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MadDog2020

Harris and Blitzer betting big on Newark

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19 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Shaq is in for another investment too between Newark Penn and the arena.  All good news to me,

https://www.tapinto.net/towns/newark/articles/newark-planning-board-oks-plans-for-second-shaq

Yep, I read about that when it was first announced. Here’s hoping Newark can enjoy a renaissance similar to those of Hoboken and Jersey City. 

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I guess this latest announcement was for a second tower.

 

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Wish them the best, but I just don't see it happening.  You can build all the arenas, restaurants and shopping centers you want, a city is never really revitalized unless enough taxpaying citizens actually want to live there.  I don't see a bunch of tech or finance companies ever moving to Newark to make enough of their workforces ever want to live there.  The commute to the city isn't really that much more convenient than it is from places like South Orange, Maplewood or Montclair where rents for yuppyish apartments aren't terrible (home prices are another issue).  I also don't see violent crime ever dipping to tolerable levels for most people. 

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7 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Wish them the best, but I just don't see it happening.  You can build all the arenas, restaurants and shopping centers you want, a city is never really revitalized unless enough taxpaying citizens actually want to live there.  I don't see a bunch of tech or finance companies ever moving to Newark to make enough of their workforces ever want to live there.  The commute to the city isn't really that much more convenient than it is from places like South Orange, Maplewood or Montclair where rents for yuppyish apartments aren't terrible (home prices are another issue).  I also don't see violent crime ever dipping to tolerable levels for most people

I think this is the biggest key for the city.  If crime is still running rampant, then the yuppies aren't coming.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Wish them the best, but I just don't see it happening.  You can build all the arenas, restaurants and shopping centers you want, a city is never really revitalized unless enough taxpaying citizens actually want to live there.  I don't see a bunch of tech or finance companies ever moving to Newark to make enough of their workforces ever want to live there.  The commute to the city isn't really that much more convenient than it is from places like South Orange, Maplewood or Montclair where rents for yuppyish apartments aren't terrible (home prices are another issue).  I also don't see violent crime ever dipping to tolerable levels for most people. 

Amazon may move there, which would be pretty huge for the city if they can get it done (I don’t know where that stands at the moment though). Panasonic already has their HQ there too.

Edited by MadDog2020

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22 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I think this is the biggest key for the city.  If crime is still running rampant, then the yuppies aren't coming.

I mean, overall Philadelphia is a pretty violent city, but it's more or less confined to specific areas so that a lot of yuppy types actually do live in the city proper rather than in the suburbs.  So perhaps that's what Harris and Blitzer have in mind.  They do own the Sixers after all.

 

3 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Amazon may move there, which would be pretty huge for the city if they can get it done (I don’t know where that stands at the moment though). 

The list of places it's considering seems to be pretty extensive.  I don't know if Newark can compete with the subsidies Amazon is likely to get in other places.

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5 hours ago, Daniel said:

I mean, overall Philadelphia is a pretty violent city, but it's more or less confined to specific areas so that a lot of yuppy types actually do live in the city proper rather than in the suburbs.  So perhaps that's what Harris and Blitzer have in mind.  They do own the Sixers after all.

I think Newark is getting better in that regard.  A lot of the real bad stuff tends to stick to the west side of Newark these days (and I admit that there still is isolated incidences in the rest of Newark as well).  Ironbound is pretty nice and getting better.  Same thing with downtown.  All downtown really needs is a sort of "broken windows" policing to clean it up.

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5 hours ago, Daniel said:

I mean, overall Philadelphia is a pretty violent city, but it's more or less confined to specific areas

Wrong

5 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I think this is the biggest key for the city.  If crime is still running rampant, then the yuppies aren't coming.

Wrong

 

Newark is a fine city, and the idea that more white professionals makes a city "better" is patronizing and racist. It's funny that people beg the same forces that plunged the American inner city into poverty and destitution 70 years ago to come back and save it now. Gentrification means displacement, which I wouldn't hope for the people of Newark, but it's bound to happen eventually. Eventually developers will come down on Newark, market it to NYC professionals, and after the first couple years of the demographic shift it'll get the term "up and coming" and that'll be that. No other city in North Jersey that hasn't already been turned around has the infrastructure to support that kind of cultural development. It's well connected to NYC, it has the urban landscape that's sold so well for the better part of two decades. It's got the "grittiness" new residents will love to brag about, tons of ethnic food options,  public transit. Wait for NJIT to attract more residents, too. It's got all the ingredients.

The same thing you guys are saying about how Newark will never change are the same exact things people were saying over the past two decades about Brooklyn, Philly, DC, Baltimore, Detroit, even Pittsburgh and Buffalo. It'll happen one day, and I'm sure from there another 50 years until it's left to rot again. 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

Wrong

Wrong

 

Newark is a fine city, and the idea that more white professionals makes a city "better" is patronizing and racist. It's funny that people beg the same forces that plunged the American inner city into poverty and destitution 70 years ago to come back and save it now. Gentrification means displacement, which I wouldn't hope for the people of Newark, but it's bound to happen eventually. Eventually developers will come down on Newark, market it to NYC professionals, and after the first couple years of the demographic shift it'll get the term "up and coming" and that'll be that. No other city in North Jersey that hasn't already been turned around has the infrastructure to support that kind of cultural development. It's well connected to NYC, it has the urban landscape that's sold so well for the better part of two decades. It's got the "grittiness" new residents will love to brag about, tons of ethnic food options,  public transit. Wait for NJIT to attract more residents, too. It's got all the ingredients.

The same thing you guys are saying about how Newark will never change are the same exact things people were saying over the past two decades about Brooklyn, Philly, DC, Baltimore, Detroit, even Pittsburgh and Buffalo. It'll happen one day, and I'm sure from there another 50 years until it's left to rot again. 

I’m sick of your social justice warrior fvcking bullsh!t.   Newark is a sh!thole.  It has one of the highest murder rates in the country, has public schools that no one wants to go to and that have failing grades despite being well funded, and no appreciable tax base as evidenced by the fact that the rest of Essex county and the state has to pay its bills.  That is all a product of the people that live there and businesses that can’t operate there, not tragic dirt, structural racism, toxic maculinty, redlining or whatever moronic buzzwords you learned in your critical race studies classes or by reading nonsense from your pseudo intellectual guru Mr. Coates.  

If Newark is ever going to change, it needs at the very least, enough residents who pay taxes, don’t commit violent crime and more importantly don’t tolerate violent crime, among other things.  As I said, an arena, some restaurants and bars aren't going to change it.  

And there is one thing I’ve learned in the past couple of years.  Arguing with someone over whether anything in particular is “racist” is a waste of valuable time  on this earth that you never get back.  So maybe take it up with your antifa pals.

Edited by Daniel
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I still don’t want to visit Detroit, let alone live or work there. 

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Sadly i feel that even if Newark would suddenly become a super clean and safe city... they'd still be stuck with that bad reputation for decades. Kind of like the team was stuck with the "boring hockey / playing the trap" thing, even years after not playing the trap anymore

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8 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Sadly i feel that even if Newark would suddenly become a super clean and safe city... they'd still be stuck with that bad reputation for decades. Kind of like the team was stuck with the "boring hockey / playing the trap" thing, even years after not playing the trap anymore

That's almost a guarantee.  Old habits die hard, and so do old thoughts and reputations.  People have a hard time viewing things as new or changed, and seeing it for themselves.  

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17 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

That's almost a guarantee.  Old habits die hard, and so do old thoughts and reputations.  People have a hard time viewing things as new or changed, and seeing it for themselves.  

That’s because people are pretty stupid. 

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1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

That’s because people are pretty stupid. 

Understatement of the century 🙂

(Hey, we have new emojis)

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10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Sadly i feel that even if Newark would suddenly become a super clean and safe city... they'd still be stuck with that bad reputation for decades. Kind of like the team was stuck with the "boring hockey / playing the trap" thing, even years after not playing the trap anymore

You’re probably right. But most of it is still sh!t at the present time. When they started talking about moving out of the Meadowlands, I really did not want them to move to Newark.

Im past that, partially because it’s way easy to get there. 

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18 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

Wrong

Wrong

 

Newark is a fine city, and the idea that more white professionals makes a city "better" is patronizing and racist. It's funny that people beg the same forces that plunged the American inner city into poverty and destitution 70 years ago to come back and save it now. Gentrification means displacement, which I wouldn't hope for the people of Newark, but it's bound to happen eventually. Eventually developers will come down on Newark, market it to NYC professionals, and after the first couple years of the demographic shift it'll get the term "up and coming" and that'll be that. No other city in North Jersey that hasn't already been turned around has the infrastructure to support that kind of cultural development. It's well connected to NYC, it has the urban landscape that's sold so well for the better part of two decades. It's got the "grittiness" new residents will love to brag about, tons of ethnic food options,  public transit. Wait for NJIT to attract more residents, too. It's got all the ingredients.

The same thing you guys are saying about how Newark will never change are the same exact things people were saying over the past two decades about Brooklyn, Philly, DC, Baltimore, Detroit, even Pittsburgh and Buffalo. It'll happen one day, and I'm sure from there another 50 years until it's left to rot again. 

I figured this would be a topic you would chime in on given your social justice warrior pedigree.  You didn't fail to deliver.

Not once did I mention race or white people.  Yet that's how you interpreted it and I'm somehow the racist one.  Go figure.

15 hours ago, Daniel said:

I’m sick of your social justice warrior fvcking bullsh!t.   Newark is a sh!thole.  It has one of the highest murder rates in the country, has public schools that no one wants to go to and that have failing grades despite being well funded, and no appreciable tax base as evidenced by the fact that the rest of Essex county and the state has to pay its bills.  That is all a product of the people that live there and businesses that can’t operate there, not tragic dirt, structural racism, toxic maculinty, redlining or whatever moronic buzzwords you learned in your critical race studies classes or by reading nonsense from your pseudo intellectual guru Mr. Coates.  

If Newark is ever going to change, it needs at the very least, enough residents who pay taxes, don’t commit violent crime and more importantly don’t tolerate violent crime, among other things.  As I said, an arena, some restaurants and bars aren't going to change it.  

And there is one thing I’ve learned in the past couple of years.  Arguing with someone over whether anything in particular is “racist” is a waste of valuable time  on this earth that you never get back.  So maybe take it up with your antifa pals.

100% this.

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I don't see anyway that companies or individuals that are willing to spend millions and millions of dollars developing in the area is anything but a good thing. Will it move the needle I believe it will. Will it solve everything hell no but its a positive step. 

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20 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

Wrong

Wrong

 

Newark is a fine city, and the idea that more white professionals makes a city "better" is patronizing and racist. It's funny that people beg the same forces that plunged the American inner city into poverty and destitution 70 years ago to come back and save it now. Gentrification means displacement, which I wouldn't hope for the people of Newark, but it's bound to happen eventually. Eventually developers will come down on Newark, market it to NYC professionals, and after the first couple years of the demographic shift it'll get the term "up and coming" and that'll be that. No other city in North Jersey that hasn't already been turned around has the infrastructure to support that kind of cultural development. It's well connected to NYC, it has the urban landscape that's sold so well for the better part of two decades. It's got the "grittiness" new residents will love to brag about, tons of ethnic food options,  public transit. Wait for NJIT to attract more residents, too. It's got all the ingredients.

The same thing you guys are saying about how Newark will never change are the same exact things people were saying over the past two decades about Brooklyn, Philly, DC, Baltimore, Detroit, even Pittsburgh and Buffalo. It'll happen one day, and I'm sure from there another 50 years until it's left to rot again. 

Not wrong about Philadelphia.

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I just want to say that it's so nice that I don't have to argue this particular subject anymore with the vigor that I did years ago. The arena has brought about enough change among enough people to where even if there are still a lot of people who maintain the old views about Newark, there are people who otherwise would never have had reason to take an interest in this subject that are noticing the changes and willing to comment in the positive. 

Beware TL:DR ahead:

As far as gentrification and displacement is concerned, the only reason that is an issue is because of the flight of middle and upper class families out of urban areas in the first place. As far as Newark being a drain on the rest of the state and Essex County, Newark also takes on an awful lot of NIMBY-type important infrastructure and service to the state and county that, by virtue of the home-rule obsession of this state, people in the rest of the county and state use but don't have to deal with having within their municipal boundaries. The airport, seaport, prisons, rail hubs, government buildings, universities, museums, interstate highways, etc. are all used by everyone throughout the state, but aren't paying taxes to Newark's coffers (yes, I know the PANYNJ paid Newark for the usage of their land and the city used it to pay for the Prudential Center, but the details of that transaction highlight the fact that Newark is actually leveraging one for the good of the region NIMBY to bring in yet another one).

In reality, home-rule has redlined cities like Newark on a socio-economic level. It allows the people of the suburbs to simultaneously use all the services housed in those cities and look down their noses at how terribly mismanaged those cities are--all the while not understanding that without those cities and the services they provide, their land values would be considerably lower and their taxes would be considerably higher. By segregating our municipal government boundaries on the basis of land values and trying to perfect the blend of children eligible for the very greatest school district, you're creating a system of enormous imbalances in services and opportunity. Mind you, this isn't on its face a racist issue, but it absolutely can and has manifested itself that way in many instances.

Consolidation of municipalities like those that make up Essex County and other very dense areas of the state so that a broader spread of the socio-economic spectrum are all forced to coexist and share both the burdens and the advantages of the services offered by the area is the solution. Essex County was laid out as a single city, not 22. The vast majority of the major roads in the county run into downtown Newark. The county is the 14th densest in the country. It should all be one city.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NewarkDevil5 said:

 

I don't want to quote the text again, but this is a great summary of the issues involved.  Anyone who upvoted the screed above should also take some time to read this post by ND5.

Edited by Triumph
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3 hours ago, NewarkDevil5 said:

I just want to say that it's so nice that I don't have to argue this particular subject anymore with the vigor that I did years ago. The arena has brought about enough change among enough people to where even if there are still a lot of people who maintain the old views about Newark, there are people who otherwise would never have had reason to take an interest in this subject that are noticing the changes and willing to comment in the positive. 

Beware TL:DR ahead:

As far as gentrification and displacement is concerned, the only reason that is an issue is because of the flight of middle and upper class families out of urban areas in the first place. As far as Newark being a drain on the rest of the state and Essex County, Newark also takes on an awful lot of NIMBY-type important infrastructure and service to the state and county that, by virtue of the home-rule obsession of this state, people in the rest of the county and state use but don't have to deal with having within their municipal boundaries. The airport, seaport, prisons, rail hubs, government buildings, universities, museums, interstate highways, etc. are all used by everyone throughout the state, but aren't paying taxes to Newark's coffers (yes, I know the PANYNJ paid Newark for the usage of their land and the city used it to pay for the Prudential Center, but the details of that transaction highlight the fact that Newark is actually leveraging one for the good of the region NIMBY to bring in yet another one).

In reality, home-rule has redlined cities like Newark on a socio-economic level. It allows the people of the suburbs to simultaneously use all the services housed in those cities and look down their noses at how terribly mismanaged those cities are--all the while not understanding that without those cities and the services they provide, their land values would be considerably lower and their taxes would be considerably higher. By segregating our municipal government boundaries on the basis of land values and trying to perfect the blend of children eligible for the very greatest school district, you're creating a system of enormous imbalances in services and opportunity. Mind you, this isn't on its face a racist issue, but it absolutely can and has manifested itself that way in many instances.

Consolidation of municipalities like those that make up Essex County and other very dense areas of the state so that a broader spread of the socio-economic spectrum are all forced to coexist and share both the burdens and the advantages of the services offered by the area is the solution. Essex County was laid out as a single city, not 22. The vast majority of the major roads in the county run into downtown Newark. The county is the 14th densest in the country. It should all be one city.

Sorry, but this avoids the issue.  The people of Newark (and Irvington) take from the people of the rest of Essex county and the state, who foot the bill for the vast majority of Newark's greatest expenditure, its very well funded, but underperforming schools. I fail to see your point about the public services that are located in Newark but "aren't paying taxes to Newark"?  If you're referring to the people that use those things, well the people of Newark don't pay for them either because they don't really pay for anything.

Otherwise, there is a very real entity called Newark.  Newark is in whatever shape it's in because of the people that live there at any given time.  At the moment, the people that live in what we call Newark murder, maim, rob and assault one another in very large numbers and sometimes do the same to unfortunate passersby and visitors.  In addition, the people and businesses that make up Newark don't generate enough wealth to maintain a healthy tax base for whatever Newark has to pay for.  Messrs. Harris and Blitzer are valiantly trying to change that.  I believe it will ultimately be a failure, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Also, you can effectively get rid of the entity called Newark and it can all be called "Essex County" which will include wealthy places like Short Hills, Montclair, etc and it won't change what was formerly known as Newark in any material respect, which is really what we're talking about.  Sure I guess there will be a central administration of some sort and the people that inhabit what was once formerly known as Newark won't be told as much that they don't pay for anything, but people will still recognize Newark as a distinct entity with a lot of problems, the same way that they recognize that East New York and Park Slope are not the same thing and their kids don't go to school with one another even though they're both part of Brooklyn.

The bottom line is that there's no such thing as magic dirt or tragic dirt. 

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While we are at it, what the fvck is with West New York, New Jersey? There ain’t no East New Jersey, New York!!!!

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22 hours ago, Daniel said:

I’m sick of your social justice warrior fvcking bullsh!t.   Newark is a sh!thole.  It has one of the highest murder rates in the country, has public schools that no one wants to go to and that have failing grades despite being well funded, and no appreciable tax base as evidenced by the fact that the rest of Essex county and the state has to pay its bills.  That is all a product of the people that live there and businesses that can’t operate there, not tragic dirt, structural racism, toxic maculinty, redlining or whatever moronic buzzwords you learned in your critical race studies classes or by reading nonsense from your pseudo intellectual guru Mr. Coates.  

If Newark is ever going to change, it needs at the very least, enough residents who pay taxes, don’t commit violent crime and more importantly don’t tolerate violent crime, among other things.  As I said, an arena, some restaurants and bars aren't going to change it.  

And there is one thing I’ve learned in the past couple of years.  Arguing with someone over whether anything in particular is “racist” is a waste of valuable time  on this earth that you never get back.  So maybe take it up with your antifa pals.

Oof, hit a nerve did I? Sorry, snowflake. 

Of course Newark has no tax base, do you understand concepts like deindustrialization and white flight (you can go right ahead and play the "race card" card on that one. White flight is a simple, indisputable fact). You understand that by 1970, most of Newark's wealth had fled to the suburbs and its jobs to the Sun Belt or overseas? You acknowledge yourself Newark has no tax base and can't afford basic services, and you think that's because the people that are left don't have work ethic or business acumen? I assume you have a firm grasp on basic concepts of market economics, maybe you can explain to me how a business generates revenue selling products and services in a city gutted of its wealth and sources of income. Do you think rubbing your arm against a wall until it ejaculates elbow grease does the trick? 

I want to come to understand this theory that residents of a city are the only ones responsible for its decline. A hundred years ago, most cities that today suffer from endemic violence and poverty were more or less prosperous, by standard measures. Are you suggesting that all at one time, after World War Two, there was a drastic and immediate cultural shift that occurred in every major city on the east coast and mid west that led to residents becoming lazy and wanting to shoot each other? That's the final answer? That's quite remarkable. 

Redlining isn't a "buzz word", it was federal policy until the late 60's. You don't even need to go to one of those college degrees you righties have become so disdainful of to learn how to use Google. 

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