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Kinkyisth3b3st

The Pavel Zacha Thread

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Mfitz need not reply. 

It seems like the forum cannot fvcking stand Pavel Zacha. I understand that we all wish he were Werenski or Provorov or Rantanen or Barzal, but he isn't. It isn't his fault we drafted him. But, holy sh!t guys -- that doesn't mean he isn't a useful player. That doesn't mean he can't turn into a top-6 forward. 

People seem to completely ignore how young he is when ripping on him. Before his 22nd birthday, he has 60 career points. Here's a list of current Devils players who've been able to amass 60 career points before their 22nd birthday:

  • Taylor Hall
  • Nico Hischier
  • Marcus Johansson
  • Pavel Zacha

Annnnnd.... scene. Das it. Bratt will unless he gets injured, but that brings the list to 5. 

It boggles my mind that everyone is ready to give up on twenty-fvcking-one year old Pavel Zacha. 21. Parise didn't even see NHL ice until his 21 year old season. He's two and a half years younger than Will Butcher! Give him some time before jumping down his throat in every single fvcking postgame thread.

Or don't. I can't tell you what to do.

But I love Pavel Zacha and you should too. 

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Posted (edited)

I think Zacha has actually been really good lately save for the two turnovers against Arizona and Vegas, like you said he's only 21 right now and it's not like he looks like some useless plug out there. You can make the argument he's one of the best defensive forwards on this team already and his production I think has looked pretty serviceable since his call-up. I liken him a little bit to Sean Couturier who the Flyers drafted 8th Overall back in 2011 - great defensive forward throughout his career and as he's matured he has developed into a legitimate top line center. Couturier didn't break the 40 point threshold until his 7th NHL season, and that was last year, how stupid would the Flyers look if they gave up on him when he was still a raw 21 year old?

I know it's frustrating watching guys like Barzal and Rantanen producing like stars at the same age, but ffs I wish this fan base would give the guy a chance. I think he gets WAY more hate than he deserves and it doesn't seem like it'll stop until he becomes Barzal as early as tomorrow.

Edited by CommonDreads
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He is my favorite Devil. 

45411387281_1ae62b32cc_b.jpg

I have said it before, he was brought up too soon because we had nothing going on. He should be making his NHL debut this season, not playing in his 200th game. 

And if he keeps giving the opponent the puck in front of our goalie, I will continue to crap on him. 

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also a fellow crapper here.  

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2 hours ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

But I love Pavel Zacha and you should too. 

I’m curious as to why? I mean, love? A couple nice plays every dozen games or so, and being the 3rd or 4th best defensive forward on the team? What’s he done that makes you love him so much? 

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4 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I’m curious as to why? I mean, love? A couple nice plays every dozen games or so, and being the 3rd or 4th best defensive forward on the team? What’s he done that makes you love him so much? 

Same reason I loved Adam Larsson. I think Zacha is oozing with potential and gets sh!t on more than his fair share here. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Same reason I loved Adam Larsson. I think Zacha is oozing with potential and gets sh!t on more than his fair share here. 

If you donate $10 to the site,  you can pick who I sh!t on for the next 2 games. I’ll leave Zacha alone while doing so. 

Edited by mfitz804

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6 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Same reason I loved Adam Larsson. I think Zacha is oozing with potential and gets sh!t on more than his fair share here. 

Zacha takes a step forward this year and finishes the season strong, exciting the fans about what could be to come..... this summer, Peter Chiarelli is hired as the new GM of the LA Kings, after getting a merciful axe in Edmonton.... Ray Shero calls to congratulate Chiarelli on his new gig, before turning the conversation in a more business toned direction.... before the conversation is through and the phones have been hung up, Ray Shero has acquired Drew Doughty in exchange for Pavel Zacha. The trade is one for one. 

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I get aggravated with Zacha at times, but I don’t hate him.  The youth argument is only going to last so long...but for now I’m trying to remain as hopeful as I can.

He hasn’t earned any “love” from me just yet.  We’ll see if he starts to make considerable progress in the second half.  This of course doesn’t mean much by itself, but there’s something mildly symbolic about the fact that he notched two assists in his first NHL game...and needed a half a season to garner the same total this year (not including the other two assists he had on opposing goals of course).

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Posted (edited)

Because people don’t see the potential anymore. You can usually see consistent strengths and improvements in a budding young player, but the only thing he does well is suck really bad night after night. The other thing which upsets people is that he is with the big club...let him develop in the minors, not up here where he adds little. He’s a head case and his failures up here don’t seem to be aiding in his progress.

Oh, and 21isnt that young anymore in the NHL. There are PLENTY of players that age contributing more than Zacha.

Edited by devlman
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The same sh!t every day... Zacha sucks and so have the rest of our draft picks over the last 10 years(save Nico). WE KNOW. WE fvckING KNOW. ALL OF US ALREADY KNOW. Can we go 3 days without bitching about IT? Otherwise hop in your hot tub time machines and do something about it. Holy sh!t. 

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It would be easy to stop if he would stop sucking, but there seems to be no end to that. 

Last game he turned over the puck and gave up a goal, it was a one goal game. You can argue he blew the game. 

Gane before we went to OT because he did the same damn thing. 

So two games in a row, two turnovers, two goals. We aren’t allowed to talk about that?

Granted, talking about draft order and drafting in general is a little annoying, since you can’t do anything about it. I try not to do that, I just focus on his performance. Or lack thereof. 

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5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

It would be easy to stop if he would stop sucking, but there seems to be no end to that. 

Last game he turned over the puck and gave up a goal, it was a one goal game. You can argue he blew the game. 

Gane before we went to OT because he did the same damn thing. 

So two games in a row, two turnovers, two goals. We aren’t allowed to talk about that?

Granted, talking about draft order and drafting in general is a little annoying, since you can’t do anything about it. I try not to do that, I just focus on his performance. Or lack thereof. 

It’s like this wasn’t a message board where people discussed Devils players! 3 sh!tty games in a row during a crucial stretch is fair grounds to discuss imo.

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Posted (edited)

I think Zacha brings a lot away from the puck while he tries to develop offensively. He's got great speed for a big guy and really excels on the defensive side. He also has a nice shot but still hasn't figured out how to get it off quick enough in the NHL. He might put up more points as a wing but he's best used at center when you consider his strength. The turnovers did suck, absolutely, but they happen and I have a feeling the coaches might have pointed that out to him a bit. 

I also think what hurts him most is his draft position (which is of course something he has no control over). If he were a 2nd or 3rd round pick, or hell, even a pick at 25 or 30, I think people would be fine with him developing. He should have been in the AHL when things slowed for him in his first NHL year. I know the plan was for him to be mentored by Elias, who ended up hurt. 

 

Edited by Devil Dan 56
Confused myself on his first season
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Lol, when did I say you’re not allowed to talk about it? I made the thread for Christ’s sake. 

I think he made some poor plays that a young kid is going to make. A player like him relies heavily on his size. His frame isn’t the same as a 26 year old. It will be, in — wait for it — 5 years.

Talk to me when he’s 23, 24 and hasn’t shown improvement. Stop giving up on these kids who are still on a rookie fvckin salary. It blows my mind that this forum has more ire directed towards a guy like Zacha and a guy like a Wood than they do towards a guy like Schneider (and his top-10 salary) or Johansson. 

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1 hour ago, devlman said:

Oh, and 21isnt that young anymore in the NHL. There are PLENTY of players that age contributing more than Zacha.

The average age of an NHL player according to the latest data I could find (ESPN article dated 2018) was 27.4. 

Since I know math isn’t your strong suit, 27.4 is 6+ years older than Pavel Zacha. 

You’re right, he isn’t Auston Matthews, tearing the league up at 21. Solid, solid observation.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

The average age of an NHL player according to the latest data I could find (ESPN article dated 2018) was 27.4. 

Since I know math isn’t your strong suit, 27.4 is 6+ years older than Pavel Zacha. 

You’re right, he isn’t Auston Matthews, tearing the league up at 21. Solid, solid observation.

Not what was said. Try again. And it’s not just Auston Matthews, its a lot of players in his draft class or any class after him. 

Edited by devlman

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1 hour ago, NJDevils1214 said:

The same sh!t every day... Zacha sucks and so have the rest of our draft picks over the last 10 years(save Nico). WE KNOW. WE fvckING KNOW. ALL OF US ALREADY KNOW. Can we go 3 days without bitching about IT? Otherwise hop in your hot tub time machines and do something about it. Holy sh!t. 

Bratt, Coleman, Blackwood, Smith (hasn’t played in NHL yet but looks extremely promising)...not all our picks have sucked. Just most of them. 

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9 hours ago, Kinkyisth3b3st said:

Lol, when did I say you’re not allowed to talk about it? I made the thread for Christ’s sake. 

You literally told me I need not reply as the first line of your initial post lol. 

But I was talking about NJDevils1214’s post right above mine. 

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Posted (edited)

While I am not enamored with Zacha's play (and yes, I really wish we had Barzal but that ship has sailed), my anger is not directed towards him as much as it is towards that buffoon Conte. 

That said, I hope Zacha improves. We'll see....

Edited by slasher72

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I think Zacha brings a lot away from the puck while he tries to develop offensively. He's got great speed for a big guy and really excels on the defensive side. He also has a nice shot but still hasn't figured out how to get it off quick enough in the NHL. He might put up more points as a wing but he's best used at center when you consider his strength. The turnovers did suck, absolutely, but they happen and I have a feeling the coaches might have pointed that out to him a bit. 

I also think what hurts him most is his draft position (which is of course something he has no control over). If he were a 2nd or 3rd round pick, or hell, even a pick at 25 or 30, I think people would be fine with him developing. He should have been in the AHL when things slowed for him in his first NHL year. I know the plan was for him to be mentored by Elias, who ended up hurt. 

 

I think this argument is silly.  He was pegged to be a top 10-15 pick at the time.  Therefore, multiple scouts/teams saw that he he had potential to be in that position and him going in the 2nd or 3rd round was not even a possibility.  I know there are outliers with scouts getting it wrong, but I am not going to use those to excuse Zacha being a supreme disappointment.

Also the age excuse is also silly.  The guy has played in almost 200 NHL games by now.  If that is still being considered "new" then where do we draw the line?  At his 300th or 400th game?

Zacha is and will be a bust.  I really hope I am wrong but Zacha continues to prove me right, unfortunately.  Whatever stat or metrics or standard you want to conjure up to make you feel better about his disappointing play is fine; just don't expect people to follow you right off that bridge.

Edited by DevsMan84
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2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

You literally told me I need not reply as the first line of your initial post lol. 

But I was talking about NJDevils1214’s post right above mine. 

I never said you can't talk about anything. I'm just tired of having to constantly hear about the draft picks and how good who NJ didn't take is vs who NJ did take. We already know. We don't need it rubbed in our faces CONSTANTLY. 

I accept the Zacha sucks thing isn't going away and I would never try to take that meme away from you fam. 

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The ‘Zacha sucks and is a bust’ meme is never going away. The people that hate him hate him, and that will not change. Dude could go full Rantanen and you’d still have people saying it. Once a narrative is cast on sh!t like this, it’s almost impossible to reverse. 

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14 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I get aggravated with Zacha at times, but I don’t hate him.  The youth argument is only going to last so long...but for now I’m trying to remain as hopeful as I can.

He hasn’t earned any “love” from me just yet.  We’ll see if he starts to make considerable progress in the second half.  This of course doesn’t mean much by itself, but there’s something mildly symbolic about the fact that he notched two assists in his first NHL game...and needed a half a season to garner the same total this year (not including the other two assists he had on opposing goals of course).

I feel exactly the same way.  Right now I think the jury is still out on him.  I'm disappointed in what he's shown so far, considering he was the #6 overall pick, but at the same time I recognize he's still young and it's still early.  He's shown occasional, albeit rare and few and far between, bright spots and moments of positivity.  At the same time, he's created some gaffs, and left us frustrated with things he has (or hasn't) done.  To me this is all par for the course, and it's growing pains (hopefully).  I give it another season or two and see if he can continue to mature, and hopefully produce.

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48 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I think this argument is silly.  He was pegged to be a top 10-15 pick at the time.  Therefore, multiple scouts/teams saw that he he had potential to be in that position and him going in the 2nd or 3rd round was not even a possibility.  I know there are outliers with scouts getting it wrong, but I am not going to use those to excuse Zacha being a supreme disappointment.

Also the age excuse is also silly.  The guy has played in almost 200 NHL games by now.  If that is still being considered "new" then where do we draw the line?  At his 300th or 400th game?

Zacha is and will be a bust.  I really hope I am wrong but Zacha continues to prove me right, unfortunately.  Whatever stat or metrics or standard you want to conjure up to make you feel better about his disappointing play is fine; just don't expect people to follow you right off that bridge.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying about the draft pick. I know he was picked where he should have been. I mean if this were a different player, I don't think people would mind a slow development. However, when you are chosen at 6 overall, there are certain expectations. For example, I would want him to be on a 40-50 point pace, and show improvement from his 28 point seasons in the past. But he's only on a roughly 22 point per 82 games pace. 

Basically I'm saying I agree with you, that he isn't doing what a 6th overall should. Where we differ is that I think he can still improve. He may never be a point per game guy, but I think he can definitely still develop into a useful player. 

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