets stuff persists even after supposed regime changes. And Jay Horwitz is the most incompetent PR man I have ever seen in any business. Can we please have somebody who understands todays media and not some fossil?

deGrom doesn't deserve this. I wouldn't be upset if we traded him to a real contender with a real offense but the return had better be a plethora of young and talented players. And I want a top 15 prospect in ALL of baseball coming back if we deal him. Same with Syndergaard. We cannot let the 2017 deadline happen again. No more raw low level talents.

Worst thing about Mickey is that it just seems the team doesn't believe in him as a leader and a true veteran field general who can handle anything. He's timid, flustered, confused, and just not ready for prime time. The players on the field know what's going on they see his decisions and they must be shaking their heads. Callaway is a manager with no bark or bite. At least Collins had that. He was a dope at times but I do believe they at least respected him and played hard for him. I've seen a lot worse teams than this give more for Collins than this team is doing for Callaway. I mean it's early June and it looks like he's lost the locker room in year 1. That's pathetic that Collins actually is looking better compared to Callaway

I'll actually be thrilled for deGrom if he goes to a team worthy of his ability.  I root for the Red Sox second, but only really out of hatred for the Yankees...I can't say there's any real truly heartfelt passionate interest.  But if deGrom somehow ever wound up there, I'd probably root for them a little harder...they'll never be my #1 team (I don't think I can ever dump the Mets), but at least I might derive some level of joy watching baseball for a while. 

Your last sentence sums things up perfectly...Callaway is making Collins look better than he really was.  Collins was bad, but even as bad as he was, we've always acknowledged that there were some things that he brought to the table (#1 among them, his players usually at least often playing hard for him).  I don't know what Callaway brings at all.  He talked an interesting game earlier (especially about how he was going to handle the 'pen), but it seems like all that he said previously was pretty much BS. 

I agree, I think you clean house now as much as possible.  Maybe as long as the Wilpons own the team, the Mets will never be able to be anything more than the lolMets...unless they somehow get completely out of the way and get Jeffy the fvck out of the day-to-day operations.  Can you imagine how bad it can get if Fred passes away?  At least I think his heart is somewhere in the right place, even with the constant missteps...he just never understands his fanbase.  Jeffy on the other hand...

[NJDevs4978]

I can't neccesarily compare the Mets to the Rangers only because the Rangers would at least overpay for the biggest names-high ticket FA's at Neiman Marcus while we overpay for the second-tier stuff at Dollar General and Woolworths.  Sadly they're more Jets-like than anything else.  Have a spasm of 2-3 years as a good team, then wander around in the wilderness for the better part of a decade after that although at least the Mets do occasionally get to a World Series while the Jets peak out at AFC Championship appearances.

For what it's worth the MLB Draft starts tonight at 7 PM.  With such a high pick I'll probably watch just to see who goes at 6.  Sadly I have more interest in this than actually watching a game right now.

re: deGrom the hard-luck isn't even just attached to him anymore.  ALL Mets starting pitchers combined have an ERA of like 2.5 in the last 16 games, during which the team's 5-11

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

re:  deGrom, in six out of his last eight starts, he's pitched 7+ innings and allowed just three runs COMBINED in those six starts, and never more than one run in any of them.  And he has two wins to show for it.  HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?!

re:  the Mets - Rangers comparison, it fits because you have guys just showing up for the money...sure, Cespedes is the only one getting very high per-year dollars, but you've got stiffs (like Bruce) getting pretty nice coin...on the whole the Mets are not overpaying as drastically, but they're getting similar results to those couldn't-care-less Ranger teams.  I do agree that the Mets and Jets have way too many embarrassing similarities. 

And I'm with ya Has, this team has finally beaten down the baseball fan in me.  This is an absolutely unwatchable team, and that's been true of far too many of Sandy's teams, mostly because he has no idea how to build an offense...as much as I knew the 11-1 start was a complete and utter fluke, I never expected the Mets to sink under .500 so damned FAST.  All of those "That 70s Show" teams that Sandy presided over at least had the promise of Syndergaard, deGrom, Harvey, Montero, Wheeler, and Matz waiting in the wings...and a young d'Arnaud and Conforto and others to feel some excitement about.  There's nothing now.  They're a team of completely disinterested and fragile vets and some interesting but questionable youngins.  They're incredibly boring...just a dead watch.

['7']

33 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I can't neccesarily compare the Mets to the Rangers only because the Rangers would at least overpay for the biggest names-high ticket FA's at Neiman Marcus while we overpay for the second-tier stuff at Dollar General and Woolworths.  Sadly they're more Jets-like than anything else.  Have a spasm of 2-3 years as a good team, then wander around in the wilderness for the better part of a decade after that although at least the Mets do occasionally get to a World Series while the Jets peak out at AFC Championship appearances.

For what it's worth the MLB Draft starts tonight at 7 PM.  With such a high pick I'll probably watch just to see who goes at 6.  Sadly I have more interest in this than actually watching a game right now.

re: deGrom the hard-luck isn't even just attached to him anymore.  ALL Mets starting pitchers combined have an ERA of like 2.5 in the last 16 games, during which the team's 5-11

The Mets  making it it to 5 World Series since 1962 and winning twice buries the Jets lone trip and win. The Mets are a solid cut above however strange that sounds. The Jets are kind of floating around Lions/Browns/Cardinals/Chargers territory at this point I feel. Though obviously more high profile because of where they play. 

As of right now though the Jets are definitely on the upswing with as much hope for the future as we've ever had. The Mets are totally stuck in the mud

Edited June 4, 2018 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

I honestly think the only guy really skating by on the money is Ces and MAYBE Frazier, but it's early for him still.  It's just a lousy team because of the flawed offense, injuries and a horsesh!t bullpen.  Bruce I still think is hurt, between the plantar fascitis and back spasms there's no way he's a hundred percent right now and probably never was healthy this season.  I don't even know what's in Ces's head right now, cause he didn't want to go on the DL in the first place.  Maybe it's like Evan Roberts said and Ces is a frontrunner.  He's fine when things are going well but when the team's a dumpster fire (the second half of last year, now) he's a pain in the ass that doesn't want to play.

Edited June 4, 2018 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

This is where nmig used to post about the top draft picks, I'm not exactly as up on the high schoolers as he and CR but with the way the other pitchers were falling and the fact most of the other top position players got taken before, Kelenic seems like a fine enough pick.  Probably a few years away but a well-balanced OF'er.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

12 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

This is where nmig used to post about the top draft picks, I'm not exactly as up on the high schoolers as he and CR but with the way the other pitchers were falling and the fact most of the other top position players got taken before, Kelenic seems like a fine enough pick.  Probably a few years away but a well-balanced OF'er.

In fairness, nmig was always a bit more up on the really young guys than I've ever been.  I'd scour through the Mets' minor league teams and start reading and looking around to get a feel for the true up-and-comers (what's nice about doing this kind of research is that you quickly learn to separate the over-age non-prospects having nice quick-glance years in the minors from the legit "could have a real future"-types).  Speaking of nmig, hope he's well and not losing his mind too much over how horrid these Mets are.  He's probably a dad by now...I know he got married a few years ago.  Think he's in his late 20s now. 

Kelenic was actually picked to go 6th overall in a couple of mock drafts, so at least the Mets didn't reach or try to get cute with the pick.  It seems like most guys don't start playing with the big club until they're at least 22, so this kid is probably 4 years or more away from being a Met.  No evidence to base that on of course, but it will obviously be a long time before we see this kid make his debut. 

16 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I honestly think the only guy really skating by on the money is Ces and MAYBE Frazier, but it's early for him still.  It's just a lousy team because of the flawed offense, injuries and a horsesh!t bullpen.  Bruce I still think is hurt, between the plantar fascitis and back spasms there's no way he's a hundred percent right now and probably never was healthy this season.  I don't even know what's in Ces's head right now, cause he didn't want to go on the DL in the first place.  Maybe it's like Evan Roberts said and Ces is a frontrunner.  He's fine when things are going well but when the team's a dumpster fire (the second half of last year, now) he's a pain in the ass that doesn't want to play.

It's ironic, because I've always been one to "defend" bad offensive teams, in that it's the fact that the teams don't hit that can make it look like that they don't give a damn.  I can't really argue against anything you're saying...this year has simply been my breaking point with this franchise, with the Wilpons, with Sandy, with all of it, and I'm just extra pissed, mostly because when I saw Sandy's offseason signings I had a feeling that this "Oooooo look we got in the bargain bins!  Sure it's really more of the same ol same ol, but at least we didn't pay too much, so everything's great now!" completely non-imaginative way of approaching the construction of the 2018 Mets would blow up horribly, and that's exactly what's happened.

Yeah, I think Cespedes can be interested as long as he feels like his team has a legit shot, and under those circumstances there's a chance he might really dial it in...not a 100% chance, and maybe not for the whole season, but certainly a better chance of that happening than when his team stinks.  I can see this being his MO until his contract year...at which point it wouldn't surprise me if all of a sudden "Wow, Cespy's really in incredible shape this season, and he really seems to be as locked-in as ever, after a few rough years!"  What's funny is the Mets finally might get tired of Cespedes having dogged it for three seasons at top dollar and decide he simply can't be here anymore (I get that entirely), and they move him to a team in contention.  Cespedes' new team might very well benefit from his presence for that lone year...but if they sign him for anything more than one more season, then they're morons. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Fair enough, and the rest of your post is comprehensive enough where I don't have much of a rebuttal. My cousin is a Met season ticket holder and his answer was "fvck you, you stupid obnoxious piece of sh!t, but if those guys are off the table, I'd probably trade either of them for a package of Frazier, Andujar, Austin, and Florial." 

Regarding the bolded... yeah. Really, really, really really badly we do. We've got Severino, probably one of the top-5 most valuable SP's in baseball right now. And he's a bonifide ace. 

After that, we've got Tanaka; who's currently on pace to break the "most home-runs given up by a Yankees starting pitcher" record. On a World Series contending team, he's probably a #3 guy at best. You've got CC, who'll nose around and escape with 4ER in 5.2 IP nearly every outing. That's a fine #4. I don't consider Gray to be anything other than a #5 guy; as 2015 is looking more and more like an anomaly and not the pitcher we can hope for. The team is desperate for a #1A type guy. If all goes as planned (which it rarely does, but still), this team will take on the Astros in the ALCS. The Astros' 2, 3, 4, and 5 pitchers are all currently better than the Yankees' 2. You don't go into a 7 game series with that big of a pitching disadvantage and feel great about your odds, you just don't. 

I just looked up the numbers and I hear what you're saying...the Yankees' bats are going to bludgeon a lot of teams (especially ones with bad pitching), but the Astros' staff is pretty fvcking beastly...I didn't realize just how good that staff is until I checked.  And yeah, the Astros' starting five are a lot better than what the Yankee are throwing out there.  FWIW, the Yankees have gone 5-2 against the Astros to date, but I also get that the playoffs are a much different beast than the regular season.  Yeah, I get Yankee fans wanting to better position themselves to compete with the Astros' starting pitching.  I guess there's no one from within who will ready anytime soon?