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2018 Offseason Thread


LittleBallofHate

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https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-players-discuss-erik-karlsson-trade-reports/c-299468812

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There's a difference between Karlsson's situation and those faced in the past by Seguin and New Jersey Devils forward Taylor Hall, who was traded to New Jersey from the Edmonton Oilers on June 29, 2016.

"I think it's easier when you know a big trade is coming. I didn't," Hall said. "If you're Erik Karlsson, you probably know you're going to be moved and you're ready for that. For myself, I was ready to stay in Edmonton and stick it out.

"There are different scenarios, but at the same time you're going to a team and you're trying to help that team win. The surroundings don't really change that."

Hall, who was selected by the Oilers with the No. 1 pick in the 2010 draft, has 146 points (59 goals, 87 assists) in 148 games with the Devils, including an NHL career-high 93 (39 goals, 54 assists) last season.

"If Erik does get traded, my advice to him would be to just put Ottawa in your rearview," the 26-year-old said. "Maybe I thought about Edmonton a bit too much in my first year. Put Ottawa in your rearview and just focus on the new situation. … When you are traded in your prime, you just have to look ahead."

 
 

 

Edited by SterioDesign
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18 minutes ago, LittleBallofHate said:

@FriedgeHNIC  Hearing CHI/ARIZ working on deal where Coyotes take Marian Hossa’s contract. Believe Hinostroza is part of deal

 

7 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:


What a fvcking joke.

I find the whole concept of trading players with career ending injuries (? whether Hossa counts, but you know what I mean) to be a bit ridiculous. I mean, I guess I understand because if the guy came off the cap due to injury, teams would be having guys get "injured" all the time. But there has to be a better way.

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1 hour ago, LittleBallofHate said:

@FriedgeHNIC  Hearing CHI/ARIZ working on deal where Coyotes take Marian Hossa’s contract. Believe Hinostroza is part of deal

@NHLBlackhawks

OFFICIAL: The #Blackhawks have acquired Marcus Kruger, MacKenzie Entwistle, Jordan Maletta, Andrew Campbell and a 2019 fifth-round draft pick from Arizona in exchange for Marian Hossa, Vinnie Hinostroza, Jordan Oesterle and a 2019 third-round pick.

ETA:  @TheFourthPeriod 

Told the Blackhawks have been in talks with Montreal about Pacioretty and Carolina about Skinner. Chicago has approx $8.5M in cap space after today's trade. Possible these talks pick up steam now.

Edited by LittleBallofHate
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3 minutes ago, LittleBallofHate said:

@NHLBlackhawks

OFFICIAL: The #Blackhawks have acquired Marcus Kruger, MacKenzie Entwistle, Jordan Maletta, Andrew Campbell and a 2019 fifth-round draft pick from Arizona in exchange for Marian Hossa, Vinnie Hinostroza, Jordan Oesterle and a 2019 third-round pick.

Wow you have to be a tough motherfvcker to pull off a name like MacKenzie Entwistle. 

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The Coyotes are literally the NHL's garbage disposal

Move them to Houston and be done with it. That whole situation out there is fvcking embarrassing. They also seem to be the go-to team for teams like Chicago to dump their sh!t, which is irritating.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

 

I find the whole concept of trading players with career ending injuries (? whether Hossa counts, but you know what I mean) to be a bit ridiculous. I mean, I guess I understand because if the guy came off the cap due to injury, teams would be having guys get "injured" all the time. But there has to be a better way.

Being totally naïve here, what exactly do you not like about it?  The way I see it, the injured player's cap hit is a commodity on the books, just like a non-injured player's hit, a "retired" player's hit (cough, Kovalfvck), a buy-out, right?

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Below Shero snippets from this article:  https://www.nhl.com/devils/news/cap-flexibility-and-time-has-devils-gm-ray-shero-remaining-patient/c-299469536

"If we can add the right player, we'll do it. We still want to improve the team, if possible. I like where we are. I like our flexibility. I like where are younger players are and our veterans."

"This is my third year. We've never been active on July 1. Last year was the [Marcus] Johansson trade, but this is the process of building a team. Realistically, we'll have 11 forwards from our team last year once we have Wood, Coleman and Noesen sign; seven defensemen and two goaltenders. Are there avenues to improve the team? Absolutely. We have cap space flexibility and it's one of those things…We were on a few guys in the free agency market…Patrick Maroon was the last one, who we really wanted to have back. We offered him a lot more money on a one-year deal and I've known him for a few years now and I'm really, really proud of his decision and why he made it, for his son. I have a lot of respect for the decision he made. He was a good asset for us and trade for us."

"I'm happy for Johnny Moore. He got a five-year deal in Boston. He's one of my favorite guys. He did a great job here for three years. I think with Mueller, especially with the way he started and finished the year, the way he played in the World Championships, that's the natural evolution. Guys like Mueller stepped up. Certainly, the way Will Butcher played last year but also at the World Championships, [increasing] his growth, more ice-time and that's the turnover. Johnny Moore was here for three years and left it a better place. He had a huge impact on us and I'll always be grateful for what he did here, both on-and-off the ice. That's good for Johnny and a great opportunity for some of these other players like Steve Santini."

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1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Being totally naïve here, what exactly do you not like about it?  The way I see it, the injured player's cap hit is a commodity on the books, just like a non-injured player's hit, a "retired" player's hit (cough, Kovalfvck), a buy-out, right?

Because fundamentally, the idea of a guy who cannot and will not ever play hockey again counting against a team’s cap is stupid. Trading said player is even stupider. 

Cap hit is only a commodity because they say it is. I don’t have a proposal as to how they should do it, I just think the current way is ridiculous. 

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Arizona, if the players they have now, play as well as they did in the second half of last season, will be a decent team. Not outstanding, but certainly not the sh!t show they were for the first half of last year.

they won’t be Buffalo-level trash, at a minimum

i just hate that they seem to be the only team willing to bail others out 

Edited by jagknife
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4 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Because fundamentally, the idea of a guy who cannot and will not ever play hockey again counting against a team’s cap is stupid. Trading said player is even stupider. 

Cap hit is only a commodity because they say it is. I don’t have a proposal as to how they should do it, I just think the current way is ridiculous. 

did you find it stupid when we landed Mojo with a pick we got from taking on Savard's contract?

just curious. 

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

did you find it stupid when we landed Mojo with a pick we got from taking on Savard's contract?

just curious. 

I find the concept stupid. As it’s part of the rules, I do not find using it to your advantage to be stupid. 

I think you failed to recognize the difference. 

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5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I find the concept stupid. As it’s part of the rules, I do not find using it to your advantage to be stupid. 

I think you failed to recognize the difference. 

Hey i'm just trying to help you challenging your view. When I see someone say "this is stupid and not the way it should be done... but I can't tell you how it could be better" well that person has some thinking to do lol  how is something a problem if you can't imagine of the right way it should be done to compare it to?

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9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Hey i'm just trying to help you challenging your view. When I see someone say "this is stupid and not the way it should be done... but I can't tell you how it could be better" well that person has some thinking to do lol  how is something a problem if you can't imagine of the right way it should be done to compare it to?

I think you’ve mistaken me for Gary Bettman. I’m a dude in a message board, I don’t need to figure anything out. 

Also, I didn’t say it’s a problem, I said I think it’s stupid. There’s plenty of things I think are stupid that I have no explanation for. My country elected one of them. 

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13 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Because fundamentally, the idea of a guy who cannot and will not ever play hockey again counting against a team’s cap is stupid. Trading said player is even stupider. 

Cap hit is only a commodity because they say it is. I don’t have a proposal as to how they should do it, I just think the current way is ridiculous. 

True, and I don't necessarily disagree,  but I think until someone does have another proposal/solution, you have to stick with the way it is for now.  

Just to play devil's advocate, don't you think or agree that part of the work and thought involved in signing a player is taking into account that particular player's health and/or injury history, and team's should be responsible for what happens to that player in the future if they agree to pay him?  Granted many injuries occur without any prior occurrences or accidents, but that's the risk you take.  And it's not like this happens all that often - I think it's pretty rare for a player to suffer a career ending injury and leave a team high and dry holding the bag. 

It's not the best example, but if you buy a car with an aging transmission, or even a car that you don't suspect has anything wrong with it, and then after a year the transmission fails, you don't just say oh well, screw it I'll buy a different car, but I'm not paying for this one anymore.  You owe the remaining balance for however long you financed or agreed to pay the original car for. 

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16 hours ago, LittleBallofHate said:

Below Shero snippets from this article:  https://www.nhl.com/devils/news/cap-flexibility-and-time-has-devils-gm-ray-shero-remaining-patient/c-299469536

"I'm happy for Johnny Moore. He got a five-year deal in Boston. He's one of my favorite guys. He did a great job here for three years. I think with Mueller, especially with the way he started and finished the year, the way he played in the World Championships, that's the natural evolution. Guys like Mueller stepped up. Certainly, the way Will Butcher played last year but also at the World Championships, [increasing] his growth, more ice-time and that's the turnover. 

this is the big question right here on defense..these two . shero absolutely needs Mirco and Will B to step up again and play at a top 2nd pairing level or we simply (IMO)wont make the playoffs as presently constituted .. shero also has a very difficult conversation with the captain coming up.. if there is little improvement from greene hes a 3rd pairing. i dont see a defenseman coming up from this development camp who will be of big help this year or next

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2 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

True, and I don't necessarily disagree,  but I think until someone does have another proposal/solution, you have to stick with the way it is for now.  

Just to play devil's advocate, don't you think or agree that part of the work and thought involved in signing a player is taking into account that particular player's health and/or injury history, and team's should be responsible for what happens to that player in the future if they agree to pay him?  Granted many injuries occur without any prior occurrences or accidents, but that's the risk you take.  And it's not like this happens all that often - I think it's pretty rare for a player to suffer a career ending injury and leave a team high and dry holding the bag. 

It's not the best example, but if you buy a car with an aging transmission, or even a car that you don't suspect has anything wrong with it, and then after a year the transmission fails, you don't just say oh well, screw it I'll buy a different car, but I'm not paying for this one anymore.  You owe the remaining balance for however long you financed or agreed to pay the original car for. 

Also, just to further touch on the idea that trading contracts is stupid - using the example above, if you have a car with a bum transmission that you don't want to fix but are stuck paying for another year or two, but you have something else pretty valuable, let's say a rare painting or something, and your friend wants to buy it, what's to say it's wrong or stupid for you to "trade" him the debt to your car in exchange for you giving him your prized painting as well, so that you're free of your obligation and can move on to purchasing another vehicle now?  It's all relative.

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1 hour ago, EdgeControl said:

this is the big question right here on defense..these two . shero absolutely needs Mirco and Will B to step up again and play at a top 2nd pairing level or we simply (IMO)wont make the playoffs as presently constituted .. shero also has a very difficult conversation with the captain coming up.. if there is little improvement from greene hes a 3rd pairing. i dont see a defenseman coming up from this development camp who will be of big help this year or next

Severson is just as big of a question as well honestly. He can’t be watching games from the press box as a healthy scratch next season. 

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56 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

True, and I don't necessarily disagree,  but I think until someone does have another proposal/solution, you have to stick with the way it is for now.  

Just to play devil's advocate, don't you think or agree that part of the work and thought involved in signing a player is taking into account that particular player's health and/or injury history, and team's should be responsible for what happens to that player in the future if they agree to pay him?  Granted many injuries occur without any prior occurrences or accidents, but that's the risk you take.  And it's not like this happens all that often - I think it's pretty rare for a player to suffer a career ending injury and leave a team high and dry holding the bag. 

It's not the best example, but if you buy a car with an aging transmission, or even a car that you don't suspect has anything wrong with it, and then after a year the transmission fails, you don't just say oh well, screw it I'll buy a different car, but I'm not paying for this one anymore.  You owe the remaining balance for however long you financed or agreed to pay the original car for. 

I didn’t suggest they should change it without coming up with an alternative. That kind of goes without saying. Well, I thought it did, but you said it. 

Your example fails because it doesn’t have to be a car with a bad transmission. You could buy a new car and it gets totaled right as you drive out of the lot. In that case, you don’t continue to pay for it, your own nsurance does and you go get a new car. I don’t like the idea of comparing a person’s life and livelihood to a piece of property, either, but it was your example. 

Granted, most of the players who have gone LTIR are older, but it’s entirely possible that it could happen to a younger guy. Let’s say McDavid, fresh off his ginormous 8 year extension, is checked into the boards and fractures his neck in the first preseason game. He’ll never walk again, let alone play hockey.

Should his $100 million count against the cap for the next 8 years? Why? He’s on the roster only as a technicality, he’ll never play. He should just come off the cap.

The problem isn’t an injury like I described, that one is obvious. But there’s too much potential for abuse when a guy can go LTIR because his equipment makes him itchy. Saying that the team “takes the risk”, again, is only true because the rules say they do. 

Yes, it is pretty rare, but there have been a number of them. Again, I’m not saying anything has to change, I just think the idea is stupid. 

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

I didn’t suggest they should change it without coming up with an alternative. That kind of goes without saying. Well, I thought it did, but you said it. 

The problem isn’t an injury like I described, that one is obvious. But there’s too much potential for abuse when a guy can go LTIR because his equipment makes him itchy. Saying that the team “takes the risk”, again, is only true because the rules say they do. 

Yes, it is pretty rare, but there have been a number of them. Again, I’m not saying anything has to change, I just think the idea is stupid. 

I wasn't saying you were suggesting to do away with the current rules without having a replacement process, just merely reiterating, and agreeing, with you.

Your example fails because it doesn’t have to be a car with a bad transmission. You could buy a new car and it gets totaled right as you drive out of the lot. In that case, you don’t continue to pay for it, your own nsurance does and you go get a new car. I don’t like the idea of comparing a person’s life and livelihood to a piece of property, either, but it was your example.

Yikes - relax.  I wasn't at all saying that personal property was somehow equal to a person's life, not sure where you got that from.  It was simply an example, in theory, relating the situation to another real-world scenario where these concepts apply.

My example doesn't fail, it still applies, you just extrapolated from it.  In your above example, someone is still paying for the car, it's just not you anymore, it's an insurance company.  An insurance company you took out a premium with.  You're still paying for it, in the form of a monthly policy, and that premium is most likely also going to go up because of the risk you took that, perhaps through no fault of your own, didn't pan out and now someone else is on the hook for a large sum of money. 

So there you have it, maybe teams start taking out insurance policies on contracts. It's been thought of before, and I'm not sure if in the CBA they're just not allowed to right now or not, but that is a potential option/solution.

Granted, most of the players who have gone LTIR are older, but it’s entirely possible that it could happen to a younger guy. Let’s say McDavid, fresh off his ginormous 8 year extension, is checked into the boards and fractures his neck in the first preseason game. He’ll never walk again, let alone play hockey.

Should his $100 million count against the cap for the next 8 years? Why? He’s on the roster only as a technicality, he’ll never play. He should just come off the cap.

I mean, I'm not an owner or GM in charge of running a franchise so I don't have the pressure or responsibility of trying to get my team under a cap limit, so when you ask me like that, my initial answer is "I don't care" lol, but putting myself in that situation, I guess obviously I wouldn't want it to count against the cap, and maybe it shouldn't.  I don't see an issue with putting in a clause for extenuating circumstances like that, things unlikely to happen more than once in a decade, maybe even two decades.  BUT, I do think the team is responsible for paying out his contract.  Just take it off the cap and continue to pay him on the side.  Or, as discussed above, an insurance company pays him.  Whoever, it doesn't matter, but he's still owed his money that you agreed to pay him for, whether he played 1 game, or 1,000 games.

 

 

5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

 

 

 


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:lol: I hope they get Bobby Ryan's contract.

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