Jump to content

GDT: Devils @ Maple Leafs, 11/9/18 7:00pm, MSG+


Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, titans04 said:

I knew Hall had a career year as well but I just looked up the numbers and he's never had a season remotely close to his goal and pts total in his career. Probably unrealistic to think he was going to do it again.  If he had an average year last season I think we would of come up short last year.

The thing with Hall's season is that it wasn't that much of a change from his norm. He had 45 5v5 points in 17/18, he had 51 in 13/14 in similar time on ice. Where things really happened was on the power play, where he had 36 and his previous career high was 17. I've been on the "unrealistic to expect same/similar"-side of things for much of the summer but I didn't realise how the numbers in the different gamestates broke down. If he's in the same spot on the PP (lots of touches, chief playmaker on the unit) and he's himself at 5v5 with a improved Nico...I think it's quite doable to repeat what he did, or come close.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 234
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Got you  

I still think this is massively ironic coming from you the way you spoke about Lou towards the end of his tenure. 

Posted Images

3 hours ago, Marshall said:

The thing with Hall's season is that it wasn't that much of a change from his norm. He had 45 5v5 points in 17/18, he had 51 in 13/14 in similar time on ice. Where things really happened was on the power play, where he had 36 and his previous career high was 17. I've been on the "unrealistic to expect same/similar"-side of things for much of the summer but I didn't realise how the numbers in the different gamestates broke down. If he's in the same spot on the PP (lots of touches, chief playmaker on the unit) and he's himself at 5v5 with a improved Nico...I think it's quite doable to repeat what he did, or come close.

Even with a less-than-dominating start, he's on pace for 87 points. I remember reading that he changed his training intensity a lot after his first season here. Shero had sat him down to have a conversation about what it takes to compete in this league.  It's possible 75-90 is his new normal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

I am not trying to do anything. And I don't believe you were reactionary, if anything you were the model of consistency. I should have stopped the bold at the "what have you done for me lately part". 

You may respect Lou but you really didn't show in on here and the level of constant criticism was highly unnecessary.

Everyone could tell that Lou was done here , but most were sad that it had to end is such a fashion and showed the gratitude for all the banners hanging in the rafters. Whether you intended to or not you came across as vitriolic and celebratory when Lou moved on.  

Again the "what have you done for me lately" thing doesn't work either. To me praising Shero and Hynes or any players just to turn on them weeks later is that definition. A Complete 180. Which i never did a 180 with Lou as i was always annoyed by those things and would call them out, i was just calling them out more cause they were happening more frequently. It was more of an "I told you so" than anything. Again, way back I always said his methods were a terrible approach and we dodged many bullets (like Elias just deciding to re-sign with us) cause the team was competitive so losing assets and letting guy walk was not as much as a big deal on the surface, but it kept adding up and led to the team not being competitive and having no assets to turn it around. And his refusal to adapt to situations was not helping either. Which was a long and slow-building frustration seeing it coming for over a decade and finally happening, which is why I was so critical cause it could have been avoided to some extent, and it only got worst cause posters kept on arguing about it with me as if I was insane for thinking that, so as it kept on happening obviously I was going to point it out. 

As for me celebrating when Lou moved on, I don't remember celebrating much, I was VERY happy to get the one GM I wanted though.

Also, there's a big difference with a GM taking a wrong systematic approach and a GM taking a gamble that doesn't pan out. And I'm totally willing to give credits to Lou for example, signing an old Sykora, it was a good move even though nobody was a big fan of him bringing back ex-Devils to patch a hole and on paper Shero signing Grabner was a great move but ended up being a terrible move that didn't pan out at all.

Edited by SterioDesign
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

SD, just to be clear, there's a big difference between wanting Hynes' head on a platter, and wondering what a more aggressive GM like Shero will do if this sudden shocking run of flat-out non-competitive play isn't just a freak isolated occurrence (especially with an accomplished and decorated HC in Q right there for the taking...his presence is clearly a game-changer).  I think Hynes is doing everything that he can to try to get the Devils going again...right now part of the problem is that he doesn't have the luxury of home practices to try to work on the deficiencies to the level that he'd like to I'm sure.  This trip from hell can't really end soon enough, on that count.

I do feel that Shero thought that this year's Devils was a playoff team.  I've outlined the reasons why...even though there's been some complaints about the roster, he was clearly expecting improvements from within, which I get.  Zajac's offensive resurgence from last season (after a very slow start) has carried into this year.  I don't blame Shero one bit for thinking he'd get more production from Palms and MoJo (due to health), and Hischier and Bratt (due to having a year under their belts...ditto Butcher, especially from a "more polished" standpoint).  Unfortunately, Bratt suffered that freak injury, so it will be a while before we know about him. 

At this point, here's what I think the Devils need to do:  begin to explore an exit strategy for Greene, and not count on either Zacha or McLeod for significant offensive contributions down the line.  I think Zacha could be reinvented as a defensive specialist, but I don't think the Devils are there yet...I think they still think he can be saved as an offensive contributor...I wish I could see that, but I just don't at this point.  McLeod is obviously still very young, but I just don't get the feeling that he's going to do much with the big club here.  I also agree completely with sundstrom's take on building a team...which is why I would LOVE to see Shero eventually take a real shot at Nylander.  But even if that doesn't happen, I still think Shero can and will find ways to improve the Devils in-season, if the general malaise continues.

Well i agree with everything there so im not sure where's there's a disagreement with what i said? lol 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You made it sound like a number of Devils fans want Hynes gone due to this skid.  I was stating why I don't think that's the case.  The rest was more just a post not really directed to anyone in particular.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Again the "what have you done for me lately" thing doesn't work either. To me praising Shero and Hynes or any players just to turn on them weeks later is that definition. A Complete 180. Which i never did a 180 with Lou as i was always annoyed by those things and would call them out, i was just calling them out more cause they were happening more frequently. It was more of an "I told you so" than anything. Again, way back I always said his methods were a terrible approach and we dodged many bullets (like Elias just deciding to re-sign with us) cause the team was competitive so losing assets and letting guy walk was not as much as a big deal on the surface, but it kept adding up and led to the team not being competitive and having no assets to turn it around. And his refusal to adapt to situations was not helping either. Which was a long and slow-building frustration seeing it coming for over a decade and finally happening, which is why I was so critical cause it could have been avoided to some extent, and it only got worst cause posters kept on arguing about it with me as if I was insane for thinking that, so as it kept on happening obviously I was going to point it out. 

As for me celebrating when Lou moved on, I don't remember celebrating much, I was VERY happy to get the one GM I wanted though.

Also, there's a big difference with a GM taking a wrong systematic approach and a GM taking a gamble that doesn't pan out. And I'm totally willing to give credits to Lou for example, signing an old Sykora, it was a good move even though nobody was a big fan of him bringing back ex-Devils to patch a hole and on paper Shero signing Grabner was a great move but ended up being a terrible move that didn't pan out at all.

That's not an example of " what have you done for me lately" that's you just not liking Lou's methods. Which I agree you were very consistent on. 

Whether you agreed with his methods or not i think you showed a level of ingratitude to the man who made this franchise what it is and brought 3 championships, that's all. 

I mean I can't tell you how to feel, if you don't like Lou and his methods fine. But saying you can't believe that people are questioning Ray and his methods after the guy has only been in post for three years and doesn't have 3 championships under his belt with this team still seems ironic to me. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

That's not an example of " what have you done for me lately" that's you just not liking Lou's methods. Which I agree you were very consistent on. 

Whether you agreed with his methods or not i think you showed a level of ingratitude to the man who made this franchise what it is and brought 3 championships, that's all. 

I mean I can't tell you how to feel, if you don't like Lou and his methods fine. But saying you can't believe that people are questioning Ray and his methods after the guy has only been in post for three years and doesn't have 3 championships under his belt with this team still seems ironic to me. 

Again it's not what I said. I pointed out earlier that some are saying that Ray "did nothing", "sat on his ass" etc etc 

and I feel you're digging here just to find something that could be ironic to pin on me lol I usually explain precisely why I'm saying what im saying. 

It's pretty straightforward. And I pointed this out countless times, Ray has historically always done well with his top UFAs either trading them if they wanted to move on (Staal for example), gave them an ultimatum to sign now or be traded (Letang for example) etc. He never failed cause he had a flawless approach assuring he always had full control over his assets, so for someone to question him on his ability to deal with Hall is literally based on nothing. Now, someone afraid of Lou letting an UFA walk has all the reasons in the world to be worried based on his track record and methods. It's pretty basic, doesn't mean it's going to happen but there's a reason. When it comes to trades, both had wonderful trade and both had terrible trades. So for you to say that we should question Ray on certain things as if he never proved anything is also silly cause he certainly did prove many things.

Again it's all about context, when Lou took over the devils, Broten, Muller, Maclean, Verbeek, Dano etc were already all there and on the way up. He obviously built an amazing team around that with amazing trades like Nieds, getting Stevens, trading down to get Brodeur etc etc etc But he started off with a team in a wayyy better shape than what Shero started with. And they missed the playoffs the year after that then it took a few years before they became true contenders.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Again it's not what I said. I pointed out earlier that some are saying that Ray "did nothing", "sat on his ass" etc etc 

and I feel you're digging here just to find something that could be ironic to pin on me lol I usually explain precisely why I'm saying what im saying. 

It's pretty straightforward. And I pointed this out countless times, Ray has historically always done well with his top UFAs either trading them if they wanted to move on (Staal for example), gave them an ultimatum to sign now or be traded (Letang for example) etc. He never failed cause he had a flawless approach assuring he always had full control over his assets, so for someone to question him on his ability to deal with Hall is literally based on nothing. Now, someone afraid of Lou letting an UFA walk has all the reasons in the world to be worried based on his track record and methods. It's pretty basic, doesn't mean it's going to happen but there's a reason. When it comes to trades, both had wonderful trade and both had terrible trades. So for you to say that we should question Ray on certain things as if he never proved anything is also silly cause he certainly did prove many things.

Again it's all about context, when Lou took over the devils, Broten, Muller, Maclean, Verbeek, Dano etc were already all there and on the way up. He obviously built an amazing team around that with amazing trades like Nieds, getting Stevens, trading down to get Brodeur etc etc etc But he started off with a team in a wayyy better shape than what Shero started with. And they missed the playoffs the year after that then it took a few years before they became true contenders.

 

It's really not taken any digging. 

Even now you are massively underselling Lou's achievements. And again you are just circling back to the one point you can't really look past in Lou's tenure which is his handling of Parise. But that is history, so let's move on and focus on the sh!t show that is developing this season. 

And just to point out, I think Ray is doing an incredible job and I have total faith in him to make the correct moves to keep the team moving. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

It's really not taken any digging. 

Even now you are massively underselling Lou's achievements. And again you are just circling back to the one point you can't really look past in Lou's tenure which is his handling of Parise. But that is history, so let's move on and focus on the sh!t show that is developing this season. 

And just to point out, I think Ray is doing an incredible job and I have total faith in him to make the correct moves to keep the team moving. 

I'm not underselling anything I'm being specific to what I've been referring to when I say I was pointing things out. And no it's not just Parise. Elias, Gomez, Rafalski, Nieds, etc etc etc etc etc My whole point is pretty simple "there's no need to be worried about someone doing something if that person doesn't have an history of falling in that department" thats it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.