Fire Hynes

[sundstrom]

the issue with firing hynes is who you have to replace him - he goes, nas goes with him. kowalski isn't an NHL head coach nor is Greer. so they need to have someone ready to hire. and that's also a big step back for shero. 

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

the issue with firing hynes is who you have to replace him - he goes, nas goes with him. kowalski isn't an NHL head coach nor is Greer. so they need to have someone ready to hire. and that's also a big step back for shero. 

Kowalsky should have been fired at intermission.  

There’s Quenneville or perhaps Vinaugt.

[sundstrom]

quenneville has already said he's not coming back this year and not going with a "rebuilding team". 

i saw enough of vigneault burying young guys to know he is absolutely NOT what we want.

[Nicomo]

28 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

quenneville has already said he's not coming back this year and not going with a "rebuilding team". 

i saw enough of vigneault burying young guys to know he is absolutely NOT what we want.

Didn’t know Q said that. There goes my hope for an upgrade. 

I’m honestly at my lowest point as far as my sports teams go since before we got Hall. 

[Devilsfan118]

I don't know who's out there, but GM's have to have at least one or two guys in mind at all times don't they?

I don't think Hynes survives until Christmas if we continue to lose like this.

51 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

i saw enough of vigneault burying young guys to know he is absolutely NOT what we want.

Yeah agreed - hard pass on Vigneault.  Doesn't seem to be the coach for a young team. 

[SterioDesign]

54 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

If only there was a three time stanley cup champion coach who just recently got fired.

Thing is... how good is he really without a Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp all in their prime 

[SterioDesign]

Just now, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

I’d venture he’s better than last place in the fvcking league with a 2017 playoff team.

To start we're not last place in the fvcking league (we're actually just as close to be last in the league than being in the playoffs right now)... and eventhough yes we made the playoffs last year... anyone looking at the situation wouldn't call us a true playoffs team. Florida was a way way better team than we were and only missed by a point cause they dug themselves a hole early in the season an ran out of time. And we made it with a career year from Hall and guys rallying around a dude beating cancer. We overachieved big time.

 

[Nicomo]

32 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Thing is... how good is he really without a Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp all in their prime 

He had a lot of success in St. Louis. Didn’t he take the Blues to the playoffs like 7 straight seasons? 

[SterioDesign]

Just now, Nicomo said:

He had a lot of success in St. Louis. Didn’t he take the Blues to the playoffs like 7 straight seasons? 

Sure but would he be called a 3 times cup winner without having that insane core to work with?

I'm obviously not saying he's a bad coach and i wouldn't mind having him in NJ. But I'm still asking

[Daniel]

Can Shero at least rehire Conte so he can fire him again, perhaps getting ejected from the building in the style Axel Foley at Victor Maitland’s office?

[SterioDesign]

42 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Can Shero at least rehire Conte so he can fire him again, perhaps getting ejected from the building in the style Axel Foley at Victor Maitland’s office?

that's not bad enough...

how 'bout hiring his whole family... then fire them all right in front of him? 

[DevsMan84]

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Thing is... how good is he really without a Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp all in their prime 

How good would Shero have been in Pitt without the talent that he had to work with?  And that's not to knock Shero, because even though some of his more recent "on paper" moves haven't worked out lately (MoJo, Grabner...I was in favor of both deals), I still have a lot of faith in him. 

Really hard to win without an impressive core, and some bona-fide stars.  But we've seen our fair share of really good teams that never ever get over the hump.  Quenneville managed to do it three times...not saying that he was the sole reason, and who knows, maybe there's another coach out there that could've gotten similar results...but the fact remains, he DID it.  I don't think too much should be taken away from him. 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Jerzey]

13 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

At least they aren’t falling for the banana in the tailpipe.

[Nicomo]

49 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

How good would Shero have been in Pitt without the talent that he had to work with?  And that's not to knock Shero, because even though some of his more recent "on paper" moves haven't worked out lately (MoJo, Grabner...I was in favor of both deals), I still have a lot of faith in him. 

Really hard to win without an impressive core, and some bona-fide stars.  But we've seen our fair share of really good teams that never ever get over the hump.  Quenneville managed to do it three times...not saying that he was the sole reason, and who knows, maybe there's another coach out there that could've gotten similar results...but the fact remains, he DID it.  I don't think too much should be taken away from him. 

 

Agreed. You don’t become 2nd in all time wins behind only Scotty Bowman unless you’re a damn good coach. 

[MadDog2020]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

Agreed. You don’t become 2nd in all time wins behind only Scotty Bowman unless you’re a damn good coach. 

And no coach wins championships without great players. Period.

[Nicomo]

2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

And no coach wins championships without great players. Period.

Except Mike Keenan. All the 94 Rags sucked. 😛

[SterioDesign]

56 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

How good would Shero have been in Pitt without the talent that he had to work with?  And that's not to knock Shero, because even though some of his more recent "on paper" moves haven't worked out lately (MoJo, Grabner...I was in favor of both deals), I still have a lot of faith in him. 

Really hard to win without an impressive core, and some bona-fide stars.  But we've seen our fair share of really good teams that never ever get over the hump.  Quenneville managed to do it three times...not saying that he was the sole reason, and who knows, maybe there's another coach out there that could've gotten similar results...but the fact remains, he DID it.  I don't think too much should be taken away from him. 

 

 

Apples and oranges. A GM you can literally see all his moves and methods. A coach it's more up in the air of what he's really responsible for or not. If Kane goes on a rampage and deke out 3-4 guys and score... all the coach did was put him on the ice. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Apples and oranges. A GM you can literally see all his moves and methods. A coach it's more up in the air of what he's really responsible for or not. If Kane goes on a rampage and deke out 3-4 guys and score... all the coach did was put him on the ice. 

Not really.  You want to praise Shero and give him credit for every last thing he does and will obviously defend him if anyone says anything remotely critical about him (or points out that he walked into a killer situation in Pittsburgh), and I get it because you like him a lot (and I think most Devils fans do as well).  But the fact is he did inherit a hell of a lot when he became the Pens' GM...to the point that I still think his legacy is going to be built here, because this situation was truly a big-time challenge from the start...and has been made even more so by the fact that one of the ONLY pieces that initially seemed like a relatively sure thing in Schneider has fallen to pieces.  Now Shero may have to address THAT weakness as well. 

My point remains that you need talent to win.  Shero was given a nice batch of it to start with when he became the Penguins' GM.  Quenneville had a lot of it to work with as the Blackhawks' HC.  But I give both of them credit for winning.  I don't think either guy was just along for the ride. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Steadevils]

Would rather see a trade shakeup than a coaching change. Trade someone relatively unexpected (MoJo, palmeiri,  Vatanen, lovejoy) and demote Schneider. That would send a big message that current performance is unacceptable. 

[SterioDesign]

34 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Not really.  You want to praise Shero and give him credit for every last thing he does and will obviously defend him if anyone says anything remotely critical about him (or points out that he walked into a killer situation in Pittsburgh), and I get it because you like him a lot (and I think most Devils fans do as well).  But the fact is he did inherit a hell of a lot when he became the Pens' GM...to the point that I still think his legacy is going to be built here, because this situation was truly a big-time challenge from the start...and has been made even more so by the fact that one of the ONLY pieces that initially seemed like a relatively sure thing in Schneider has fallen to pieces.  Now Shero may have to address THAT weakness as well. 

My point remains that you need talent to win.  Shero was given a nice batch of it to start with when he became the GM.  Quenneville had a lot of it to work with as the Blackhawks' HC.  But I give both of them credit for winning.  I don't think either guy was just along for the ride. 

Hahaha so clearly it looks like you have this that you needed to get off your chest and you're trying to work it in this conversation somehow

And you're wrong actually. I don't like Shero and praise him BECAUSE of any "team success" he had in Pittsburgh. I actually never even brought that up. You can look for it but it never happened. I liked him because of his methods/vision and how he handled his UFAs. Which has NOTHING to do with how good his core was when he got there. Hell I even said that it was unfair that he got fired from Pittsburgh cause on paper he did one hell of a job before the playoffs to put a good team on the ice but the players sh!t the bed. 

Never said or suggested that Q was bad but it's harder to see what a coach does with a very very talented group vs what happened in Vegas last year for example. It's not to say that a coach with good players doesn't deserve credits but it's undeniable that it's not as clear as to what he's responsible for or not. Which makes it a legitimate question.

The Pens made it to the finals 4 times from 2008 to 2015 (led by 3 different coaches) and won the cup 3 times. Disco Dan won the Jack Adams at some point in there. So what's the common factor here behind all that success? The Pens core, not the coach. Look at how Disco Dan did in Buffalo after. Eichel wouldnt even sign a long term deal with them if Dan was the coach.

Edited November 27, 2018 by SterioDesign

[Nicomo]

20 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

Would rather see a trade shakeup than a coaching change. Trade someone relatively unexpected (MoJo, palmeiri,  Vatanen, lovejoy) and demote Schneider. That would send a big message that current performance is unacceptable. 

No way you trade Palms or Vatanen. The former is our leading goal scorer, and the latter is our best defenseman. 

Lovejoy is not bringing much back in return. Mojo is an interesting one, and honestly he’d probably be my pick if someone has to be moved. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Nicomo

[DJ Eco]

21 minutes ago, Steadevils said:

Would rather see a trade shakeup than a coaching change. Trade someone relatively unexpected (MoJo, palmeiri,  Vatanen, lovejoy) and demote Schneider. That would send a big message that current performance is unacceptable. 

There's a huge difference between trading Vatanen and trading Lovejoy dude...

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Hahaha so clearly it looks like you have this that you needed to get off your chest and you're trying to work it in this conversation somehow

And you're wrong actually. I don't like Shero and praise him BECAUSE of any "team success" he had in Pittsburgh. I actually never even brought that up. You can look for it but it never happened. I liked him because of his methods/vision and how he handled his UFAs. Which has NOTHING to do with how good his core was when he got there. Hell I even said that it was unfair that he got fired from Pittsburgh cause on paper he did one hell of a job before the playoffs to put a good team on the ice but the players sh!t the bed. 

Never said or suggested that Q was bad but it's harder to see what a coach does with a very very talented group vs what happened in Vegas last year for example. It's not to say that a coach with good players doesn't deserve credits but it's undeniable that it's not as clear as to what he's responsible for or not. Which makes it a legitimate question.

The Pens made it to the finals 4 times from 2008 to 2015 (led by 3 different coaches) and won the cup 3 times. Disco Dan won the Jack Adams at some point in there. So what's the common factor here behind all that success? The Pens core, not the coach. Look at how Disco Dan did in Buffalo after. Eichel wouldnt even sign a long term deal with them if Dan was the coach.

C'mon, the bolded is not even close to true.  Sometimes you can really be off-base man.  And when I said "like him a lot", I meant that you like his general MO and results (or what you interpret his MO and results to be).  Not like you've made that a secret. 

And like I said, yes, most of the time coaches need considerable talent to win...but we've also seen coaches that have talent, yet get in the way, or don't use it properly...not that they're to fully blame or praise when such teams win it all or fall well short, but at least some coaches manage to not fvck things up.  And as we've seen, not all coaches are an equally great fit everywhere (just like some players don't mesh with certain teams), for many reasons (talent that doesn't fit their MO, better with veterans, etc). 

[DevsMan84]

16 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

No way you trade Palms or Vatanen. The former is our leading goal scorer, and the latter is our best defenseman. 

Lovejoy is not bringing much back in return. Mojo is an interesting one, and honestly he’d probably be my pick if someone has to be moved. 

I don't think either is untouchable.  Vats is at best a #4 D-man on a good team and Palms should be considered if you get a great player in return.

Outside of Hischier and Smith, I don't really have much of an issue with everybody else being available.