Triumph Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Well once the money was available, of course it was “used”; you have to replace the guy. But I’m sure there’s deals that would not have happened if he didn’t leave, Ryder certainly falls in that category for me despite one being LW and the other a RW. I don’t know how much space under the cap we had each year, but I’m pretty confident that up to now, it wouldn’t have been an issue. Now, when we have to re-sign Hall, Nico, plus Tavares’ contract (what, he didn’t sign yet? Lol), and Kovy is all of those years older, maybe it’s more of an issue. It’ll all depend what he does if he returns. If he goes 30G, 50A again, I’d say he’s earning that $6m a year he’d have been making. You're looking at the Kovalchuk contract as cap space, but there was a very real dollars element to that deal - he would've been one of the highest-paid players in the NHL over that time. I think that would've restricted other moves the Devils made, even as they weren't close to the cap past 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Well once the money was available, of course it was “used”; you have to replace the guy. But I’m sure there’s deals that would not have happened if he didn’t leave, Ryder certainly falls in that category for me despite one being LW and the other a RW. I don’t know how much space under the cap we had each year, but I’m pretty confident that up to now, it wouldn’t have been an issue. Now, when we have to re-sign Hall, Nico, plus Tavares’ contract (what, he didn’t sign yet? Lol), and Kovy is all of those years older, maybe it’s more of an issue. It’ll all depend what he does if he returns. If he goes 30G, 50A again, I’d say he’s earning that $6m a year he’d have been making. Except that you just said in your previous post that none of the saved space was used for anything. It was (I don't think either Jagr nor Ryder come here if Ilya's gone), though obviously it wasn't doled out on deals anywhere near Kovy's realm, in terms of length, cost, or player profile. Naturally it can definitely debated how WELL that money was used (we already know that the lack of talent coming up from within had Lou dipping his foot into the UFA pool more than he ever wanted to). Jagr I understood (though you never know how long he's going to be happy somewhere...he was always a bit moody), Ryder I understood too (he'd come off two good seasons), Clowe I thought was flat-out idiotic given his concussion history (that's pure GM arrogance right there, ignoring what's right in front of you), and I was never a Cammalleri guy. Of course Clowe was more brought in to replace Clarkson, and Zach moving on meant the Devils weren't tied up in long-term Parise deal, so it can be argued that it was really Kovy AND Parise not being paid that gave the Devils money to spend (not so well) elsewhere. Who knows what trajectory a "Kovy's still here" timeline the team would've been on...maybe Shero never becomes the GM., and Lou would've kept on Band-Aiding even longer. BTTF moments and paradoxes are starting to pop into my head yet again. I still think if Kovy comes back, he gets off to a pretty hot start that has some saying "Steal of the 2018 offseason" (say 6-7 goals through 10 games), then he stalls, starts looking more and more slow and tired, and by the 45-50 game mark with 10-12 goals, calls it quits for good in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Except that you just said in your previous post that none of the saved space was used for anything. Yeah, that's a misstatement. The point I was trying to make was, we still were under the cap most of the years since then, and his cap hit would not have been an issue. Yes, we would not have been able to use that money elsewhere, but like you said, we probably wouldn't have. Add to it you wouldn't have added Savard's cap hit, and maybe you'd have traded Clowe's to someone else, etc. I would also like to point out that retrospectively, I think there's a significant argument that Ryder and Cammalleri both constitute "not using the money for anything". 1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: I still think if Kovy comes back, he gets off to a pretty hot start that has some saying "Steal of the 2018 offseason" (say 6-7 goals through 10 games), then he stalls, starts looking more and more slow and tired, and by the 45-50 game mark with 10-12 goals, calls it quits for good in the NHL. That would be an amazing result. If he's gonna do that, I would like to see him do it in New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Someone alert Blake Coleman: https://www.northjersey.com/story/money/nation-now/2018/06/10/sonics-new-pickle-juice-slush-available-starting-june-11/688444002/Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 31 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Someone alert Blake Coleman: https://www.northjersey.com/story/money/nation-now/2018/06/10/sonics-new-pickle-juice-slush-available-starting-june-11/688444002/ Congrats to them for making it one step grosser. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 5 hours ago, mfitz804 said: That's fine. You're kind of making my point though. A guy who played more minutes, scored 30 goals EVERY full season, played the entire PP, and got double shifted more is a more dynamic player. It actually is kind of the definition of the word. I'm not taking anything away from Hall, I love that guy, I hope he plays here forever and he does what he did last year or better every year. Maybe 10 years down the line you can say he's more dynamic. Maybe you can say Hall NOW is more dynamic than Kovy will be next season. But to say it now is a total disregard for what happened in the past and a complete "what have you done for me lately" view. No, I'm not making your point. I'm saying it's easier to accrue goals and points when you're on the ice more frequently. Do I think Hall could play an extra 2-3 minutes of PP time and a couple of more shifts with the 4th line? Yeah, I do. (Un)Fortunately, Hynes doesn't ride his top players like DeBoer did so we'll never know. What we do know is that Kovalchuk was not a very efficient player in New Jersey in terms of ES p/60 nor PP p/60. He was obviously really really good, but he benefitted a lot from bloated toi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, Derlique said: No, I'm not making your point. I'm saying it's easier to accrue goals and points when you're on the ice more frequently. Do I think Hall could play an extra 2-3 minutes of PP time and a couple of more shifts with the 4th line? Yeah, I do. (Un)Fortunately, Hynes doesn't ride his top players like DeBoer did so we'll never know. What we do know is that Kovalchuk was not a very efficient player in New Jersey in terms of ES p/60 nor PP p/60. He was obviously really really good, but he benefitted a lot from bloated toi. Yeah, but as good as Hall is, he probably wouldn't have his point totals increase linearly with more ice time. I also don't know how close their ice times are considering the pk time that Kovy would get. Looking back, I guess we're better off that he left when he did, if only if you take into account the butterfly effect, i.e. it probably means no Taylor Hall and no Nico. If you don't take that it account though, we'd have gotten some more exciting hockey and believe it or not, he would have ended up being pretty tradable when you consider that Shea Weber managed to get traded for a better player. I only wonder though if Kovy would have held us over a barrel and retired and stuck us with a huge recapture penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Daniel said: Yeah, but as good as Hall is, he probably wouldn't have his point totals increase linearly with more ice time. I also don't know how close their ice times are considering the pk time that Kovy would get. Looking back, I guess we're better off that he left when he did, if only if you take into account the butterfly effect, i.e. it probably means no Taylor Hall and no Nico. If you don't take that it account though, we'd have gotten some more exciting hockey and believe it or not, he would have ended up being pretty tradable when you consider that Shea Weber managed to get traded for a better player. I only wonder though if Kovy would have held us over a barrel and retired and stuck us with a huge recapture penalty. I disagree with your first bit. Hall would make the 2nd PP better and his numbers would increase. For sure Kovalchuk leaving was best for the team long term. I maintain that 2013-2016 was pretty much rock bottom for me as a fan. 2013, they dominated every game and couldnt score or get a save. 13-14, they overplayed Brodeur and it cost the team a playoff spot. 14-15 and 15-16 had no talent, yet, overachieved due to Schneider. Schneider pretty much kept us in purgatory for a few years (that bastard). It wasn't until we got Hall and got some more lottery luck that things look like they're turning around. Thank god we're seemingly out of the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I think we have different understandings of the word “dynamic”. Merriam-Webster: “marked by usually continuous and productive activity or change”. That defines Kovy more than Hall, to me. At this point anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 wonder if Shero was one of those inquiring. Was rumored to be interested back in October/November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Derlique said: No, I'm not making your point. I'm saying it's easier to accrue goals and points when you're on the ice more frequently. Do I think Hall could play an extra 2-3 minutes of PP time and a couple of more shifts with the 4th line? Yeah, I do. (Un)Fortunately, Hynes doesn't ride his top players like DeBoer did so we'll never know. What we do know is that Kovalchuk was not a very efficient player in New Jersey in terms of ES p/60 nor PP p/60. He was obviously really really good, but he benefitted a lot from bloated toi. Yeah but you need to be able to play those minutes. You don't get tons of TOI if you can't handle it. You're not doing well because you play a lot, you play a lot cause you're doing well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclc79 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 It was tough to watch some of our smallish skill players get pushed around some, like TH9, Nico and Palmieri, but not through lack of effort on their part. We seem to need more size up front, especially if they have good puck skills as well. Size would help for a more effective forecheck. Resigning Maroon would be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Taylor Hall is considered small now? He’s 6’1 205 lbs. I mean if we’re comparing him to Dustin Byfuglien, sure, but he’s gotta be about average for the league on whole I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Nicomo said: Taylor Hall is considered small now? He’s 6’1 205 lbs. I mean if we’re comparing him to Dustin Byfuglien, sure, but he’s gotta be about average for the league on whole I would think. Average height, above average weight. Taylor Hall doesn't get pushed around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Oof...8 more years with that joke of a franchise. Have fun with that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Vegas signed Stefan Matteau to a one year $650k/$110K two way contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: I'm not very good at this stuff. Is the reason he has to wait until July 1 that they cannot give him the 8th year until he's a "free agent"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Oof...8 more years with that joke of a franchise. Have fun with that. Hope he likes Houston. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I'm not very good at this stuff. Is the reason he has to wait until July 1 that they cannot give him the 8th year until he's a "free agent"? No I think it’s just a league technicality. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Hope he likes Houston. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Literally the exact sentence I just texted my brothers lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Hope he likes Houston. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I've been to Houston twice in my life. Nice city though I prefer Austin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 I've been to Houston twice in my life. Nice city though I prefer Austin. Never been to Texas. Can’t imagine ever having a reason to go either lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Never been to Texas. Can’t imagine ever having a reason to go either lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Houston and Austin are somewhat un-Texas like. Houston is a bit too large and cosmopolitan while Austin is hipster-ville. Austin is more fun though if you are 21-40, but both are hot and humid as hell in the summer. I was in Houston last year for the Super Bowl, so that's why I was there. I go to Austin about 4-6 times a year for work. Dallas/FW and San Antonio are much more Texas-like. I've heard meh things about Dallas but I heard San Antonio is very nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.