2019 New York Mets Season Thread

[NJDevs4978]

20 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Dear Noah,

God you’re such an overrated zilch.  You’ll never put it together consistently.  

If we had a real GM I might be aboard the trade him bandwagon.  Even a guy like Omar (granted he's actually IN the organization again) I'd trust making decisions on bringing in prospects.  As it is, it seems like what I've suspected since this winter is becoming true - the Mets really are actively looking to deal him

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

That’s the rub Has...I don’t trust Brodie to make ANY deals from this point on.  And I’m sure rival GMs are licking their chops for the opportunity to make BVW looks even worse than he’s already been.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 hours ago, MB3 said:

.@Joelsherman1 suggests the #Mets are hesitant to deal Syndergaard or Diaz to teams like the #Yankees or #Astros because they're more advanced analytically, and they could "flourish" for those teams.

i mean jesus christ

Or once you filter this through the BS-to-English dictionary:

BVW and his pal Jeffy will likely get fleeced by teams who know what the hell they're doing and sadly I think they kinda know it...that, and of course pitchers have a chance to "flourish" for other teams, because quite a few other teams do this kooky thing called "Playing players IN POSITION".  But BVW & Jeffy are clearly afraid of looking even dumber than they already do...which after the offseason those two have had, isn't really possible. 

The above being said, though I don't hold YOU guilty of this (as you try to suggest deals that are at least within the ballpark of reasonable), this is the time of year when a large contingent of Yankee fans become their most insufferable...where because Cashman rarely seems to come up with good enough starting pitching, that Yankee fan entitlement starts to spread like the plague, and 80% of their fans begin to suggest trades for someone else's elite starting pitcher, and of course in doing so want to deal off 3-5 of their spare parts for a guy like deGrom.  They forever think the rest of MLB is just dying to help the Yankees win yet another World Series.  I do think Cashman has done a good job in keeping this thing going (it does help when you're rarely crippled by bad signings...that franchise doesn't allow themselves to ever be hamstrung by bad contracts, and good for them, they put their money into their product...no one can ever accuse the Yankees of not trying, because they ALWAYS do). 

Though I'm obviously not a Francesa guy, I did listen to him actually shout down a Yankee fan yesterday who didn't want to give up anything of significance for Syndergaard.  It's like I've said in previous posts...the Mets CANNOT let themselves make a bad deal with the Yankees, especially now...they are pretty much out of credibility as a franchise now...the GM is a fvcking player agent with no experience, one of the owners continues to think he's a baseball man and insists on being involved in matters that he has NO business meddling in, and the manager is a complete dope who doesn't appear to be respected by anyone.  The only way it can get worse at this point would be to make a deal with the Yankees where they don't make the Yanks pay a premium, the guys they get back clearly weren't enough to begin with, and the guy they give up pitches with a lot of success across town.  It's one thing to be the Yanks' lil' brother...that comes with the territory of being a Met fan, mostly because the franchise is run horribly and incompetently.  But the scenario I just described would basically have the Mets seen as completely minor-league.  That can't happen. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

That’s stupid even by Met standards. I get caring about Thor thriving for the Yankees but why the hell would they care if Houston got the best out of him?  It’s not like either team is a direct competitor anyway, certainly not Houston.

But yeah sadly I do agree the Yankees and Houston would fleece us in part cause they do know their sh!t.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

That’s stupid even by Met standards. I get caring about Thor thriving for the Yankees but why the hell would they care if Houston got the best out of him?  It’s not like either team is a direct competitor anyway, certainly not Houston.

But yeah sadly I do agree the Yankees and Houston would fleece us in part cause they do know their sh!t.

I think the Mets aren’t worried about a former player “flourishing” as much as they are about making a bad trade.  BVW's big "blockbuster" disaster has them scared sh!tless to make another deal (or has the Mets scared to let BVW make any big deals at the moment).  The “flourish” crap is a weak attempt to deflect.  

But what a fvcking mess...Jesus, if the idea of BVW making a move is that terrifying, then can him, make Omar the interim GM through the end of the year, and bring in a real GM next season.  One who’s not a former salesman and player agent.

 

And if the Mets are THAT nervous about BVW's ability to make deals now, then I'm sorry, end this sh!tshow RIGHT NOW.  Don't even try to sell me BVW will figure things out by season's end, and then suddenly have freedom again to make moves...does anyone really believe that BVW will suddenly become that much smarter of a GM between now and the offseason? 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

Great post CR. I used to frequent a Yankees forum and I just can't any more. Seems like everyone on that forum was a WFAN-type caller; believing -- like you said -- that the rest of baseball is ready and willing to spread their cheeks for Cashman simply because "we're the Yankees."

I think Cashman gets (and deserves) a ton of flack for his inability to acquire top-of-the-rotation pitchers via trade. If you look at the Yankees history of acquiring pitchers at the deadline it's got some wildly underwhelming results. There was the prospect-hugging that hurt (decided against Cliff Lee because they didn't want to trade Andrew Brackman), there was the 'meh, who cares' moves (JA 'it's pronounced Jay' Happ and Lance Lynn.) And when he did pull the trigger on getting rid of a few prospects, like the case with Sonny Gray, it was just something that didn't work.

(Editor's note: we've also gotten lucky. Yankees offered Dellin Betances, Gary Sanchez, and Luis Severino to the Phillies for Cole Hamels. Phillies wanted Banuelos instead, and the Yankees said no. So... phew.)

Regardless, it's scary times in Yankee land. Best record in baseball? Yep. But we don't have a single starter with an ERA below 5. Zero. Zilch. Guys like Tanaka are either spectacular (to the tune of CGSO spectacular) or absolutely miserable (in 2 starts against the red sox, he has a combined 1.1 IP and 13ER). Guys like Paxton can't get out of the first inning (10.74 ERA) , and you're spending 3 hours watching the team try to climb back from a 4-0 hole. 

I'll go on the record saying that if the Yankees don't acquire a Syndergaard or Bauer type ~#2 pitcher, this is going to be a very bitter and short offseason. 

Re: the bolded, you meant "ERA below 4"...four of the Yankee starters are below 5.00, but yeah, obviously reasons for concern...Tanaka's season ERA has soared from 3.21 to 4.79 over his last 5 starts, though it's obviously his last start that really blows up the sample. 

Not sure anyone not named deGrom in the Mets' rotation would be much of an upgrade over what the Yanks currently have.  Syndergaard just gives up too many hits, and his control has not been as terrific as it once was...in Syndergaard's last 311.1 IP, he's allowed 301 hits...and this season, just about every time he turns in a "Finally, there he is!" kind of outing, he follows it up with a lot of meh-ness:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=syndeno01&t=p&year=2019

Check out his run of starts just after one of his truly dominating performances.  They're usually very mixed-bag. 

Big strength for the Yanks of course is their BP, though one has to wonder how much longer Chapman, Britton, and Ottovino will continue to get away with walking guys. 

And yeah, you can get on Cashman for not getting enough good starting pitching...sure, true top-of-the-rotation guys are hard to find (and keep in mind that deGrom was originally ranked behind Syndergaard and friggin' RAFAEL MONTERO as they were all coming up through the system...sometimes guys like deGrom wildly surpass expectations), but you'd think Cashman would've done better than he has in this regard.  One aspect that makes it difficult for Cashman is not knowing how some guys will handle NY until they're thrown into it.  For every CC and El Duque that can handle the spotlight just fine, you have your Ed Whitsons, Steve Trouts and Jeff Weavers.  And sometimes it's hard to tell until they're here. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Part of Syndergaard (and Mets starters in general) being asked to go deeper into games has to do with the Mets BP being a complete catastrophe.  Noah would probably be able to go 6 most nights as a Yankee, give up 3 or 4 runs, and still have a solid chance to win.  The Yankee pen can hold teams, and the Yankee offense is plenty dangerous when it's cranking. 

Noah's had an odd year...if you look at how he's pitched from May on, his numbers look pretty good at quick-glance:  14 starts, 92.2 IP, 84 H, 37 ER, 9 HR, 26 BB, 87 K, 3.59 ERA, 6-2 record (Mets went 8-6 in those games)...yeah, I can see why a lot of fans would want their teams to get a guy like that, especially if they don't watch him pitch as much as Mets fans do.  But all I can say is he hasn't looked nearly as good as those numbers seem to suggest.  Something's missing...with Noah, so many nights it seems like something's just a tad off.  And he's never really become a pitcher...watch deGrom, and THAT'S a guy who's a pitcher.  Noah's a thrower.  Maybe he needs to go somewhere else with a firmly entrenched pitching coach to get through to him.  He's gone from Dan Warthen to Dave Eiland to the Cryptkeeper (the 82-year-old current PC of the Mets whose name I don't even remember right now) in a fairly short period of time...he could probably use a guy like Leo Mazzone or Dave Duncan at this point. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Part of Syndergaard (and Mets starters in general) being asked to go deeper into games has to do with the Mets BP being a complete catastrophe.  Noah would probably be able to go 6 most nights as a Yankee, give up 3 or 4 runs, and still have a solid chance to win.  The Yankee pen can hold teams, and the Yankee offense is plenty dangerous when it's cranking. 

Noah's had an odd year...if you look at how he's pitched from May on, his numbers look pretty good at quick-glance:  14 starts, 92.2 IP, 84 H, 37 ER, 9 HR, 26 BB, 87 K, 3.59 ERA, 6-2 record (Mets went 8-6 in those games)...yeah, I can see why a lot of fans would want their teams to get a guy like that, especially if they don't watch him pitch as much as Mets fans do.  But all I can say is he hasn't looked nearly as good as those numbers seem to suggest.  Something's missing...with Noah, so many nights it seems like something's just a tad off.  And he's never really become a pitcher...watch deGrom, and THAT'S a guy who's a pitcher.  Noah's a thrower.  Maybe he needs to go somewhere else with a firmly entrenched pitching coach to get through to him.  He's gone from Dan Warthen to Dave Eiland to the Cryptkeeper (the 82-year-old current PC of the Mets whose name I don't even remember right now) in a fairly short period of time...he could probably use a guy like Leo Mazzone or Dave Duncan at this point. 

Thing with Noah is that does he have the cerebral makeup to become anything other than a thrower? I'm not saying he's an idiot but along with the pitching coach...I think he could use a smart catcher who calls a good game behind the plate. Someone he can trust and think for him at times

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Suffice it to say with Paxton now getting rocked, that I’m sure there’s some serious panic going on in Yankeeland.  The question is how stiff of a price is Cashman willing to pay to bring in a starter?  Also hurts them that there’s not that second deadline anymore.  The time is now for them.

[NJDevs4978]

So now the latest scuttlebutt is the Mets trying to trade Thor, then turning around and trading pieces in that deal for Stroman.  I mean I'm actually not averse to Stroman but I'm not sure how likely it is he re-signs either since he's up for FA a year earlier than Thor, and it seems like we're gonna get too cute for the sake of BUT WE GOTTA COMPETE IN 2020!

Edited July 28, 2019 by NJDevs4978

['7']

2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

So now the latest scuttlebutt is the Mets trying to trade Thor, then turning around and trading pieces in that deal for Stroman.  I mean I'm actually not averse to Stroman but I'm not sure how likely it is he re-signs either since he's up for FA a year earlier than Thor, and it seems like we're gonna get too cute for the sake of BUT WE GOTTA COMPETE IN 2020!

I'd be fine with that. I mean Stroman in this insane hitters environment to be putting up the numbers he has is impressive...but yea I doubt he signs here. This whole thing seems like far too ambitious an endeavor for the Mets

['7']

And how typical is this. Go up 6-0 and the Mets don't even try the rest of the game. Because 6-0 in inning 1 means game over. 

Of course the Pirates are now chipping away. A game that we should've been up 12-2 is now competitive

I don't care what stats they run up there for Vargas he is such smoke and mirrors. I will never trust him or feel comfortable with him on the mound, but at least he's not the 8 era clown he was when we first brought him here.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Impossible to trust Diaz right now...good lord.

Mets somehow 10-4 in their last 14, even with many of their usual faults often on full display.  Can’t help but wonder if “Right Now” BVW suddenly decides that his Mets are in it again, and decides that even if he’s not necessarily a buyer, he won’t be a seller either.  

[NJDevs4978]

Oh boy, MLB Network floating a rumor that Stroman's coming to the Mets.  Hold onto your seat belts.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

Now official according to Heyman, like Dano would say...oh boy.  I didn't think we had enough in the farm system to get him without first trading Thor.  Gotta be Anthony Kay going in this deal (among others) if it's a prospect trade, probably one of our SS prospects too.

[NJDevs4978]

4 minutes ago, MB3 said:

This is the most confusing trade ever. 

I have no idea how to even begin to rationalize it. His deal expires after next season. Why pay a deadline price for him? If you needed pitching why trade Thor at his lowest possible value?

what the fvck is happening

They probably still think Thor's at his highest value given that he's healthy and the control he has left (2.5 seasons) a la the Archer deal last year.  That MUST be your template if you trade Thor now.

As for Stroman he's a local kid and they probably feel they can sign him long-term.  I should be excited about this deal but because it's Brodie I'm dreading what we gave up.  If it's something stupid like Conforto AND prospects I give up.  As it is Kay, Gimenez/Mauricio and Dom Smith would probably roll my eyes but not be the worst-case I fear.  That's pretty much all we have to give up apart from using Baty or Allan as a PTBNL - but I doubt they'd do that.

Funny thing is this afternoon is one of the few times I've ever had the MLBN on during their wraparound show and it just so happens now is when all hell breaks loose.

Edited July 28, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

1 minute ago, MB3 said:

But with a guy like Stroman; if you wanted him why are you paying the trade deadline tax to get him? Mets were bidding against at the very least Houston, Minnesota and the Yankees for this guy. 

It’s the weirdest trade I think I can ever remember.

Welcome to Brodieworld.

[NJDevs4978]

Supposedly it's 'pitching prospects' going to the Blue Jays in the deal...calculated guess is Anthony Kay and an 18-year old kid Simeon Woods-Richardson who has even higher long-term upside.  Gotta clear out ALL the Sandy picks!

Edited July 28, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

Well in addition to the trade deadline tax the Yankees would have also had to pay a division rival tax on top of it.  It wouldn't shock me at all if the Blue Jays gave the Yankees an unrealistically astronomical price ESPECIALLY with the fear he'd re-sign there.

But yeah as much as I wouldn't want the Mets to give up Woods-Richardson (NYFS is already freaking out about the rumor his name is in the deal) I would actually have been surprised the Blue Jays would take him and Kay as the main headliners unless they really are pathologically trying to pick the team he signs with.

Edited July 28, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Kay is reportedly not in the deal. 

And I guess there’s some intra-division tax, but the jays just traded Sogard to the Rays and last year traded Happ to the yanks. 

Those guys were straight rentals although Happ did wind up re-signing with the Yankees.  Still, it's a little different dealing them and dealing a guy you might have to look at six series a year for the next 7-8 years.

I'd really be shocked if it was SWR and lower-level guys in the deal...I might actually have to give Brodie credit but I'm waiting for the poison pill somehow involved, or for Stroman to say his dream was to pitch for the Yankees after he signs with them as a FA.

Edited July 28, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

Just now, MB3 said:

Stroman’s been outspoken about the fact that it’s his dream to pitch for the Yankees. He grew up going to games in the Bronx. Idolized El Duque. Comes on R2C2, a Yankee podcast, very frequently. 

Well that's just peachy.  Of course you never know what happens in FA, Beltran wanted to play for the Yankees too.  Then again they stupidly didn't want him but Cashman would be all over Stroman if he ever got to FA.

And apparently Kay IS in the deal too

 

 

[NJDevs4978]

Even I as a Brodie cynic don't hate this deal though you just know somehow SWR will be the new Kelenic next year that we have to hear about skyrocketing up the prospect lists.  I just find it comical how quickly Brodie burned the Sandy system to the ground (sans Alonso and McNeil, who he almost did trade over Kelenic).

Now we'll just have to sweat out Stroman re-signing and WTF else Brodie does at the deadline.

Edited July 28, 2019 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Olney makes a good point. A ton of Stroman’s success is the fact that he’s a groundball machine. The Mets infield defense is... 

well it’s not good

I saw that too but what exactly is the Blue Jays' infield defense?  Smoak, Galvis and the two kids aren't exactly Olerud, Ventura, Ordonez and Alfonzo circa 1999.

[NJDevs4978]

lol at least he had the JT pajamas type kid picture ready

 

[Daniel]

42 minutes ago, MB3 said:

With the reports that wheeler, Syndergaard and Diaz are all being shopped I am just so confused. 

“Are you buyers or sellers?”

”yup”

It seems like the idea is for them to be the only seller.