NJDevils1214 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Has a team ever fired a coach just to sign a new one that recently hit the market? I can't remember it ever happening where a coach newly hits the market and then another team just swaps theirs out. Usually it happens the following summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostondevil11 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: Has a team ever fired a coach just to sign a new one that recently hit the market? I can't remember it ever happening where a coach newly hits the market and then another team just swaps theirs out. Usually it happens the following summer. Claude Juilen was fired by the Bruins on Feb 7th 2017 and hired by Montreal Feb 14th 2017. That hasn't worked out great for Montreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBallofHate Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 21 hours ago, Aitchmack said: With Trotz resigning I pretty much thought the same thing. I'd be very much surprised if he ends up anywhere else. I would imagine Lou would reach out to him but if I were Trotz, I'd wait to see if JT resigns - if he leaves that team is *not good*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitchmack Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, LittleBallofHate said: I would imagine Lou would reach out to him but if I were Trotz, I'd wait to see if JT resigns - if he leaves that team is *not good*. But JT might not re-sign unless Trotz (or another coach he thinks is acceptable) is in place. Lou will need all his svengali powers for that one. That is, I guess, unless another GM decides that Trotz is too good to pass up on and fires their coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, LittleBallofHate said: I would imagine Lou would reach out to him but if I were Trotz, I'd wait to see if JT resigns - if he leaves that team is *not good*. 5 minutes ago, Aitchmack said: But JT might not re-sign unless Trotz (or another coach he thinks is acceptable) is in place. Lou will need all his svengali powers for that one. That is, I guess, unless another GM decides that Trotz is too good to pass up on and fires their coach. This is exactly the debate we had last week - which will/should come first, the HC or the franchise player? If you ask me, for reasons already stated, the star player needs to be taken care of first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said: This is exactly the debate we had last week - which will/should come first, the HC or the franchise player? If you ask me, for reasons already stated, the star player needs to be taken care of first. And if you ask me, the coaching situation needs to be addressed first. The star player will want to know who he's playing for as part of his evaluation of whether to sign. You and me are like Left Twix vs. Right Twix. Edited June 19, 2018 by mfitz804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 14 hours ago, mfitz804 said: And if you ask me, the coaching situation needs to be addressed first. The star player will want to know who he's playing for as part of his evaluation of whether to sign. You and me are like Left Twix vs. Right Twix. Yeah, clearly we are on opposite ends of this discussion lol. Would you honestly care that much about who you're playing for though, if you were a star NHL player? I know there are some guys out there who you hear about really bond with their coach and look up to them and what not, and maybe Tavares is indeed one of those guys, who knows, but I really like that's a small percentage...maybe 20%, 30% at most. I think the other 70-80% of the league could kind of really give two sh!ts about who their head coach is, at least in terms of whether or not they'll sign with a certain team. I feel like as long as they're getting the playing time they expect, the team is decent in terms of being competitive, and, of course, they're making the money they want, that they'll be happy and that's the stuff that will keep them content. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to play for an a$$hole, but unless it's a guy like Torts, who just has that reputation in general, I can't imagine a new coach coming in and immediately rubbing a bunch of his players the wrong way, so to me I feel like most guys would be indifferent to whoever the GM decides to bring in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Yeah, clearly we are on opposite ends of this discussion lol. Would you honestly care that much about who you're playing for though, if you were a star NHL player? I know there are some guys out there who you hear about really bond with their coach and look up to them and what not, and maybe Tavares is indeed one of those guys, who knows, but I really like that's a small percentage...maybe 20%, 30% at most. I think the other 70-80% of the league could kind of really give two sh!ts about who their head coach is, at least in terms of whether or not they'll sign with a certain team. I feel like as long as they're getting the playing time they expect, the team is decent in terms of being competitive, and, of course, they're making the money they want, that they'll be happy and that's the stuff that will keep them content. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to play for an a$$hole, but unless it's a guy like Torts, who just has that reputation in general, I can't imagine a new coach coming in and immediately rubbing a bunch of his players the wrong way, so to me I feel like most guys would be indifferent to whoever the GM decides to bring in. I don’t know what you are basing your percentages on, and I think you are way off. I think players, especially star players, care who their coach is. But bigger than that, they want championships, they want to know their team is headed in that direction. How do you sell a guy that when you’re a coachless team that just missed the playoffs? What kind of stability does that show? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: I don’t know what you are basing your percentages on, and I think you are way off. I think players, especially star players, care who their coach is. Not basing it on anything all lol, other than what I see/hear during any given season or year. I just don't really see or hear players particularly making a fuss over who their coach is, or claiming over the top love for him either. It's hockey-speak, or just athlete-speak in general. Player is asked by the media what he thinks of his coach, he says he loves him, the guys really buy into his system... blah blah blah. What do you think he's gonna say? But does that mean a guy is going to base his decision on whether or not to sign with a team? I doubt it. At least I wouldn't. Again, don't get me wrong, in a perfect world the team I'm interested in would have a coach already in place, someone who is well-liked and has proven track record of success, but if not, it's not really something that would turn me off and make me walk away from the table. But bigger than that, they want championships, they want to know their team is headed in that direction. How do you sell a guy that when you’re a coachless team that just missed the playoffs? What kind of stability does that show? By the other players on the team? That's really what I'd be most concerned with. The other guys that will be on the ice with me. Don't get it twisted, I'm not suggesting the Islanders are headed to the promised land anytime soon (though I do think they have some attractive pieces that would be reason for Tavares to stay... a really young and talented Barzal. Leddy, Eberle, De Haan, Boychuck, etc.), I'm simply saying that having no coach at the moment would not be something that makes me go "oh, they don't have a coach right now? fvck that, cross them off my list". Teams go through changes, it's really not all that uncommon. I don't have the statistics, but I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were something like every 5 years a team fires their coach. I think this year with the Isles not having a coach it's magnified more than usual, because in each off-season there's typically 3-4 teams without a coach, sometimes 5-6 or more...and this year, so far, the Islanders are the only ones without one. So I think you're placing too much emphasis on the vacancy than it deserves. After all, it's only temporary. It's not like they're going to go into the season without naming a coach. It takes time to find the right guy too, and they literally just fired Weight two weeks ago, so I imagine Tavares would/should be understanding of them going through the process and vetting out some candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 So basically you pulled the numbers out of your butt. I’m certain you didn’t see/hear anything from any actual players, other than stuff you heard them say in interviews which as you point out is unreliable and may not be reflective of their actual opinion. Do I think the identity of the coach makes a guy sign or not? No, obviously it’s one of the factors. The other players around him are part of it also. But JT isn’t looking to sign a contract for a chance that a team may develop into something. He’s done that already, he’s played for the Islanders 7-8 years and they failed to accomplish that. He will have many suitors, some of which were playoff teams and Cup contenders. He’ll have options. I’m not putting too much emphasis on WHO the coach will be, although that is a factor any star player will consider. But having NO coach in place says “we don’t know what the fvck we’re doing”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: So basically you pulled the numbers out of your butt. I’m certain you didn’t see/hear anything from any actual players, other than stuff you heard them say in interviews which as you point out is unreliable and may not be reflective of their actual opinion. I’m not putting too much emphasis on WHO the coach will be, although that is a factor any star player will consider. But having NO coach in place says “we don’t know what the fvck we’re doing”. Yes I did pull them out of my butt, that's why I said I feel like that's what it was....I never claimed any certainty behind those figures lol. There was obviously a little more uncertainty for a few days when they didn't have a GM either, but I think by bringing in Lou, ownership is sending the message that "we actually DO know what we are doing, and we're going in the right direction". I also feel like it would be pretty easy to put Tavares' worries to bed via a quick face to face meeting. You and I are on the sidelines seeing this unfold and only privy to what is released from the media - it's a lot different and easier to take someone's word in person. I think we all know Lou to be quite the convincing individual, and I can't imagine when sitting down having lunch with Tavares that he'd have a hard time reassuring him that their team was in good hands and good things were on the horizon. Agree to disagree though. And I really wish we were having this discussion in a bar right now, taking back some suds. Also, I wish it was October already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Yes I did pull them out of my butt, that's why I said I feel like that's what it was....I never claimed any certainty behind those figures lol. There was obviously a little more uncertainty for a few days when they didn't have a GM either, but I think by bringing in Lou, ownership is sending the message that "we actually DO know what we are doing, and we're going in the right direction". I also feel like it would be pretty easy to put Tavares' worries to bed via a quick face to face meeting. You and I are on the sidelines seeing this unfold and only privy to what is released from the media - it's a lot different and easier to take someone's word in person. I think we all know Lou to be quite the convincing individual, and I can't imagine when sitting down having lunch with Tavares that he'd have a hard time reassuring him that their team was in good hands and good things were on the horizon. Agree to disagree though. And I really wish we were having this discussion in a bar right now, taking back some suds. Also, I wish it was October already. I’m not sure LL in 2018 conveys that message. His reputation took a pretty big hit over the years. That may just be among us Devils fans. In any event, I agree with the last paragraph. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 If you ever read any autobiography or biography of any NHL player you will see that yes, who the coaches are definitely does matter to the players. Some more than others, but they all care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitchmack Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, mfitz804 said: I don’t know what you are basing your percentages on, and I think you are way off. I think players, especially star players, care who their coach is. But bigger than that, they want championships, they want to know their team is headed in that direction. How do you sell a guy that when you’re a coachless team that just missed the playoffs? What kind of stability does that show? I have to agree with that. I'd think any pro-sports player wants to know they're playing for an organisation that is trying to win and who their coach is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Clearly I'm in the minority, but I have no problem with that. I guess I just find it odd. If it were me, I'd care much more about the makeup of the 23-man roster that I'm apart of and who's dishing me passes in front of the net, rather than the guy in a suit standing behind me on the bench who's going to try to craft plays that WE eventually execute, not him. @mfitz804, or anyone else for that matter. Make it interesting and bet which happens first? HC spot is filled, or Tavares signs/doesn't sign? I'd be willing to bet a beer or a 6-pack. I could have one shipped up there if I lose lol. Or, maybe the loser just donates 10 bucks to NJDevs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 49 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: @mfitz804, or anyone else for that matter. Make it interesting and bet which happens first? HC spot is filled, or Tavares signs/doesn't sign? I'd be willing to bet a beer or a 6-pack. I could have one shipped up there if I lose lol. Or, maybe the loser just donates 10 bucks to NJDevs? I'd do it, BUT, if the HC spot is filled, OR if it is not filled and JT leaves, both of those mean I win. You'd only "win" if JT re-signs with no coach in place. If that's what you're saying, I'll wager the $10 donation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 24 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: I'd do it, BUT, if the HC spot is filled, OR if it is not filled and JT leaves, both of those mean I win. You'd only "win" if JT re-signs with no coach in place. If that's what you're saying, I'll wager the $10 donation. Why do you win if JT leaves and the HC spot is still empty? That's kind of what I'm saying. I think the JT situation resolves itself before the HC situation does, be it him signing or leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Why do you win if JT leaves and the HC spot is still empty? That's kind of what I'm saying. I think the JT situation resolves itself before the HC situation does, be it him signing or leaving. Because I am saying that not having a coach is an impediment to signing the big free agent. What you were saying, as I interpreted it, was it was more important to sign the free agent to attract a coach, rather than signing a coach to attract the free agent. If he leaves, it could be specifically because he doesn't think the team has direction because they don't even have a coach. Edited June 20, 2018 by mfitz804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Because I am saying that not having a coach is an impediment to signing the big free agent. Oh, I see what you're saying. This is kind of unfair, at least for me, if I end up agreeing to this lol, because even if JT leaves and there's no HC still, we'll never know exactly if he left because of that vacancy, unless he outright says so, which I doubt will happen. The end of the month is nearing and we only have 10 days left until this probably all comes to an end (I think he signs somewhere on July 1st, whether it's the Isles or elsewhere). Earlier in the month when his free agency talk was just starting to get going, I was pretty hot on this topic because I thought his fate would be decided before a new HC was announced. But like I said as we get closer to July 1, it seems more and more likely that you would win that bet under those terms, simply because I have a feeling he signs a deal on that date. But fvck it, let's make it interesting anyway, and it's for a good cause. 10 bucks if JT re-signs with the Isles before a HC is announced. Deal. That's the closest I could find to a handshake emoji lol Edited June 20, 2018 by NJDfan1711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, NJDfan1711 said: Oh, I see what you're saying. This is kind of unfair, at least for me, if I end up agreeing to this lol, because even if JT leaves and there's no HC still, we'll never know exactly if he left because of that vacancy, unless he outright says so, which I doubt will happen. I understand, but I'm not really opining on who they will sign first, I am saying I think its more important to have the coach in place to attract the free agent rather than signing the free agent to attract the coach. At the end of the day, it could happen either way, but I think its more attractive to a free agent if the coach is known. It could happen, also, that they have a deal in principle with a coach, they tell JT that, and the coach just winds up physically signing the deal later, or vice versa, which we also wouldn't know about. That said, just for sh!ts and giggles, I propose the following: 1) If JT signs with the Isles before the Isles sign a head coach, you win, I donate $10. 2) If a head coach signs with the Isles before JT signs a deal, whether with the Isles or elsewhere, I win, you donate $10. 3) If JT signs somewhere other than the Isles before the Isles sign a head coach, its a push and we both donate $5. 4) If he signs with the Devils before the Isles sign a head coach, that's a win for everyone, we both donate $10. We will appoint a judge to determine when there is sufficient media evidence to prove that someone has been "signed"; we aren't talking about who has a press conference first, and we may not actually get to see footage of the actual contract signing. I say we take the first volunteer for that position. How's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 50 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: I understand, but I'm not really opining on who they will sign first, I am saying I think its more important to have the coach in place to attract the free agent rather than signing the free agent to attract the coach. At the end of the day, it could happen either way, but I think its more attractive to a free agent if the coach is known. It could happen, also, that they have a deal in principle with a coach, they tell JT that, and the coach just winds up physically signing the deal later, or vice versa, which we also wouldn't know about. That said, just for sh!ts and giggles, I propose the following: 1) If JT signs with the Isles before the Isles sign a head coach, you win, I donate $10. 2) If a head coach signs with the Isles before JT signs a deal, whether with the Isles or elsewhere, I win, you donate $10. 3) If JT signs somewhere other than the Isles before the Isles sign a head coach, its a push and we both donate $5. 4) If he signs with the Devils before the Isles sign a head coach, that's a win for everyone, we both donate $10. We will appoint a judge to determine when there is sufficient media evidence to prove that someone has been "signed"; we aren't talking about who has a press conference first, and we may not actually get to see footage of the actual contract signing. I say we take the first volunteer for that position. How's that? Perfect. I'm in. I guess we just need someone to keep track now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 31 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Perfect. I'm in. I guess we just need someone to keep track now. Awesome. Who will volunteer to be the judge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I can judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Ok. Game is on. Probably won't hear anything for the next 10 days lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBallofHate Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 RUMOR: Elliotte FriedmanVerified account @FriedgeHNIC 2m2 minutes ago More No one is expecting Lou Lamoriello to confirm anything...but word here in DAL is a five-year deal for Trotz at least $4M per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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