Taylor Hall to AZ, 1st Rnd pick, 3rd Rnd Conditonal Pick, Bahl and 2 Prospects.Dvs Retain 50% salary

[Neb00rs]

The Avs are in a really good position to get Hall because they can offer the Devils something that many other teams cannot: a chance that Hall re-signs with them, resulting in the Devils receiving the conditional assets involved in the trade. Hall seems destined to make it to UFA, and so Shero trading him to a top team with a bright future would be his most appealing option. I think Hall gets to UFA no matter what and I don't know if Colorado is on his radar, but I think there's at least a better chance that if he goes there he ends up liking the situation and sticking around as opposed to say...Arizona.

The only way a second tier team, like Arizona, could end up with Hall is by upping the assets on the unconditional side of the deal - something I'm not sure is worth it for a rental and Arizona would really have to believe their time is now for it to happen.

Unfortunately, the Devils are not going to make off like bandits with this trade - Hall is just not going to agree to sign long-term now with any team not named the Toronto Maple Leafs which makes his ability to bring back returns different than say, Mark Stone's. And such has almost certainly backed off some teams from the market but I also don't think the Devils will do so poorly. Taylor Hall is still a dynamic player who changes the way the other team has to play on the ice - even a rental of #9 is going to drive competition for his services. And if Shero can't get the right deal now, he should absolutely hold onto Hall until closer to the deadline when more teams will be financially capable of taking on the part of his salary the Devils don't retain.

[SterioDesign]

i mentioned this before but we need to stop using the whole "MVP season" as if it means Hall was like the best player in the league or something cause we're setting ourselves up for a big disappointment. The  Hart is not like a Rocket, Vezina, Selke or Norris etc You're just the guy who's the most valuable to YOUR team.

Not to take away what he did but Hall won the MVP cause he was on a sh!t team, there was context. Many players were better than him that season but context didn't go their way.

Hell guys like Marchand who's getting paid like 6m went over 100 points after Hall so people around the league doesnt see him the same way NJ fans do i think. It's scary to think what he could do on a really good team though, so obviously there's indications of greatness there

[mfitz804]

11 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Not to take away what he did but Hall won the MVP cause he was on a sh!t team, there was context. Many players were better than him that season but context didn't go their way.

This is 100% true. Giroux, McDavid, Kucherove, Maklin and MacKinnon all outscored him. But they all had more help. Or some help lol. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

10 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Byram or fvck off. Which should be Ray’s only response to any offer Byram isn’t included in.

I'd like that too, but I definitely do not want to see Hall walk at the end of the season for zilch.  I'm fully prepared for a return that won't thrill me initially (and will have others saying "The Devils couldn't get more than that for Hall?!"), but at least there will BE a return.  Sometimes you can hardball yourself into getting even less (or as some GMs have found out, nothing at all). 

I understand neb00rs' point about waiting and hoping more potential partners might drive up his price, but there's always that threat of injury with Hall (which neb00rs himself has acknowledged).  It also just feels more and more like it's time to move on...nothing against Taylor, and I do think he's still trying and not half-assing it while in a bit of limbo.  And it's not like he's knocking the organization or being a malcontent.

 

3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

i mentioned this before but we need to stop using the whole "MVP season" as if it means Hall was like the best player in the league or something cause we're setting ourselves up for a big disappointment. The  Hart is not like a Rocket, Vezina, Selke or Norris etc You're just the guy who's the most valuable to YOUR team.

Not to take away what he did but Hall won the MVP cause he was on a sh!t team, there was context. Many players were better than him that season but context didn't go their way.

Hell guys like Marchand who's getting paid like 6m went over 100 points after Hall so people around the league doesnt see him the same way NJ fans do i think. It's scary to think what he could do on a really good team though, so obviously there's indications of greatness there

We know what a MVP is...I don't really see anyone here equating "MVP" with "best player in the NHL".  What Hall did that year (given his supporting cast) was special, whether he won that award or not...one of the most entertaining seasons that I've ever seen a Devil have.  Very similar to Elias' 2003-04 season in some respects, in that Patrik was also almost stubbornly productive that year...he put up 81 points in 82 GP that season.  Second among forwards in points was Gomez, with 70.  A very distant third was Friesen...with 37.   

Really was an amazing season for Hall...in 39 games from 1/2/18 through 4/3/18, he was held without a point just three times (includes that crazy 26-game point streak) and put up 27 goals and 30 assists in those games.  I actually somehow forgot just how productive (and occasionally electrifying) he really was that year...it really felt like it had all come together for him, and that even if he never matched that season, that others within that realm were going to happen here...possibly for years to come.  Makes it that much sadder to see it end this way. 

 

[SterioDesign]

Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'd like that too, but I definitely do not want to see Hall walk at the end of the season for zilch.  I'm fully prepared for a return that won't thrill me initially (and will have others saying "The Devils couldn't get more than that for Hall?!"), but at least there will BE a return.  Sometimes you can hardball yourself into getting even less (or as some GMs have found out, nothing at all). 

I understand neb00rs' point about waiting and hoping more potential partners might drive up his price, but there's always that threat of injury with Hall (which neb00rs himself has acknowledged).  It also just feels more and more like it's time to move on...nothing against Taylor, and I do think he's still trying and not half-assing it while in a bit of limbo.  And it's not like he's knocking the organization or being a malcontent.

 

We know what a MVP is...I don't really see anyone here equating "MVP" with "best player in the NHL".  What Hall did that year (given his supporting cast) was special, whether he won that award or not...one of the most entertaining seasons that I've ever seen a Devil have.  Very similar to Elias' 2003-04 season in some respects, in that Patrik was also almost stubbornly productive that year...he put up 81 points in 82 GP that season.  Second among forwards in points was Gomez, with 70.  A very distant third was Friesen...with 37.   

Really was an amazing season for Hall...in 39 games from 1/2/18 through 4/3/18, he was held without a point just three times (includes that crazy 26-game point streak) and put up 27 goals and 30 assists in those games.  I actually somehow forgot just how productive (and occasionally electrifying) he really was that year...it really felt like it had all come together for him, and that even if he never matched that season, that others within that realm were going to happen here...possibly for years to come.  Makes it that much sadder to see it end this way. 

 

What i mean is ive seen fans saying that we should get a good return even if he's not great this year causee he's still 2 years removed from a MVP season or wtv. That's not really how that works. He had one really good season and that's what it was

[devlman]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

To piggyback on MB3's post...if you look at the balance of Taylor's last 6 seasons, they're really not that great, all things considered.  For one, he's missed a total of 94 games.  For another, take out the MVP season (it really has to be considered an outlier now, or at least I'm sure that's how some GMs are looking at this), and he's averaged about 23 G and 43 A per 82 GP (he's only reached that 82 GP number once in his career).  Not chump change, but it goes back to what I've said about him...in most of his recent seasons, the promise of what Taylor Hall can be usually isn't what Taylor Hall actually is. 

Not trying to sh!t on him...like I've said, I was definitely willing to take a chance on re-signing him.  But there's enough there to raise doubt as to how much you want to give up to bring him in, especially if a team like the Avalanche views him strictly as a rental and may not be interested in signing him to big money. 

Basically, I think that we value him and think a little more of him at this point than the rest of the league does, especially since we all got to witness the magic of that very special MVP season firsthand.  Yeah, you probably get a bottom-half first-rounder and a couple of decent to meh prospects if you deal him.  But not an exciting near can't-miss prospect who will immediately step into the lineup and having us all saying "Taylor who?" within a few weeks.

this is true BUT Hall can be the player that pushes Colorado over the edge and brings them a Stanley Cup. So to that end, there has to be an overpayment required. Shero shouldn’t be asking for fair market value. He should be asking teams ‘How much are you willing to overpay?’

[SterioDesign]

6 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

This is 100% true. Giroux, McDavid, Kucherove, Maklin and MacKinnon all outscored him. But they all had more help. Or some help lol. 

For sure but all i mean is that i don't think the actual MVP title is weighting much in any trade negotiations. The fact he had an amazing season would be tho

[SterioDesign]

4 minutes ago, devlman said:

this is true BUT Hall can be the player that pushes Colorado over the edge and brings them a Stanley Cup. So to that end, there has to be an overpayment required. Shero shouldn’t be asking for fair market value. He should be asking teams ‘How much are you willing to overpay?’

Not sure Shero has that much leverage at this point though. Cause they know damn well he cannot re-sign him. They know he'd likely trade him somewhere Hall would re-sign and get a better return and not many teams can. And they know Shero has more to lose than they do... losing Hall for nothing would be catastrophic

Edited December 10, 2019 by SterioDesign

[NJDfan1711]

1 minute ago, devlman said:

this is true BUT Hall can be the player that pushes Colorado over the edge and brings them a Stanley Cup. So to that end, there has to be an overpayment required. Shero shouldn’t be asking for fair market value. He should be asking teams ‘How much are you willing to overpay?’

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think overpaying means different things to different people.  Everyone's goal is to win a Cup, so yeah, you'd think they'd do anything to get there, including overpaying, but at the same time it's usually only desperate teams that overpay, and Colorado seems to be positioned fairly well, i.e. not desperate at all.  Who's to say they don't roll the dice on the rest of their season without him, and just enter the market after the season and see if he's interested in going there, this way they don't have to give up any other pieces?  To me, holding onto some of my assets, especially young and developing ones, is worth much more than the ability to give Mr. Hall an 8th year on his contract.

[Daniel]

18 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

To piggyback on MB3's post...if you look at the balance of Taylor's last 6 seasons, they're really not that great, all things considered.  For one, he's missed a total of 94 games.  For another, take out the MVP season (it really has to be considered an outlier now, or at least I'm sure that's how some GMs are looking at this), and he's averaged about 23 G and 43 A per 82 GP (he's only reached that 82 GP number once in his career).  Not chump change, but it goes back to what I've said about him...in most of his recent seasons, the promise of what Taylor Hall can be usually isn't what Taylor Hall actually is. 

Not trying to sh!t on him...like I've said, I was definitely willing to take a chance on re-signing him.  But there's enough there to raise doubt as to how much you want to give up to bring him in, especially if a team like the Avalanche views him strictly as a rental and may not be interested in signing him to big money. 

Basically, I think that we value him and think a little more of him at this point than the rest of the league does, especially since we all got to witness the magic of that very special MVP season firsthand.  Yeah, you probably get a bottom-half first-rounder and a couple of decent to meh prospects if you deal him.  But not an exciting near can't-miss prospect who will immediately step into the lineup and having us all saying "Taylor who?" within a few weeks.

But the fact is, he DID win the Hart trophy only two years ago and is playing at almost a point per game pace on a team that is an absolute disaster.   (And was above a point per game last year).  The only player who  is arguably better who was recently traded under similar circumstances was Erik Karlsson - whose health was more questionable and who the Sens would not trade to the Eastern Conference. 

Shero needs to get an A asset out of this.  If not, he's running out of opportunities to pull a rabbit out of a hat.  When all of his trades are done -- and he seems intent on making them happen sooner rather than later -- we will be challenging Detroit for last overall.  Unless the owners literally don't care (which isn't beyond the realm of possibility), they have to be losing patience if this is where the team is sitting five years after making him the GM and with all the luck he's had along the way.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, devlman said:

this is true BUT Hall can be the player that pushes Colorado over the edge and brings them a Stanley Cup. So to that end, there has to be an overpayment required. Shero shouldn’t be asking for fair market value. He should be asking teams ‘How much are you willing to overpay?’

"this is true" (in reference to the red flags that I posted earlier) is part of the problem...Hall isn't a sure thing, and he's having a down year (6 goals) and missed a sh!tload of games last season.  Hall could just at easily be snakebit the rest of the season (Elias knew all about that in 2006-07 and 2007-08) or wind up getting hurt.  Problem is that he's a bit of a wild card (and a UFA to boot)...enough so that I don't think there's gonna be an overpayment...I would love that to happen, just don't think that it will.

 

8 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

What i mean is ive seen fans saying that we should get a good return even if he's not great this year causee he's still 2 years removed from a MVP season or wtv. That's not really how that works. He had one really good season and that's what it was

His 2011-12 through 2013-14 seasons were quite productive (183 points in 181 GP, though he did miss 31 games), but like I mentioned previously and like you allude to in this post, the MVP season is really one big outlier season in the last 6 (including this one).  It's enough to make GMs ask "Which Hall am I getting?  The beast who shot 14% in 2017-18, or the one who never cracked 10% in any of his other recent years, and who missed 29 games one season and 49 in another?" 

  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

But the fact is, he DID win the Hart trophy only two years ago and is playing at almost a point per game pace on a team that is an absolute disaster.   (And was above a point per game last year).  The only player who  is arguably better who was recently traded under similar circumstances was Erik Karlsson - whose health was more questionable and who the Sens would not trade to the Eastern Conference. 

Shero needs to get an A asset out of this.  If not, he's running out of opportunities to pull a rabbit out of a hat.  When all of his trades are done -- and he seems intent on making them happen sooner rather than later -- we will be challenging Detroit for last overall.  Unless the owners literally don't care (which isn't beyond the realm of possibility), they have to be losing patience if this is where the team is sitting five years after making him the GM and with all the luck he's had along the way.

Bolded takes a hit in that he missed well over half the season last year.  Don't you think that would affect his value?

If Shero simply CAN'T get an A asset out of this...what would you rather he do?  Not move Hall at all?  Like I've said, I'm expecting some disappointment in the return, but I'll be a hell of a lot more disappointed if Shero overplays his hand and holds out for something that no one is willing to offer...and we watch Hall leave.  Suffice it to say if that happened, suddenly you'll be wishing that Shero had gotten SOMETHING for Hall (even if it's ultimately "just" a first-rounder, a couple of decent prospects, and a conditional pick).  With Lou, at least his teams were consistently making the playoffs (until the bottom finally fell out)...this team isn't.  So no rolling the dice here.    

Shero's luck has not all been good.  Getting two first-overall picks, yes.  I know you don't want to give him credit for this, but he made a hell of a deal for Hall.  Also a fine deal for Palms. 

But as has been discussed, not much luck with trades lately, and I consider him unlucky in that regard because I don't think he made any deals that looked rotten from the start (not even PK)...if you want to see some of that type of move, just watch the Mets' BVW in action.  Shero was also unlucky in that Schneider went from being a .920+ puckstopper to a guy who can't play anymore, and isn't really old...and has a contract that can't be moved.  I think just how much Schneider's insanely fast decline has hurt the Devils is often understated. 

[Daniel]

17 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Bolded takes a hit in that he missed well over half the season last year.  Don't you think that would affect his value?

If Shero simply CAN'T get an A asset out of this...what would you rather he do?  Not move Hall at all?  Like I've said, I'm expecting some disappointment in the return, but I'll be a hell of a lot more disappointed if Shero overplays his hand and holds out for something that no one is willing to offer...and we watch Hall leave.  Suffice it to say if that happened, suddenly you'll be wishing that Shero had gotten SOMETHING for Hall (even if it's ultimately "just" a first-rounder, a couple of decent prospects, and a conditional pick).  With Lou, at least his teams were consistently making the playoffs (until the bottom finally fell out)...this team isn't.  So no rolling the dice here.    

Shero's luck has not all been good.  Getting two first-overall picks, yes.  I know you don't want to give him credit for this, but he made a hell of a deal for Hall.  Also a fine deal for Palms. 

But as has been discussed, not much luck with trades lately, and I consider him unlucky in that regard because I don't think he made any deals that looked rotten from the start (not even PK)...if you want to see some of that type of move, just watch the Mets' BVW in action.  Shero was also unlucky in that Schneider went from being a .920+ puckstopper to a guy who can't play anymore, and isn't really old...and has a contract that can't be moved.  I think just how much Schneider's insanely fast decline has hurt the Devils is often understated. 

Taylor Hall is our best player and that trade to get him will probably get Shero more time than he deserves.  If it’s come to the point that Shero has to trade him for magic beans, which is what the reported package from Colorado is, he’s failed. Period.  It’s his job to do better, no matter how much his ego has been inflated by the stupid sunglasses gif thing.

And if you think Shero has had poor luck, you would be the most forgiving person on the planet.   Two lottery wins in three years, possibly a third in four years.   Not hampered for cap space.  And was one GM who got to take advantage of Chiarelli.   Everyone laughed at the Oilers for the mess they had.  Guess what, Shero is in the same spot as they were.
 

So far as the goaltending, do what the Isles did and make it work with Greis, Lehner and Varlamov.  Oh, we had Schneider and Blackwood.  Tough sh!t.  Make it work.  Lou had a lot less with the Islanders.  But even so, it’s not my fault that Ray can’t bring on good coaches, who tend to actually help goalies succeed.

 

[devlman]

Colorado wins the cup this season with Hall. That’s the difference, plain and simple. If someone said to me the Devils will win the Stanley Cup this year if we part with Smith and a first then obviously we all do that in a second. Ray has to get Colorado thinking along these lines. If Ottawa could extract A high level talent like Branstrom then that has to be our benchmark.

Edited December 10, 2019 by devlman

[HellOnICE]

1 minute ago, devlman said:

Colorado wins the cup this season with Hall. That’s the difference, plain and simple. If someone said to me the Devils will win the Stanley Cup this year if we part with Smith and a first then obviously we all do that in a second. 

No guarantees on anything. Hall could go to the Avs, they run into Hellebuck or Binnington and voila - bounced in 5. We've seen crazier sh!t happen.

[devlman]

2 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

No guarantees on anything. Hall could go to the Avs, they run into Hellebuck or Binnington and voila - bounced in 5. We've seen crazier sh!t happen.

Of course but Ray has to sell the idea of the insta-cup happening w a Hall acquisition.

[HellOnICE]

I don't think Ray's job is to sell the Avs on that. The Avs know who Hall is, as a player and person, and their job internally is to decide what the maximum package they can do is. It's not like Ray is selling a car 😛 If anything, Ray needs to sell that other offers are out there, and what the market is.

[MadDog2020]

I don’t care if Ray needs to use a gun- Byram or fvck off.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Taylor Hall is our best player and that trade to get him will probably get Shero more time than he deserves.  If it’s come to the point that Shero has to trade him for magic beans, which is what the reported package from Colorado is, he’s failed. Period.  It’s his job to do better, no matter how much his ego has been inflated by the stupid sunglasses gif thing.

And if you think Shero has had poor luck, you would be the most forgiving person on the planet.   Two lottery wins in three years, possibly a third in four years.   Not hampered for cap space.  And was one GM who got to take advantage of Chiarelli.   Everyone laughed at the Oilers for the mess they had.  Guess what, Shero is in the same spot as they were.
 

So far as the goaltending, do what the Isles did and make it work with Greis, Lehner and Varlamov.  Oh, we had Schneider and Blackwood.  Tough sh!t.  Make it work.  Lou had a lot less with the Islanders.  But even so, it’s not my fault that Ray can’t bring on good coaches, who tend to actually help goalies succeed.

 

Jesus dude, I know you've kinda jumped the shark and you're wading into dopey-sounding territory again, but don't try to twist my words around.

You're making it sound like I said that Shero's luck has ALL been poor.  fvcking READ...I pointed out that he was indeed lucky in getting two #1 OAs.  You don't think he's been unlucky with some of his trades?  Did you think the MoJo deal would turn out the way that it did?  How about this...point out the trade that Shero made that had you saying "What the hell were you thinking on THAT one RAY?!" 

How about Hall getting hurt at the worst possible time...heading into a walk year?  Imagine if he had a full season last year that was at least in the city limits of what he'd done in 2017-18?  Think then Ray might have been able to get more?  But as it stands, not only does Hall miss almost FIFTY games last season, he's not finding the net this year, and hasn't really looked as good as his point total suggests.  Not like his value is at an all-time high at the moment.  You seem to think Shero should just be able to make a killer deal happen no matter what.  There's enough negatives that come with Hall (I've detailed them) that you should be able to understand that Ray might not be able to pull off a miracle here.  Doesn't mean he won't try of course, but I don't know how you can put it 100% on Shero if it's not there. 

Did the Isles have a $6 million goalie on their payroll?  That complicates things.  You also had Schneider get off to a terrific start in 2017-18, and finish up 2018-19 strong...so I can't blame Shero for hoping that a fully-healthy-from-the-start Cory might be able to approach .920 territory again this season.  That didn't happen.  Yes, now Ray will have to come up with a plan that doesn't include any bouncebacks from Schneider, because there's no circumstances where Shero should give Cory another shot.

I will at least give Shero until the start of next season to try to come up with a solution (or one with upside) to the goaltending issue.  Obviously it's too early to render a verdict on Blackwood.  Domingue is a warm body who's passing through. 

I'll also give Ray one more shot at putting together a coaching staff. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I don’t care if Ray needs to use a gun- Byram or fvck off.

And when Colorado likely refuses...what's Plan B?  Obviously Shero will shop Hall around, but if the Avs' offer is the best one on the table and Byram isn't a part of it...does Ray have much choice here?   

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Jesus dude, I know you've kinda jumped the shark and you're wading into dopey-sounding territory again, but don't try to twist my words around.

You're making it sound like I said that Shero's luck has ALL been poor.  fvcking READ...I pointed out that he was indeed lucky in getting two #1 OAs.  You don't think he's been unlucky with some of his trades?  Did you think the MoJo deal would turn out the way that it did?  How about this...point out the trade that Shero made that had you saying "What the hell were you thinking on THAT one RAY?!" 

How about Hall getting hurt at the worst possible time...heading into a walk year?  Imagine if he had a full season last year that was at least in the city limits of what he'd done in 2017-18?  Think then Ray might have been able to get more?  But as it stands, not only does Hall miss almost FIFTY games last season, he's not finding the net this year, and hasn't really looked as good as his point total suggests.  Not like his value is at an all-time high at the moment.  You seem to think Shero should just be able to make a killer deal happen no matter what.  There's enough negatives that come with Hall (I've detailed them) that you should be able to understand that Ray might not be able to pull off a miracle here.  Doesn't mean he won't try of course, but I don't know how you can put it 100% on Shero if it's not there. 

Did the Isles have a $6 million goalie on their payroll?  That complicates things.  You also had Schneider get off to a terrific start in 2017-18, and finish up 2018-19 strong...so I can't blame Shero for hoping that a fully-healthy-from-the-start Cory might be able to approach .920 territory again this season.  That didn't happen.  Yes, now Ray will have to come up with a plan that doesn't include any bouncebacks from Schneider, because there's no circumstances where Shero should give Cory another shot.

I will at least give Shero until the start of next season to try to come up with a solution (or one with upside) to the goaltending issue.  Obviously it's too early to render a verdict on Blackwood.  Domingue is a warm body who's passing through. 

I'll also give Ray one more shot at putting together a coaching staff. 

Hall:  the goal was for him to sign an extension.  Remember "not on your fvcking life" when asked if he might trade him last year when the injury situation wasn't clear?  Two things happened, either the horrendous start scared Hall out of signing an extension or they were lowballing him on years like Lavoie has reported (and Lebrun hinted at).  Either scenario is of Shero's making.  The way out of it is to bring back at least one piece that will help the team get better starting next year at the latest.

Goaltending:  a bit off topic, but it has been as bad as it is because because of a combination of the defensman and who the coaches were.  That is largely on Shero. 

We're in sort of agreement though that Shero has one more offseason to demonstrate that he can build a hockey that sustainably wins.  If by the middle of December of next year, the Devils are in the same spot in the standings, he has to be fired.  Draft picks and Martin Kaut will not affect that outcome one way or the other.  An A asset might. 

[SterioDesign]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Hall:  the goal was for him to sign an extension.  Remember "not on your fvcking life" when asked if he might trade him last year when the injury situation wasn't clear?  Two things happened, either the horrendous start scared Hall out of signing an extension or they were lowballing him on years like Lavoie has reported (and Lebrun hinted at).  Either scenario is of Shero's making.  The way out of it is to bring back at least one piece that will help the team get better starting next year at the latest.

Goaltending:  a bit off topic, but it has been as bad as it is because because of a combination of the defensman and who the coaches were.  That is largely on Shero. 

We're in sort of agreement though that Shero has one more offseason to demonstrate that he can build a hockey that sustainably wins.  If by the middle of December of next year, the Devils are in the same spot in the standings, he has to be fired.  Draft picks and Martin Kaut will not affect that outcome one way or the other.  An A asset might. 

Come on, your comments on the goaltending are absolutely blinded by your obsession to blame Shero. fvcking ridiculous, the goalies has been straight up bad most of the time and it's on them.

Schneider has been sh!t for a long time now, he even sucks in the AHL now. He cannot make basic saves at time and both goalies had terrible rebound control. Many goals scored were after the goalies couldnt hold on to the puck. We all saw it, to try to pretend that it's all on the coaches and Shero is laughable

Sure the bad D is not helping but so many goals we're so clearly and obviously just bad goaltending. I can't believe you're that blind

Edited December 10, 2019 by SterioDesign

[Daniel]

18 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Come on, your comments on the goaltending are absolutely blinded by your obsession to blame Shero. fvcking ridiculous, the goalies has been straight up bad most of the time and it's on them.

Schneider has been sh!t for a long time now, he even sucks in the AHL now. He cannot make basic saves at time and both goalies had terrible rebound control. Many goals scored were after the goalies couldnt hold on to the puck. We all saw it, to try to pretend that it's all on the coaches and Shero is laughable

Sure the bad D is not helping but so many goals we're so clearly and obviously just bad goaltending. I can't believe you're that blind

For the record, this is a Taylor Hall thread, and I've kept it there except to note that Shero likely has to do very well in a trade to keep his job in the long run and that we're at this point because of him. 

On the goaltending issue:  Schneider ended last season strong when he had nothing to really play for and played well at the Worlds.  He has ability to at least put up average numbers, yet the players in front of him suck and/or have been poorly coached. This has affected pretty much every goalie for the last three years in the same way.

But even if I'm wrong on that, you know what Mr. Sunglasses should have done, recognize that Schneider was washed up, send him down to Bingo like you did anyway or buy him out or try to trade him, and sign Semyon Varlomov who currently has a .926 save percentage and forego signing Wayne Simmonds.  Hell, you could have put Schneider on waivers earlier when people thought he might have something in the tank and someone might have claimed him. Oh, I forgot the spreadsheet people will come out and tell me Islanders goalies just happen to have great "luck" or something.  And we can't question the divine wisdom of the great and completely accomplished Rejean Shero.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Daniel

[SterioDesign]

9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

For the record, this is a Taylor Hall thread, and I've kept it there except to note that Shero likely has to do very well in a trade to keep his job in the long run and that we're at this point because of him. 

On the goaltending issue:  Schneider ended last season strong when he had nothing to really play for and played well at the Worlds.  He has ability to at least put up average numbers, yet the players in front of him suck and/or have been poorly coached. This has affected pretty much every goalie for the last three years in the same way.

But even if I'm wrong on that, you know what Mr. Sunglasses should have done, recognize that Schneider was washed up, send him down to Bingo like you did anyway or buy him out or try to trade him, and sign Semyon Varlomov who currently has a .926 save percentage and forego signing Wayne Simmonds.  Hell, you could have put Schneider on waivers earlier when people thought he might have something in the tank and someone might have claimed him. Oh, I forgot the spreadsheet people will come out and tell me Islanders goalies just happen to have great "luck" or something.  And we can't question the divine wisdom of the great and completely accomplished Rejean Shero.

amazing lol

First you say Schneider ended the season strong and all. and that its all on the coaches... then you go the other direction saying we shouldnt have gave schneider a chance to prove himself after a strong showing late in the season... that the owners would have been fine paying off, after already spending on Subban. Then assuming Varlamorv would have signed with us for sure. But if we WOULD have signed Varlamorv... the coaches would have ruined him too right? so whats the point? You're just going in circles hating man lol

[Daniel]

18 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

amazing lol

First you say Schneider ended the season strong and all. and that its all on the coaches... then you go the other direction saying we shouldnt have gave schneider a chance to prove himself after a strong showing late in the season... that the owners would have been fine paying off, after already spending on Subban. Then assuming Varlamorv would have signed with us for sure. But if we WOULD have signed Varlamorv... the coaches would have ruined him too right? so whats the point? You're just going in circles hating man lol

You understand the concept of showing alternative scenarios to make a point?  To spell it out.   I believe Schneider is not completely washed up and on a properly coached team, he should put up at least average numbers.  If that proposition is wrong, it is Shero's job to recognize that, and there happens to have been a goalie who was a free agent who is playing very well.  Since according to you the goaltending has nothing to do with the rest of the team and not much to do with John Hynes both of things that come under Ray Shero's purview, that's something that the great Rejean should have figured out. 

An army of the best shrinks is needed to diagnose a syndrome where someone can hate a GM who brought home 3 Stanley Cups, 5 Stanley Cup appearances, 13 straight playoff appearances, etc. etc. yet can give every single excuse in the book for a GM who in his fifth year on the job has the team sitting in second to last place and will only be getting worse.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Daniel