Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Chimaira_Devil_#9

Ray finally speaks

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Gunslinger27 said:

Jack Hughes  Lose for you know............ Hughes................

I am counting down the days until the draft lottery already.  Hughes would be awesome but Kakko would be nice too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Signing Statsny/JVR/Neal/deHaan or trading for ROR/Karlsson/Hoffman would have made a fringe playoff team into a likely playoff team. 

He did none of those.

i disagree with that. 

Statsny has played in three games this season.

JVR missed some games early on and has been held pointless in 8 out of his last 10 games.

By Neal, do you mean the Neal who's being paid $5,750,000 per season and has managed six points in 31 games so far?  That Neal?

deHaan played in just 33 games last season and has been kinda injury prone (though he did manage 82 GP in 2016-17). 

Also fair to note that Shero has been consistent...he's clearly not going the overpay-a-UFA route to try to build his team at this stage (though if the team is close and he sees that guy who can put the Devils over the top, I can see him amending that approach then).

ROR has come back to Earth after that big streak...8 points in his last 13 games.  Buffalo thought that he was so awesome that they moved his contract just two years into a seven-year deal, despite being cost-controlled for another five years.  Sure doesn't seem like they're missing him much.  BTW the Blues are 10-14-4 with him this year...they went 44-32-6 last season without him. 

Severson has 4 goals and 14 assists in 29 GP.   Karlsson has 2 goals and 18 assists in 32 GP.  The Devils also already had Butcher and Vatanen to provide some blueline offense as well.  I was definitely intrigued by Karlsson for a while for sure, but he looks like a guy who's not only already had his best seasons, but is looking like a UFA overpayment waiting to happen...the kind of deal that becomes an albatross within three years...the exact kind of deal that Shero clearly wants to avoid.

Hoffman had baggage...can't blame Shero for not taking a chance on him.

Can't just do the grass-is-greener name-pick and make it sound like bringing one or two of them in would've automatically been an immediate help. 

 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Statsny has played in three games this season.

JVR missed some games early on and has been held pointless in 8 out of his last 10 games.

By Neal, do you mean the Neal who's being paid $5,750,000 per season and has managed six points in 31 games so far?  That Neal?

deHaan played in just 33 games last season and has been kinda injury prone (though he did manage 82 GP in 2016-17). 

Also fair to note that Shero has been consistent...he's clearly not going the overpay-a-UFA route to try to build his team at this stage.

ROR has come back to Earth after that big streak...8 points in his last 13 games.  Buffalo thought that he was so awesome that they moved his contract just two years into a seven-year deal, despite being cost-controlled for another five years.  Sure doesn't seem like they're missing him much.  BTW the Blues are 10-14-4 with him this year...they went 44-32-6 last season without him. 

Severson has 4 goals and 14 assists in 29 GP.   Karlsson has 2 goals and 18 assists in 32 GP.  The Devils also already had Butcher and Vatanen to provide some blueline offense as well.  I was definitely intrigued by Karlsson for a while for sure, but he looks like a guy who's not only already had his best seasons, but is looking like a UFA overpayment waiting to happen...the kind of deal that becomes an albatross within three years...the exact kind of deal that Shero clearly wants to avoid.

Hoffman had baggage...can't blame Shero for not taking a chance on him.

Can't just do the grass-is-greener name-pick and make it sound like bringing one or two of them in would've automatically been an immediate help. 

 

I think with the bolded, but I wonder if what's going on with EK is that they already have a couple of top-notch D-men and adding another one in there just threw everything off.  There is only so much puck to go around in any given game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Signing Statsny/JVR/Neal/deHaan or trading for ROR/Karlsson/Hoffman would have made a fringe playoff team into a likely playoff team. 

He did none of those.

i disagree with that. 

If we're going to get on Shero for not signing ROR or Hoffman then man does that reek of desperation and hindsight. (And btw, neither are defensemen anyway, so we'd still be giving up 9 goals a game.)

Edited by devlman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I think this is a fantastic piece, and it's what I've been wanting for the past.. month and a half.

This is, more or less, acknowledging that we're going to let what happens happen.  Or in other words, I think this is about as pro-tank as you're ever going to hear from Shero.  Which is fine in my mind - it makes these awful, embarrassing losses at least tolerable.  Knowing there's a vision here makes it easier to stomach.

Also, yeah, pretty blunt about Cory.  Essentially "we've done all we can do, time to put up or shut up".

And if he was going to be okay with tanking he should have done it when he first got here instead of letting it ride out with Cory, Greene, etc and having a reset four years into his tenure with one playoff win to show for it and the fate of your franchise player in limbo as he's going through another Oilers-like season.

And cheering for tanking in hockey is just stupid IMO for two reasons - because we have a lot of young players on the team, losing means the young players are generally not playing well and we're seeing that with guys like Zacha and Wood.  You don't get to have this mythical combination of both young players play well and the team losing, you only get one or the other 98% of the time.  And because tanking doesn't = draft position with the triple lottery.  We went from 5-1 and the Flyers 14-2 in the same draft while the Avs went from 1-4 after the worst year in like two decades.  It's one thing to want the tank in football when losses actually equal draft position and potentially a franchise QB but hockey's another story especially in a non-Crosby/Ovi type year with a draft that's a true lottery.

Edited by NJDevs4978
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

The one guy I could say in retrospect I wish Ray got in on was Hoffman- but at the time, there was the whole thing with the crazy girlfriend and what not, so no one really wanted him (including me), given his baggage.

Eh the bigger problem with Hoffman is Ottawa didn't want to trade him in conference.  Shero had like a half hour to trade for him while he was in San Jose, I don't think anyone else saw the second trade coming.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shero didn't say that he was OK with tanking...if he was, then why go out and get Palmieri, Hall, MoJo, Vatanen, etc.  He did say that he's not really OK with big UFA overpayments that could turn out to be a real problem later...he's clearly not interested in building his team that way.  I think he'd rather stockpile picks and youth and trade for younger, more cost-controlled players (or simply have some guys develop from within). 

It's also fair to note that I don't think Shero ever expected Schneider to continue to struggle like this...you always have to do some reading between the lines when it comes to GM quotes, but I get the impression Shero's basically saying enough is enough with Cory:  "Start challenging the overburdened KK for the #1 job already, and then begin to make yourself a Top 10 #1 again!"  I don't know if Cory has that in him at this point, but it's pretty clear Shero's getting tired of waiting for it to happen. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Shero didn't say that he was OK with tanking...if he was, then why go out and get Palmieri, Hall, MoJo, Vatanen, etc.  He did say that he's not really OK with big UFA overpayments that could turn out to be a real problem later...he's clearly not interested in building his team that way.  I think he'd rather stockpile picks and youth and trade for younger, more cost-controlled players (or simply have some guys develop from within). 

It's also fair to note that I don't think Shero ever expected Schneider to continue to struggle like this...you always have to do some reading between the lines when it comes to GM quotes, but I get the impression Shero's basically saying enough is enough with Cory:  "Start challenging the overburdened KK for the #1 job already, and then begin to make yourself a Top 10 #1 again!"  I don't know if Cory has that in him at this point, but it's pretty clear Shero's getting tired of waiting for it to happen. 

I am not going to kill him for it, but if that is the overall vision I wish Shero wouldn't have made those deadline trades.  While great on paper, we gave up a 2nd rounder and a decent prospect to a rival for 20 or so games of a very disinterested Grabner.  Maroon was a better trade, but we gave up more pics to get him.  I am not going to overvalue those picks, but he was clearly "all-in" at he very least in making a splash to catapult the team into the playoffs rather than just stay the course and build through the draft.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not going to kill him for it, but if that is the overall vision I wish Shero wouldn't have made those deadline trades.  While great on paper, we gave up a 2nd rounder and a decent prospect to a rival for 20 or so games of a very disinterested Grabner.  Maroon was a better trade, but we gave up more pics to get him.  I am not going to overvalue those picks, but he was clearly "all-in" at he very least in making a splash to catapult the team into the playoffs rather than just stay the course and build through the draft.

At the time I was pleased with the trades for Maroon & Grabner but in hindsight I'd rather we still had the picks. How the likes of Hall, Palms, etc would have felt about Shero doing nothing though is another matter though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not going to kill him for it, but if that is the overall vision I wish Shero wouldn't have made those deadline trades.  While great on paper, we gave up a 2nd rounder and a decent prospect to a rival for 20 or so games of a very disinterested Grabner.  Maroon was a better trade, but we gave up more pics to get him.  I am not going to overvalue those picks, but he was clearly "all-in" at he very least in making a splash to catapult the team into the playoffs rather than just stay the course and build through the draft.

I don't think he was "all-in" by any means.   The team overachieved and basically deserved some help for the playoff push and Shero made some minor moves that didn't cost much in the long run.  You can say you would have rather had the pick and prospect but how does that play in the locker room to guys like Hall and Palmieri if Shero went radio silent down the stretch?  Grabner didn't work out but without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I think Shero played that about as well as he could have.    

Edited by Lateralous
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Aitchmack said:

At the time I was pleased with the trades for Maroon & Grabner but in hindsight I'd rather we still had the picks. How the likes of Hall, Palms, etc would have felt about Shero doing nothing though is another matter though.

Honestly though if you really look at it, they're getting those picks back this year at the rate it's going for MarJo, Boyle and Lovejoy.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lateralous said:

I don't think he was "all-in" by any means.   The team overachieved and basically deserved some help for the playoff push and Shero made some minor moves that didn't cost much in the long run.  You can say you would have rather had the pick and prospect but how does that play in the locker room to guys like Hall and Palmieri if Shero went radio silent down the stretch?  Grabner didn't work out but without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I think Shero played that about as well as he could have.    

Agree with the above completely.  Shero probably did go off his script a little, but I think he saw that he'd accrued a solid collection of youth, was impressed with what his team has accomplished, and wanted to show that team that he was willing to bend the rules a bit to help them out...he felt he could afford to take a little risk. 

I also think that he wasn't opposed to re-signing one or both of Grabner or Maroon depending on the circumstances (neither was set to make a fortune via UFA).  In the case of Grabner, he pretty much played himself out of here...unfortunately not everyone can just go to a new team and fit right in, especially over a short sample.  Shero obviously would've loved to have kept Maroon, but we know what the situation was...sadly for Maroon, his homecoming hasn't really worked out all that well for him, as far as his numbers go. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No idea WTF this shows (maybe that our defense is good) but I think it's very cool looking!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It shows a lot of the goals against the Devils come from well outside the scoring chance area.

Shero isn't tanking.  There is just not a lot a GM can do to make a team better in season, especially from the position the Devils are in.  The biggest thing he can do is fire the coach, but I don't think that's warranted.  The goalies can't make a save.  The #3 goalie is hurt.

I can't imagine what a nightmare this place would be if the Devils hadn't made the playoffs last year.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If/when Ray sells this year I hope we target players rather than picks. I just think with Hall entering his re-signing period that adding under-performing high ceiling players rather than draft picks might go a long way to show that Ray sees the window as 1-2 years away not 3-4 years. I am thinking players who are 22-24 who haven't found room or who won't be able to fit on cap strapped teams now that RFA's are starting to get paid a bit more.

MoJo for Andre Burakovsky - Who says no? Caps fans are done with him and I know MoJo was well liked in that locker room. 

Also, I think Shero was smart to avoid FA's last year with 2019 looking like the year to dip in. Here is an interesting article about the 2019 free agent crop and why it is looking likely that many actually will the hit FA market: https://theathletic.com/706436/2018/12/11/a-lot-of-really-good-2019-ufas-havent-signed-extensions-yet-why-thats-rare-and-usually-bad-news-for-their-team/ and here is just the list without analysis: https://www.nhl.com/news/2019-fantasy-hockey-ufa-preview-list/c-298503958

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Doing something for the sake of getting a little bit better, or to just say you're doing something, is patchwork and not a plan. "

Glad to finally have a GM who gets it

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Triumph said:

I can't imagine what a nightmare this place would be if the Devils hadn't made the playoffs last year.  

I disagree. 

Last year set expectations. this place doesn't handle "failing to meet expectations" well. I was here when we were playoff-locks and the vitriol in every game thread was way worse than it is now. 

If we missed the playoffs last season at least we sorta expect to be dropping enormous, stinky turds in the middle of the ice. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, SterioDesign said:

"Doing something for the sake of getting a little bit better, or to just say you're doing something, is patchwork and not a plan. "

Glad to finally have a GM who gets it

Why keep taking jabs at Lou?  He's been gone for YEARS now.  I could understand that level of bitterness towards him (or any GM) who's been on the job for too a long of a time and hasn't won anything at all.  As ugly as it was in the end, at least it wasn't a barren run.

In many ways, Lou's many follies towards the end of his run left Shero little choice but to take the path he's been on for a while now...with some teams, there's just enough there that a GM can either try to augment the current talent, or decide that such a team has already gone as far as it can and decide to tear it down...it's not always clear which direction the new GM should take.  Shero clearly couldn't try to keep Band-Aiding the mess he inherited, and with no ties to that roster, he was able to clear the deadwood without much debate.  So now it's a question of how long does him to take to build a legit contender? 

One of many things that I like about Shero a lot is that he obviously will not chase backpage news...I think it's easy to have money earmarked for one purpose, have the scenario you hoped for not ever materialize (I think Shero would've been 100% on Tavares had he been available to the Devils...probably would've gotten involved with Carlson too), and then just spend the money because you have it, on Plan Cs and Plan Ds just because they're available.  Shero could've easily signed a James Neal-type (a kinda-sorta productive guy who's not old yet not young, but has enough meh to him that you shouldn't be that thrilled about bringing him in)...GMs fall prey to desperation "Gotta do SOMETHING!" signings quite often...at the time, that's what Cammalleri felt like to me, and the red flags that concerned me (injury-prone, age, prone to decline) all reared their ugly heads.  Of course you're never going to be able to 100% avoid bad contracts forever, but I like that Shero is not going to sign the Neals to contracts that reek the second they're signed, and much stronger disaster potential than real payoff potential.  Like we've discussed, I didn't have a problem with Shero's offseason at the time, and I still don't.  And I agree that his current approach will have a better chance to pay off long-term. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

I disagree. 

Last year set expectations. this place doesn't handle "failing to meet expectations" well. I was here when we were playoff-locks and the vitriol in every game thread was way worse than it is now. 

If we missed the playoffs last season at least we sorta expect to be dropping enormous, stinky turds in the middle of the ice. 

1:  The vitriol was not worse.  Most of the time, the Devils ended up winning the game.

2:  I'm not talking if the Devils had missed the playoffs like they're going to this season - by 5-15 points.  I'm talking about if the Devils had come up a little short.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

I disagree. 

Last year set expectations. this place doesn't handle "failing to meet expectations" well. I was here when we were playoff-locks and the vitriol in every game thread was way worse than it is now. 

If we missed the playoffs last season at least we sorta expect to be dropping enormous, stinky turds in the middle of the ice. 

Agreed, I think its even worse since we did make the playoffs. It's only natural we wanted the same or better this year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed, I think its even worse since we did make the playoffs. It's only natural we wanted the same or better this year. 

This is delusional.  If the Devils miss the playoffs close last year, the calls to fire the GM and coach would be much, much louder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one cool thing about this season is that get to play the scoreboard games from my phone in Florida. Even though I have no idea what the outcome ever is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Why keep taking jabs at Lou?  He's been gone for YEARS now.  I could understand that level of bitterness towards him (or any GM) who's been on the job for too a long of a time and hasn't won anything at all.  As ugly as it was in the end, at least it wasn't a barren run.

In many ways, Lou's many follies towards the end of his run left Shero little choice but to take the path he's been on for a while now...with some teams, there's just enough there that a GM can either try to augment the current talent, or decide that such a team has already gone as far as it can and decide to tear it down...it's not always clear which direction the new GM should take.  Shero clearly couldn't try to keep Band-Aiding the mess he inherited, and with no ties to that roster, he was able to clear the deadwood without much debate.  So now it's a question of how long does him to take to build a legit contender? 

One of many things that I like about Shero a lot is that he obviously will not chase backpage news...I think it's easy to have money earmarked for one purpose, have the scenario you hoped for not ever materialize (I think Shero would've been 100% on Tavares had he been available to the Devils...probably would've gotten involved with Carlson too), and then just spend the money because you have it, on Plan Cs and Plan Ds just because they're available.  Shero could've easily signed a James Neal-type (a kinda-sorta productive guy who's not old yet not young, but has enough meh to him that you shouldn't be that thrilled about bringing him in)...GMs fall prey to desperation "Gotta do SOMETHING!" signings quite often...at the time, that's what Cammalleri felt like to me, and the red flags that concerned me (injury-prone, age, prone to decline) all reared their ugly heads.  Of course you're never going to be able to 100% avoid bad contracts forever, but I like that Shero is not going to sign the Neals to contracts that reek the second they're signed, and much stronger disaster potential than real payoff potential.  Like we've discussed, I didn't have a problem with Shero's offseason at the time, and I still don't.  And I agree that his current approach will have a better chance to pay off long-term. 

Why ask me every time? Why just not letting it go instead of telling me to let go? At the moment we're directly hurting from past failures to built a real team and build assets just as much as we're hurting from Greene's current play. It's RIGHT there. 

For years I've been saying based on his ways what would happen and the only place it could lead the team, in great details. I've been bashed and insulted by 95% of the people here who were in full denial or finding excuses. Everything i said would happen happened, from A to Z. Now many posters turned the corners and finally admitted all the flaws and saw the big picture. But i also see people bashing Shero for problems Lou brought and they were the ones defending him about his approach back then. So imagine how frustrating that is to see.

So if you don't understand based on my experience why sometime i can't just hold it, well i don't know. I'm sorry. 

 

Edited by SterioDesign

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.