GDT: Devils @ Maple Leafs, 11/9/18 7:00pm, MSG+

[jagknife]

10 minutes ago, mikepeluso8 said:

Youuuuuu ranggggggggggg.  The party is over.  Heads must roll after this debacle.  This is an utter disaster and disgrace and Hynes needs to go.

 

sorry. Have at it.  Let’s hear all your backlash. Somethings gotta change and you start with the HC. See ya Hynes. 

SOMETHING has to be done. If only just firing Nasradine cause of how fvcking atrocious the defense is

[devlman]

The defensive zone game is so horrid right now. Every defenseman tonight looked amateurish. Forwards are running around trying to do someone else’s job in the d-zone. Seney’s advanced metrics must be atrocious because I only see him when the opposing team is barraging us in our zone.

[hit the post]

Its going to be a long season if this keeps up.

[PacificDevil]

Something realistic to do - recall Zacha and JQ, put Zacha between Bratt and Johansson and JQ with Zajac and Wood seemed liked these lines with some chemistry earlier (pre-season, early season respectively)

[Triumph]

6 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

John Moore wasn’t exactly a superstar but that’s a non-insignificant subtraction from our team. 

John Moore was a below-average defenseman.  He played a lot of minutes below-averagely.  The team doesn't really miss him.

[titans04]

Toe Blake doesn't have enough turd polish in his arsenal. 

[SterioDesign]

Few things, we had a run like this last year in January. Everyone here was calling for KK to be shipped to Africa in a container. We were not making the playoffs for sure, people wanted people fired etc etc But we made it.

That being said i don't think we're making it this year. But also it's important to remember that us making the playoffs last year was a HUGE overachievement and it's mainly cause Floride dug themselves a huge hole earlier in the season. At the end of the year, they were the better team and they should have been in, not us. 

We're simply not a super good team yet, I mentioned it the other day... When Shero took over, the team was HORRIBLE, oldest, slowest team in the league, no top prospects, no assets, no real core to build around... almost NOTHING.

Is it realistic to expect Shero to turn that team around that fast? with what? How? It's already a miracle that we landed Hall & Palmieri. Zacha was the last Conte disaster. McLeod was just after the big drop of talent in the draft that year.. As for the market, not every player wants to play in NJ, not sure any players available this summer would have made a big difference either. 

 

[munichdevil]

2 hours ago, Triumph said:

John Moore was a below-average defenseman.  He played a lot of minutes below-averagely.  The team doesn't really miss him.

And yet, he is playing 19 minutes a game for Boston and leads them in +/-.  Moore is a better player than Lovejoy, Greene or Mueller any day of the year. 

[Marshall]

2 hours ago, munichdevil said:

And yet, he is playing 19 minutes a game for Boston and leads them in +/-.  Moore is a better player than Lovejoy, Greene or Mueller any day of the year. 

Sometimes below average dmen play above average for a period of time. Keeping him was a non-starter considering the deal he got from the Bruins. He's getting a 96,7% save percentage while on ice and if there's one thing we learned during his time here, it's that he's not a guy who drives that. At all. 

[slasher72]

4 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Few things, we had a run like this last year in January. Everyone here was calling for KK to be shipped to Africa in a container. We were not making the playoffs for sure, people wanted people fired etc etc But we made it.

That being said i don't think we're making it this year. But also it's important to remember that us making the playoffs last year was a HUGE overachievement and it's mainly cause Floride dug themselves a huge hole earlier in the season. At the end of the year, they were the better team and they should have been in, not us. 

We're simply not a super good team yet, I mentioned it the other day... When Shero took over, the team was HORRIBLE, oldest, slowest team in the league, no top prospects, no assets, no real core to build around... almost NOTHING.

Is it realistic to expect Shero to turn that team around that fast? with what? How? It's already a miracle that we landed Hall & Palmieri. Zacha was the last Conte disaster. McLeod was just after the big drop of talent in the draft that year.. As for the market, not every player wants to play in NJ, not sure any players available this summer would have made a big difference either. 

 

Very important points to keep in mind. Lou and Conte destroyed this team through terrible drafting, stupid and bad contracts, and total disregard for the farm system. Lou left Shero with a total mess to deal with before landing with organizations that were well on their way to contending, making himself look like a genius in the process.  

But now that the damage is done though, Shero needs to right this ship and stop screwing around with ex-Penguins and Wilkes-Barre AHL'ers and make some good signings. We cant really make any decent trades because we have very little assets, so he has to make smart signings and most importantly...build through the draft.  Need to address the D and add some muscle across the board (not Lou's version aka Barry Tallackson's of the world,  but skillfull, fast, large players) and have to make smart decisions on draft day (our chances increased when Conte was shown the door). I know it's easier said than done but we need to follow what Tampa and Columbus have done....those are two organizations I would try to model after. 

 

 

 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

At least we have a GM who I have faith in to make the right moves and put this situation right and there are a lot of games left to go. 

Ray is going to have to start working on a plan to convince Hall that this is just a bump in the road. 

[mfitz804]

9 hours ago, Triumph said:

You forgot 'create narrative' there.  Most of the 'servicable veterans' who left weren't on the team most of the year.

But they belonged at the NHL level. 

[Jerzey]

On the bright side, McLeod had a 3 point night last night. Maybe he’s finally finding his game and could be a call up soon. He’d still probably only be a 3c at best at this point though. We really need a 2c and if we can’t count on Zacha to be that guy this year Shero has to make a move. 

[2ELIAS6]

11 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Subtract serviceable veterans, add AHLers. 

who did we really lose that we didn't have for the majority of last season? we acquired Maroon, that waste Grabner and someone I can't think of right this second after we knew we were really making a playoff push. The only player we really lost off the roster that I can think of right now is gibbons?

[jagknife]

8 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Few things, we had a run like this last year in January. Everyone here was calling for KK to be shipped to Africa in a container. We were not making the playoffs for sure, people wanted people fired etc etc But we made it.

That being said i don't think we're making it this year. But also it's important to remember that us making the playoffs last year was a HUGE overachievement and it's mainly cause Floride dug themselves a huge hole earlier in the season. At the end of the year, they were the better team and they should have been in, not us. 

We're simply not a super good team yet, I mentioned it the other day... When Shero took over, the team was HORRIBLE, oldest, slowest team in the league, no top prospects, no assets, no real core to build around... almost NOTHING.

Is it realistic to expect Shero to turn that team around that fast? with what? How? It's already a miracle that we landed Hall & Palmieri. Zacha was the last Conte disaster. McLeod was just after the big drop of talent in the draft that year.. As for the market, not every player wants to play in NJ, not sure any players available this summer would have made a big difference either. 

 

Okay, I’ll bite. Exiting the Detroit game on the 27th of December last year, the team was 22-9-5. Then either they came screaming back to Earth from the Buffalo game until with losing streaks of 6 4 and 4 by the end of January. March is what got this team into the post season paired with Florida’s own snap back to reality. The difference though (and when I say my perception is cloudy at very best, I mean it’s really goddamn cloudy so if I’m wrong my bad) they were at least competitive during those 14 losses from the end of December until February. Tonight, just from the 3rd alone, they had no fight, other than Nose trying to be tough when the game was WAY out of reach. They looked pathetic against Ottawa, and I don’t even have to tell you how badly the Bolts game was. I didn’t see the Detroit nor Islanders games, but one great game against Pitt doesn’t make up for 3 of 5 being pathetic.

Shero has absolutely done a phenomenal job of fielding a competitive roster. But that doesn’t mean he’s beyond reproach. You and Tri both pointed it out in ‘15 (yeah, i’m that big of a dork i went back) that one of his biggest weaknesses is evaluating defensive talent and preferring defensive dmen. That detail is glaring right now. What could he have done? Dunno, I think at least being in on de Haan, while a risk, would still have been an improvement, of course he’d have to sign here. But Ray was pretty transparent with who he chased and defenders weren’t it. Instead we got Eric Gryba. Yeah... Other options would have been trades but I think it’s fair to assume any trade that was made this summer that would have been east to east instead of east to west would have cost us significantly more than that what was traded so kudos to Ray for the restraint there. It’s still a rebuild and we’re probably seeing the team’s true potential instead of the overachieving of last season. Which brings me to my next point:

If a coach receives praise for a team overperforming, why does it feel as though this one in particular is absolved of anything negative when the team underperforms by some? They had a letdown game after the big Pit win, those absolutely happen. What shouldn’t have happened was last night. That team came out with that limp-dicked effort and got absolutely smoked. There was no reverting of a “win the game” to “just win the period” mindset, they just crumbled and only a handful put out effort. Last year and even earlier this season (yes I know it’s only 14 games old) they showed resiliency. Recently, not so much.

Now, of course the players have to be accountable as well. Outside of the top line, Zajac and Boyle, the rest for the most part have left much to be desired. Noeson got his million and change and turned into an absolute passenger since they crossed back over the Atlantic. Coleman spent too much time with Zacha in Europe and seems to have contracted cantfinish!tis (sarcasm, to a point). MoJo, man even though he’s healthy, he’s still not at the level Ray traded for. Lovejoy remembered that the season ends in an odd year and reverted back to his 16-17 self. Greene got older and it shows. At least Severson and Butcher are going in the right direction. Vats I haven’t noticed too much this year so that’s good, I guess?

TLDR: everyone, from the players up to the GM should be accountable for the sh!tshow we’re seeing right now. I personally think the true identity of this team is somewhere in the middle of the garbage we’re seeing now and the sh!t hot one we saw games 1-4. NO ONE should be above criticism.

(NOTE: this pose was written in like 6 sessions to feed the two kids, and cook for the wife, and feed the dogs and on lack of sleep, yadda yadda yadda. If it doesn’t make sense, oh well, cheers)

[jagknife]

31 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

who did we really lose that we didn't have for the majority of last season? we acquired Maroon, that waste Grabner and someone I can't think of right this second after we knew we were really making a playoff push. The only player we really lost off the roster that I can think of right now is gibbons?

You might be thinking of Lack. Vats was November so I don’t think that’s who you’re blanking on.

i also think if we had Moore, we wouldn’t be witnessing Lovejoy’s regression as much. But I DEFINITEY didn’t want him back at the terms boston gave him. fvck that noise.

Edited November 10, 2018 by jagknife

[2ELIAS6]

28 minutes ago, jagknife said:

You might be thinking of Lack. Vats was November so I don’t think that’s who you’re blanking on.

i also think if we had Moore, we wouldn’t be witnessing Lovejoy’s regression as much. But I DEFINITEY didn’t want him back at the terms boston gave him. fvck that noise.

I was just trying to say, I don't get how they could've regressed this much from last year the team is more or less the same.. at the end of the day someone should have been acquired during the off season in some shape or form to better a position on this team and absolutely nothing was done. We brought back Drew Stafford LOL

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, jagknife said:

Okay, I’ll bite. Exiting the Detroit game on the 27th of December last year, the team was 22-9-5. Then either they came screaming back to Earth from the Buffalo game until with losing streaks of 6 4 and 4 by the end of January. March is what got this team into the post season paired with Florida’s own snap back to reality. The difference though (and when I say my perception is cloudy at very best, I mean it’s really goddamn cloudy so if I’m wrong my bad) they were at least competitive during those 14 losses from the end of December until February. Tonight, just from the 3rd alone, they had no fight, other than Nose trying to be tough when the game was WAY out of reach. They looked pathetic against Ottawa, and I don’t even have to tell you how badly the Bolts game was. I didn’t see the Detroit nor Islanders games, but one great game against Pitt doesn’t make up for 3 of 5 being pathetic.

Shero has absolutely done a phenomenal job of fielding a competitive roster. But that doesn’t mean he’s beyond reproach. You and Tri both pointed it out in ‘15 (yeah, i’m that big of a dork i went back) that one of his biggest weaknesses is evaluating defensive talent and preferring defensive dmen. That detail is glaring right now. What could he have done? Dunno, I think at least being in on de Haan, while a risk, would still have been an improvement, of course he’d have to sign here. But Ray was pretty transparent with who he chased and defenders weren’t it. Instead we got Eric Gryba. Yeah... Other options would have been trades but I think it’s fair to assume any trade that was made this summer that would have been east to east instead of east to west would have cost us significantly more than that what was traded so kudos to Ray for the restraint there. It’s still a rebuild and we’re probably seeing the team’s true potential instead of the overachieving of last season. Which brings me to my next point:

If a coach receives praise for a team overperforming, why does it feel as though this one in particular is absolved of anything negative when the team underperforms by some? They had a letdown game after the big Pit win, those absolutely happen. What shouldn’t have happened was last night. That team came out with that limp-dicked effort and got absolutely smoked. There was no reverting of a “win the game” to “just win the period” mindset, they just crumbled and only a handful put out effort. Last year and even earlier this season (yes I know it’s only 14 games old) they showed resiliency. Recently, not so much.

Now, of course the players have to be accountable as well. Outside of the top line, Zajac and Boyle, the rest for the most part have left much to be desired. Noeson got his million and change and turned into an absolute passenger since they crossed back over the Atlantic. Coleman spent too much time with Zacha in Europe and seems to have contracted cantfinish!tis (sarcasm, to a point). MoJo, man even though he’s healthy, he’s still not at the level Ray traded for. Lovejoy remembered that the season ends in an odd year and reverted back to his 16-17 self. Greene got older and it shows. At least Severson and Butcher are going in the right direction. Vats I haven’t noticed too much this year so that’s good, I guess?

TLDR: everyone, from the players up to the GM should be accountable for the sh!tshow we’re seeing right now. I personally think the true identity of this team is somewhere in the middle of the garbage we’re seeing now and the sh!t hot one we saw games 1-4. NO ONE should be above criticism.

(NOTE: this pose was written in like 6 sessions to feed the two kids, and cook for the wife, and feed the dogs and on lack of sleep, yadda yadda yadda. If it doesn’t make sense, oh well, cheers)

15

I never said that Shero is above criticism. I pointing out that some of the criticism is exaggerated and shortsighted. Very very unrealistic expectations and even ungrateful at times IMO. It's important to look at things in perspective and be fair. I do think we should have gone for Skinner for example, for what he went for, we 100% should of been in the mix, I'm not 100% sure if we were or not. Shero said he didn't go for De Haan, but De Haan had a big injury and his status was up in the air, it was a gamble. But say we land Skinner? best case scenario we lose 6-2 yesterday? 6-3? What if we do sign De Haan and that he never fully the same after that surgery? Look at the Grabner fiasco, on paper he was perfect for our team... imagine if we would have signed him for 4-5 years? in the summer instead of trading for him? it's always a gamble and any moves Shero could have done this summer was not a guarantee, unless we could of signed Tavares 

What's truly truly funny is when I'm reading comments about Shero "not doing anything, sitting on his ass" (when shero doesn't have a track record or reputation to do that at all) and those comments are from the same people who once told me "You truly think Lou is there sitting on his ass not doing anything? or "you truly think he's not trying? we don't know what's going on behind closed doors"... even when it was very well documented and that he was known for those things.

And my point with the bad streak in January is that team go through bad streaks at random time during the year. I think we may be forgetting how bad we were at times but still getting wins, Hall got the Hart for a reason, nobody else was showing up. I do agree that we look disinterested this year but i'm sure we looked the same last year. Right now, we as fans are bummed and everything is negative. So we're looking at it with that lens on.

My biggest problem with this team not doing well this year is that it might scare away some potential signings for the summer (which we desperately need), I don't care much if we don't make the playoffs as long as we're showing that we're trending up and a good place to play, something players would want to be a part of. Which to be fair, earlier this season that's the feeling we had. 

A theory for Hynes is that, just like Bob Hartley in Calgary, you can whip a young team and get them to commit and go all out for a season and overachieve. Doing it again doesn't work quite often cause as it's been mentioned... players may become desensitized to the message and everything. I'm still not saying Hynes should go, players seems to love him but if the team keep on not showing competitiveness soon then maybe i'll join the bandwagon

Edited November 10, 2018 by SterioDesign

[jagknife]

9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I never said that Shero is above criticism. I pointing out that some of the criticism is exaggerated and shortsighted. Very very unrealistic expectations and even ungrateful at times IMO. It's important to look at things in perspective and be fair. I do think we should have gone for Skinner for example, for what he went for, we 100% should of been in the mix, I'm not 100% sure if we were or not. Shero said he didn't go for De Haan, but De Haan had a big injury and his status was up in the air, it was a gamble. But say we land Skinner? best case scenario we lose 6-2 yesterday? 6-3? What if we do sign De Haan and that he never fully the same after that surgery? 

What's truly truly funny is when I'm reading comments about Shero "not doing anything, sitting on his ass" (when shero doesn't have a track record or reputation to do that at all) and those comments are from the same people who once told me "You truly think Lou is there sitting on his ass not doing anything? or "you truly think he's not trying? we don't know what's going on behind closed doors"... even when it was very well documented and that he was known for those things.

And my point with the bad streak in January is that team go through bad streaks at random time during the year. I think we may be forgetting how bad we were at times but still getting wins, Hall got the Hart for a reason, nobody else was showing up. I do agree that we look disinterested this year but i'm sure we looked the same last year. Right we as fans are bummed and everything is negative. So we're looking at it with that lens on.

My biggest problem with this team not doing well this year is that it might scare away some potential signings for the summer (which we desperately need), I don't care much if we don't make the playoffs as long as we're showing that we're trending up and a good place to play, something players would want to be a part of. Which to be fair, earlier this season that's the feeling we had. 

A theory for Hynes is that, just like Bob Hartley in Calgary, you can whip a young team and get them to commit and go all out for a season and overachieve. Doing it again doesn't work quite often cause as it's been mentioned... players may become desensitized to the message and everything. I'm still not saying Hynes should go, players seems to love him but if the team keep on not showing competitiveness soon then maybe i'll join the bandwagon

Great reply, by the way.

I can almost garuentee (I finally spelled that right on the first damn try, no big deal) your bolded statement is why a lot of people are freaking out over the current skid. We can all agree attracting people to jersey has always been a problem, even when they’ve been doing well. Now, you have a rebuilding team moving in the right direction based on the success of last season, but are now looking exponentially worse than last year. (It May not be the case, but on the surface it seems that way lately) Couple innocent performance with the perception of doing nothing all summer and you’ll get the negativity to as far as panic over the fear of losing Hall who has only played for losing teams save for last season.

There’s absolutely time to turn this season around. But rebuilding teams aren’t exactly Mecca’s for high end free agents. Shero has his work cut out for him, but he needs the help of the staff to the players. And I, like you, think Hynes isn’t quite the fall guy just yet, but man is the team’s performance and effort making it really hard not to.

Edited November 10, 2018 by jagknife

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Great reply, by the way.

I can almost garuentee (I finally spelled that right on the first damn try, no big deal) your bolded statement is why a lot of people are freaking out over the current skid. We can all agree attracting people to jersey has always been a problem, even when they’ve been doing well. Now, you have a rebuilding team moving in the right direction based on the success of last season, but are now looking exponentially worse than last year. (It May not be the case, but on the surface it seems that way lately) Couple innocent performance with the perception of doing nothing all summer and you’ll get the negativity to as far as panic over the fear of losing Hall who has only played for losing teams save for last season.

There’s absolutely time to turn this season around. But rebuilding teams aren’t exactly Mecca’s for high end free agents. Shero has his work cut out for him, but he needs the help of the staff to the players. And I, like you, think Hynes isn’t quite the fall guy just yet, but man is the team’s performance and effort making it really hard not to.

What bolded statement? haha

[HellOnICE]

We knew and know the roster has issues. We relied on young guys stepping up and claiming jobs, and it hasn't happened like last year.

So staying patient is the right move for now. I'd like to see Zacha back up because I think in the preseason him/90/Bratt had a good run, plus we seem to be missing Zacha's D out there. It's not a perfect situation, but better than what's going on since we sent him down.

This isn't on Hynes, not really Shero either, we're patiently building a team here - this is going to happen. Stay the course, wait for the right move to come along.

We need a 2C and a reliable D out there.

[SterioDesign]

Zacha not stepping up right now is a big problem and leaving a big hole. But like i said many times... that's the last time Conte will hurt us.

Edited November 10, 2018 by SterioDesign

[SterioDesign]

In hard times like these though I'm REALLY trying to keep a promise that I made to myself.

Back to like 2015 when our team was at its worst, slowest, oldest, boring, no talent, no future, trending down with nothing to look forward to for the future, looking at old vets getting away with murder on the ice while rookies (our only potential chance at any success would be benched for any mistakes). I promised myself that if we can turn it around and have a young team trending up, that I would endure sh!t performance. That I'd rather watch a bunch of young guys with their full potential ahead of them failing in order to learn, than a bunch of over the hill guys signed just to patch holes just doing what they can with what they have left in the tank. That's such a bad investment. 

This is partially what we're looking at now. Butcher is still young and learning, but he's a bright spot on our team. IF we ever become contenders he'll be a big part of that. 

Sadly though this forum is filled with entitled fans with a "what have you done for me lately attitude" and being very reactionary. Literally weeks ago Hynes was an amazing coach to some folks now they want him fired after a few bad games lol

Edited November 10, 2018 by SterioDesign

[titans04]

17 hours ago, jagknife said:

With the amount of tapes Dano wants to burn, maybe that’s why we suck?

Yet another California wildfire in the making.

[HellOnICE]

How much would Duncan Keith cost?