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MadDog2020

Devils 2018-2019 news and notes thread

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No way we trade Vatanen unless the return is stupid. We need Vatanen long term. We don't have much D, why would we trade a good one? 

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Just now, HellOnICE said:

Andy Greene I can see us moving. 

I’d pay another team to take him at this point. 

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If Greene was a UFA at the end of this season, I could see a team taking a shot with Greene at the deadline.  However, with 1 more year left on his deal at $5 million, I doubt that trading would be a possibility this year.

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Just now, Chuck the Duck said:

If Greene was a UFA at the end of this season, I could see a team taking a shot with Greene at the deadline.  However, with 1 more year left on his deal at $5 million, I doubt that trading would be a possibility this year.

Devils could take on some of Greene's remaining money, but his new team might not be so keen on Greene's $5 million cap hit.  Devils will likely either have to buy him out before next year (that'd be $1,666,667 in dead money over the next two seasons) or try to move him again next year, as he's owed less and less on his final year.

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1 hour ago, jagknife said:

Here’s my problem with keeping Greene: we had that conversation at the end of last year, the “he needs to be moved down the lineup and he’ll be fine” one.

I honestly think you need to take the Greene bullet out of Hynes’ chamber otherwise he’ll keep using it. Hynes holds the Captain in extremely high regard, for some reason, and there is little to no chance he’ll decrease his role. It’s a glaring Hynes flaw.

He seems to trust Greene too much. I really do wonder if, while Hall is the clear leader on the ice, maybe Greene is that important to the locker room to Hynes. I just feel there is another side to things that we don't see.

Well. I hope so anyway, because other than the wacky stats that say he's amazing, I don't know what else it could be. 

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45 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

Andy Greene I can see us moving. 

No one would really want Greene and I believe he has a full NTC.  Vatanen on the other hand could very well command a ridiculous contract when he hits free agency.  It makes sense to sell high on him now.

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Greene retained at 1/3, 1/2 salary would be very valuable for PLayoff+ 1 year deal for a COntender. Solid, playing #4/#5 minutes for 2.5M - is a no brainer.Greene isn't as bad as we think. 

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5 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

Greene retained at 1/3, 1/2 salary would be very valuable for PLayoff+ 1 year deal for a COntender. Solid, playing #4/#5 minutes for 2.5M - is a no brainer.Greene isn't as bad as we think. 

he was probably not as good as we thought a few years back too lol

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1 hour ago, HellOnICE said:

Greene retained at 1/3, 1/2 salary would be very valuable for PLayoff+ 1 year deal for a COntender. Solid, playing #4/#5 minutes for 2.5M - is a no brainer.Greene isn't as bad as we think. 

With a smaller role, you’re absolutely right, he isn’t as bad as we think. But his mobility has clearly declined, and he is a liability in our system. Hynes giving him tough matchups doesn’t help. He’s good on the PK cause we’re not asking him to chase guys around, but once the game moves north south with anything resembling speed, he’s exposed.

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3 hours ago, HellOnICE said:

No way we trade Vatanen unless the return is stupid. We need Vatanen long term. We don't have much D, why would we trade a good one? 

Agreed. Whether you think he is a 1D or not, he's our 1D. You don't trade that guy, not now and not at age 27. 

Wouldn't make sense to trade him for like 3 prospects or picks and then hope that one turns out to be as good as he was. 

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2020-21 - you have to think it's something like 

Vatanen-Smith-Butcher-Severson as 4 of the 6. 

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37 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

2020-21 - you have to think it's something like 

Vatanen-Smith-Butcher-Severson as 4 of the 6. 

Yes, I think that’s right. And add fvcking Greene in there too because I doubt he’s going anywhere. 

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2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Yes, I think that’s right. And add fvcking Greene in there too because I doubt he’s going anywhere. 

I don't think Greene is around then, unless somehow he gets pushed down the line up, is OK with that, and rediscovers the fountain of youth.  I think he gets moved this year for a Cup run, I hope he does not because I don't like him - but because when this team is finally good again, he'll be gone. 

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3 hours ago, HellOnICE said:

2020-21 - you have to think it's something like 

Vatanen-Smith-Butcher-Severson as 4 of the 6. 

The problem with that is that if Vatanen is there he’s 30 years old and on the first or second year of a six or seven year deal at probably $6 million a year probably with a no trade clause.  Greene was a great player once but now we can’t get rid of him and we’re dumping on the Rangers for basically doing the same thing with Shattenkirk and congratulating ourselves for dodging a bullet there.

We’re not competing for the Cup through the end of his current deal and by the time we might be, he won’t be the player he is now and will be on a deal we regret or will have gone somewhere else in free agency.  I would sell high now, and at the same time increase our odds of getting a great player who will help us win a Cup like Hughes or Kakko.  

Other player I would test the market on is Wood.  Apparently Boston likes him, and we have McLeod who can replace him and will probably be better than him.  

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4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

The problem with that is that if Vatanen is there he’s 30 years old and on the first or second year of a six or seven year deal at probably $6 million a year probably with a no trade clause.  Greene was a great player once but now we can’t get rid of him and we’re dumping on the Rangers for basically doing the same thing with Shattenkirk and congratulating ourselves for dodging a bullet there.

We’re not competing for the Cup through the end of his current deal and by the time we might be, he won’t be the player he is now and will be on a deal we regret or will have gone somewhere else in free agency.  I would sell high now, and at the same time increase our odds of getting a great player who will help us win a Cup like Hughes or Kakko.  

Other player I would test the market on is Wood.  Apparently Boston likes him, and we have McLeod who can replace him and will probably be better than him.  

in 2020-2021 - he'll be 29 going into that season, beginning likely a 6-8 year deal at 6M. Greene's contract isn't an issue, nor does anyone know if they are trying to get rid of him. I don't know if Sami is worth an 8 year deal, or 7 from someone else, but I think at 29, he's got some time before he falls off a cliff. I'd be willing to sign him this offseason to 6/6 and if he doesn't want that, you can trade him next season.  I'm willing to take that risk. He could definitely be a huge staple of the second/third pairing when we start to contend. Veterans are important, and Vatanen can assume that role. It's quite possible next season, he's the oldest D. 

I have little faith that McLeod will be better than Wood. What has given you that hope? I still keep Wood, unless we get a good return.

 

 

 

 

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Don't think Greene and his NTC are going anywhere.  I also think Vats is overvalued to a certain degree here because the rest of the D stinks there's so many holes.  As a result I think they try hard to extend SV.

Maybe the games can be played on paper, we would be much better off.

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1 hour ago, HellOnICE said:

in 2020-2021 - he'll be 29 going into that season, beginning likely a 6-8 year deal at 6M. Greene's contract isn't an issue, nor does anyone know if they are trying to get rid of him. I don't know if Sami is worth an 8 year deal, or 7 from someone else, but I think at 29, he's got some time before he falls off a cliff. I'd be willing to sign him this offseason to 6/6 and if he doesn't want that, you can trade him next season.  I'm willing to take that risk. He could definitely be a huge staple of the second/third pairing when we start to contend. Veterans are important, and Vatanen can assume that role. It's quite possible next season, he's the oldest D. 

I have little faith that McLeod will be better than Wood. What has given you that hope? I still keep Wood, unless we get a good return.

 

 

 

 

I just don’t think Vatanen is good enough to justify that kind of commitment.  He’s a second pairing guy on a lot of teams and especially teams that are Cup contenders.  It’s not so much the money, as the fact that coaches feel compelled to play guys according to their salary and experience, and this is especially the case with defensemen.

McLeod isn’t tearing up the AHL, but his numbers are pretty solid for his age and better than Wood’s AHL numbers, although I’d have to check that.  They’re both fast, except McLeod is probably more skilled. Wood is the type of guy who is more useful to a good team, and you could sell high on him while we have someone waiting in the wings who probably fills the same role, but might end up being better.

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Greene is only a problem because he's being played as a top pairing when he's now a third

Sammys only issue is he's a 2nd pairing being asked to save the world.. the main issue is lack of 2 quality top defensemen..

I would seriously consider trading hall and mojo at the deadline if healthy.. this rebuilt just took a serious hit  and looks to be pushed back 2 - 3years  not sure taylor is buying in now

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42 minutes ago, EdgeControl said:

Greene is only a problem because he's being played as a top pairing when he's now a third

If he was failing to cover guys and turning over the puck as a 3rd pair guy, I’d still be upset. 

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45 minutes ago, EdgeControl said:

Greene is only a problem because he's being played as a top pairing when he's now a third

Sammys only issue is he's a 2nd pairing being asked to save the world.. the main issue is lack of 2 quality top defensemen..

I would seriously consider trading hall and mojo at the deadline if healthy.. this rebuilt just took a serious hit  and looks to be pushed back 2 - 3years  not sure taylor is buying in now

 

1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

If he was failing to cover guys and turning over the puck as a 3rd pair guy, I’d still be upset. 

The coach has shown zero signs of using him in a reduced role, even though the writing is spray painted in a giant mural right in front of him. The loyalty to him is astounding

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1 hour ago, EdgeControl said:

I would seriously consider trading hall and mojo at the deadline if healthy

There's no way you trade Hall this year, he's got another year to go before he's a UFA and he's a guy you build around. If we can't sign him long term before the end of the next season then yeah I'd be ok with trading him. 

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Just now, Satans Hockey said:

There's no way you trade Hall this year, he's got another year to go before he's a UFA and he's a guy you build around. If we can't sign him long term before the end of the next season then yeah I'd be ok with trading him. 

I agree. Although, a team might pay more if he’s under control for an extra year...

Personally I wouldn’t do it until every effort to get him to sign an extension has been exhausted. And we can’t even start that until the Summer.  

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

I agree. Although, a team might pay more if he’s under control for an extra year...

Personally I wouldn’t do it until every effort to get him to sign an extension has been exhausted. And we can’t even start that until the Summer.  

Also got to mention it would result in people not renewing their season tickets for next season for a good amount of people.

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1 hour ago, Satans Hockey said:

Also got to mention it would result in people not renewing their season tickets for next season for a good amount of people.

if you dont resign him until his contract terminates then you are looking at giving him 8 yrs as a 29/30 YO @ $10/11 mil per

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