Daniel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 minute ago, NewarkDevil5 said: I disagree wholeheartedly. After starting the season as a liability defensively he's honestly become one of our better players overall. Gusev is only useful to us if we were a team that could compete and we won't be this year and very likely won't be next year. After that, there's no way he's on the team anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Daniel said: Gusev is only useful to us if we were a team that could compete and we won't be this year and very likely won't be next year. After that, there's no way he's on the team anyway. I really don't understand your logic here. Is it because you think we'll lose him to free agency by the time we're competitive? We do need to ice some semblance of a hockey team in the interim. I don't think this is a Stanley Cup contender by any stretch with any coach as it stands with or without Hall and with most coaches, but once a real coach is in place this team has quite a bit of talent without Hall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, Daniel said: And by the way, if it is necessary to get the asset we need in a Hall trade, I would absolutely add Gusev to the deal. He's signed for only one more year and is absolutely the last thing a rebuilding team needs. We are not going into full rebuild mode again, there has been a down swing in the process, but we have most of the parts. We are a good head coach, a decent D man and a goaltending combo that aren't terrible away from being in contention IMO for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, NewarkDevil5 said: I really don't understand your logic here. Is it because you think we'll lose him to free agency by the time we're competitive? We do need to ice some semblance of a hockey team in the interim. I don't think this is a Stanley Cup contender by any stretch with any coach as it stands with or without Hall and with most coaches, but once a real coach is in place this team has quite a bit of talent without Hall. He's a UFA after next year. He is definitely of no use to the team this year and at the absolute most he's a key guy who helps some miracle turn around next year that gets us into the playoffs and again that is the absolute best case but highly unrealistic scenario. If adding Gusev is what it takes to get Byram, you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said: We are not going into full rebuild mode again, there has been a down swing in the process, but we have most of the parts. We are a good head coach, a decent D man and a goaltending combo that aren't terrible away from being in contention IMO for the playoffs. See the thread I created. We are entering into Rebuild 2.0. If Gusev is what you need to add to a Hall trade to get a truly A asset like a Bowen Byram, it's a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Daniel said: See the thread I created. We are entering into Rebuild 2.0. If Gusev is what you need to add to a Hall trade to get a truly A asset like a Bowen Byram, it's a no brainer. I don't agree that this is a new rebuild. From what we had when Ray came in we are miles ahead. This is a continuation of the process already under way. And of course if someone is willing to offer you a real top prospect in a deal or another high first or something then yeah you consider Goose in that but the team shouldn't be in a mode where they are looking for picks and prospects down the line just yet. The team needs to be kept competitive now. As has been alluded to before a losing culture develops if a team keeps losing. We need players to across the roster to at least make us competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said: I don't agree that this is a new rebuild. From what we had when Ray came in we are miles ahead. This is a continuation of the process already under way. And of course if someone is willing to offer you a real top prospect in a deal or another high first or something then yeah you consider Goose in that but the team shouldn't be in a mode where they are looking for picks and prospects down the line just yet. The team needs to be kept competitive now. As has been alluded to before a losing culture develops if a team keeps losing. We need players to across the roster to at least make us competitive. At this point, what Rays says counts for very little. Before the season is over Hall, Vatanen and Simmonds definitely will not be on the roster. We have no idea what Subban is anymore. Even if we end up with Byfield or Lefrennier, we are a lot worse than pretty much every team in the division. A team like that has no need to hold onto a player like Gusev in the last year of his deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Daniel said: At this point, what Rays says counts for very little. Before the season is over Hall, Vatanen and Simmonds definitely will not be on the roster. We have no idea what Subban is anymore. Even if we end up with Byfield or Lefrennier, we are a lot worse than pretty much every team in the division. A team like that has no need to hold onto a player like Gusev in the last year of his deal. If anything, Gusev would be unloaded at the trade deadline next season, or possibly the 2020 draft. It doesn't make much sense to unload him now, and I doubt someone is going to want to take on a potential 15 million plus in salary assuming they plan to re-sign Hall next season somewhere in the 10-12 million range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daniel said: See the thread I created. We are entering into Rebuild 2.0. If Gusev is what you need to add to a Hall trade to get a truly A asset like a Bowen Byram, it's a no brainer. As far as a rebuild goes, we're still waiting to know this. To me, Ray's most important quote yesterday was: Quote 'Obviously, change brings opportunity, not only for Alain Nasreddine, but for our players. This is an opportunity for them and to find out where we are and where we are going to go.” This says to me that Ray indeed is going to give it a few weeks to determine whether or not independent of the coaching variable, the players still suck. The minute we'll know "Rebuild 2.0" is in effect, is if Shero trades Hall for an A prospect and a pick. That says that the Devils are looking ahead a few years into the future and should trade away their players. And yes, they should trade Gusev if they get a good offer for him, why not? We don't really know what the long-term trajectory of Gusev is and if they lose Hall for a prospect they're unlikely to be good next year anyway. On the other hand, if Shero trades Hall for an established NHL player that's maybe not quite as good as Hall but still good (and of course a pick would come our way as well), then he's probably looking to play for the playoffs as soon as next year. This situation would probably mean the Devils keep Gusev and whoever else they can. Edited December 4, 2019 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Neb00rs said: The minute we'll know "Rebuild 2.0" is in effect, is if Shero trades Hall for an A prospect and a pick. That says that the Devils are looking ahead a few years into the future and should trade away their players. And yes, they should trade Gusev if they get a good offer for him, why not? We don't really know what the long-term trajectory of Gusev is and if they lose Hall for a prospect they're unlikely to be good next year anyway. Ehh, calling it Rebuild 2.0 means that we finished the first one. We're still rebuilding as far as I am concerned. To the extent that we thought Hall was part of the plan, and if traded he no longer is, then yes, I guess it's 2.0. However, if we took Adam Larsson and turn him into a true A+, maybe its just a long term part of 1.0. I don't know. Fvck hockey, too much stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Ugh. I thought we were coming out of the dark days. This feels like the story of Sisyphos or whatever. That guy that was forced to roll a Boulder up a hill for eternity only to have it roll back down when it got near the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Devil Dan 56 said: If anything, Gusev would be unloaded at the trade deadline next season, or possibly the 2020 draft. It doesn't make much sense to unload him now, and I doubt someone is going to want to take on a potential 15 million plus in salary assuming they plan to re-sign Hall next season somewhere in the 10-12 million range. Devils can easily retain the maximum of Gusev's salary if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils1214 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Daniel said: Devils can easily retain the maximum of Gusev's salary if necessary. He's also worth more under contract than as a rental, but maybe keeping him around would benefit player development. He's got a great offensive mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said: He's also worth more under contract than as a rental, but maybe keeping him around would benefit player development. He's got a great offensive mind. Again, if he's what it takes to land someone like Byram instead of magic beans, I'll leave it to coaches to do their job and develop our players. Maybe Ray can get that part right for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-code-conduct-coming-nhl/ This what Friedman says is going on: Quote 7. The Taylor Hall trade talks have intensified, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen at this time. “He’s trying,” another GM said of Shero. The Devils have made it clear they want first-rounders (although they are willing to discuss conditional situations, depending on the acquiring team’s ability to re-sign Hall or playoff results) and/or high-level prospects who are ready to play. They badly need defence, which is why there’s a lot of focus on Colorado as the perfect trade partner. The Avalanche have plenty of defensive prospects and think they can win. Several teams believe Arizona is making a serious effort. Hall is what they need, too. It’s believed Dallas and St. Louis are among other pursuers. 8. I do think Edmonton’s interested, but there’s a limit. I’m not convinced the Oilers will pay what New Jersey wants. I guess from St. Louis, the only realistic target would be Dunn. Don't think Kyrou or Klostin move the needle very much. Dallas has Harley whose a big left handed D who puts up points. If it's Colorado, I'm still saying Byram or bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Daniel said: Devils can easily retain the maximum of Gusev's salary if necessary. I'm not sure if ownership would agree. They are already paying Schneider to play in the AHL, plus Subban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: I'm not sure if ownership would agree. They are already paying Schneider to play in the AHL, plus Subban. Now that they won't be paying Hall $11 million a year for the next 8 years, they can afford to pay Gusev $2.2 million to play somewhere else next year if they're getting something good in return. They also won't be paying Andy Greene and Vatanen a collective $10 million next year. It's quite possible that next year they're close to being a floor team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyP. Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Also in Elliotte Friedman's dirty one thoughts: 10. Another Devil on the block is Miles Wood. He has two more years at a $2.75-million AAV, but isn’t as aggressive or edgy as he’s been in the past. Hopefully he gets back there, I liked his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Also in Elliotte Friedman's dirty one thoughts: 10. Another Devil on the block is Miles Wood. He has two more years at a $2.75-million AAV, but isn’t as aggressive or edgy as he’s been in the past. Hopefully he gets back there, I liked his game. Me too, Elliotte. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Crisis said: 5 minutes ago, JohnnyP. said: Also in Elliotte Friedman's dirty one thoughts: 10. Another Devil on the block is Miles Wood. He has two more years at a $2.75-million AAV, but isn’t as aggressive or edgy as he’s been in the past. Hopefully he gets back there, I liked his game. Me too, Elliotte. Me too. Looks like a guy that is content having got his payday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Personally I think he ran outta talent a while ago. Certainly a role you could fill for half the cost. Damn shame Blake is making drastically less. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 39 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said: Looks like a guy that is content having got his payday. Well he didn’t get THAT much...if he had another 20-25 goal season after his 19 goal season, he’s now worth double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 12 hours ago, JohnnyP. said: Also in Elliotte Friedman's dirty one thoughts: 10. Another Devil on the block is Miles Wood. He has two more years at a $2.75-million AAV, but isn’t as aggressive or edgy as he’s been in the past. Hopefully he gets back there, I liked his game. I'm curious how this guy knows who's on the "block". There isn't a formalized 'list' that GMs have that they're routinely adding and removing players from... I'd much rather him say "Sources have told me that GM Ray Shero is shopping Miles Wood around", and list those sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Everyone wants Bo from Colorado. I wonder to sweeten the deal to get THE guy - we include Butcher in on this deal. Hall/Butcher for Bo and 2nd rounder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, MB3 said: And I don't think there's such a thing as a "block" like you're thinking of it in a video game. Saying 'Ray Shero is shopping Miles Wood' is the same thing as saying with "Miles Wood is on the block." Right, that's what I meant. There isn't a 'list', so I am just curious how he would possibly know who is or isn't on GM's supposed trading block, outside of actually hearing it from the GM himself, a player's agent, or some other insider in and around the organization. Quote He's not going to list his sources -- that's not how it works. Friedman has earned enough of a solid reputation that his sources are real. I suppose. I don't really follow any writer or media type person, but I have heard of him. Still, it would be nice to know, and we've seen other people list their sources, as it lends a level of credence to it - otherwise I would just as well consider it a rumor. Perhaps a rumor with a high probability of coming true, but a rumor nonetheless. Edited December 5, 2019 by NJDfan1711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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