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2018 UFA Thread


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Just now, MadDog2020 said:

Move him to wing in that scenario. But I’m not giving up on the kid yet.

I'm not either, just not sure if there's really room for him (and I think the organization's been frustrated with him at times)...do we really know if he can handle being a wing?  At any rate, to me the Devils either keep Zacha OR deal the 2019 first-rounder.  I'm not thrilled with the idea of losing both.  If Shero is willing to do that, then it really tells you that he's pretty high on Johnson...and considering his bargain potential, I can understand that. 

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I don't get the "Zacha is a bust" movement. He obviously didn't hit the ground running like Nico, but most young players need time to develop  and labelling him a bust after only two seasons is premature imo. 

I want him here unless he's a piece in a deal that gets us a very good player/prospect. Otherwise keep him even if it means him playing the wing.

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5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

do we really know if he can handle being a wing?  

We don't even know if he can handle being a center. 

EDIT: I am definitely NOT calling him a bust, but as of now, he's unproven. 

Edited by mfitz804
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21 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:


He’s 21. It’s entirely too early to call him a bust. This take is really beginning to irritate me. Probably because I’ve been watching hockey for 33 years of the 39 I’ve been alive, and I’ve learned that most players take time to develop. This fan base is so fvcking spoiled that it has completely skewered reality for some fans. Not every prospect is McDavid.


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Hey, I'm just a guy with an opinion.  I don't claim to be an expert evaluator of talent by any means.  I respect you've been a follower of the sport for a long time, but the NHL has changed significantly over the past 10 years (which I'm sure you're aware of).

In today's NHL, guys are entering the league earlier and earlier.  21 in 2018's NHL isn't the same as 21 in 1995.  It also doesn't help that all the other guys in the top-10 from his draft year have developed into at least above-average NHLers at this point.  Wasn't the knock on Zacha that he had all the physical tools in the world but no hockey IQ to go with them?  Has he shown us anything thus far indicating that's inaccurate?  Wasn't he also the most physically NHL-ready prospect in that draft class?

Edit: Regardless, my point is I'd sell high on Zacha now if it means we're getting legit talent back.  We can debate Zacha's future in a different thread not about UFA.

Edited by Devilsfan118
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But anyway, let's fvck around a bit before the deal is announced.  Fill in the blanks:

Ottawa gets: __________
Tampa gets: Karlsson, _________
NJ gets: Kucherov, Ryan, Callahan

Edit: This is clearly fantasy land here, I'm aware of this.

Edited by Devilsfan118
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Hey, I'm just a guy with an opinion.  I don't claim to be an expert evaluator of talent by any means.  I respect you've been a follower of the sport for a long time, but the NHL has changed significantly over the past 10 years (which I'm sure you're aware of).

In today's NHL, guys are entering the league earlier and earlier.  21 in 2018's NHL isn't the same as 21 in 1995.  It also doesn't help that all the other guys in the top-10 from his draft year have developed into at least above-average NHLers at this point.  Wasn't the knock on Zacha that he had all the physical tools in the world but no hockey IQ to go with them?  Has he shown us anything thus far indicating that's inaccurate?  Wasn't he also the most physically NHL-ready prospect in that draft class?

Edit: Regardless, my point is I'd sell high on Zacha now if it means we're getting legit talent back.  We can debate Zacha's future in a different thread not about UFA.

The thing to remember is that every player has their own development path- development isn’t linear. Just because those guys in Zacha’s draft have outperformed him to this point doesn’t make Zacha a bust. How much would it suck to trade him only to watch him turn into Ryan Kesler somewhere else? Patience my friend lol.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

But anyway, let's fvck around a bit before the deal is announced.  Fill in the blanks:

Ottawa gets: __________
Tampa gets: Karlsson, _________
NJ gets: Kucherov, Ryan, Callahan

Edit: This is clearly fantasy land here, I'm aware of this.

I actually think a 4-way trade could be possible so that Tampa can clear enough to make a Karlsson extension doable. Say both the Devils and NYR are involved, maybe:

To Ottawa: TB 2020 1st, Cal Foote, Taylor Raddysh, Jake Dotchin
To Tampa Bay: Erik Karlsson, John Quenneville
To New Jersey: Bobby Ryan, Tyler Johnson
To NY Rangers: Ryan Callahan, TB 2019 3rd, 2019 4th

Ottawa gets a 1st and two blue chip prospects plus a young roster defenseman, Tampa gets Karlsson with an extension and a project prospect, Devils take on Ryan to facilitate the deal and get Tyler Johnson as part of it to be our #2 center, and the Rangers get a couple picks for taking on Callahan's cap hit.

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14 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

I actually think a 4-way trade could be possible so that Tampa can clear enough to make a Karlsson extension doable. Say both the Devils and NYR are involved, maybe:

To Ottawa: TB 2020 1st, Cal Foote, Taylor Raddysh, Jake Dotchin
To Tampa Bay: Erik Karlsson, John Quenneville
To New Jersey: Bobby Ryan, Tyler Johnson
To NY Rangers: Ryan Callahan, TB 2019 3rd, 2019 4th

Ottawa gets a 1st and two blue chip prospects plus a young roster defenseman, Tampa gets Karlsson with an extension and a project prospect, Devils take on Ryan to facilitate the deal and get Tyler Johnson as part of it to be our #2 center, and the Rangers get a couple picks for taking on Callahan's cap hit.

I personally don't think Tyler Johnson is worth taking on Bobby Ryan.   That contract is way too long.   Unless we are getting Sergachev, even if it means we're sending other pieces out to balance things, I want no part of Bobby Ryan. 

Re: Zacha - He's been underwhelming so far but we saw very clear development as the season went along last year.  I'll be worried when he stops showing clear and obvious progress.      

Edited by Lateralous
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24 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Hey, I'm just a guy with an opinion.  I don't claim to be an expert evaluator of talent by any means.  I respect you've been a follower of the sport for a long time, but the NHL has changed significantly over the past 10 years (which I'm sure you're aware of).

In today's NHL, guys are entering the league earlier and earlier.  21 in 2018's NHL isn't the same as 21 in 1995.  It also doesn't help that all the other guys in the top-10 from his draft year have developed into at least above-average NHLers at this point.  Wasn't the knock on Zacha that he had all the physical tools in the world but no hockey IQ to go with them?  Has he shown us anything thus far indicating that's inaccurate?  Wasn't he also the most physically NHL-ready prospect in that draft class?

Edit: Regardless, my point is I'd sell high on Zacha now if it means we're getting legit talent back.  We can debate Zacha's future in a different thread not about UFA.

like i said earlier... Zacha is 21 with 2 seasons under his belt already. Many many many very good NHL players were not even in the NHL at that age and produced at a similar rate than him their first seasons. That should put things in perspective a bit

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But anyway, let's fvck around a bit before the deal is announced.  Fill in the blanks:
Ottawa gets: __________
Tampa gets: Karlsson, _________
NJ gets: Kucherov, Ryan, Callahan
Edit: This is clearly fantasy land here, I'm aware of this.

Tampa isn’t gonna move Kucherov (especially in the conference), as amazing as it would be to land him.... that’s a pipe dream.


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1 minute ago, Lateralous said:

I personally don't think Tyler Johnson is worth taking on Bobby Ryan.   That contract is way too long.   Unless we are getting Sergachev, even if it means we're sending another pieces out to balance things out, I want no part of Bobby Ryan. 

Re: Zacha - He's been underwhelming so far but we saw very clear development as the season went along last year.  I'll be worried when he stops showing clear and obvious progress.      

Yeah I can definitely get the hesitation on Ryan, but there's likely going to be compliance buyouts in a couple years when the CBA is renegotiated and if things really go sideways on Ryan, we can exercise one of those on him. Plus, I think Ryan can still play on a 3rd line and this would give a pretty solid forward group:

Hall - Nico - Palmieri
Wood - Johnson - Johansson
Bratt - Zacha - Ryan
Coleman - Zajac - Noesen
Boyle

Swap around as you see fit, but I'd say that's easily a playoff caliber forward lineup, hands down.

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7 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:


Tampa isn’t gonna move Kucherov (especially in the conference), as amazing as it would be to land him.... that’s a pipe dream.


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Nah I know, just stargazing a bit. 

The cap logistics, while theoretically do-able I think, would be a nightmare.

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6 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Ok, my turn.

Ottawa gets: 2019 1st (NJ, lottery protected), 2020 1st (TBL), 2019 2nd (TBL) Damon Severson

New Jersey gets: Brayden Point, Cal Foote, Ryan Callahan, Bobby Ryan

Tampa gets: Erik Karlsson

I would probably do it if it were Sergachev.   I think that would work better for Tampa as well since they still have Stralman, EK, McD and Hedman as a top 4 but I don't think they have any other good options for 2C.   

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm not either, just not sure if there's really room for him (and I think the organization's been frustrated with him at times)...do we really know if he can handle being a wing?  

You have to be a special kind of special to be a C but not handle playing wing. 

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21 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

Hall - Nico - Palmieri
Wood - Johnson - Johansson
Bratt - Zacha - Ryan
Coleman - Zajac - Noesen
Boyle

For the record, I am totally in favor of making Ken Daneyko comment on games where guys named Johnson and Johansson are on the same line. If we can also pick up Ross Johnston from the Isles, that would be even better. 

We'd never have any idea who was doing what. 

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

For the record, I am totally in favor of making Ken Daneyko comment on games where guys named Johnson and Johansson are on the same line. If we can also pick up Ross Johnston from the Isles, that would be even better. 

We'd never have any idea who was doing what. 

I thought the same thing, especially wouldn't be able to wait for Dano to just combine the two into "Marcus Johnson" or "Tyler Johansson" like a DBZ fusion.

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4 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

I would probably do it if it were Sergachev.   I think that would work better for Tampa as well since they still have Stralman, EK, McD and Hedman as a top 4 but I don't think they have any other good options for 2C.   

This actually has me salivating a bit (Point or Segachev going to NJ), but TBL are only giving up a low first, a low 2nd, and Point essentially to land EK?  Bobby Ryan & Callahan don't count as positive value-add assets.  Seems like TB would be winning in a major way.  I guess Cal Foote was drafted pretty highly by TB, but I am not very familiar with his projection.  I'd rather throw a NJ 1st+2nd+good young player or 2 to TB directly if that's all it takes (though I guess we don't really have any roster ready players at the level of a Point or Sergachev that we could afford to lose).  It does seem to make some sense that NJ would be involved as the 3rd team, so, let's see what transpires.  So long as we grab a good piece and not purely some dumped contracts, I'd be happy.

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2 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Ok, my turn.

Ottawa gets: 2019 1st (NJ, lottery protected), 2020 1st (TBL), 2019 2nd (TBL) Damon Severson

New Jersey gets: Brayden Point, Cal Foote, Ryan Callahan, Bobby Ryan

Tampa gets: Erik Karlsson

Jesus, Callahan AND Ryan. 

You're like Mother Theresa. But if that gets us Point and Foote. I think i'd do it

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1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:


He’s 21. It’s entirely too early to call him a bust. This take is really beginning to irritate me. Probably because I’ve been watching hockey for 33 years of the 39 I’ve been alive, and I’ve learned that most players take time to develop. This fan base is so fvcking spoiled that it has completely skewered reality for some fans. Not every prospect is McDavid.


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With me, it's more tough love for him than actual hate. Do I want to give him away for nothing? No. Do I think he is a complete failure already? No. But I'm going to say some hyperbolic sh!t about him out of frustration. 

One line of thinking that I respectfully disagree with though is some form of the oft-repeated "Not every prospect is McDavid," defense.

Obviously not every high first round pick becomes a superstar and that's fine. But Zacha to me hasn't even proven he's a serviceable player yet. He looks lost on the ice, makes tons of horrendous plays, and it's hard to tell if he's making any strides at all. 

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