Nicomo Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, devlman said: Byram is an absolute stud and a first overall pick-level player. Would be over the moon if he came back in the deal. I’d imagine we’d have to sweeten the pot for Sakic to part with him. We think he’ll be a stud. He’s yet to play a single NHL game yet though. Just like with Ty Smith we won’t know until he’s actually in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, devlman said: Byram is an absolute stud and a first overall pick-level player. Would be over the moon if he came back in the deal. I’d imagine we’d have to sweeten the pot for Sakic to part with him. The thing with Byram though is that his point totals and especially his goal totals are way down to the point that he’s scoring goals at less than half the rate he did last year. And it was his goal scoring that really catapulted him into the top five in the draft, that and an insane post season. The other thing is that Colorado doesn’t need him, in the sense that he could turn into a complete bust, get injured or whatever, and they’re still going to be a very very good team for a while. Of course the fact that there might be some kind of regression could make the Devils less interested in him, or they can make it seem like that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 20 minutes ago, ajsgolf said: Not sure why people think they’d have to give up more than hall to get byram. Whoever gets hall, especially a team like Colorado is looking to win right now. If anything I think it should be the other way around. Devils are way off from being competitive again and if they ever plan to be anytime soon they better start with major roster changes since most have been $hit. Nothing fvcking changes and I’m now pissed writing this post at 12:30 am. I’m going to bed, fvcking tired and now mad. I’ve been hard on Shero and for the results we’ve seen, he deserves it. That said, if he can manage to get Byram, that will pretty much be better than any GM has done on a rental deal like this in a long time. All prospects come with risks, but the expectation is that he can step in and be a good defenseman next season, and would go a long way to shoring up the blueline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 6 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said: Hypothetically, I have to say if the rumors about Hall not being satisfied with year options that allegedly may have come up during these rumored "shopping" discussions, we might look like a real option for him. Looks like teams may be skeptical about throwing term at him with his current performance and injury concern. His slow start might be a 'good' thing for us, and we may just be able to lock him up. Pie in the sky maybe, but Daniel may be right with his Rebuild 2.0 comments. Just that though, and just maybe. I'm hesitant to offer Butcher. Yes he's been quiet, but he's a decent D and he CHOSE to come here. The last thing we need to do at this point is show we don't give a sh!t about 'loyalty' to any potential future players that pick us Loyalty Schmoyalty - it's a business. This kind of thing doesn't bother players as much as ya think. They gave him a nice pay increase, that's the loyal part. If Byram comes back the other way, I'll drive Butcher to the airport myself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 minute ago, HellOnICE said: Loyalty Schmoyalty - it's a business. This kind of thing doesn't bother players as much as ya think. They gave him a nice pay increase, that's the loyal part. If Byram comes back the other way, I'll drive Butcher to the airport myself. Lol agreed. There’s only 2 players who should be off the table as far as trades go, Nico and Hughes. If anyone else can help make the team better in a deal you have to do it. There’s guys like Palms, Coleman, and even Bratt that I would hate to lose, but like you said it’s a business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 I didn't realize Byram hasn't played any games yet - I thought this was his rookie season and I was going to look up his stats to see how he's been doing so far. I really can't believe it has come to this and I hate that it seems like all but a virtual certainty that we're losing Hall. I hate to lose him for basically an unknown quantity (Byram with no experience), because it's risky as hell, and although we need D help pretty bad, I hate to lose a player who is/should be an offensive powerhouse. Granted Hall's been snake-bitten this year so far, but he's still producing point-wise at a pretty nice clip, and this team isn't exactly overflowing with offensive talent at the moment. This really sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 9 hours ago, devlman said: Byram is an absolute stud and a first overall pick-level player. Would be over the moon if he came back in the deal. I’d imagine we’d have to sweeten the pot for Sakic to part with him. Man I would be ECSTATIC if we somehow managed to pry Byram from the Avs for Hall. It would make losing him a much easier pill to swallow, that's for sure. But we'd almost certainly have to: Include asset(s) along with Hall Retain on Hall's salary Eat a bad contract from Colorado No problem with 2 and 3, but it's not my money. I wonder what other assets would be required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said: This really sucks. It does suck. But a very real part of me thinks Hall will be a Parise 2.0 in that we'll look at him in a few years and be like "holy sh!t thank God that contract isn't on our books". I think Hall's a much better player than Parise ever was, but.. Idk, odds on him looking good for the next 6-8 years at 10m per? Doubtful. Edited December 6, 2019 by Devilsfan118 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 9 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said: I'm hesitant to offer Butcher. Yes he's been quiet, but he's a decent D and he CHOSE to come here. The last thing we need to do at this point is show we don't give a sh!t about 'loyalty' to any potential future players that pick us I have to brush up on the situation, but from memory I believe Butcher ditched Colorado for us and had an issue with Sakic. I'm not sure Sakic would want him if that was the case. Again I need to refresh my memory though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, Devil Dan 56 said: I have to brush up on the situation, but from memory I believe Butcher ditched Colorado for us and had an issue with Sakic. I'm not sure Sakic would want him if that was the case. Again I need to refresh my memory though he ditched colorado because he didn't feel he could make the team and thrive as he did his rookie year with NJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Regardless of Byram's bonafides as a prospect, until he plays an NHL game he's still just that, a prospect. Blue chip, yes, but even blue chip prospects can crash and burn at the NHL level. I'm okay with retaining some of Hall's salary but at worst the trade should be one for one with conditionally more if Hall re-signs. Hall is an established star with an MVP pedigree. Byram has never played an NHL game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: I have to brush up on the situation, but from memory I believe Butcher ditched Colorado for us and had an issue with Sakic. I'm not sure Sakic would want him if that was the case. Again I need to refresh my memory though I think it was Roy that he had an issue with. I could be remembering incorrectly, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, sundstrom said: he ditched colorado because he didn't feel he could make the team and thrive as he did his rookie year with NJ Colorado was coming off a year being worse than us, so I don't think that was it. I believe the issue he had with Sakic or Sakic had with him was the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Dumb question - can you retain on an extension? I'm guessing no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said: Dumb question - can you retain on an extension? I'm guessing no. if you're suggesting a sign and trade, yes you can. but the cost on the return would be so large that nobody would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 17 minutes ago, NewarkDevil5 said: Regardless of Byram's bonafides as a prospect, until he plays an NHL game he's still just that, a prospect. Blue chip, yes, but even blue chip prospects can crash and burn at the NHL level. I'm okay with retaining some of Hall's salary but at worst the trade should be one for one with conditionally more if Hall re-signs. Hall is an established star with an MVP pedigree. Byram has never played an NHL game. Would throwing in a Miles Wood or Pavel Zacha really be a dealbreaker though? I’d be perfectly fine giving up like half the guys on this roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nicomo said: Would throwing in a Miles Wood or Pavel Zacha really be a dealbreaker though? I’d be perfectly fine giving up like half the guys on this roster. For a guy who has never played an NHL game before? Yeah that's a bridge too far for me. NHL experience, even on bad teams, has a value. We had Adam Larsson and at the point before he'd played an NHL game many of us would have valued him in much the same way as Byram is valued, but all of us look back on trading him for Hall as a steal. He didn't develop into quite what we thought he would and that might have been partially due to coaching as well as some other holes in his talent arsenal that weren't focused upon at draft time but right now this team has not shown that it can coach to develop defensemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 20 minutes ago, NewarkDevil5 said: Regardless of Byram's bonafides as a prospect, until he plays an NHL game he's still just that, a prospect. Blue chip, yes, but even blue chip prospects can crash and burn at the NHL level. I'm okay with retaining some of Hall's salary but at worst the trade should be one for one with conditionally more if Hall re-signs. Hall is an established star with an MVP pedigree. Byram has never played an NHL game. Yeah, I understand teams always want to get younger, and that the theory is you bring in a guy before he's entering his prime so that you get him as he's maturing while he's cheap, and then through his prime years when he's at his peak, but as you said, Hall's a proven vet, and although his ceiling may have been reached, you still know more or less what you're getting out of him. I know you have to give to get, and that we're sort of stuck in the sense that we basically have to move this asset before it gets auctioned for free, but I'd be cautious about giving it up for essentially an unknown. Too many variables and things that can happen for that deal to potentially be lopsided in their favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, NewarkDevil5 said: For a guy who has never played an NHL game before? Yeah that's a bridge too far for me. NHL experience, even on bad teams, has a value. We had Adam Larsson and at the point before he'd played an NHL game many of us would have valued him in much the same way as Byram is valued, but all of us look back on trading him for Hall as a steal. He didn't develop into quite what we thought he would and that might have been partially due to coaching as well as some other holes in his talent arsenal that weren't focused upon at draft time but right now this team has not shown that it can coach to develop defensemen. I would roll the dice that Byram turns out to be a better player than Wood, Zacha, etc. Now would I want to throw in one of our young guys that I’m actually still hopeful hasn’t reached their full potential like one of the Jesper’s? Not really. Throwing in a Palms or Coleman would be getting a bit rich too. But Wood, Zacha, Severson...I think we’ve seen enough of those guys at this point to know what they are. And to me it’s would be worth it for a chance at a potential top 4 (maybe even top 2 someday) dman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Byram is 100% worth taking the risk. If he got him, he would easily be the cornerstone of our defense within 2 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, MB3 said: There are lottery ticket prospects, and then there's a guy that every scout says "holy sh!t -- he is going to be the backbone of an NHL defense in three years." I feel like I remember those kinds of predictions for Adam Larsson as well. I'm not saying we'll get an established star defenseman for half a year of Hall, but I am saying that half a year of Hall plus the edge of a easier re-signing that being able to offer an extra year provides is worth at least a blue chip prospect who has never played an NHL game if not that plus filler. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 minute ago, MB3 said: We got 4 years of a 24 year old Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. If you think you're getting more than that for 1/2 of a year for a 28 year old Taylor Hall, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I would be SHOCKED if a Taylor Hall rental returned Bowen Byram. We got 4 years of Taylor Hall for an Adam Larsson who had played 5 full seasons in the NHL. Once again there's a difference between a prospect and a player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger27 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 hour ago, NewarkDevil5 said: I feel like I remember those kinds of predictions for Adam Larsson as well. I'm not saying we'll get an established star defenseman for half a year of Hall, but I am saying that half a year of Hall plus the edge of a easier re-signing that being able to offer an extra year provides is worth at least a blue chip prospect who has never played an NHL game if not that plus filler. If we didnt win the lottery, Byram was player I wanted badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 2 hours ago, MB3 said: We got 4 years of a 24 year old Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. If you think you're getting more than that for 1/2 of a year for a 28 year old Taylor Hall, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I would be SHOCKED if a Taylor Hall rental returned Bowen Byram. Taylor Hall rental isn't going to return Bowen Byram, but Taylor Hall 8 years might. Let's not forget that Hall doesn't have any playoff experience outside of one series with us two years ago, so he doesn't have a lot of miles on him. He may be 28, but he's a relatively young 28. He could fairly easily have 8 solid years left in him, especially if he's in an environment where he's surrounded by more talent, and isn't relied on to be the face of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Taylor Hall rental isn't going to return Bowen Byram, but Taylor Hall 8 years might. Let's not forget that Hall doesn't have any playoff experience outside of one series with us two years ago, so he doesn't have a lot of miles on him. He may be 28, but he's a relatively young 28. He could fairly easily have 8 solid years left in him, especially if he's in an environment where he's surrounded by more talent, and isn't relied on to be the face of the team. What makes you say he’s a “relatively young 28” after he missed nearly a full season with an injury? If anything he’s trending the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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