Santini signs three year deal

[NJDfan1711]

16 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Agree to disagree.

Not sure what controversy would be started, I can't hardly imagine anybody in that locker room sans Greene being upset by it.  In fact I think the message it sends is at this point in time is Hall is the right choice.  As for always giving it to your best player not necessarily but when your guy brings the same level of importance as an Ovi or Crosby to your team to me the answer is yes.  I think Hall is the heart and soul of this team and carried them on his shoulders. I also don't downplay the "C", I don't look at it like it's just a token letter on a jersey.

That said I respect everyone's opinion.

If you're someone who does regard the C with important rather than it just being a letter on a jersey, then maybe you'll agree with this...

I had mentioned earlier in the year that perhaps Hall's great production was due to the fact that he actually had someone else shouldering some of the burden on this team (i.e. the Captain, Greene).  With just the A on his chest, he could focus more on his game and just contributing on the scoresheet without having to worry as much about motivating the rest of his teammates, making them accountable, and all the other stuff that a Captain is responsible for.  Not saying he can't or won't thrive with a little extra pressure if he's eventually given the C, but I think it's a theory that is plausible. 

[mfitz804]

I’m not sure having the C decreases production. Anyone have an example where a guy’s production went down significantly after being named captain?

[titans04]

4 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

If you're someone who does regard the C with important rather than it just being a letter on a jersey, then maybe you'll agree with this...

I had mentioned earlier in the year that perhaps Hall's great production was due to the fact that he actually had someone else shouldering some of the burden on this team (i.e. the Captain, Greene).  With just the A on his chest, he could focus more on his game and just contributing on the scoresheet without having to worry as much about motivating the rest of his teammates, making them accountable, and all the other stuff that a Captain is responsible for.  Not saying he can't or won't thrive with a little extra pressure if he's eventually given the C, but I think it's a theory that is plausible. 

I'm sure it's possible but I think he would thrive both on the ice and in the room. 

[mfitz804]

7 minutes ago, titans04 said:

I'm sure it's possible but I think he would thrive both on the ice and in the room. 

I have no doubt he would. 

[vadvlfan]

29 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I’m not sure having the C decreases production. Anyone have an example where a guy’s production went down significantly after being named captain?

Dustin Brown was stripped of his "C" by D. Sutter, has been awesome since John Stevens came on board. Don't think they're connected. No way they will strip Greene of the "C".    Maybe trade him "home" to Detroit? (easily top 4 man there) 

[Daniel]

Greene is not getting traded.  He has a full no trade clause and the only team that might really want him would be a bottom feeding team that needs his contract to get to the salary floor, which he would probably beto.  There's also no need to trade hm.  He should have a place in the top 6, but even if he doesn't it shouldn't matter.  Meaning, the Devils could give huge contracts to Karlsson and Panarin and Greene's contract would not have to be moved.

And unless the players don't respect him, there's no need to take the captaincy away from him.  And frankly, I find it to be one of the most boring things that gets talked about over the offseason.

[DevsMan84]

I've said it before and I will say it again, the fans think about the captaincy WAY more than the actual players do.

We also do not know what goes on in the locker room.  For all we know the players still do massively respect Greene and listen to him.  I can imagine if there was a general feeling otherwise that action would be taken to fix this (not like that has never happened before on any team).  Plus the players know who the leaders are whether they have the C or not.  Brodeur was forbidden to wear a letter due to his position but did that mean he was not a leader?

And I agree with Daniel that this is one of the most boring as well as silly things that gets talked about over the offseason.

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

And I agree with Daniel that this is one of the most boring as well as silly things that gets talked about over the offseason.

Fine. 

We should change the goal song, though. 

[DevsMan84]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

Fine. 

We should change the goal song, though. 

Haha even better.  I just think talking about stripping one player of the C to give to another is scraping at the bottom of the barrel.  It is something we really have no clue about because the role is largely behind the scenes.  Not every captain is the team's best player.  I mean the captain for the Capitals immediately before Ovi was Chris Clark.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

29 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I've said it before and I will say it again, the fans think about the captaincy WAY more than the actual players do.

We also do not know what goes on in the locker room.  For all we know the players still do massively respect Greene and listen to him.  I can imagine if there was a general feeling otherwise that action would be taken to fix this (not like that has never happened before on any team).  Plus the players know who the leaders are whether they have the C or not.  Brodeur was forbidden to wear a letter due to his position but did that mean he was not a leader?

And I agree with Daniel that this is one of the most boring as well as silly things that gets talked about over the offseason.

There's still fans that think captains actually (even routinely) get up when their teams are losing and make Hollywood-sports-movie-like inspirational speeches to get everyone going.  Without delving too heavily into this, I agree, I don't think most fans really grasp with the captaincy is, or have a way of making too much out of what captains are.  But I do think the players genuinely like and respect Greene quite a bit...I have no doubts that if Hynes and/or Shero ever felt that Greene being the captain was somehow a detriment to the Devils, that they wouldn't hesitate to make a change.  The guess here is that he keeps the C until he's no longer here, at which point it will be Taylor's...and in Hall's case, it will nothing more than a formality, because he sure didn't need a C on his jersey last season to emerge as a legit leader. 

[Steadevils]

I wonder if one of vatanen or severson could play on the left side especially if Mueller truly is a guy who's more comfortable playing off-hand on the right like they've said. Greene, santini, mueller and lovejoy all need to be with someone who can move the puck out of the zone. I actually remember Santini having a few really good passes early on last season, so I could be off base on him being a total plug on the break-out. Mueller always seems shaky in his own end, but then competent in the neutral and offensive zones. 

Greene-Vatanen

severson-lovejoy

Butcher-santini

 

 

 

[titans04]

2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

There's still fans that think captains actually (even routinely) get up when their teams are losing and make Hollywood-sports-movie-like inspirational speeches to get everyone going.  Without delving too heavily into this, I agree, I don't think most fans really grasp with the captaincy is, or have a way of making too much out of what captains are.  But I do think the players genuinely like and respect Greene quite a bit...I have no doubts that if Hynes and/or Shero ever felt that Greene being the captain was somehow a detriment to the Devils, that they wouldn't hesitate to make a change.  The guess here is that he keeps the C until he's no longer here, at which point it will be Taylor's...and in Hall's case, it will nothing more than a formality, because he sure didn't need a C on his jersey last season to emerge as a legit leader. 

Nope imo it's more about carrying the team on the ice. 

As for being bored I'll let this go and focus on jerseys and the goal song. 

It's all good.

[DevsMan84]

6 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Nope imo it's more about carrying the team on the ice. 

As for being bored I'll let this go and focus on jerseys and the goal song. 

It's all good.

So you are saying that if Hall had the C this past season instead of Greene, the Devils would have squeezed out a few more wins?

[mfitz804]

 

Obviously!

 

 

[titans04]

3 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

So you are saying that if Hall had the C this past season instead of Greene, the Devils would have squeezed out a few more wins?

Um where did I say that?  I'll go out on a limb and say Hall led the team to many of their wins, are you saying Greene did as well? I would bet if the players voted Hall would have it. 

I'm too lazy to look it up but I recall a sh!tton of posts/threads coming down the stretch last season where almost everybody here had the same thought about Taylor deserving the C as he put the team on his back. 

Anyway black or green 3rds? Favorite goal song that goes with "you suck"?

[mfitz804]

16 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Favorite goal song that goes with "you suck"?

 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

14 hours ago, titans04 said:

Nope imo it's more about carrying the team on the ice. 

As for being bored I'll let this go and focus on jerseys and the goal song. 

It's all good.

Wasn't really addressing you directly in my last post...was more making a point that some people's perception of what a captain is can often be off-base, or overblown.  I've seen some posters here get on various captains through the years for stuff that was really kinda silly. 

I'm all for Hall getting the C (either now or later, doesn't matter, I'll let those closest to the situation monitor that), but he's capable of leading and carrying with or without it. 

[DevsMan84]

11 hours ago, titans04 said:

Um where did I say that?  I'll go out on a limb and say Hall led the team to many of their wins, are you saying Greene did as well? I would bet if the players voted Hall would have it. 

I'm too lazy to look it up but I recall a sh!tton of posts/threads coming down the stretch last season where almost everybody here had the same thought about Taylor deserving the C as he put the team on his back. 

Anyway black or green 3rds? Favorite goal song that goes with "you suck"?

Hall can do that with or without a letter.  You really are blowing what a stupid letter sewn onto someone's chest means.

Yes there were a ton of threads saying Taylor deserves the C.  He probably does.  But again, who really cares?  The fans on here and on other various forms of social media most likely think about this much more than the team does.

[NJDfan1711]

17 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

There's still fans that think captains actually (even routinely) get up when their teams are losing and make Hollywood-sports-movie-like inspirational speeches to get everyone going.  Without delving too heavily into this, I agree, I don't think most fans really grasp with the captaincy is, or have a way of making too much out of what captains are.  But I do think the players genuinely like and respect Greene quite a bit...I have no doubts that if Hynes and/or Shero ever felt that Greene being the captain was somehow a detriment to the Devils, that they wouldn't hesitate to make a change.  The guess here is that he keeps the C until he's no longer here, at which point it will be Taylor's...and in Hall's case, it will nothing more than a formality, because he sure didn't need a C on his jersey last season to emerge as a legit leader. 

To be fair, it depends entirely and completely on the player and his personality.  There are absolutely, unequivocally, still players in the league who do make those Hollywood-esque, Miracle-inspired speeches in order to get their teammates pumped up, and elevate them to another level.  It's their job.  Some guys are better at it than others.  Some coaches don't put as much emphasis on or ask their captains to be vocal leaders as much as others.  But there are most certainly guys who do that.  The role of the captain, at least traditionally, is someone who is usually regarded as an alpha-male.  They're the stand up, take charge, leader-type individuals who are capable or rallying a group of people in the quest for victory.  It sounds so cliché, like you're making the captain of an NHL team out to be akin to Mel Gibson in Braveheart, but it's actually pretty similar.  Greene may not exactly be the guy who stands on a chair in the lockerroom during the 2nd intermission to get his team's attention, or throws sh!t around the room in order to make a point (at least I don't get that impression from him), and the simple fact is that, indeed, we really don't know 100% what goes on behind closed doors, but I can tell you with near certainty that there's more than a good portion of those guys still out there who do behave and do exactly those things, for the very reason that they're wearing the C on their jersey.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

57 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

To be fair, it depends entirely and completely on the player and his personality.  There are absolutely, unequivocally, still players in the league who do make those Hollywood-esque, Miracle-inspired speeches in order to get their teammates pumped up, and elevate them to another level.  It's their job.  Some guys are better at it than others.  Some coaches don't put as much emphasis on or ask their captains to be vocal leaders as much as others.  But there are most certainly guys who do that.  The role of the captain, at least traditionally, is someone who is usually regarded as an alpha-male.  They're the stand up, take charge, leader-type individuals who are capable or rallying a group of people in the quest for victory.  It sounds so cliché, like you're making the captain of an NHL team out to be akin to Mel Gibson in Braveheart, but it's actually pretty similar.  Greene may not exactly be the guy who stands on a chair in the lockerroom during the 2nd intermission to get his team's attention, or throws sh!t around the room in order to make a point (at least I don't get that impression from him), and the simple fact is that, indeed, we really don't know 100% what goes on behind closed doors, but I can tell you with near certainty that there's more than a good portion of those guys still out there who do behave and do exactly those things, for the very reason that they're wearing the C on their jersey.  

I'm not saying that Braveheart-type moments never ever ever happen, but not nearly as much as some people want to believe...blame Hollywood and one too many sports movies for the perception that it's some common thing.  And if any given captain simply doesn't have the talent around him, those speeches won't mean d*ck anyway. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDfan1711]

24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm not saying that Braveheart-type moments never ever ever happen, but not nearly as much as some people want to believe...blame Hollywood and one too many sports movies for the perception that it's some common thing.  And if any given captain simply doesn't have the talent around him, those speeches won't mean nose anyway. 

True.  I don't really have a problem with the job Greene's done as captain.  Aside from last year, the previous handful of years have been pretty bleak so to your point even if he was some type of vocal leader, it probably would've fallen on deaf ears given what he had to work with.

[mfitz804]

2 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

True.  I don't really have a problem with the job Greene's done as captain.  Aside from last year, the previous handful of years have been pretty bleak so to your point even if he was some type of vocal leader, it probably would've fallen on deaf ears given what he had to work with.

Getting back to my previous point, none of us should have a problem with what Andy has done as captain, as we aren't privy to any of it. 99% of what a captain does is outside of our knowledge, we only see what they do on the ice, which isn't much.