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NJDevs4978

New York Mets 2018 season thread

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6 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Sounds very Met-like. 

BTW is it me or does everything that comes out of Jeffy's mouth make you wanna punch him right in the face?  God I can't stomach that guy...

https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/robinson-cano-edwin-diaz-trade-1.24213879

Stop pretending to be a baseball man Jeffy.  You'll never be one. 

Nelson Doubleday's words continue to ring true. And they will haunt us for some time

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Not really sure what I think of this Phillies trade but they do get the edge. They got offense of one sort while giving up offense of another. Juan Nicasio was a disaster last year but James Pazos was quite solid. Thing is he doesn't have any sort of career body of work. He'll be 28 in May and has only pitched 112 innings of major league relief ball. Phillies better hope they don't get 2014 and 2015 Jean Segura

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So supposedly the ask from the Marlins for Realmuto was Rosario, Conforto plus, which the Mets balked at.  The Mets are thinking more like Nimmo, plus.

The Mets could go full deathblow here and trade Rosario for Realmuto and then go and sign Mochado. 

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Just trading Nimmo for two years of a catcher would be bad enough, granted the best catcher in baseball but still, winning teams need players like Nimmo and you still have him under control for like 4-5 years. Plus who is left in the outfield once you trade Nimmo or Conforto? Their organizational depth sucks and they won’t have anything left to trade for an OF’er or any budget to buy one.

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21 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Just trading Nimmo for two years of a catcher would be bad enough, granted the best catcher in baseball but still, winning teams need players like Nimmo and you still have him under control for like 4-5 years. Plus who is left in the outfield once you trade Nimmo or Conforto? Their organizational depth sucks and they won’t have anything left to trade for an OF’er or any budget to buy one.

This is really the main issue... the organizational depth really isn't there...but on the flip side, I'm going to scream if the Mets trot out a twosome of TDA and Plaw yet AGAIN. 

If someone really wants Realmoto, I've gotta think there's a team that much more easily make it happen than the Mets.

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

So supposedly the ask from the Marlins for Realmuto was Rosario, Conforto plus, which the Mets balked at.  The Mets are thinking more like Nimmo, plus.

The Mets could go full deathblow here and trade Rosario for Realmuto and then go and sign Machado. 

You KNOW the bolded is never going to happen...no way.  Wilpons are never ponying up that kind of deal.  I'd say there's a slight chance that Machado could fall into their laps (the way Beltran did when Omar was the GM), but contracts like that are always inherently dangerous (I actually don't mind not being in the running for him)...especially since the Mets will essentially cap themselves out for many years the second they sign anyone to a top-cost contract.  This is a team that still counts Wright's full salary towards their payroll, even though they only pay a part of it (due to insurance). 

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No one really knows what the Wilpons are willing to spend.  A good indication though that they're willing to spend more than people think is the fact that BVW took the job at all, which, as I said before, is not something he really needed given how successful he was as an agent.  He did it to prove he has the chops to be a GM, which he won't be able to do if he had his hands tied by ownership.

Still what might have blown up any plans to go after Machado is what the Nats gave Corbin.  That obviously means that Degrom got a lot more expensive than the Mets were anticipating.  I suppose the Mets could just let him play out while they still control his rights and let him jump ship in two years when he's 32/33.  (I'm not that familiar with how arbitration in baseball works though, i.e. could he conceivably get a contract of $25 million plus, or is it always at a significant discount?).

BVW was obviously puffing when he told Francesa that the Mets have the best roster in the NL East.  But I think what he believes and what he was really trying to get across was that there is enough of a foundation in place that obtainable pieces could make the team a legitimate contender.  Solving the team's problem at catcher while upgrading at shortstop is something that's within the realm of possibility, and I think something ownership must have told him is not necessarily out of the question money-wise.

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Some guys relish the challenge of being able to put together a good team without having tons to spend...I think this is where the Mets lost Sandy...there was one offseason in particular where apparently Sandy had some kind of gameplan that would've entailed moderate payroll additions, and was apparently shot down...he woke up just long enough to get caught up in the Mets 2015 WS run (though he got extremely lucky that it was his third choice, Cespedes, that wound up coming to the Mets...his first choice that year was Carlos Gomez), but in general basically just mailed it in...especially last offseason. 

BVW seems like that youthful, almost naïve type who thinks he call pull off anything...he's probably doing some victory laps over the Cano deal, but the fact is you can get GMs to deal with you if it's a bad move on your end...and that deal definitely favors the Mariners coming out of the gate. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Some guys relish the challenge of being able to put together a good team without having tons to spend...I think this is where the Mets lost Sandy...there was one offseason in particular where apparently Sandy had some kind of gameplan that would've entailed moderate payroll additions, and was apparently shot down...he woke up just long enough to get caught up in the Mets 2015 WS run (though he got extremely lucky that it was his third choice, Cespedes, that wound up coming to the Mets...his first choice that year was Carlos Gomez), but in general basically just mailed it in...especially last offseason. 

BVW seems like that youthful, almost naïve type who thinks he call pull off anything...he's probably doing some victory laps over the Cano deal, but the fact is you can get GMs to deal with you if it's a bad move on your end...and that deal definitely favors the Mariners coming out of the gate. 

I think the psychology is similar to Theo Epstein when he took the Cubs job even if the circumstances are different.  The Cubs were sh!t, but there was a lot of young talent to work with, the idea of sucking for at least one more year while the team got a prime draft pick and ownership that was willing to spend when the time was right.  In other words, Epstein knew he was going into a situation where he knew he could succeed, unlike a team where the Mariners are now, or where the Marlins always seem to be.  I think it's the same with BVW.  If he were either really arrogant or naive, he would have taken a job with the Marlins or a team like that where he could show the world how awesome he is by taking them to promised land with nothing.

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We'll see if the Wilpons are truly willing to spend...that seems to be the cornerstone of your theories, that BVW never takes this job without feeling strongly that the Wilpons will indeed put some money into team...to that, who is BVW to be picky, really?  He obviously really REALLY wanted to be a GM...like you've pointed out, he could've kept the agent gig going very easily and definitley didn't NEED to be a MLB GM , but something about being in a MLB front office clearly sang to him.  But with his background (or lack thereof with respect to his current job), you can make the argument that the Wilpons were the only ones dumb or clueless enough to hire a guy like BVW.  You say BVW took the job because he believes the Wilpons are going to stop Wilponing...I say it's because he suddenly decided that the idea of being a major league GM appealed to him big time, but only one team was willing to take that chance. 

I'll give you that the Wilpons didn't always get credit for having spent in the past (mostly because they wouldn't spend like the Yankees, but it's not like a whole lot of teams did...of course, the Yanks have more big spender company now, and have even dialed back their spending a bit).  I'll also give you that for some reason known only to BVW, he seems to genuinely like working with the Wilpons.  But I need to see a real change before I believe that they're truly willing to spend bigger again.  Mets dumped bad money to take on bad money.  Not like they went out and simply targeted a costly FA that they knew could help them. 

And I get the impression that Jeffy the Wannabe Baseball Man is now as meddlesome as ever (probably part of the reason the Mets hired BVW...the other candidates probably made it clear that they wanted to be left alone to do their job in relative peace)...part of me wonders when BVW will start to tire of Jeffy's constant and unnecessary input. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

We'll see if the Wilpons are truly willing to spend...that seems to be the cornerstone of your theories, that BVW never takes this job without feeling strongly that the Wilpons will indeed put some money into team...to that, who is BVW to be picky, really?  He obviously really REALLY wanted to be a GM...like you've pointed out, he could've kept the agent gig going very easily and definitley didn't NEED to be a MLB GM , but something about being in a MLB front office clearly sang to him.  But with his background (or lack thereof with respect to his current job), you can make the argument that the Wilpons were the only ones dumb or clueless enough to hire a guy like BVW.  You say BVW took the job because he believes the Wilpons are going to stop Wilponing...I say it's because he suddenly decided that the idea of being a major league GM appealed to him big time, but only one team was willing to take that chance. 

I'll give you that the Wilpons didn't always get credit for having spent in the past (mostly because they wouldn't spend like the Yankees, but it's not like a whole lot of teams did...of course, the Yanks have more big spender company now, and have even dialed back their spending a bit).  I'll also give you that for some reason known only to BVW, he seems to genuinely like working with the Wilpons.  But I need to see a real change before I believe that they're truly willing to spend bigger again.  Mets dumped bad money to take on bad money.  Not like they went out and simply targeted a costly FA that they knew could help them. 

And I get the impression that Jeffy the Wannabe Baseball Man is now as meddlesome as ever (probably part of the reason the Mets hired BVW...the other candidates probably made it clear that they wanted to be left alone to do their job in relative peace)...part of me wonders when BVW will start to tire of Jeffy's constant and unnecessary input. 

I"m not a Mets fan, so you're correct that I'm not as well versed in the Wilpons' usual ways of doing things.  But if BVW just wanted to be a GM somewhere, there are other places he could have gone where he wouldn't have the agita of dealing with all of the baggage that goes along with leading the Mets if he just thought being an MLB GM is a cool job.  If there's one thing we know about him, he isn't stupid.

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Just now, Daniel said:

I"m not a Mets fan, so you're correct that I'm not as well versed in the Wilpons' usual ways of doing things.  But if BVW just wanted to be a GM somewhere, there are other places he could have gone where he wouldn't have the agita of dealing with all of the baggage that goes along with leading the Mets if he just thought being an MLB GM is a cool job.  If there's one thing we know about him, he isn't stupid.

The bolded is what we don't know.  His background and ability to do this job with no experience has been questioned in MANY circles, with good reason.  He may have been able to crack another team's front office in a much lower role elsewhere, but get a GM gig right away?  I think that was only happening with the Mets. 

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Yep, I seriously doubt a lot of other organizations would have even given BVW an interview, he couldn’t exactly pick and choose jobs if he wanted to be a GM right off.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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4 hours ago, Daniel said:

No one really knows what the Wilpons are willing to spend.  A good indication though that they're willing to spend more than people think is the fact that BVW took the job at all, which, as I said before, is not something he really needed given how successful he was as an agent.  He did it to prove he has the chops to be a GM, which he won't be able to do if he had his hands tied by ownership.

Still what might have blown up any plans to go after Machado is what the Nats gave Corbin.  That obviously means that Degrom got a lot more expensive than the Mets were anticipating.  I suppose the Mets could just let him play out while they still control his rights and let him jump ship in two years when he's 32/33.  (I'm not that familiar with how arbitration in baseball works though, i.e. could he conceivably get a contract of $25 million plus, or is it always at a significant discount?).

BVW was obviously puffing when he told Francesa that the Mets have the best roster in the NL East.  But I think what he believes and what he was really trying to get across was that there is enough of a foundation in place that obtainable pieces could make the team a legitimate contender.  Solving the team's problem at catcher while upgrading at shortstop is something that's within the realm of possibility, and I think something ownership must have told him is not necessarily out of the question money-wise.

The Wilpons can't be trusted though. To take the job I'm sure BVW did receive certain guarantees from the Wilpons regarding payroll flexibility (and autonomy) because there is no way he would've just walked into a situation where he was both hamstrung and had Jeff hovering over him micromanaging. However as we've seen before the Wilpons will go back on their word, "revise" things, and put the clamps down regarding spending. Before he knows it BVW will be living in the nightmare that he thought he protected himself against. The Cano move should

The Cano/Diaz move cannot be the beginning and end of the Mets offseason though. This was a step towards winning now but you can't do things halfway or 1/4 of the way. The Mets need to get that 2nd bullpen piece to get the game to Diaz safely

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The fact that Omar is around makes me feel a bit better about the depletion of the farm system, because if there is one thing he can do it's uncover talent. Sandy mostly rolled with Omars guys to the 2015 World Series. It  makes me feel a little bit better regarding BVW's inexperience that Omar is there to help him navigate the waters a bit

Edited by '7'
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Did anyone bother to listen to the HOUR AND FORTY minute Francesa interview with Brodie/Jeff/Callaway (I think)?  I don't think I can listen to Francesa or Jeff talk for the better part of an hour forty minutes.

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1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Did anyone bother to listen to the HOUR AND FORTY minute Francesa interview with Brodie/Jeff/Callaway (I think)?  I don't think I can listen to Francesa or Jeff talk for the better part of an hour forty minutes.

Has, how much of it did you catch?  I listened to about 30 mins of it.  From that sample, here's what I got:

Jeffy is clearly more involved (read:  meddlesome) than ever...and part of the reason why is kinda ironic.  I think he knows that the fanbase doesn't like him, and I think he wants to prove to everyone that he's not some unqualified buffoon who happens to have a daddy that owns the New York Mets...that he actually has something to offer.  So instead of doing what we'd all like him to (fade into the background and stop getting so involved), he's going to double down and do the exact opposite.  It's a scary proposition for sure.  And I still think it's a huge reason why BVW is now the GM...he's the only guy who was willing (out of sheer necessity, if he wanted to jump right into a GM's spot) to put up with Jeffy constantly being involved.  But if the Mets are able to build something, you can bet that Jeffy will be taking a LOT of credit. 

As for BVW himself, he talks a good game, but I smell a lot of salesman in him.  He definitely sounds very impressed with himself for having made that deal for Cano.  He does bring genuine enthusiasm to his job, for what that's worth.

I click Francesa off after about 5 mins most days.  He's absolutely terrible now...he's truly a befuddled old man who can barely get sentences out...that's been the case for a while now, but it's getting worse and worse.  He had no business getting back on the air...how anyone doesn't find him to be a complete joke I have no idea.

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I hadn't yet...I was maybe thinking of listening on a podcast tomorrow if there was anything worthwhile and not a total waste of time.  I actually saw something about today being a ratings war between Francesa and Kay cause it was the last day of fall books so Kay went six hours (!), two more than normal while Francesa had that hour long interview with the Met troika that ran forty minutes long, he kept them there :lol:  I'm not the world's biggest Kay fan either but I more or less listen to him on and off out of spite for Francesa - and because let's face it an ensemble cast is more interesting than a solo act with limited personality.

Sadly I could see that being the case re: Jeff, he's got a little Jerry Jones in him - not the shrewd businessman part though, where because he's getting called out he decides to do even more.

 

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Jeff is just a jerk. Not everybody born into wealth is one but he is. He's insecure, ill tempered, not very intelligent, entitled, and has a huge ego. And he has no tact. Yes sometimes ownerships input is needed, but he has no clue when to step back and let the baseball people do their job, nor has he ever learned from the disastrous consequence from his meddling or been able to connect the dots that lead back to him

And unless he dies or is removed from the Mets by Major League Baseball we have absolutely no way of reigning him in. If somebody were to succeed with the Mets it has to be by managing Jeff Wilpon accordingly. 

Edited by '7'

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Pretty accurate '7', re:  Jeffy.  In the end, I think what it comes down to is that he's simply not a good guy...and couple that with also being a rotten baseball man, and I just don't see how he ever wins over the fanbase he's become so determined to impress.  If he truly backed the fvck off, THAT'S what would truly have us believing that there may be hope for Jeffy.

The funny thing is I can see BVW being just smart and crafty enough to make Jeffy feel like he's much more in the loop than he really is...if he's unable to though, I could see him leaving in a few years due to "philosophical differences".  

 

Listened to the WFAN this morning, to hear if they had anything to say about yesterday's interview...sure enough, they did.  I forget who specifically said it, but someone said that everytime Jeffy felt the need to chime in, it was a complete buzzkill...that BVW's enthusiasm would start to build something in the room, and then Jeffy would say just enough (in his prematurely old-man humorless kind of voice) to deflate everything, heh heh. 

Jeffy, we know you're heavily involved behind the scenes...we don't have to like that, but fine.  Doesn't mean we EVER want to hear from you. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Pretty accurate '7', re:  Jeffy.  In the end, I think what it comes down to is that he's simply not a good guy...and couple that with also being a rotten baseball man, and I just don't see how he ever wins over the fanbase he's become so determined to impress.  If he truly backed the fvck off, THAT'S what would truly have us believing that there may be hope for Jeffy.

The funny thing is I can see BVW being just smart and crafty enough to make Jeffy feel like he's much more in the loop than he really is...if he's unable to though, I could see him leaving in a few years due to "philosophical differences".  

 

Listened to the WFAN this morning, to hear if they had anything to say about yesterday's interview...sure enough, they did.  I forget who specifically said it, but someone said that everytime Jeffy felt the need to chime in, it was a complete buzzkill...that BVW's enthusiasm would start to build something in the room, and then Jeffy would say just enough (in his prematurely old-man humorless kind of voice) to deflate everything, heh heh. 

Jeffy, we know you're heavily involved behind the scenes...we don't have to like that, but fine.  Doesn't mean we EVER want to hear from you. 

What's scary is that if somehow BVW ends up having success and there is a power struggle going on concurrently, Jeff is so inept and stubborn that he will sacrifice the Mets success in order to be "right" and get rid of the GM. He is that level of scumbag to do it. 

Shame on MLB for continuing to allow this though. If they really wanted to launch a comprehensive investigation of Jeff Wilpons conduct since he started to wield major influence here, there will be enough evidence to either suspend him or remove him from any sort of day to day operations of the Mets. Joel Sherman said other than David Samson, nobody has a worse reputation in baseball

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Are there any real smoking guns, re:  Jeffy?  You can't suspend or remove someone for not being good at putting together a good baseball team, or for being inept in other ways.  I do remember him giving some female Met employee a hard time for a having a kid of out of wedlock, but that's all I can really think of that could be considered inappropriate conduct.

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A good GM definitely needs to be able to handle a mercurial owner if he those are the cards he's dealt.  There's the story that Stick Michael had to lie to Steinbrenner to stop him from trading Bernie Williams for I think Chili Davis. 

Re Francesa, if you want to listen about local sports, he's the best option out there for the afternoon drive, although I would have rather have seen him replaced by Joe and Evan.  Kay is awful. 

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Just now, Daniel said:

A good GM definitely needs to be able to handle a mercurial owner if he those are the cards he's dealt.  There's the story that Stick Michael had to lie to Steinbrenner to stop him from trading Bernie Williams for I think Chili Davis. 

Re Francesa, if you want to listen about local sports, he's the best option out there for the afternoon drive, although I would have rather have seen him replaced by Joe and Evan.  Kay is awful. 

I don't listen to Kay, but Francesa is just terrible now, with the Butthead-like "uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhh"s, the endless "I mean"s and "you know"s and the brutal stammering/stuttering, his constantly repeating himself, and unnecessary over-explaining of very simple ideas.  He's by far the worst host on that station...there's just enough dumb Noo Yawkers out there who insist that he's great somehow...maybe he had something a lot time ago (it's been so long I can't even say that for sure), but there is just nothing left.  He has so much trouble stringing together words at times that I truly believe his mind is in decline...he's no kid, and hasn't exactly been a poster boy for good health.  He really should not have come back. 

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Hot Stove obviously warming up in the last few days...Corbin to the Nats (seems like a classic FA overpayment to me...I know he's coming off a career year, but it's a little iffy that he'll do that again), Goldschmidt to the Cards, Eovaldi staying with the Red Sox.  Curious to see what comes next for the Mets.  I'll say this much for BVW...he seems to speak Wilpon, or at least has a way of getting through to them. 

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