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2019 New York Mets Season Thread

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One guy who I thought was on his way to jersey retirement and then petered out is Edgardo Alfonzo. I think he may have lied about his age as well. Very odd to see him be a top 15 in MVP voting in 3 of 4 years and then just sputter and eventually settle in to a pretty good but nothing special guy in San Fran. 1997-2000 were 4 awesome years. 

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Didn't Fonzie have back problems?  That can derail anyone, ask Mattingly.  His prime was pretty much over at 28 and his career as a whole was basically over at 31.  Even if he fudged his age by a couple years it's still an insanely short prime/career.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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16 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I'm sure we'll go through this when the official announcement is made but there are actual reasons to retire Wright's number...several HOF caliber seasons, a 162-game average of .296-25-99 with 20 SB's, a career Met who was a long-term captain and an exemplary example off the field.  Yeah you would have liked a World Series win or a better postseason among the 'two' he got to play in but ultimately part of number retirement is can you see anyone else wear the number and with how long his career was and how tied he is to the Mets I'd say no, you can't really see anyone else wear the number.

Four definite H-O-F years...his first four.  You could probably include 2010 and 2012 in there too. 

He was actually better than I would've expected after those four terrific seasons...from 2009 on, he slashed .286/.366/.458 and had an OPS+ of 128.  His per-162 game averages were no longer dominant, but they were solid (39 2B, 21 HR, 89 RBI, 20 SB, 78 BB, 146 K).

My issue with him from those seasons on will always be the same...I can't forget the constant failures in big spots, because he had an insane amount of them...either a double play or a K (and so many of those Ks seemed to come on 3-2 counts).  There was definitely a sad-sack, loser vibe to him.  I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, and I know he compiled his way into owning his fair share of franchise offensive records, and as late as 2013 he still had a lifetime BA over .300...but it just seems weird to celebrate someone who came up small so many times.  Like we've been over, Francesa really wasn't off base when he ranted about how Wright and Reyes so often never seemed to get that big hit. 

And I know he kept trying to come back from spinal stenosis, and on that level I feel very badly for him, with what he had to go through, but it got to the point where it felt like he expected the Mets to just keep the door open for him forever.  It did feel selfish at times, at the Mets' expense.

And speaking of Reyes, if by "catching up", the Mets decide that Reyes' #7 gets retired one day, I'm really going to lose my sh!t.  That would be a fvcking travesty.

 

Re:  Koosman, that's the equivalent of the Rangers retiring Ratelle.  I'm sorry, if you need several decades to think about it, then you probably shouldn't do it.  And in some ways for a guy like Koosman (who I'm sure feels honored anyway), it's bittersweet, because many people watching won't have clear memories of his time with the Mets, and there's people who he would've loved to have shared this moment with him who've now passed. 

'7', Graves was a legit retirement...not only might he have been one of ultimate overachievers ever to play, he was a borderline saint off the ice...a true community guy who's always represented his organization in the best way possible.  He had some fine years as a Ranger...his retirement was almost as much about Graves the person as it was about Graves the player.  There was plenty to celebrate there...the Rangers are definitely cheesy at times and one of these decades they'll stop finding excuses to keep celebrating 1994 over and over again, but I don't lump Graves into the cringey category. 

Agree on Stengel's #37 to an extent...maybe you had to be there to get it...obviously, we weren't. 

 

So now that the Mets are basically fully done, NOW Garbage Time suddenly turns into a hero.  Friggin' Conforto...where the fvck were you for most of September...you know, when the team actually NEEDED some production from you?!  Watch him go on a rampage and somehow wind up with 100 RBI.  He has 33 HR and 91 RBI now, but man it sure doesn't feel anything near that good with him.  He really is the second coming of Nick Swisher. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Looks like all deGrom has to do is be his usual dominant self tonight, and he'll take home his second Cy Young.  He'll be only one of a handful of pitchers to go over 200 IP in the NL this season, and he leads in a number of categories (WAR, WHIP, K), and in the lesser-known metrics departments, he pretty much cleans up.  And no one can say that he didn't pitch under high-pressure situations, because his team managed to stay in the WC chase for a solid 10 weeks or so, where he was the only guy who could be counted on to perform in just about every start.  There's others who are worthy, but deGrom truly had the best all-around year...and unlike some other potential candidates (like Ryu and Scherzer), he stayed healthy and never dropped off...Scherzer has a 4.62 ERA in his last seven starts, and Ryu has a 3.87 ERA in his last 13 starts.  And both missed starts and won't come close to 200 IP. 

 

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Yeah I think we can all agree retiring Reyes would be hideous. Don’t get me wrong at one point he was a franchise icon and I thought he would have been headed for a number retirement if he stayed but he didn’t, left the last game to protect the batting crown then got his off the field stain and that ended that.

I’ve seen the Swisher comparison with Conforto before but hot damn I didn’t realize how on the nose it was till I looked up career splits

Swisher .249-26-85 .351 OBP per 162

Conforto .251-30-86 .351 OBP per 162

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18 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Yeah I think we can all agree retiring Reyes would be hideous. Don’t get me wrong at one point he was a franchise icon and I thought he would have been headed for a number retirement if he stayed but he didn’t, left the last game to protect the batting crown then got his off the field stain and that ended that.

I’ve seen the Swisher comparison with Conforto before but hot damn I didn’t realize how on the nose it was till I looked up career splits

Swisher .249-26-85 .351 OBP per 162

Conforto .251-30-86 .351 OBP per 162

Re:  Reyes, and his second stint here was pretty painful on the whole.  Especially the second year.  Also another guy who seemed to disappear in September.  Wright and Reyes never scared anyone in big spots.  I feel like McNeil and Alonso are far more fearsome in such situations. 

Sadly I could see Conforto being as equally invisible as Swisher come playoff time (though he did hit in his first World Series).  Hopefully the Mets can there so that we can find out.  Would love to see Alonso get some playoff ABs sooner than later. 

It's funny, Swish was such a lovable and complete doofus as a Yankee that it's too bad that he was SUCH a playoff bust there.  He would've been an incredibly easy guy to embrace. 

 

Anyway, some numbers that flesh out Conforto in 2019, courtesy of baseball reference:

Awful in late and close situations.

At his best in the early innings, in games that aren't close, and in games where his team is already ahead.  Also at his best in low leverage situations

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=confomi01&year=2019&t=b

Doesn't look like he's been all that much better for his career either:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=confomi01&year=Career&t=b

 

Basically, Conforto's a guy who can help his team jump out to an early lead, and can get some cherry-on-top HR and RBI for you if you're already ahead.  Just don't ask him to come through in the later innings with your team down.  Last night was a major exception. 

 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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I don't even know if I can count last night as a true clutch moment. It's not officially over yet...but it's still pretty much over with us hanging by a thread. I doubt Conforto or the Mets were feeling much of the pressure last night. It was very much a late April crowd too. These are "meaningful" games, but not really

I can see the Mets having a Jose Reyes night, but absolutely no number retirement under any circumstance, but one where they pay tribute to him during the game, play his highlights on the socreboard, have a bunch of Jose Jose Jose chants etc

Edited by '7'

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Just now, '7' said:

I don't even know if I can count last night as a true clutch moment. It's not officially over yet...but it's still pretty much over with us hanging by a thread. I doubt Conforto or the Mets were feeling much of the pressure last night. It was very much a late April crowd too. These are "meaningful" games, but not really

Yeah I said that in an earlier post...this is pretty much Garbage Time now, so I'm not at all surprised that Conforto finally came through with no pressure, and did his damage against a lousy team to boot.  I really don't like cosmetic stat guys, and I think Conforto has proven himself to be every bit that. 

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3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah I said that in an earlier post...this is pretty much Garbage Time now, so I'm not at all surprised that Conforto finally came through with no pressure, and did his damage against a lousy team to boot.  I really don't like cosmetic stat guys, and I think Conforto has proven himself to be every bit that. 

I had no idea his 2 outs RISP was in the 220's too...and yet his OBP in those situations is well over .400. He's always had a good eye, but in those situations you need to have confidence in your own ability to swing the bat. Not pass the buck.

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Just now, '7' said:

I had no idea his 2 outs RISP was in the 220's too...and yet his OBP in those situations is well over .400. He's always had a good eye, but in those situations you need to have confidence in your own ability to swing the bat. Not pass the buck.

Swish had that too...the ability to draw walks, which has a way of making some guys' numbers look better than they "feel".  Yeah, Conforto will be a solid OB% guy, and has enough power that he should always put up a respectable OPS...you'll find your fair number of sabes guys who will likely defend him.  But when you really NEED him to come through...ugh.

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Welp the Mets are definitely getting eliminated tonight after the Brewers' six-run first, but at least Jake and Alonso are having one more celebration of their terrific seasons at Citi.  Alonso with #51 and I figured they wouldn't get eliminated on Jake's watch anyway even before they took a 7-0 lead.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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NOW deGrom gets some damned support.  Man as fun as this team was to watch at times this year, they could be so friggin’ INFURIATING.  

Pete with a legit shot to break the ML record for HR by a rookie...man what a find this guy’s been.

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Jake finishes his season with a 2.43 ERA...and plenty of other fine numbers.  Guy is winning another Cy...just can’t make a case for anyone else. 

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I do hope he gets his 2nd Cy Young. This is really an unbelievable first 6 years of deGroms career. He's either been great or very good. You can really barely remember any stretches of mediocrity. There have been some (when he was tipping his pitches) or when we thought he was a bit banged up...but he quickly righted that ship.

 And by great I mean Hall of Fame level great. Shame the offense and the pen have blown so many W's for him

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I saw the list posted of guys who've won back-to-back Cy's...it really is a who's who of baseball other than a couple of outliers

 

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Of course you can't trust the Mets front office but they have a lot to build upon for 2020. While this year was agony in terms of the bullpen meltdowns and just plain bad luck, going forward we really have an offense and pitching staff to be reckoned with. If they can just build even an average pen this team should easily win 90  if not more. We have such a nice core in their primes with guys like Alonso, deGrom, McNeil, Nimmo etc. and even guys we're critical of and don't necessary trust like Conforto make decent complimentary pieces...the days of Eric Young Jr and Andrew Brown in the lineup seem forever ago. The time is now though. They have to acquire the bullpen pieces and be ruthlessly aggressive in doing so. deGrom deserves a solid 3-4 year run here of World Series contendership. Alonso needs the October spotlight so he can captivate a nation much like he does with us. There is really something positive brewing here...and let's hope they find a manager that can actually think a few steps ahead rather than than the inept dullard taking up space in the dugout now

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1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I saw the list posted of guys who've won back-to-back Cy's...it really is a who's who of baseball other than a couple of outliers

 

 

Lincecum feels like forever ago. When he was on he was fun to watch but he was pretty much shot at 27

Two more seasons like this for deGrom and I have to believe he's hall of fame worthy. The wins will never be there but who cares, if deGrom has 6 sub 3.00 era seasons to his name that is elite pitching for a plenty long enough peak

Edited by '7'

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8 hours ago, '7' said:

I do hope he gets his 2nd Cy Young. This is really an unbelievable first 6 years of deGroms career. He's either been great or very good. You can really barely remember any stretches of mediocrity. There have been some (when he was tipping his pitches) or when we thought he was a bit banged up...but he quickly righted that ship.

 And by great I mean Hall of Fame level great. Shame the offense and the pen have blown so many W's for him

Too early for Hall of Fame talk.  But if he can double his current sample of work, and win a third Cy, you can definitely start to talk about it.  He’ll have to be one of those short-term dominance guys.  And hopefully if he ever got to the point where he could be considered a legit candidate, there won’t be any idiots voting who say “He didn’t know how to win”.  

In the end, his numbers this year were very close to what he did last year...main difference was he allowed 19 HR this season after giving up 10 last season.  He put up a 1.89 ERA over his last 23 starts...even more amazing with clearly juiced balls flying out of ballparks everywhere.

Fatso was talking about a deal that would send Syndergaard, Diaz, and Dom Smith to the Red Sox for Mookie Betts.  I do that tomorrow if I could, every time.  

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7 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Too early for Hall of Fame talk.  But if he can double his current sample of work, and win a third Cy, you can definitely start to talk about it.  He’ll have to be one of those short-term dominance guys.  And hopefully if he ever got to the point where he could be considered a legit candidate, there won’t be any idiots voting who say “He didn’t know how to win”.  

In the end, his numbers this year were very close to what he did last year...main difference was he allowed 19 HR this season after giving up 10 last season.  He put up a 1.89 ERA over his last 23 starts...even more amazing with clearly juiced balls flying out of ballparks everywhere.

Fatso was talking about a deal that would send Syndergaard, Diaz, and Dom Smith to the Red Sox for Mookie Betts.  I do that tomorrow if I could, every time.  

Betts is one year removed from being an MVP. That trade would be almost a slam dunk win for us. I'd be stunned if Boston considered this. Diaz would be under the same microscope there as he was here...and crumble. 

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Supposedly the Sox like Syndergaard.  The feeling with Diaz would be that this season was a freakish anomaly (some might be encouraged by his still-high K totals), and that he's only a year removed from a top-flight season for a closer.  And Dom Smith is simply expendable by being stuck behind Alonso, and not really being a natural defensive talent anywhere other than first base.  If the Sox wanted some lower level prospect in addition, I'd have to give it to them.  I'd still consider it a big win for the Mets. 

The big catch:  Betts is headed into his final arbitration year and will be a FA after 2020.  The Mets would have to be willing to act like a big-market team for once and actually pay him.  I'm skeptical that any team owned by this version of the Wilpons will ever be willing to spend big market money. 

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 @SNYtv

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Multiple people connected to the Mets will be surprised if Mickey Callaway returns as manager next season, per @martinonyc https://on.sny.tv/eYN7ChK

3:10 PM - 26 Sep 2019

Can't get too giddy. Nothing official, and it's the Mets...believe me they could find somebody worse to replace him

Edited by '7'

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Mickey absolutely has to go...

...but yeah, the Mets could absolutely fvck this up royally.  Girardi would be perfect, but no way the fvcking Wilpons pony up for him.

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BVW...before you get too full of yourself for whatever success you think you had this season...there’s your boy Diaz giving up yet ANOTHER longball.  Remember what you gave up to bring him and Cano here.  

And oh yeah...you’ve got Familia for two more years at $10 million per.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Of course Diaz gives us at least one last reminder of how much he sucks before the offseason.

Wheeler, man I wouldn't want to make that call in the offseason.  He was so injury-prone earlier in his career I'd still be scared of giving him a big money deal, but you can't really argue with the results the last two years.  He's been the Mets' second best pitcher bar none and now healthy to boot.  Plus Brodie seems to be fascinated with the idea of trading Syndergaard (who doesn't seem to want to be here anyway) so we'd be out two pitchers if Wheeler walked and the artist formerly known as Thor got traded.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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I’m not a huge Wheeler guy, but I’d probably keep him over Syndergaard.  Just never sure what the Wilpons are willing to spend.  Of course BVW gave away any prospects that could have stepped in, because he doesn’t seem to think of them as anything more than trade chips.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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