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Ray finally speaks


Chimaira_Devil_#9

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3 hours ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Signing Statsny/JVR/Neal/deHaan or trading for ROR/Karlsson/Hoffman would have made a fringe playoff team into a likely playoff team. 

He did none of those.

i disagree with that. 

If we're going to get on Shero for not signing ROR or Hoffman then man does that reek of desperation and hindsight. (And btw, neither are defensemen anyway, so we'd still be giving up 9 goals a game.)

Edited by devlman
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6 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I think this is a fantastic piece, and it's what I've been wanting for the past.. month and a half.

This is, more or less, acknowledging that we're going to let what happens happen.  Or in other words, I think this is about as pro-tank as you're ever going to hear from Shero.  Which is fine in my mind - it makes these awful, embarrassing losses at least tolerable.  Knowing there's a vision here makes it easier to stomach.

Also, yeah, pretty blunt about Cory.  Essentially "we've done all we can do, time to put up or shut up".

And if he was going to be okay with tanking he should have done it when he first got here instead of letting it ride out with Cory, Greene, etc and having a reset four years into his tenure with one playoff win to show for it and the fate of your franchise player in limbo as he's going through another Oilers-like season.

And cheering for tanking in hockey is just stupid IMO for two reasons - because we have a lot of young players on the team, losing means the young players are generally not playing well and we're seeing that with guys like Zacha and Wood.  You don't get to have this mythical combination of both young players play well and the team losing, you only get one or the other 98% of the time.  And because tanking doesn't = draft position with the triple lottery.  We went from 5-1 and the Flyers 14-2 in the same draft while the Avs went from 1-4 after the worst year in like two decades.  It's one thing to want the tank in football when losses actually equal draft position and potentially a franchise QB but hockey's another story especially in a non-Crosby/Ovi type year with a draft that's a true lottery.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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3 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

The one guy I could say in retrospect I wish Ray got in on was Hoffman- but at the time, there was the whole thing with the crazy girlfriend and what not, so no one really wanted him (including me), given his baggage.

Eh the bigger problem with Hoffman is Ottawa didn't want to trade him in conference.  Shero had like a half hour to trade for him while he was in San Jose, I don't think anyone else saw the second trade coming.

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Shero didn't say that he was OK with tanking...if he was, then why go out and get Palmieri, Hall, MoJo, Vatanen, etc.  He did say that he's not really OK with big UFA overpayments that could turn out to be a real problem later...he's clearly not interested in building his team that way.  I think he'd rather stockpile picks and youth and trade for younger, more cost-controlled players (or simply have some guys develop from within). 

It's also fair to note that I don't think Shero ever expected Schneider to continue to struggle like this...you always have to do some reading between the lines when it comes to GM quotes, but I get the impression Shero's basically saying enough is enough with Cory:  "Start challenging the overburdened KK for the #1 job already, and then begin to make yourself a Top 10 #1 again!"  I don't know if Cory has that in him at this point, but it's pretty clear Shero's getting tired of waiting for it to happen. 

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20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Shero didn't say that he was OK with tanking...if he was, then why go out and get Palmieri, Hall, MoJo, Vatanen, etc.  He did say that he's not really OK with big UFA overpayments that could turn out to be a real problem later...he's clearly not interested in building his team that way.  I think he'd rather stockpile picks and youth and trade for younger, more cost-controlled players (or simply have some guys develop from within). 

It's also fair to note that I don't think Shero ever expected Schneider to continue to struggle like this...you always have to do some reading between the lines when it comes to GM quotes, but I get the impression Shero's basically saying enough is enough with Cory:  "Start challenging the overburdened KK for the #1 job already, and then begin to make yourself a Top 10 #1 again!"  I don't know if Cory has that in him at this point, but it's pretty clear Shero's getting tired of waiting for it to happen. 

I am not going to kill him for it, but if that is the overall vision I wish Shero wouldn't have made those deadline trades.  While great on paper, we gave up a 2nd rounder and a decent prospect to a rival for 20 or so games of a very disinterested Grabner.  Maroon was a better trade, but we gave up more pics to get him.  I am not going to overvalue those picks, but he was clearly "all-in" at he very least in making a splash to catapult the team into the playoffs rather than just stay the course and build through the draft.

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29 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not going to kill him for it, but if that is the overall vision I wish Shero wouldn't have made those deadline trades.  While great on paper, we gave up a 2nd rounder and a decent prospect to a rival for 20 or so games of a very disinterested Grabner.  Maroon was a better trade, but we gave up more pics to get him.  I am not going to overvalue those picks, but he was clearly "all-in" at he very least in making a splash to catapult the team into the playoffs rather than just stay the course and build through the draft.

At the time I was pleased with the trades for Maroon & Grabner but in hindsight I'd rather we still had the picks. How the likes of Hall, Palms, etc would have felt about Shero doing nothing though is another matter though.

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not going to kill him for it, but if that is the overall vision I wish Shero wouldn't have made those deadline trades.  While great on paper, we gave up a 2nd rounder and a decent prospect to a rival for 20 or so games of a very disinterested Grabner.  Maroon was a better trade, but we gave up more pics to get him.  I am not going to overvalue those picks, but he was clearly "all-in" at he very least in making a splash to catapult the team into the playoffs rather than just stay the course and build through the draft.

I don't think he was "all-in" by any means.   The team overachieved and basically deserved some help for the playoff push and Shero made some minor moves that didn't cost much in the long run.  You can say you would have rather had the pick and prospect but how does that play in the locker room to guys like Hall and Palmieri if Shero went radio silent down the stretch?  Grabner didn't work out but without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I think Shero played that about as well as he could have.    

Edited by Lateralous
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58 minutes ago, Aitchmack said:

At the time I was pleased with the trades for Maroon & Grabner but in hindsight I'd rather we still had the picks. How the likes of Hall, Palms, etc would have felt about Shero doing nothing though is another matter though.

Honestly though if you really look at it, they're getting those picks back this year at the rate it's going for MarJo, Boyle and Lovejoy.

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2 hours ago, Lateralous said:

I don't think he was "all-in" by any means.   The team overachieved and basically deserved some help for the playoff push and Shero made some minor moves that didn't cost much in the long run.  You can say you would have rather had the pick and prospect but how does that play in the locker room to guys like Hall and Palmieri if Shero went radio silent down the stretch?  Grabner didn't work out but without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I think Shero played that about as well as he could have.    

Agree with the above completely.  Shero probably did go off his script a little, but I think he saw that he'd accrued a solid collection of youth, was impressed with what his team has accomplished, and wanted to show that team that he was willing to bend the rules a bit to help them out...he felt he could afford to take a little risk. 

I also think that he wasn't opposed to re-signing one or both of Grabner or Maroon depending on the circumstances (neither was set to make a fortune via UFA).  In the case of Grabner, he pretty much played himself out of here...unfortunately not everyone can just go to a new team and fit right in, especially over a short sample.  Shero obviously would've loved to have kept Maroon, but we know what the situation was...sadly for Maroon, his homecoming hasn't really worked out all that well for him, as far as his numbers go. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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It shows a lot of the goals against the Devils come from well outside the scoring chance area.

Shero isn't tanking.  There is just not a lot a GM can do to make a team better in season, especially from the position the Devils are in.  The biggest thing he can do is fire the coach, but I don't think that's warranted.  The goalies can't make a save.  The #3 goalie is hurt.

I can't imagine what a nightmare this place would be if the Devils hadn't made the playoffs last year.  

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If/when Ray sells this year I hope we target players rather than picks. I just think with Hall entering his re-signing period that adding under-performing high ceiling players rather than draft picks might go a long way to show that Ray sees the window as 1-2 years away not 3-4 years. I am thinking players who are 22-24 who haven't found room or who won't be able to fit on cap strapped teams now that RFA's are starting to get paid a bit more.

MoJo for Andre Burakovsky - Who says no? Caps fans are done with him and I know MoJo was well liked in that locker room. 

Also, I think Shero was smart to avoid FA's last year with 2019 looking like the year to dip in. Here is an interesting article about the 2019 free agent crop and why it is looking likely that many actually will the hit FA market: https://theathletic.com/706436/2018/12/11/a-lot-of-really-good-2019-ufas-havent-signed-extensions-yet-why-thats-rare-and-usually-bad-news-for-their-team/ and here is just the list without analysis: https://www.nhl.com/news/2019-fantasy-hockey-ufa-preview-list/c-298503958

 

 

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Just now, SterioDesign said:

"Doing something for the sake of getting a little bit better, or to just say you're doing something, is patchwork and not a plan. "

Glad to finally have a GM who gets it

Why keep taking jabs at Lou?  He's been gone for YEARS now.  I could understand that level of bitterness towards him (or any GM) who's been on the job for too a long of a time and hasn't won anything at all.  As ugly as it was in the end, at least it wasn't a barren run.

In many ways, Lou's many follies towards the end of his run left Shero little choice but to take the path he's been on for a while now...with some teams, there's just enough there that a GM can either try to augment the current talent, or decide that such a team has already gone as far as it can and decide to tear it down...it's not always clear which direction the new GM should take.  Shero clearly couldn't try to keep Band-Aiding the mess he inherited, and with no ties to that roster, he was able to clear the deadwood without much debate.  So now it's a question of how long does him to take to build a legit contender? 

One of many things that I like about Shero a lot is that he obviously will not chase backpage news...I think it's easy to have money earmarked for one purpose, have the scenario you hoped for not ever materialize (I think Shero would've been 100% on Tavares had he been available to the Devils...probably would've gotten involved with Carlson too), and then just spend the money because you have it, on Plan Cs and Plan Ds just because they're available.  Shero could've easily signed a James Neal-type (a kinda-sorta productive guy who's not old yet not young, but has enough meh to him that you shouldn't be that thrilled about bringing him in)...GMs fall prey to desperation "Gotta do SOMETHING!" signings quite often...at the time, that's what Cammalleri felt like to me, and the red flags that concerned me (injury-prone, age, prone to decline) all reared their ugly heads.  Of course you're never going to be able to 100% avoid bad contracts forever, but I like that Shero is not going to sign the Neals to contracts that reek the second they're signed, and much stronger disaster potential than real payoff potential.  Like we've discussed, I didn't have a problem with Shero's offseason at the time, and I still don't.  And I agree that his current approach will have a better chance to pay off long-term. 

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32 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

I disagree. 

Last year set expectations. this place doesn't handle "failing to meet expectations" well. I was here when we were playoff-locks and the vitriol in every game thread was way worse than it is now. 

If we missed the playoffs last season at least we sorta expect to be dropping enormous, stinky turds in the middle of the ice. 

1:  The vitriol was not worse.  Most of the time, the Devils ended up winning the game.

2:  I'm not talking if the Devils had missed the playoffs like they're going to this season - by 5-15 points.  I'm talking about if the Devils had come up a little short.  

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36 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

I disagree. 

Last year set expectations. this place doesn't handle "failing to meet expectations" well. I was here when we were playoff-locks and the vitriol in every game thread was way worse than it is now. 

If we missed the playoffs last season at least we sorta expect to be dropping enormous, stinky turds in the middle of the ice. 

Agreed, I think its even worse since we did make the playoffs. It's only natural we wanted the same or better this year. 

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38 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed, I think its even worse since we did make the playoffs. It's only natural we wanted the same or better this year. 

This is delusional.  If the Devils miss the playoffs close last year, the calls to fire the GM and coach would be much, much louder.

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Why keep taking jabs at Lou?  He's been gone for YEARS now.  I could understand that level of bitterness towards him (or any GM) who's been on the job for too a long of a time and hasn't won anything at all.  As ugly as it was in the end, at least it wasn't a barren run.

In many ways, Lou's many follies towards the end of his run left Shero little choice but to take the path he's been on for a while now...with some teams, there's just enough there that a GM can either try to augment the current talent, or decide that such a team has already gone as far as it can and decide to tear it down...it's not always clear which direction the new GM should take.  Shero clearly couldn't try to keep Band-Aiding the mess he inherited, and with no ties to that roster, he was able to clear the deadwood without much debate.  So now it's a question of how long does him to take to build a legit contender? 

One of many things that I like about Shero a lot is that he obviously will not chase backpage news...I think it's easy to have money earmarked for one purpose, have the scenario you hoped for not ever materialize (I think Shero would've been 100% on Tavares had he been available to the Devils...probably would've gotten involved with Carlson too), and then just spend the money because you have it, on Plan Cs and Plan Ds just because they're available.  Shero could've easily signed a James Neal-type (a kinda-sorta productive guy who's not old yet not young, but has enough meh to him that you shouldn't be that thrilled about bringing him in)...GMs fall prey to desperation "Gotta do SOMETHING!" signings quite often...at the time, that's what Cammalleri felt like to me, and the red flags that concerned me (injury-prone, age, prone to decline) all reared their ugly heads.  Of course you're never going to be able to 100% avoid bad contracts forever, but I like that Shero is not going to sign the Neals to contracts that reek the second they're signed, and much stronger disaster potential than real payoff potential.  Like we've discussed, I didn't have a problem with Shero's offseason at the time, and I still don't.  And I agree that his current approach will have a better chance to pay off long-term. 

Why ask me every time? Why just not letting it go instead of telling me to let go? At the moment we're directly hurting from past failures to built a real team and build assets just as much as we're hurting from Greene's current play. It's RIGHT there. 

For years I've been saying based on his ways what would happen and the only place it could lead the team, in great details. I've been bashed and insulted by 95% of the people here who were in full denial or finding excuses. Everything i said would happen happened, from A to Z. Now many posters turned the corners and finally admitted all the flaws and saw the big picture. But i also see people bashing Shero for problems Lou brought and they were the ones defending him about his approach back then. So imagine how frustrating that is to see.

So if you don't understand based on my experience why sometime i can't just hold it, well i don't know. I'm sorry. 

 

Edited by SterioDesign
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3 hours ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

I disagree. 

Last year set expectations. this place doesn't handle "failing to meet expectations" well. I was here when we were playoff-locks and the vitriol in every game thread was way worse than it is now. 

If we missed the playoffs last season at least we sorta expect to be dropping enormous, stinky turds in the middle of the ice. 

Bingo.

If we sucked last year, the expectations for this year would be a whole lot more tempered. 

That said, I'm glad we did make the show last year.  Really was a remarkable season.

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I'm pretty disgruntled this year, I don't normally miss home games but if we keep it up like this I'll be using all my buybacks at the end of the season and either buying dirt cheap tickets on the secondary market or just watching from home. 

I didn't expect much out of this team this year but they really are horrid to watch. 

Edited by Satans Hockey
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10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Why ask me every time? Why just not letting it go instead of telling me to let go? At the moment we're directly hurting from past failures to built a real team and build assets just as much as we're hurting from Greene's current play. It's RIGHT there. 

For years I've been saying based on his ways what would happen and the only place it could lead the team, in great details. I've been bashed and insulted by 95% of the people here who were in full denial or finding excuses. Everything i said would happen happened, from A to Z. Now many posters turned the corners and finally admitted all the flaws and saw the big picture. But i also see people bashing Shero for problems Lou brought and they were the ones defending him about his approach back then. So imagine how frustrating that is to see.

So if you don't understand based on my experience why sometime i can't just hold it, well i don't know. I'm sorry. 

 

Just change your name to "I told you so" then, because these posts you keep making are getting fvcking old man. 

Everyone knows Lou was being as stubborn as he could be towards the end and it was a huge flaw in his character. But as CR said he is gone, what more is there to say? 

If you cant see why it would irk people to keep popping up all the time and saying I was right or I told you so, then I don't know what to tell you. 

Edited by Chimaira_Devil_#9
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6 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Just change your name to "I told you so" then. 

It's not about me at all. It's about having the right mindset, as fans and as manager of the team. Your mindset guides everything you're doing, from the action you take, to how you react emotionally to things. There's a clear correlation between the 2. From a GM making desperate moves or patchwork to try to keep the team relevant, hurting its future. To a fan calling for everyone to be traded or a coach to be fired or wtv, not willing to accept the state the team is in and understand that it takes time to recover from the state the team was in. And then to a GM sticking to his original plan and waiting for play his cards right to fans understanding that it's going to take awhile and not calling out the lack of moves or wtv.

Guarantee that given the choice between... A) making some moves right now that would make us make the playoffs this year by an inch and lose in round 1 OR B) make moves that could make us true contenders in 3-5 years for the 5-6 years, many posters here would pick A. They just don't have the patience or god knows to see the big picture.

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