New York Mets 2018 season thread

[NJDevs4978]

Occasionally Twitter can be gold...

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Kevin Kernan of the NYP with an excellent article about how Sandy and his band of merry men really need to stop giving other teams' no-hope rejects chances with the Mets.  

14 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Sadly I'm starting to wonder if Dom's one of these guys who's actually better with more weight like David Wells or Mo Vaughn (before he got too overboard and developed knee problems).  Svelting down seems to have only lessened his bat.

To be fair re: Sandy potentially trading deGrom, he did come back with Thor plus for R.A.Dickey so I'm not AS worried about a potential return as I am not wanting to do one in the first place.  Trading him cause the organization's too damn incompetent to find it's own prospects doesn't work for me, especially when you have all these other long-term vets hopelessly on the books next couple years.  You can't truly rebuild with Bruce, Ces, etc hanging around.

As far as a rebuild goes, assuming ANYONE can get through to the Wilpons, you tell them to get rid of that con man posing as a GM, get someone who actually gives a damn about doing the hard work that needs to be done, and let that guy make some decisions that will hurt initially, especially from a cost standpoint.  Yeah, Sandy fvcked the Mets with the Cespedes contract...two con men who have plenty in common, sadly enough.  But maybe you find a way to convince the Wilpons to eat the final year of Bruce's deal.  And Vargas.  The current veteran mix is toxic...like I said earlier, this is the playoff-drought Rangers all over again.  A bunch of older guys cashing paychecks with zero comraderie or investment in the results.  Get rid of as many of them as you can.  Blow them out.  Yes, the cost of dumping them will hurt, but the cost of just letting them stick around is greater...pretty soon no one will be going to the ballpark.  Both the Wilpons and Sandy treat the Met fanbase with little respect and borderline contempt, but they're FAR smarter than they give them credit for.  

As far as Omar Part II goes...as happy as I'd be to see Sandy gone, I feel like Omar already got his shot here, and shouldn't get another one as the Met GM.  Did he learn anything from his last go-around?  Possibly.  But I remember all of the befuddled press conferences, and more and more awful moves as his tenure went on.  I like Omar in his current role, but I really want someone completely new as the next GM.  

And just fire Callaway already.  I know he's got three years, but goddamn.  EVERYONE can see how far in over his head he really is.  It was a bold move in that he wasn't some retread, and sometimes you take your shot with a guy like that and hope he blossoms, so I can't kill the initial move...though I wonder what he said that dazzled Sandy and the Wilpons so much.  

As as much as I thought TC was a dope, his calling the ump a c*cksucker after Noah was ejected for throwing behind Utley is priceless.  Video is out there, in case you haven't seen it.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Hah I just found out about that video from your post though I saw a synopsis of a Joe and Evan audio clip referencing the TC audio and didn't know what it was referring to.  Yeah hilarious, one thing I could never accuse Terry of is not caring.  His 2016 mid-August rant on the team after an embarassing sweep by the D'Backs was another memorable one that actually happened shortly before the team turned around.

['7']

On 6/16/2018 at 1:38 PM, NJDevs4978 said:

Hah I just found out about that video from your post though I saw a synopsis of a Joe and Evan audio clip referencing the TC audio and didn't know what it was referring to.  Yeah hilarious, one thing I could never accuse Terry of is not caring.  His 2016 mid-August rant on the team after an embarassing sweep by the D'Backs was another memorable one that actually happened shortly before the team turned around.

Terry truly made some baffling decisions at times. Especially with the staff and pen. His philosophy was to absolutely push them as hard as they can go and always kept them in 1 or too batters too late when the game got away. But yea he did care and the players respected him and played hard for him even though I don't think he was all that well liked. With Callaway...it's almost as if he doesn't exist. His voice in that locker room doesn't matter at all.

['7']

On 6/15/2018 at 4:17 PM, NJDevs4978 said:

Sadly I'm starting to wonder if Dom's one of these guys who's actually better with more weight like David Wells or Mo Vaughn (before he got too overboard and developed knee problems).  Svelting down seems to have only lessened his bat.

To be fair re: Sandy potentially trading deGrom, he did come back with Thor plus for R.A.Dickey so I'm not AS worried about a potential return as I am not wanting to do one in the first place.  Trading him cause the organization's too damn incompetent to find it's own prospects doesn't work for me, especially when you have all these other long-term vets hopelessly on the books next couple years.  You can't truly rebuild with Bruce, Ces, etc hanging around.

One thing that annoys me about Dom Smith is that he's shaping up to be nothing more than a perpetual tease player. At times at the plate he demonstrates a great eye, great swing, smoothly and effortlessly makes contact on difficult pitches and drives the ball for hits. And it will look so good you'd think this guy is destined for good things. Then he'd follow it up with 0-12 with 6 K's and the rest tappers to 2nd. He is an absolute tease and to me looks like the typical maddening AAAA players. He's the type of guy who will get a million chances and wash out of our organization at 27-28 still the exact player he is now. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

15 hours ago, '7' said:

Terry truly made some baffling decisions at times. Especially with the staff and pen. His philosophy was to absolutely push them as hard as they can go and always kept them in 1 or too batters too late when the game got away. But yea he did care and the players respected him and played hard for him even though I don't think he was all that well liked. With Callaway...it's almost as if he doesn't exist. His voice in that locker room doesn't matter at all.

In a lot of ways TC was terrible at managing, no question...and he never could seem to get a grip on how to handle a pitching staff, ever.  But I definitely agree that the guy gave a damn, and though I don't think he was very bright, I think he always tried his best.  I also think the majority of his players had some level of respect for him during his Met tenure...but in some ways he was as full of it as Callaway was, as he'd rarely hold anyone accountable (but of course this an organizational issue, has been for years and years)

Unfortunately for Callaway, you have one big-time rotten apple in Cespedes, who I think could kill just about ANY manager, and especially one a completely inexperienced and overwhelmed one like Callaway.  There's nothing worse than a room chock full of complacent mostly-haven't-won-jack veterans.  I'm not going to pretend that Callaway would've found success under any circumstances, but yeah, I think with the toxic group of awful skillset vets that Sandy assembled, that a guy like Callaway was going to have no chance...that lockerroom thinks their manager is a joke.  And Mickey didn't do himself any favors...you lose a group pretty quickly when you half-ass attempt to hold people accountable, and then don'f follow up at all. 

[NJDevs4978]

Unfortunately thanks to our crappy bullpen and offense deGrom will be lucky to get half of Doc's 24 wins this year.  But at least he finally got another one tonight.

['7']

Really starting to like Nimmo and all he does. Tremendous hustle. Great sparkplug. And he's developed some legitimate power. Now I don't know if this year is going to be an anomalous 25-30 HR season with him settling into being a 10-15hr guy afterwards but I sure hope it's the former. And he finds ways to get on base. Even in his two previous stints with us the past two years. Wasn't quite cups of coffee but weren't quite long stretches either...one thing he always did back then too was get on base. So far he's at .410 which would put him 5th in all of baseball (not sure if he qualifies yet with at bats but...he should)

['7']

Not exactly sure what to do with deGrom, but I'm leaning towards keeping him. He's just such a special incredible talent and at the absolute peak of his game now. Shame we couldn't do more for him offensively and bullpen wise but the lack of wins doesn't diminish his pitching one iota. 

If they decide on trading him I want to demand the absolute biggest and most obnoxious package that I can. I may even consider dealing him to the Yankees. I mean he could be a final peace of the puzzle there but we've seen the Yankees win their titles before. With plenty of ex Mets on those teams. But the conversation starts with Gleyber Torres. If he's not in the package there's no deal.

I'm thinking though you know it's easier to compete when you have guys like deGrom and Thor and (cross your fingers he's turned a corner) Matz at the top of your rotation. You don't need great hitting to win. You just need average or even slightly below average offense to win when you've got these arms going. The only reason we haven't of late is because we ended up having great pitching combined with quite literally the historic worst offensive spell in maybe 100 years. Most times that won't happen. We really should've come out of this stretch at worst .500

Still there is that though that you can turn around and deal deGrom and get a Torres equivalent from another team PLUS a good young starter, perhaps not one that would reach a deGrom ceiling but still good, and a good relief prospects that turns into a good setup now. That would set us up nicely as well. 

I'm still leaning towards keeping him though. He's 29 and doesn't have the miles on his arm that other starters would at this age. It's not unreasonable to expect 5 outstanding seasons from him coming up.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 hours ago, '7' said:

Really starting to like Nimmo and all he does. Tremendous hustle. Great sparkplug. And he's developed some legitimate power. Now I don't know if this year is going to be an anomalous 25-30 HR season with him settling into being a 10-15hr guy afterwards but I sure hope it's the former. And he finds ways to get on base. Even in his two previous stints with us the past two years. Wasn't quite cups of coffee but weren't quite long stretches either...one thing he always did back then too was get on base. So far he's at .410 which would put him 5th in all of baseball (not sure if he qualifies yet with at bats but...he should)

re:  Nimmo, I hope the idiot masquerading as a GM is starting to see that guys who actually hit for a solid average AND get on base can bring more to the table that than the gabble of low BA-high K one-dimensional power bats that Sandy insists on parading through here.  So maybe he's only a 10-15 HR guy from here on out...I'll live with that.  Keep in mind that the OB% is probably a little bloated...he's been hit by 10 pitches this season.  And his walk rate is actually a little DOWN this season...last year he walked in 15.3% of his plate appearances, and this season it's 12.4%. 

What's interesting is that he's now played in 161 MLB games...basically a full season's worth.  Look at his numbers, and if he can approximate this over a full season from here on out, the Mets have found themselves a solid leadoff hitter:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nimmobr01.shtml

7 hours ago, '7' said:

Not exactly sure what to do with deGrom, but I'm leaning towards keeping him. He's just such a special incredible talent and at the absolute peak of his game now. Shame we couldn't do more for him offensively and bullpen wise but the lack of wins doesn't diminish his pitching one iota. 

If they decide on trading him I want to demand the absolute biggest and most obnoxious package that I can. I may even consider dealing him to the Yankees. I mean he could be a final peace of the puzzle there but we've seen the Yankees win their titles before. With plenty of ex Mets on those teams. But the conversation starts with Gleyber Torres. If he's not in the package there's no deal.

I'm thinking though you know it's easier to compete when you have guys like deGrom and Thor and (cross your fingers he's turned a corner) Matz at the top of your rotation. You don't need great hitting to win. You just need average or even slightly below average offense to win when you've got these arms going. The only reason we haven't of late is because we ended up having great pitching combined with quite literally the historic worst offensive spell in maybe 100 years. Most times that won't happen. We really should've come out of this stretch at worst .500

Still there is that though that you can turn around and deal deGrom and get a Torres equivalent from another team PLUS a good young starter, perhaps not one that would reach a deGrom ceiling but still good, and a good relief prospects that turns into a good setup now. That would set us up nicely as well. 

I'm still leaning towards keeping him though. He's 29 and doesn't have the miles on his arm that other starters would at this age. It's not unreasonable to expect 5 outstanding seasons from him coming up.

The only way that I support trading deGrom is if it's not Sandy calling the shots.  He hasn't earned the right to make that kind of a deal...if he botches it, he'll probably lose his job within a season or two after, but some other poor GM will have to deal with the fallout.  I could see Sandy getting backed into a corner and then accepting maybe one ready-soon type, and then 2-3 low-level prospects...sure, maybe at least 2 of them are labeled damned near can't miss, but we've seen how much can happen as players ascend through the ranks.  I need guys from deGrom that can help right away, especially with the year that he's having. 

I feel bad for him and think he deserves to pitch for a real franchise, so on that front, I'm OK with him going somewhere else.  It would suck for sure though.  The real keys right now to me are Conforto and Rosario.  Conforto needs to follow Nimmo's lead and start hitting, and consistently...I'm getting sick of his Pat Burrell act (looking like a beast for some stretches, then being a complete non-factor during others).  And Rosario is a really bad bat...I know he has moments, but for his young career he's slashing .247/.272/.380 (OPS+ of 77).  This is not quite Rey Ordonez bad (Rosario hits for a little more power), but it's pretty bad for an everyday player, and made even more glaring by the many low-BA bats currently in the lineup.  He just simply needs to start getting better at the plate.  I don't think Smith has a real future here anymore...just don't think the brass has any faith in him.

Guys like Frazier and Bruce are what they are...I don't expect much help from them.  Cespedes doesn't want to play. 

[NJDevs4978]

The hilarious thing about Nimmo is how the Mets valued him enough not to deal him for Harrison or McCutchen (good on Sandy) but that came after they did their damndest to block him playing by re-signing Bruce with Ces and Conforto already in the fold.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

13 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

The hilarious thing about Nimmo is how the Mets valued him enough not to deal him for Harrison or McCutchen (good on Sandy) but that came after they did their damndest to block him playing by re-signing Bruce with Ces and Conforto already in the fold.

Funny you should say that...I was just thinking "Man, I guess Sandy should get a little credit for refusing to deal him"...and then like you said, he basically blocked him from getting meaningful ABs anyway. 

I think at this point, as long as they're healthy, you gotta keep Conforto and Nimmo out there (with the hope that Conforto finally gets hot for an extended period) and just deal with whatever downturns either one goes through...though it's not like Mets have much choice anyway, as long as Cespedes can't be bothered to play.  And who knows what's going on with Bruce's keister. 

['7']

Vargas career is over. Just cut him outright

I know the ballpark and the Rockies can hit but he can't get anybody out. It's batting practice. He's awful. He was don't 2nd half of last year

['7']

You're just never going to get back into the race and reel off chunks of W's when you Vargas in the rotation

He is outright NON COMPETITIVE

['7']

Well they did fight back a bit to make it a respectable 10-8. Still too many big AB fails by Conforto and Frazier to have a shot at an improbably comeback. Rosario also left his brain in the hotel room today. Just terrible. This was a game we could've won like 8-7 if a few things went our way, but Vargas and Robles tried their best to put it out of reach early and they did just that.

I hate the Rockies and games in Coors. Tomorrow they go with Bettis who is the reverse deGrom. 5-1 but pitching like absolute sh!t. We need to knock him around

[NJDevs4978]

And not that it really matters at this point but AJ Ramos's Met career is over with a torn labrum requiring season-ending surgery

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 hours ago, '7' said:

Well they did fight back a bit to make it a respectable 10-8. Still too many big AB fails by Conforto and Frazier to have a shot at an improbably comeback. Rosario also left his brain in the hotel room today. Just terrible. This was a game we could've won like 8-7 if a few things went our way, but Vargas and Robles tried their best to put it out of reach early and they did just that.

I hate the Rockies and games in Coors. Tomorrow they go with Bettis who is the reverse deGrom. 5-1 but pitching like absolute sh!t. We need to knock him around

I hate Vargas as much as anyone (such a Sandy-type move if there ever was one...god I can't stand that fvcker), but as long as Syndergaard is out of the rotation, who else is there?  Thanks to Mets' awesome organizational depth, they have nothings like Chris Flexen to call on.  Vargas had actually been pretty good in four out of his last five starts (though he doesn't go deep, mostly because I think the Mets smartly don't want hitters getting a third look at him), but hopefully the Mets for once won't be uber-predictable and keep starting him just because Sandy decided to throw more of the Wilpons' money away by doing zero homework.  I think if anything, Vargas' turn could've been skipped last night...a guy like him doesn't stand a chance in Colorado. 

And of course Robles gets his zillionth opportunity to suck...which he promptly does. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 11:34 PM, NJDevs4978 said:

Unfortunately thanks to our crappy bullpen and offense deGrom will be lucky to get half of Doc's 24 wins this year.  But at least he finally got another one tonight.

BTW how times have changed:

Jacob's IP after 15 starts in 2018:  95.1  (about 6.1 IP per start)

Gooden's IP after 15 starts in 1985:  119.1  (barely a tick under 8 IP per start)

Doc pitched 276 IP in 35 starts that year.  Jake will probably be lucky to come within 50 IP of that. 

['7']

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

BTW how times have changed:

Jacob's IP after 15 starts in 2018:  95.1  (about 6.1 IP per start)

Gooden's IP after 15 starts in 1985:  119.1  (barely a tick under 8 IP per start)

Doc pitched 276 IP in 35 starts that year.  Jake will probably be lucky to come within 50 IP of that. 

And if we keep him and decide to go forward trying to win as a rotation mainstay, I wouldn't want him anywhere near those numbers. I'd be super safe and shut him down late August. Fake some kind of arm fatigue and save the bullets for 2019. Would like to keep him under 200 innings this year

Syndergaard I would seriously consider trading. He has an ego and an attitude of invincibility. He's a stubborn thrower rather than pitcher. And he's come up with some annoying injuries of late. It's like he throws too hard for his own good and his body is trying to tell him to ease up a bit or there will be consequences.

But since the beginning of last season to June 2018 he's only started 18 games for us and thrown only 94 innings. That's unacceptable. We just can't rely on him it seems. He hasn't quite yet earned that reputation of injury plagued but if he comes back from this finger ligament strain and ends up on the DL once more you're going to see a lot of grumbling about him.

Edited June 20, 2018 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, '7' said:

And if we keep him and decide to go forward trying to win as a rotation mainstay, I wouldn't want him anywhere near those numbers. I'd be super safe and shut him down late August. Fake some kind of arm fatigue and save the bullets for 2019. Would like to keep him under 200 innings this year

I definitely don't need him to go 276 IP (and I was more just pointing out how much things have changed), but I don't believe in shutting guys down if they're perfectly healthy because their teams are out of it.  All the babying hasn't prevented injuries one bit.  As long as Jake is feeling good, let him pitch.   

[NJDevs4978]

9 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I definitely don't need him to go 276 IP (and I was more just pointing out how much things have changed), but I don't believe in shutting guys down if they're perfectly healthy because their teams are out of it.  All the babying hasn't prevented injuries one bit.  As long as Jake is feeling good, let him pitch.   

That plus you need Jake to get used to pitching 200 innings just in case we ever have a season where we go into October with meaningful games again.

['7']

Mets are just a sick joke. 4-1 and should be just steamrolling this pitcher. Nope 2 base errors on easy throws by Frazier. Passed balls. And suddenly it's 4-4. Total garbage. 

['7']

Gsellman in the 5th. No no NO. How is Callaway this stupid. He's getting fired. Maybe next year. Maybe early the year after. I mean we can all tell this wont work. Just fire this dolt now please

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

5 hours ago, '7' said:

Gsellman in the 5th. No no NO. How is Callaway this stupid. He's getting fired. Maybe next year. Maybe early the year after. I mean we can all tell this wont work. Just fire this dolt now please

I agree that Callaway isn't going to be here long-term, but was Gsellman really THAT bad of a move?  The BP doesn't have a whole lot of trustworthy arms at this point, and I'm guessing Callaway was hoping for two shutdown innings from one of the few guys who's actually shown some dependability.  It just didn't work out.  

The top of the 6th summed up the Mets perfectly...you just KNEW that they weren't going to score...especially once Plaw came up to the plate.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Thank you Sandy...thanks to a level of incompetence that I didn't think even you could hit, I'm actually enjoying my summer of wondering what the Devils will do before next season, and simply enjoying exercising, spending quality time with my daughter (doing everything except watching the joke of a product that you call a baseball team), and loving the outdoors.  You've done something that only the Torborg Mets could do...you've made me completely not give a damn about the Mets, and that ain't no easy feat...I was all-in when you were punting away seasons and seemingly happy with a glacial rebuild, mostly done with the prior regime's assets.  I was plenty willing to put in lots of time checking out the kids at all levels of the farm, to get excited about who might be contributing to the big club two, three, even four years down the line.

But these Mets are not worth my time, energy, nor emotion.  You can mail it in on the Wilpons' watch all you want (sadly they're too oblivious to know any better), but not on mine.  As much as I can cross my fingers that one day you'll feel just guilty enough about robbing and conning our dopey ownership out of millions of dollars to do the right thing and step down, I know you won't ever do it.  Sad in that there's millions of Met fans who know that there's never any guarantees, but at the very least, even if the results aren't pretty, we at least want to know that our front office is TRYING to put together a competitive product.  You obviously have no interest in such an idea, and we all know it.  So please, for the love of all things pure, for the love of all things baseball...just quit Sandy...wait, you did that a while ago, only now for some reason, you want to take a franchise down with you.  So just LEAVE.  As in officially leave.  Get the fvck out.  Forever.  Never come back.  Take you unearned millions and disappear.  PLEASE.