2018 Offseason Thread

[mfitz804]

5 hours ago, Derlique said:

Hall is more dynamic than kovy

 Kovy is a 2 time 50 goal scorer and 3 time 40 goal scorer. He never scored less than 30 goals in a full season. That’s NINE full seasons, never under 30 goals once. And in his rookie year, it was 29 in 65 games, he’d have done it that year too if he play another 10 (maybe less) games. 

Taylor is coming off a career year and just broke 30 goals and 70 points for the first time. I get that it’s a “different era” but still. 

I like Taylor a whole lot but come on now. He’s got to prove that he can do it consistently before you can call him more dynamic than Kovy. 

2 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Taylor Hall is my favorite Devils player ever. I disagree with you. 

Or I could just say it that way lol. 

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Ilya Kovalchuk was like watching hardcore gang bang pornography. 

Because you finish after less than a third of the time you should have spent?

[Lateralous]

6 hours ago, Derlique said:

Hall is more dynamic than kovy

...so was prime Elias

[Nicomo]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

 Kovy is a 2 time 50 goal scorer and 3 time 40 goal scorer. He never scored less than 30 goals in a full season. That’s NINE full seasons, never under 30 goals once. And in his rookie year, it was 29 in 65 games, he’d have done it that year too if he play another 10 (maybe less) games. 

Taylor is coming off a career year and just broke 30 goals and 70 points for the first time. I get that it’s a “different era” but still. 

I like Taylor a whole lot but come on now. He’s got to prove that he can do it consistently before you can call him more dynamic than Kovy. 

Or I could just say it that way lol. 

Hall had 80 points one year as an Oiler. 

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

Hall had 80 points one year as an Oiler. 

Missed that. Doesn’t change my opinion, however. 

[vadvlfan]

I saw a list of 10 "likely" buyouts over the summer. You know Lou will bring Paul Martin out of the dregs. Lucic (would cost a fortune to buyout & no one will trade for that contract)  Lucic may have a couple years of decent hockey but.nah., Hunwick? Moulson, Brouwer, Ennis, Spezza, Lehtera, Dubinski, Ryan Calahan?

I'm not interested in any of these.

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, vadvlfan said:

I saw a list of 10 "likely" buyouts over the summer. You know Lou will bring Paul Martin out of the dregs. Lucic (would cost a fortune to buyout & no one will trade for that contract)  Lucic may have a couple years of decent hockey but.nah., Hunwick? Moulson, Brouwer, Ennis, Spezza, Lehtera, Dubinski, Ryan Calahan?

I'm not interested in any of these.

Yeah none of the above are exciting. 

[jagknife]

1 hour ago, vadvlfan said:

I saw a list of 10 "likely" buyouts over the summer. You know Lou will bring Paul Martin out of the dregs. Lucic (would cost a fortune to buyout & no one will trade for that contract)  Lucic may have a couple years of decent hockey but.nah., Hunwick? Moulson, Brouwer, Ennis, Spezza, Lehtera, Dubinski, Ryan Calahan?

I'm not interested in any of these.

I’d take a shot on Ennis on a low cap hit deal, that’s about it

[Derlique]

15 hours ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Taylor Hall is my favorite Devils player ever. I disagree with you. 

I dunno. Hall can skate with Kovy, has the hands of Kovy, and like IK, plays with an edge when he wants to. Obviously Kovalchuk had the better shot, but Hall is the more surgical passer. I honestly think the difference is that Kovalchuk celebrated like a mad man every time he scored, whereas Hall is typically more reserved unless it's a big goal. Like, how could you not get pumped watching a Kovalchuk celly?

[Derlique]

12 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Missed that. Doesn’t change my opinion, however. 

This is a little misleading.

Hall also had a season where he had 50 points in 45 games.

Kovalchuk's prime also coincided with the first few years after the 04-05 lockout, where there were a bazillion PPs every game. Scoring in those years were absurdly high. Not to mention that Kovalchuk probably averaged 2-3 more minutes of average toi vs. Hall. Kovalchuk would play the whole two minutes of the PP and get double shifted more than Hall. 

[vadvlfan]

Also been a lot of smoke about Tyler Johnson (Bolts)  being traded. He is a C/RW, but we have enough "smallish" guys. I'd like to see what Seney might bring to the table eventually, and Joey Andy. 

[Daniel]

37 minutes ago, vadvlfan said:

Also been a lot of smoke about Tyler Johnson (Bolts)  being traded. He is a C/RW, but we have enough "smallish" guys. I'd like to see what Seney might bring to the table eventually, and Joey Andy. 

I doubt Anderson gets traded anytime soon unless it's something Shero can't pass up.  It seems they made a big push to sign him this year, so the organization probably thinks more highly of him than other teams do at this point.  Plus, I don't know if anyone has measured it, but I would guess there's a tendency for teams to hold on to players they believe they acquired as steals, which a third round pick kind of is.

[DevsMan84]

On 6/10/2018 at 9:06 AM, SterioDesign said:

hard to win when you get a 5 minutes major and that the other team scores 3 goals on you in a must win game. Not really Kovy's fault lol

Eh I think being down 3-0 in the series against a team that was running buzzsaw through the best of the Western Conference is what hurt us more than that 5-minute major.

[MadDog2020]

Eh I think being down 3-0 in the series against a team that was running buzzsaw through the best of the Western Conference is what hurt us more than that 5-minute major.

You aren’t wrong, but that stupid major took away any chance we had in game 6.


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[MadDog2020]

Cool story: https://www.pgatour.com/news/2018/06/11/nhl-referee-garrett-rank-qualifies-us-open.html


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[mfitz804]

2 hours ago, Derlique said:

This is a little misleading.

Hall also had a season where he had 50 points in 45 games.

Kovalchuk's prime also coincided with the first few years after the 04-05 lockout, where there were a bazillion PPs every game. Scoring in those years were absurdly high. Not to mention that Kovalchuk probably averaged 2-3 more minutes of average toi vs. Hall. Kovalchuk would play the whole two minutes of the PP and get double shifted more than Hall. 

That's fine. You're kind of making my point though. 

A guy who played more minutes, scored 30 goals EVERY full season, played the entire PP, and got double shifted more is a more dynamic player. It actually is kind of the definition of the word. 

I'm not taking anything away from Hall, I love that guy, I hope he plays here forever and he does what he did last year or better every year. Maybe 10 years down the line you can say he's more dynamic. Maybe you can say Hall NOW is more dynamic than Kovy will be next season. 

But to say it now is a total disregard for what happened in the past and a complete "what have you done for me lately" view. 

[mfitz804]

57 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Eh I think being down 3-0 in the series against a team that was running buzzsaw through the best of the Western Conference is what hurt us more than that 5-minute major.

My recollection is that during the ECF, pretty much everyone was saying whichever team won was going to get rolled by the Kings. And that's pretty much what happened. 

48 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

You aren’t wrong, but that stupid major took away any chance we had in game 6.

The 5 minute major definitely affected the outcome of that game. But they were barely hanging on at that point, like DevsMan said, it would have been far less relevant had they not been down 3-0 in the series. 

[MadDog2020]

The 5 minute major definitely affected the outcome of that game. But they were barely hanging on at that point, like DevsMan said, it would have been far less relevant had they not been down 3-0 in the series. 

The Devils had won two in a row (LA hadn’t lost two in a row all playoffs) and had game 7 at home. They weren’t ‘barely hanging on’- I’m not saying the Devils definitely would’ve won without the call, but I don’t think you’re being totally fair to the Devils either.


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[Chuck the Duck]

And the Devils didn't get rolled in that series.  We lost both games 1 and 2 in OT, and had glorious chances to win both in regulation that Fayne and Kovy somehow missed.  LA was the better team, but not by as much as everyone makes it out to be.

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

The Devils had won two in a row (LA hadn’t lost two in a row all playoffs) and had game 7 at home. They weren’t ‘barely hanging on’- I’m not saying the Devils definitely would’ve won without the call, but I don’t think you’re being totally fair to the Devils either.
 

Maybe "barely hanging on" wasn't fair. But they lost the first three games having scored a total of 2 goals. Two of them were overtime, so maybe I exaggerated. But scoring two goals in 3 games isn't exactly going to jumpstart your series. 

Even in game 6, ok, they sh!t the bed on the 5 minute major in epic fashion. Honestly, I can't imagine a 5 minute major going much worse than three goals against. But where were they for the rest of that game? That happened in the first period. I think I have seen a team come down from 3-0 in the 1st to win before. The Devils had plenty of time to mount a comeback but had 18 shots on goal in the whole game.

I know the NJDevs thing to do is to claim that we got robbed and that the officials screwed us, but in that series, inability to score screwed us. 

[Triumph]

The Devils got rolled in that series.  They played the Kings even in games 1 and 2 and then got steamrolled in the next 4, two of which they happened to win - Brodeur played great and the Devils got some breaks at critical times to win those games.  

The Devils didn't have any scoring chances at the point when Bernier took that penalty.  It was a bullsh!t call - should've been a 2 - but I don't think it had much influence on the series. 

[mfitz804]

21 minutes ago, Triumph said:

The Devils didn't have any scoring chances at the point when Bernier took that penalty.  It was a bullsh!t call - should've been a 2 - but I don't think it had much influence on the series. 

Exactly. If anyone thinks that game was ”over” because of that penalty, then you are conceding my point. Our offense was so anemic in the Finals that there was no chance of scoring 3 goals despite having about 45 minutes to do so. 

For me, the series was over when you scored twice in the first 180 minutes (plus whatever time there was on the OT’s, I don’t remember). A near impossible hole to climb out of. 

[mfitz804]

22 minutes ago, Triumph said:

It was a bullsh!t call - should've been a 2 

Definitely true. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

23 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Yup. Could’ve used him for the past 5-6 years. The whole “we got rid of the cap hit” argument is pointless when we didn’t actually use that saved space for anything. We’d have been better off with him.

Of course, later on down the line, sure, he’d have been doing us a favor. 

Technically, some of that saved money was used right away...Jagr and Ryder come to mind.  And of course there was the brutal Clowe contract.  I guess you can make the argument that the extra dollars made Cammalleri's deal a little easier as well.   

The only problem with these kinds of arguments is that Kovy decided he no longer wanted to be here, which kills all of the "What if?" scenarios.  It's not like the Devils had any guarantee that they ever would've gotten the 2012-13 Kovy again (who wasn't quite as good as his glamour numbers suggested that season and probably couldn't have kept playing such insane minutes, but that 2012-13 was definitely a good season...and of course, he had become damned near automatic in shootouts, which helped those Devils bank a lot of extra points).  The 2013 version of Kovy (the one that pretty much had to be dragged back from Russia) put up pretty good numbers and maybe over a full season a healthy Kovy's numbers would've come closer to 2012-13 (5 even strength goals in 37 GP seemed unsustainable for a guy of his ability...hard to think that he wouldn't have gotten it going eventually). 

As far as "What if?" scenarios go, I wonder more what would've happened if there had just never been a damned lockout.  Marty probably never gets a second year on his last contract, Ilya doesn't get the chance to play in Russia...a 2012-13 season might've been a little kinder to the Devils...though their goaltending was brutal that year. 

[mfitz804]

Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Technically, some of that saved money was used right away...Jagr and Ryder come to mind.  And of course there was the brutal Clowe contract.  I guess you can make the argument that the extra dollars made Cammalleri's deal a little easier as well.  

Well once the money was available, of course it was “used”; you have to replace the guy. But I’m sure there’s deals that would not have happened if he didn’t leave, Ryder certainly falls in that category for me despite one being LW and the other a RW. 

I don’t know how much space under the cap we had each year, but I’m pretty confident that up to now, it wouldn’t have been an issue. Now, when we have to re-sign Hall, Nico, plus Tavares’ contract (what, he didn’t sign yet? Lol), and Kovy is all of those years older, maybe it’s more of an issue. 

It’ll all depend what he does if he returns. If he goes 30G, 50A again, I’d say he’s earning that  $6m a year he’d have been making.