Taylor Hall to AZ, 1st Rnd pick, 3rd Rnd Conditonal Pick, Bahl and 2 Prospects.Dvs Retain 50% salary

[DevsMan84]

5 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

The fact that he did let Elias walk and that he could have signed somewhere else is NOT a moot point at all. It shows how reckless his approach was.

You're the one looking at these situation in hindsight and finding excuses for each of them. It's not hindsight at all, you simply don't let these type of player get in a position where they can simply walk on you, it's that simple. Others GMs don't let that happen either unless there's some sort of situation. Lou did it just cause that was his way. Remember that time Crosby and ovechkin walked cause well... the caps and pens were in the playoffs so they couldnt trade them at the deadline.... oh right no. Of course they never let that happen.

The fact that you had to compare Parise and Elias to generational players like Ovechkin and Crosby shows how weak your argument is.

Again, playoff teams do not trade key pieces at the deadline because of the possibility of them leaving in the offseason.  That's what teams who are well outside the playoff picture do and not the reserve.  The Devils in 2007 with Gomez (and Elias) and 2012 with Parise were in that position.

Players sometimes stay, and they sometimes walk.  It happens.  Likely Panarin is gone after this playoff run, but if you ask any Blue Jackets fan if not trading him at the deadline is worth the deepest playoff run they have ever been on and they will take the current playoff run 10 times out of 10.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

My daughter stumbled onto Mean Girls last night while flipping channels, and this was the part that happened to be on:

CADY: I was a woman possessed. I spent about 80% of my time talking about Regina, and the other 20% of the time, I was praying for someone else to bring her up, so I could talk about her more…I could hear people getting bored with me, but I couldn't stop. It just kept coming up like word vomit.

 

[MadDog2020]

3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

You're allowed to just say "I watched Mean Girls last night". Unreal funny movie that still holds up. 

It’s a great movie.... but read the quote back to yourself and then consider what CR is getting at by posting it. Then consider the conversation that preceded him posting it....

Edited May 1, 2019 by MadDog2020

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, MB3 said:

You're allowed to just say "I watched Mean Girls last night". Unreal funny movie that still holds up. 

Lmao I won't even try to pretend that I haven't watched it start-to-finish more than once.  And yep, my daughter asked me what the movie was, and then asked how far into it it was at that point.  I told her pretty far, so she asked if we could watch it from the beginning sometime.  Yep, I told her we could.  And it does still hold up...if only Lindsay Lohan had held up...

[Nicomo]

Rachel McAdams is still as gorgeous as ever though. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

11 minutes ago, MB3 said:

she's miraculously as beautiful now at 40 than she was in her early 20s. 

And somehow looks at least eight years younger than Lindsay when she's actually eight years OLDER...

Edited May 1, 2019 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

The fact that you had to compare Parise and Elias to generational players like Ovechkin and Crosby shows how weak your argument is.

Again, playoff teams do not trade key pieces at the deadline because of the possibility of them leaving in the offseason.  That's what teams who are well outside the playoff picture do and not the reserve.  The Devils in 2007 with Gomez (and Elias) and 2012 with Parise were in that position.

Players sometimes stay, and they sometimes walk.  It happens.  Likely Panarin is gone after this playoff run, but if you ask any Blue Jackets fan if not trading him at the deadline is worth the deepest playoff run they have ever been on and they will take the current playoff run 10 times out of 10.

My argument is not weak. Give me ONE reason why you'd ever let your top players get in a position where they can walk and you lose them for nothing. give me ONE. And why you shouldnt try to sign them at the right time so that you have flexibility to make the best decision for the future of your team. Waiting last minute is giving up your leverage over your top assets. It's simply dumb. It's a bad business decision and there's no excuse to stick to an approach like that.

You're missing that it's not about trading them at the deadline or wtv. It's about knowing whats going on, have discussions in order to be able to be in the best position to manage your assets. Lou always went blind into the season gambling that they'd sign after the season, Elias called him out on it. It's simply dumb and the worst way to manage your assets. 

What was preventing Lou to sign Gomez before the season or Niedermayer? Again, Shero knows how it works. He dealt with the situation perfectly with Letang and Staal. It's funny that he never lost a big player to free agency and that Lou lost a bunch uh? 

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

If you're asking me to pick between an extra first round pick or two if we'd traded Parise, or the Henrique It's Over goal... well, that's a fvcking easy one. 

Well that's like saying "would you rather not smoke this one cigarette that will start an addiction and you get cancer in 20 years? Or not smoke that cigarette and live an extra 20 years" in hindsight it's very easy to pick.

It all comes down to the moment you make the decision, then you don't know how it will turn out. You may be fine but you have to know the risk. Not taking care of your assets and putting yourself in a position to lose them for nothing is like starting smoking. It's simply not smart. 

[SterioDesign]

7 minutes ago, MB3 said:

What a poorly thought out and terrible analogy, dear lord. 

How about; this is like you taking a helicopter ride on vacation in Hawaii. Chances are it’ll be a great time. But if it crashes and you burn up into a million little pieces it’s easy for you to say “damn I should not have gotten on that helicopter.”

If Parise made his intentions clear to Lou that “there’s no way I’m coming back next year” (which puts the situation close to Panarin), maybe he should’ve moved on. But that’s not what happened

Lou saw a solid opportunity to get Brodeur one last cup, to win with the Elias/Marty/Kovy/Parise era that likely would be losing a few of those guys to retirement soon enough. It’s not asinine to think “we have a good chance to do some damage AND keep our homegrown captain after this season”. Trading him certainly damages the chance to re-sign him AND damages the chance to win the Cup. 

You’re always an expert with the benefit of hindsight. 

haha your analogy is even worst cause getting on an helicopter is not a systematic bad decision. Smoking is and giving away leverage with your business assets is. Very different. And Parise couldnt make his intentions clear cause Lou refuses to talk contract during the season. Again, something Elias called out and didn't agree with.

Nobody thought we'd make it to the cup finals that year, we were huge underdogs. That's easy to ignore in hindsight. And sure if the Parise situation was he only time it happened i'd let that go. But no, that's systematically how he handled his UFAs. There's no excuses about wtv situations, its simply how he did it. And when players had a reason to leave they all did because he paved the way.

Seriously don't play the hindsight thing with me cause i called everything that would happen to this franchise BEFORE it happened BECAUSE of the way Lou handled things. And it all happened from A to Z. I'm not the one making excuses for every situations based on hindsight

Edited May 1, 2019 by SterioDesign

[SterioDesign]

Just now, MB3 said:

On February 21st, a few days before the trade deadline, we were 35-20-4. Solidly in a playoff spot and only 6 points behind the eventual 1-seed New York Rangers.

Time to trade the captain and blow it up! We might be able to draft Olli Maatta with that pick!!!!!!!

I never said to trade a player at the deadline, that's a very tough spot to put yourself in. Exactly how many times am i going to to give the example of how Shero dealt with his free agents in pittsburgh? He dealt with that during the summer. 

Lou should have never signed Parise to that 1 year. You sign him long term or you move on. Just like Shero did with Letang and Staal. 

But then the apologists will say that Parise was injured and that we didn't know how he'd come back. Oh. Well so that means Shero shouldnt sign Hall this summer based n that logic right? No. Shero has to deal with Hall this summer. That's how you protect your assets and don't wait to be in a position where your leverage is at its lowest. 

[Devil Dan 56]

26 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

 

Nobody thought we'd make it to the cup finals that year, we were huge underdogs. 

LA was the 8 seed that year. Anything can happen in the playoffs. Have you seen the first round this year? 

As for you strategy, trading every player that refuses to sign early pretty much just leaves you perpetually developing players for the rest of the league. 

Lastly, for someone who is glad the Parise thing is in the past, you sure like harping on it. 

[DevsMan84]

28 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I never said to trade a player at the deadline, that's a very tough spot to put yourself in. Exactly how many times am i going to to give the example of how Shero dealt with his free agents in pittsburgh? He dealt with that during the summer. 

Lou should have never signed Parise to that 1 year. You sign him long term or you move on. Just like Shero did with Letang and Staal. 

But then the apologists will say that Parise was injured and that we didn't know how he'd come back. Oh. Well so that means Shero shouldnt sign Hall this summer based n that logic right? No. Shero has to deal with Hall this summer. That's how you protect your assets and don't wait to be in a position where your leverage is at its lowest. 

You would have murdered Lou if he traded Parise in the 11-12 season.  I will also say that I don't think it would be a stretch that you would still be complaining about it to this day if it indeed happened.

Also about the bolded, you are forgetting the context.  Parise just came off a major knee injury where he missed almost the entire previous season.  It was definitely a "show me" contract.  If Parise suddenly became a 40-point player after signing a massive deal at that time you would have murdered Lou for that.  Also, Lou had an owner who was so broke, he had to take out a $30M loan during the 11-12 season from Barroway just to make payroll.

I am 100% convinced Lou could never win with you regarding Parise.

Edited May 1, 2019 by DevsMan84

[SterioDesign]

14 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

LA was the 8 seed that year. Anything can happen in the playoffs. Have you seen the first round this year? 

As for you strategy, trading every player that refuses to sign early pretty much just leaves you perpetually developing players for the rest of the league. 

Lastly, for someone who is glad the Parise thing is in the past, you sure like harping on it. 

It's not just about Parise it's about how Lou sucked at handling UFAs. Parise is not the only one we lost because of it.

And my "strategy" is Shero's strategy and simply a common sense strategy. (or basically any GM ouside of Lou's strategy for that matter...) And he never lost a top player for nothing and you should be glad he's the one handling our team now. When have you seen him "perpetually developing players for the rest of the league?"

Are you SERIOUSLY saying you'd rather Shero wait one week before Hall hit free agency next summer before he start talking contract extension with him? Is that REALLY what you want? 

[SterioDesign]

15 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

You would have murdered Lou if he traded Parise in the 11-12 season.  I will also say that I don't think it would be a stretch that you would still be complaining about it to this day if it indeed happened.

Also about the bolded, you are forgetting the context.  Parise just came off a major knee injury where he missed almost the entire previous season.  It was definitely a "show me" contract.  If Parise suddenly became a 40-point player after signing a massive deal at that time you would have murdered Lou for that.  Also, Lou had an owner who was so broke, he had to take out a $30M loan during the 11-12 season from Barroway just to make payroll.

I am 100% convinced Lou could never win with you regarding Parise.

I would not have murdered Lou if Parise wanted out at all. I'd be mad at Parise instead. The way it happened i don't blame Parise at all actually, Lou paved him the way to leave and he took the opportunity.

Why can't you guys understand it's NOT just about Parise. I'm against his way of handling UFAs. i had that problem with him long before Parise left. He did the same fvcking thing with all our top players and many left or could have left. That's how he did things and it was a horrible way to do it. It's not very hard to understand. 

[Devil Dan 56]

18 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

It's not just about Parise it's about how Lou sucked at handling UFAs. Parise is not the only one we lost because of it.

And my "strategy" is Shero's strategy and simply a common sense strategy. (or basically any GM ouside of Lou's strategy for that matter...) And he never lost a top player for nothing and you should be glad he's the one handling our team now. When have you seen him "perpetually developing players for the rest of the league?"

Are you SERIOUSLY saying you'd rather Shero wait one week before Hall hit free agency next summer before he start talking contract extension with him? Is that REALLY what you want? 

Shero also had a perennial contender and 2 of the best centers in the game. That being said, I am very comfortable with him handling our UFAs. I like the way he operates , but I'm also aware that this is not Pittsburgh in its prime. I think Shero will do great. I'm just not sure he can leverage quite the same here. If you tell a player that he has to sign of he's out and you missed the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years, he'll have his bags packed before you finish your sentence. 

As for waiting til the last second, it was reported that Lou and Zach were having talks as late as January 2012, right up until Parise signed with new representation and stopped talking contract publicly. 

I will admit that I was not the biggest fan of Lous rules and approaches, including his UFA strategy. I understood them and his philosophy, but i didn't necessarily enjoy them. I do see why he found them necessary. He needed players who were "all-in", especially with the broke and/or cheap owners he was dealing with. But I will also say not many of those UFAs that left set the world on fire after they left either. 

[NJDfan1711]

I can't go in this thread anymore.

[Devilsfan118]

26 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I can't go in this thread anymore.

And I can't help but feel like it's all my fault!

[Devil Dan 56]

7 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

And I can't help but feel like it's all my fault!

That avatar is amazing

[Daniel]

Sterio, I would recommend that you read the short story "How the Two Ivans Quarreled" by Nickolai Gogol before trying to revisit the circumstances of Zach Parise's departure from the team.

[Nicomo]

2 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Shero also had a perennial contender and 2 of the best centers in the game. That being said, I am very comfortable with him handling our UFAs. I like the way he operates , but I'm also aware that this is not Pittsburgh in its prime. I think Shero will do great. I'm just not sure he can leverage quite the same here. If you tell a player that he has to sign of he's out and you missed the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years, he'll have his bags packed before you finish your sentence. 

As for waiting til the last second, it was reported that Lou and Zach were having talks as late as January 2012, right up until Parise signed with new representation and stopped talking contract publicly. 

I will admit that I was not the biggest fan of Lous rules and approaches, including his UFA strategy. I understood them and his philosophy, but i didn't necessarily enjoy them. I do see why he found them necessary. He needed players who were "all-in", especially with the broke and/or cheap owners he was dealing with. But I will also say not many of those UFAs that left set the world on fire after they left either. 

Niedermayer, Rafalski, and Madden all went on to win Cups with their next teams. 

Gomez and Holik...yeah, not so much. 

[slasher72]

7 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

I would not have murdered Lou if Parise wanted out at all. I'd be mad at Parise instead. The way it happened i don't blame Parise at all actually, Lou paved him the way to leave and he took the opportunity.

Why can't you guys understand it's NOT just about Parise. I'm against his way of handling UFAs. i had that problem with him long before Parise left. He did the same fvcking thing with all our top players and many left or could have left. That's how he did things and it was a horrible way to do it. It's not very hard to understand. 

Lou did it because of his goddamn ego, let's be honest. It was HIS way or hit the highway. Many chose to hit the highway as a result. 

[mfitz804]

9 hours ago, slasher72 said:

Lou did it because of his goddamn ego, let's be honest. It was HIS way or hit the highway. Many chose to hit the highway as a result. 

Yet, not the guy with the biggest ego, he stayed. 

[Steadevils]

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but what do you guys think about signing Taylor Hall? The story I would sell him on:

This playoff year has shown how fast a team can rise in to contention. If he leaves to go to someone who will "contend" while he's in his prime he's chasing the dragon. Also, you want to be surrounded by young talent in your 33+ years when the statistical pressure to contend can be passed down and you can age out gracefully as the veteran leader whose "points might be down, but their off-ice presence is worth every penny". This is a really good pitch the owner's have now. Might have some homer-blinders on, but I truly believe we have 3 star forwards in the making. The World's will feature a 20 year old Bratt on the 1st line for Sweden (putting up some #'s and highlights in the warm up games), a 20 year old Nico leading the swiss (hat trick the other day), and a 17 year old American as the youngest ever to wear the stars and stripes for the adult squad. (Also Blackwood, but he might not get many minutes). Unless you are signing with the Avalanche I think you'd be hard pressed to find a squad that is better positioned for a sustained run of contention in the next 8 year period (iff D is solved by trade/fa/prospects/this years picks..big IF, but not that huge of an if given all the assets shero has to work with..). But back to being a leader. Hall in interviews has always been a guy who is aware of analytics and seems to live/breathe hockey. Nico/Hughes have this same trait. The veterans we do have are all ageing out..there is going to be a leadership void in the next 2 years and hopefully Hall sees that as an opportunity and seizes it. 

Also I'd pitch him by paying him money..yeah that is the other part of the sell..$$$$. 

Estimates?: https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/5/1/18518163/how-much-is-taylor-hall-worth-to-the-devils-and-for-how-long

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Steadevils

[mfitz804]

5 hours ago, Steadevils said:

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but what do you guys think about signing Taylor Hall? The story I would sell him on:

This playoff year has shown how fast a team can rise in to contention. If he leaves to go to someone who will "contend" while he's in his prime he's chasing the dragon. Also, you want to be surrounded by young talent in your 33+ years when the statistical pressure to contend can be passed down and you can age out gracefully as the veteran leader whose "points might be down, but their off-ice presence is worth every penny". This is a really good pitch the owner's have now. Might have some homer-blinders on, but I truly believe we have 3 star forwards in the making. The World's will feature a 20 year old Bratt on the 1st line for Sweden (putting up some #'s and highlights in the warm up games), a 20 year old Nico leading the swiss (hat trick the other day), and a 17 year old American as the youngest ever to wear the stars and stripes for the adult squad. (Also Blackwood, but he might not get many minutes). Unless you are signing with the Avalanche I think you'd be hard pressed to find a squad that is better positioned for a sustained run of contention in the next 8 year period (iff D is solved by trade/fa/prospects/this years picks..big IF, but not that huge of an if given all the assets shero has to work with..). But back to being a leader. Hall in interviews has always been a guy who is aware of analytics and seems to live/breathe hockey. Nico/Hughes have this same trait. The veterans we do have are all ageing out..there is going to be a leadership void in the next 2 years and hopefully Hall sees that as an opportunity and seizes it. 

Also I'd pitch him by paying him money..yeah that is the other part of the sell..$$$$. 

Estimates?: https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/5/1/18518163/how-much-is-taylor-hall-worth-to-the-devils-and-for-how-long

 

It’s a good synopsis...but he knows all of that already, you’ve stated the obvious. 

[Steadevils]

9 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

It’s a good synopsis...but he knows all of that already, you’ve stated the obvious. 

Well believe it or not I was giving my opinion and I wasn't actually trying to pitch him....unless he's a reader in which case....Hi Taylor a discount would be great!